Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Why Bush Is Popular

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 06:36 PM
Original message
Why Bush Is Popular
Yes, I believe the polls. I believe that Bush is either ahead by a few points or is tied with Kerry. The question that we're all asking is whether the polls are accurate. I believe that they are. I believe that despite all of the damaging news that has come out against Bush as of late, he still remains incredibly popular with a large segment of the American people. Why? Here's the answer:

By and large, the American culture has become narcissistic. No, not all Americans, but I'd have to say that a majority of Americans don't care about anything unless it affects them personally.

Yes, Bush's policies have been disastrous, but they've also been contained within relatively small portions of the American public. If you're an ITer or work in mfg, you probably hate Bush. If you're a 9/11 family member, you probably hate Bush. If you have a relative in Iraq, you probably hate Bush. If you're Gay, you probably hate Bush. If you're unemployed/underemployed, you probably hate Bush.

Unfortunately, Bush haters don't comprise a clear majority of the public. IOW, not enough Americans are suffering in order for Bush's popularity to sink completely. Most of us here cannot understand this because most of us EMPATHIZE with people who are hurting. Yet, a huge number of the American people just plain do not care that our service men and women are dying for nothing. They don't care about anything but themselves.

As long as most Americans can buy whatever consumer good they want, regardless of whether they can afford it or not, then Bush will have a strong reservoir of support.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because the Democrats are idiots
constantly critisising Kerry
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think you...


...hit it right on the nose.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. tough to argue with that...
you'd think we could rally for the common cause instead of bickering all the time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think you're right.
However, I think the constantly fawning media coverage, and the very real fear some people have about being attacked again also play a role in his popularity.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. well, the media has a LOT to do with that analysis
of course you can't empathize with the people affected adversely by shrub's policies because the media NEVER SHOW THEM and they NEVER EVEN IMPLY that shrub might be to blame.

the american people are not incapable of empathy. but empathy requires at least a passing introduction to the object of that empathy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. America has been reduced to a sound bite
And one that will ruin it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Because
Americans like soundbites, the media is biased, the Democrats don't give a clear alternative, americans are social conservatives and many have racist opinions and don't even know they are racist. The GOP uses these to their advantage. Most americans are anti immigrant, and believe all the rah rah terror terror bullshit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks Yavin
Wish you had posted this sooner. I would have far less bumps and bruises from banging my head against the wall.

I think you're right. Unless more Americans begin to 'feel the pain' up close and personal bush will remain popular.

Although my family and I aren't hurting at the moment I have been there and haven't forgotten what it's like to have serious money problems. I do empathize with those who can't find a job or are working 2 jobs just to make ends meet.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. because he's a celebrity . . . and Americans just LOVE celebrities . . .
especially those who get on tv and promise to keep them safe from all the boogymen . . . yeah, that's the ticket! . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. I know what your saying. Ohio is hurting badly but other states aren't.
If this is our (the nation's) mentality, then the nation gets what it deserves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. No wait
that doesn't make sense. What you are saying is that *'s policies are working for the vast majority of Americans. I don't beleive that. But assume that it is true. Then why should they vote for *? I mean, nothing, absolutely nothing, no policy whatsoever, is going to work for everybody. NOt the most progressive policy in the world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. Nope. That's Not What I'm Saying
Bush's policies have not hurt a vast majority of the people. Because of the vast supply of cheap debt, most Americans can maintain the same lifestyle that they had under Clinton. For instance, we have less jobs, but our cars are still bigger than ever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #22
47. And what I am saying
is that, in that case, what reason can we put forward for them to vote for the Democratic nominee? At least that they will buy. With no draft, most families are not touched by the Iraq war. The economy IS improving right now, at least for most people. Cheap debt is good on a personal basis. Most people will not care that much about the left-behind. I'm not saying *'s policies are right, but how do you convince the comfortably well-off to vote for Kerry?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ardee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. what can people think
Sure we live in the lap of luxury here in America, and even the poor here aitn so poor compared to many, many other places. But there is,imo, only one reason why Bush remains popular with approx. 50% or so of Americans:

