I still don't understand how Bush could get reelected

[fencesitter]

I know this has been discussed in many forms, but I'm still baffled, dazed and confused how this country could choose this guy and his cartel to rule another four years. We all know Gore won the popular vote in 2000 and how close the last election was. Do