1.(and only) they are given no opportunity to hear opposing opinions. Read: Democratic complicity with Bush for three years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. lowest common demominator factor
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. I've found that
freepers on a political board I visit really appear self-centered and judgemental. A fellow had some serious health issues, and the freepers basically said, "You don't have money, so you die." They make jokes over war and dying. I hope that they post what they do because in some warped way they feel they are funny; I feel it would be really sad if they really were as self-centered as they appear from their posts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
15. Absolutely! A good example is Carter...
Why do people think that he was a "bad" president? Because they had to wait in line for gas for their freaking gas guzzlers! And they were humiliated by those ragheads who took Americans hostage and gave us the finger. And Carter couldn't whup 'em (thought they had help from George H. W. Bush.) Now, Bush whups the sand niggers good and we got gas aplenty. It may be at record high prices, but George has a friend in Saudi Aray-bee-a whose gonna open up the taps (at least until after the election.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
16. Narcissists For Bush!
Bush is a classic narcissist, and he is the perfect leader for a culture that has become more and more selfish and narcissistic.

The people who support Bush are happy to see a fellow traveller in office. It will not be until their little worlds begin to fall apart that they turn on him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
17. why is bush popular
Edited on Tue Apr-20-04 07:23 PM by Marianne
assuming he is

because we have a country full of stupid, uneducated people who are , as they say, Christians.

It is a cult at this point and that cult supports the killing of the Muslims and supports the notion that the biblical, prophecy of the Armageddon will soon be upon us and they are joyful over the thousands upon thousands of deaths that have occured so far in this shit poor invasion.

They really do believe that the rapture will occur and that it is very near because of the situation in the ME and especially in Israel


Why are they so joyful? Because it means they, and I mean THEY are going to somehow benefit in being assured of a life after death if they kill other people They believe they will be flown up into the air to join with the second coming of JEsus.

These barbaric human beings cannot stand the notion that after they die, they could be an absolute nothing so a elaborate system of fantasy has been built up to assure the kool aid drinking flock that they will have life everlasting if only they would perform certain rituals and kill certain people not like them.





They react viscerally to anything

The fullness and joyfulness of the soul has been lost

There is no reflection--all is dedication to accquisition and gain and powerful images of themselves as "boss" or CEO, where they will earn at the most 40 million dollars a year for selling us a product--err how about the latest in the drug industry?


There is only, it seems, dedication to knee jerk, testosterone driven revenge on people not like ourselves. NOt white but brown and with a different god belief.

No matter there is not evidence of any god that gave anyone any deed to any land.

We KNOW who to kill in order to get to heaven

We KNOW which child and which baby is the terrorist that is a threat to us.

We KNOW that our children are better than theirs

Right
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maveric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. DING DING DING DING DING! THE POST OF THE DAY!
Edited on Tue Apr-20-04 08:53 PM by maveric
Marianne, you hit the nail right on the head. People in the good old US of A are spoiled,arrogant willfully ignorant and brainwashed by religion. These people are very easily misled and are heavily influenced by the fear factor that the WH and the good puppy media are shoving down their throats. They are content to live in a black and white world where you are Xtian and "with us" or ---------(other religion), and "against us". These folk dont research and think for themselves they accept what their Xtian leaders tell them.
This is very sad statement for our once great nation.
I'm disgusted!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sorry. Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. FFS
and it would just be soooo much better if you lot could all tell the 'wilfully ignorant and brainwashed' the good news, huh?

Jeez, no wonder you lot all seem to think that a new president will solve all the world's problems ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. No
I don't think a new President will solve all the world's problems,but at least maybe it will stop the perpetual fucking trainwreck that the current idiot in charge is continually making worse.

It will probably take several good Presidents to completely clean up the mess Bu$h has caused.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sorry. Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. no
politicians don't solve your problems for you. Problems are solved by citizens getting off their ass and making change a necessity for whoever is in charge.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. Bush isn't popular. But he's more popular than Kerry
I wish you guys would figure that out.

This fight is Kerry's to lose, and so far he's losing it.

By the way, the media is a HUGE HUGE HUGE reason that Bush has any support WHATsoFUCKINGever.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. I disagree with you on one point, Marianne
I don't believe this country is mostly Christian Coalition types. Although about 75% of the country calls themselves Christian, I'd say no more than 20% are on the Christian Right. Most people don;t believe only Christians go to heaven; most people wouldn't even know what rapture is. The Majority of people I talk to hate Falwell and Robertson, even though I live in a rural part of New Mexico. I think the reason why Shrub remains popular is that people don't pay attention and basically see Shrub as having the better personality.
Sad but true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ardee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
50. Hyberbole never won fair election
My goodness ,just how many of these Xtians are out there, are they under your bed as well....:eyes:

We certainly do not, as you rant, have a "country full of stupid , uneducated people". That is the electorate you are defaming and alienating, not exactly a prescription for winning them over.

Bernard Weiner, of whom some of you may be aware, has a "friend" called "shallow throat", a supposed deep cover highly placed GOP figure with whom he converses from time to time. Here is his latest "conversation with him:

Shallow Throat to Dems: "Time to Go for the Jugular!"
By Bernard Weiner, The Crisis Papers (http://www.crisispapers.org)

April 19, 2004 -- SAN FRANCISCO (crisispapers.org) -- When I got the coded call from Shallow Throat, I was worried. The last few times we'd talked*, the highly-placed GOP mole in the Bush Administration was extremely frightened, fearing imminent discovery, so I thought something bad might have gone down.

We met in a half-deserted, dimly-lit tavern outside the Beltway. The wig and shades were different, but the anger was the same and it was directed at the usual target: timid liberals.

"I can't believe you guys!" he practically shouted. "Bush is screwing up big time in so many areas -- the 9/11 coverup, the Iraq War, Israel and the Palestinians, the Plame case, the environment, health care, education, the economy, tax rates, and on an on -- and your Dem friends simply watch in horror, with their mouths wide open, and don't react with any real passion.

"Bush&Co. are dazed, confused and floored, not knowing what the hell to do, and you let him get up! At times, you even seem to be helping him to his feet! Damn it, this isn't tiddleewinks. Bush&Co. are playing full-contact, crush-your-opponent politics, and too often you seem to be playing to win the good-sportsmanship prize.

"You want to get rid of Bush and his kind from the White House? Remember where the political jugular is located and go for it!"

Shallow Throat was red-faced and breathing hard after this tirade, and quickly chugged some beer.

"I couldn't agree more," I said. "But what brought this on? What happened that made you call me?"

ST gave me a look of disbelief. "You ask me that after what's happened since we last talked? Dick Clarke and Bob Woodward spill the whole can of beans all over the Bush Administration, Condi Rice lies and bobs and weaves her way through her testimony, nobody even tries to lay a glove on Ashcroft, the FBI and CIA are fingered to take the fall, Iraq is falling apart, Bush pitiably embarrasses himself and our country at his press conference -- and your candidate and the rest of the Democrats issue polite criticism.

"Even parts of the conglomerate-owned media machine are starting to mention and question Bush's scandals and disastrous policies. Why are you Democrats so timid? You should be wiping the floor with these guys, not pretending that all this is politics as usual.

-----for the rest of this substantial and pertinent "conversation" I urge you to follow the link and read, think and react...please.

*For three of these earlier "conversations" with Shallow Throat, go to: www.crisispapers.org/essays/one-chance.htm
www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/bush-defeat.htm www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/bring-it-on.htm


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. Good points, Yavin.
I would only add that a great number of Americans are not smart enough to connect the dots and realize that Bush IS affecting them negatively. Look at the increase in dairy prices and record gasoline prices. People think the low interest rates for financing in the real estate market were great, but I found (in my own house-hunting expedition last year) that most of the properties were VASTLY overpriced. $80,000 homes were selling for $150,000. Newer contructions (many built with cheap materials) were selling for $250,000 and up. Many of the homes I looked at were not in the best neighborhoods either.

Americans don't realize that tax cuts don't mean jack when we're paying more to heat and cool our homes than ever before. We're paying higher property taxes because our school districts are underfunded as a result of NCLB. Arts and Music programs are being cut from schools as well. Our grocery bills are higher. It's costing us more to get to and from work. Some workers aren't even getting the overtime pay they deserve as a result of this administration.

No one connects the dots. No one realizes that if we continue on this pathway, there won't be a middle-class. They won't see it until it's too late, and they are a member of the working poor, struggling to make ends meet and sacrificing their lives for the likes of Halliburton in order to provide for their families.

It's sickening and it's sad, but America is brainwashed and Bushwhacked. It's going to take years, maybe decades of hard work and struggle to deprogram the stupid sheep.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Demoiselle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. Dot connection is everything, Tatiana!
Your post is right on...There was a time when we had a real Fourth Estate (the press?!) that would help us all connect the dots...but now all we get is infotainment from a bunch of star wannabees whose first ambition is popularity, ie., ratings. Even though all of us at DU devour the news and parse it and think about it constantly,we are really a very small minority. I'll bet most of those polled in the past week or so have actually paid no attention at all to any real news. They might have a vague sense that things aren't going very well in Iraq, but they didn't watch the "Presidential" press conference, they can't be bothered to think about all the appalling stuff coming out of Woodward and Clarke et al, they don't watch the news, period, and the only political "info" they can't avoid are a those disgusting and ubiquitous Bush anti-Kerry ads. They don't know the ads are lies...and they aren't engaged enough to educate themselves. I wish we had some mechanism to accurately measure how much the vast majority of the American people actually know about what's going on...I'm convinced it's really very little. This makes me sound like an intellectual snob, and I'm sorry for that, but I'm afraid I'm right about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
46. True. A shame we even have to consider such notions as this.
It is a really valid point, though. I think those of us who are, or strive to be, somewhat politically savvy and more fully informed - are a minority. Some might say we're obsessed. But I know many people who don't put in the time to read and research, and sometimes it's for very understandable reasons like kids and school and job or two and bills and stuff.

What can be done? Know and spread the truth in whatever way is realistically available to you. Even if it's one-on-one, say - standing in the checkout line at the grocery store. Or some such place. And you strike up a conversation... Haven't we all seen oodles of testimonials just here - about some conversion or epiphany or emergence from The Dark Side?

Those who can, could always put even just a wee bit of their money where their mouths are - to Kerry's campaign, or another Dem in your area, or MoveOn.org. Every little bit helps fund a TV commercial campaign.

There's also ye olde phone/email contact list we have floating around here periodically...

Please note, here, The World's Greatest Lists of Media Contacts – updated April 14, 2004 – in the following thread:

LINK:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1413842#

IF THEY THINK WE DON’T CARE, THEY WON’T, EITHER!


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
19. Good post Yavin!
I also agree with most of those who have posted ahead of me.

There is one more thing: the education level in this country today is pathetic...more people get degrees, but they are not worth what they used to be.

Many Americans are so ignorant about the world beyond their nose. They are also insular, with no curiosity about the rest of the world.

Back in 2000, Gore won among people with the most education. And I think that many people backing Bush are uninformed, uneducated, & ignorant.

* Education..when I say education, I mean knowledge.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
20. Bush benefits from four factors that all presidents have benefited from.
First, a large majority of Americans pay no attention whatsoever to politics.

Second, many of those people just assume that Bush must be qualified to be president or he wouldn't be president.

Third, on questions of threats or war many people give a president a large benefit of the doubt based on the assumption that the president has more information than anyone else.

Fourth, there is a very strong reluctance on the part of most people to believe that their country or their president would do something evil.

The first two factors are related to the groups you identify as lacking empathy and not caring unless it affects them personally. Most of these people will vote either as they always have, or for whoever is leading in the polls come election day.

The second two factors are related to the president's honesty and integrity and people are very slow to change their mind about a president based on these things. However, day by day and voter by voter these people can be persuaded to reject the incumbent president.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sspiderjohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. Working class folks w/ 3 jobs & no health care are Repubs -- why?
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. There's a huge segment of the country
that thinks we should just drop nukes on Iraq.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. I Doubt That Most Working Class White People Are Republican
and the ones that are support Republicans because of religious issues.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
24. Bush is popular because: apathy (narcissism) is rampant; people
don't really understand the duty of citizenship and patriotism, don't really realize the ramifications of what his fiscal and tax policies, environmental policies, and foreign (war) policies have in store for us; and there are lots of nuts out there, tons and tons of nuts of all colors, sizes, and shapes, there are gun nuts, abortion nuts, religious nuts, wing nuts, nuts of every type who are being pandered to, nuts that make up his core base.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
agincourt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
25. It's a lot to things,
all working together, though lack of empathy is a big one. Reasons I'd include are corruption of many churches, which sometimes turn into fan clubs for republicans. Often churches try to make abortion the only issue in society when in fact it's only a symptom. Of course we have corruption of the corporate press which either tests the water to see how far right of an idea people will tolerate, or it spanks the republicans a little bit so that it can drop-kick the democrats later.
For some reason ,early on, people blamed Sept 11 on the democrats rather than the republicans, despite evidence to the contrary which has been coming out recently. When we return to the scene of the crime like the hearings, people just seem to go back to their anal-retentive ways of loving bush, no matter what is uncovered.
Another thing, shrub is so good at lying and playing dumb but cute, people just can't seem to see him for how bad he really is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
porkrind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
27. Bush is popular because of the media
and the "media" ARE businesses. Their customers are advertisers, and their product is you, the viewer. As a bussiness, their interests align with other busineses, not with individuals. And we know corporate interests are NOT the same as individual interests.

The public believes what the media tells them.

http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-contents.html

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Miss Authoritiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. This is not sarcasm:
I wish Mr. Chomsky would invent a decoder ring or a decryption machine so I can read/watch the news without all the intellectual heavy lifting. In lieu of these handy devices, I've been trying to avoid American sources and relying on foreign sources of news. But it is an effort.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
44. Text case of FASCISM. Gov't+Corporate media = Propaganda's Perfect Storm!
Edited on Tue Apr-20-04 10:29 PM by JohnOneillsMemory
(This is long but every link in here is golden to understand what we are up against and why the Republican media are winning for 30 years.)

Unfortunately, Americans have been subjected to scientifically applied propaganda by an alliance of corporate-dominated government agencies and corporate-dominated media outlets, especially TV.

This isn't just leftist rhetoric. It is real science developed by behavioral scientists, neurologists, sociologists, linguists, and historians.

And the diagnosis for conservative Americans is an ‘Authoritarian Personality’ which is a precursor to a socially destructive behavior called FASCISM.

After WWII, psychologists turned their studies to figuring out what personality traits led to large populations accepting the inhumane fascism of Franco, Mussolini, and Hitler. What they discovered was something they termed 'The Authoritarian Personality' which, in a nutshell, is fearful and prone to seeking security through pack identity (virulent nationalism), attacking other identity groups (like Jews, blacks, gypsys, gays, Muslims, etc.), and revering cruel dictators (the strong father as Fuhrer).

All that ugly behavior because of intentionally exaggerated fear inflaming their amygdala, that primal lizard part of the brain that is vigilant against possible threats and responds quickly without using the rational left-brain thought process that people like the...say...'liberal elitists'...might use to think for themselves instead of blindly accepting the things they are told by authority figures and the media. Watching television numbs the left brain and activates the less-critical right brain and accesses the alarm-prone amygdala in the base of our brain.

Look at this analysis of the 'conservative' personality:
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml

Take a look at this 1950 questionnaire used to determine 'Fascism Personality Receptivity' or F-factor.
http://www.anesi.com/fscale.htm

Now look at the 14 symptoms of Fascism.
http://empirewatch.org/pages/_archives/fascism/pages/14_symptoms.html

Now look at this article about the lessons learned about the power of the 1938 'War of the Worlds' radio broadcast and deliberately exploited with omnipresent television culture, the propagandists dream invention.
http://www.mackwhite.com/tv.html

And look at this site looking into the science of affecting how people think and behave or brainwashing:
http://www.hermes-press.com/brainwash1.htm

Besides the primal element of fearful brain control, there is also another primal element of human identity at play in our family experiences projected onto the world at large and used to pick our leaders and judge those in our group. Read linguist George Lakoff's work on 'framing' issues in words that appeal to those originally family-based emotions.

He claims that we tend to model our sense of what is appropriate behavior on either the Republican's 'Strong Father' dictator model or the Democrat's 'Nurturing Mother' teacher model. And he's advised Howard Dean and John Kerry on how conservatives have been using this technique for 30 years with stunning success.
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/27_lakoff.shtml

The power of words is also explained in this analysis of a George W. Bush State of the Union speech where the mechanics of verbal abuse and manipulation are explained in detail.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/130534_focusecond13.html

The personality of George W. Bush is explained in this British psychologist’s psychological profile based on family history shown to include abuse and leading to alcoholism, anti-intellectualism, cruelty, and the dreaded fascism-prone ‘Authoritarian Personality.’ Read this and understand just why that man is doing what he’s doing and why so many Americans are applauding him for it. Read this article called ‘So George, How Do You Feel About Your Mom and Dad?’
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1033904,00.html

A film illustrating the way corporations perfectly mimic a destructive psychopath shows how that common and dominating structure leads good people to do terrible things:
“While the corporation has the rights and responsibilities of ”a legal person”, its owners and shareholders are not liable for its actions. Moreover, the film explains, a corporation's directors are legally required to do what is best for the company, regardless of the harm created. What kind of person would a corporation be? A clinical psychopath…”
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0120-03.htm

The psychology of an abused child or battered wife is also in play. Americans identify with their government as they would a parent and they are heavily committed to defending it's actions as virtuous and well-meaning. Think of the sad phenomenon of ‘Stockholm Syndrome’ where helpless captives come to identify with and empathize with those who they are most vulnerable to, their very own captors. The status of being dominated induces a regressive embrace of the aggressor into ‘protector’ and their own status into ‘child.’ The power relationship is the sado-masochism that Hitler utilized to build the Nazi party in post-WWI Germany and wrote about in his book ‘Mein Kampf,’ fully aware of what he was exploiting in people’s emotions.

In case anyone thinks I'm a just a scorning elitist out to alienate people, understand that my view is that Americans are raised on lies from birth and indoctrinated unremittingly to maintain the lie matrix. In other words, 'forgive them, they know not what they do.'

Americans don't know what the Bill of Rights is or why it is an important protection against tyranny.
They don't know history, geography, civics, science, or politics.

Around 50% still think Bush* is trustworthy! Given that everything he's said publicly for years has been a lie, why is this?

Perhaps because Americans have been raised to believe that they:
1) live in a democracy.
2) compete in free markets.
3) share equal opportunity for all.
4) see their government spreading democracy and protecting the innocent around the world.
5) inherited the status of Best in Show Among Humans in 1776, 1945, 1991 and 2003 by winning the Revolutionary War, WWII, and both Iraq Wars I and II.

These are all lies taught to American children in school and then reinforced every day in movies and on TV for the rest of their lives. There is a well defined historical narrative that describes America as the strongest and most virtuous moral force in the world ever. So surely the President of these United States must embody all that is good about our country.

I call this Superman-Jesus-in-a-Cowboy-Hat Syndrome. Ronald Reagan fit this movie-role-as-national-identity perfectly for many Americans who didn't realize that he was a senile figurehead for a cabal of murderers who successfully portrayed the poor as lazy thieves and secretly armed terrorists against foreign governments in the name of democracy and freedom.

Here is how Americans have been led down the path to a Master Race group-think that accepts as both inevitable and just that domestic policy should be eugenics and foreign policy, imperialism:

Ever since the US lost the Vietnam War, the social atmosphere here has been very similar to post-WWI Germany. The hyper-nationalist German people were told in the summer of 1918 that they were winning World War I. But in the fall, they were suddenly informed that they had lost. They were stunned and angry as the victorious Allies raped them economically and their orderly society imploded into chaos. They looked around to find who among them had betrayed them and robbed them of their much-deserved victory over their inferiors. They demonized, assaulted, and killed Jews, labor unionists, socialists, Gypsys, and homosexuals.

The same scapegoating atmosphere bloomed in the US after Nixon was disgraced and the Vietnam War was revealed to be a quagmire of atrocities which had also ruined the economy. The Republicans have cleverly exploited this petulant atmosphere of entitlement denied to bring us to where we are today, mired in a culture war against liberals, feminists, blacks, homosexuals, and dangerous Middle Eastern foreigners, pretty much the same targets as the Nazis.

Ever wonder why 'liberal' became a swear word? Now you know. It is the American power structure’s synonym for ‘Jew.’

In fact, there is a name for this late 20th century fascist movement brought into the early 21st century: Dominionism.
It is an alliance between Christian fundamentalists, Cold Warrior Fascists, and the Military Industrial Oil Complex, just like the rise of the German Nazis who, by remarkable coincidence, were also financed and supplied in their day by many US corporations, including George W. Bush's financier grandfather, Prescott Bush.

It all rather makes sense, doesn't it? Military and financial powers work hand in hand to reinforce and protect each other by keeping people starving and fighting each other over worthless things like flags and uniforms. Meanwhile, the powerful swell up like ticks on the blood of the people they fool into doing the fighting and reward them with not much more than parades, ribbons, plaques, and brass bands.

Because this is the key to understanding politics-
Power protects power and gives not a whit for morality. Hence the pathological amorality of corporations. And nation states behave as corporations, not as the sum total of the words to their national anthems.
Power has a vested interest in keeping people divided, fearful, and ignorant using all those -isms we've become wary of.

Some Americans see through this and have evolved past nationalism and racism but lately it seems that a majority have not. And there is an alliance of media corporateers and fascist politicians who are determined to prevent Americans from finding out how this scam works. If you have figured out anything about life in America, consider sharing it with your fellow Americans so we can all evolve a little faster.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
28. that's very true
I don't have any confidence in the average voter. Americans are quite selfish and either oblivious to what's going on or don't care.

An astonishing number of dumbasses actually believe Kerry will raise their taxes! As if Bush lowered them at all! They don't make the connection to rising property taxes, college tuition, healthcare costs, etc.

This shit DOES affect them, they just don't know or don't give a shit. As long as they get their $300 refund they don't care that they have a net LOSS. Fuckers
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sorry. Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
31. most americans
don't vote. Poor Americans (who get hid hard by Bush) are even less likely to vote. He only needs the self-interested middle and upper classes to vote for him.

Why don't they vote? 'Cos if voting ever changed anything they'd make it illegal ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
32. Excellent post!
On another site for women I used to visit, it was exactly this. 9/11 didn't happen to them. In fact, weren't those families a little greedy requesting that money??? That's when I never wanted to read their little envious, bitter, shallow minds again. I detest that mentality.

Yes, that's why a draft is the only "slam dunk" that will wake up the masses. IF Bush wins another four more years, it's war for four more years, and if they got drafted,I think some might find that a little personal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
37. I think we need to remember that Nov. is 6 months away!
When I was working every day I didn't pay attention to politics, or the stupid little scandals that erupt all the time. Heck, I remember telling people that Nixon didn't do anything that all the other politicians do, he just go caught.

I don't say ignore everything or stop promoting Kerry, but the real decision makers haven't even begun to pay any attention.

Look at all the stuff that has happened just in the past month or so. Revalation books, Iraq getting worse than better, 9/11 hearings......we have no idea what the next several months are going to bring.

I heard a statement over the weekend, by some analyist (don't remember which one). He said Kerry doesn't even need to spell out a plan for anything because an election when there is an incumbant, the election is all about the incumbant. People will look at him sometime between last Sept or Oct and ask themselves "Does this guy deserve another 4 years?" I believe that!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
39. Because the truth is concealed.....
by the media, by the politicians, and by the radio talk show hosts that gloss over and sculpt new forms from the old and true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
41. you are right
as long as nothing happens to affect the majority of american's way of life, they will keep on doing what they've always been doing - living selfishly. we haven't reached critical mass yet, imo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Egalitarian Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
42. So true
How ironic that most of us also are thinking of ourselves when we're scared of Bush. The difference is that our definition of ourselves sees within it our co-dependance on the rest of humanity and the earth and also takes a longer term view of things (on average).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
43. I have a "friend" who is voting for shrub boy again this year
because she explained that she and her husband did well financially in the last few years. Well, yeah, they got ENORMOUS tax cuts because they make a load of money. And they don't give a shit about programs being cut to the less well-off.

On a more positive note, I have a couple of friends who are very bad off. They are on food stamps, he has been out of work for going on two years, they have four kids and are REALLY struggling just to make it. They are shrub supporters. Or were. I showed them some solid documentation for how voting for him is in their WORST interest, economically. It was enough to convince the hell out of both of them. They are now avowed Kerry supporters (they have been so for a few weeks, so I'm pretty sure it's gonna stick--their criticism of bush is getting to be more vocal, too).
They were honestly (and sadly) shocked at how much he has done that has affected them negatively.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
45. He's not. The media is conning you. They have BILLIONS invested
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal-4-Life Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
48. Well.....
I don't know about being a "celebrity", but he is very popular with Corporate America, especially with inudstry being able to exploit cheap labor from India and other 3rd world nations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal-4-Life Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
49. Well.....
I don't know about being a "celebrity", but he is very popular with Corporate America, especially with inudstry being able to exploit cheap labor from India and other 3rd world nations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 02:28 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC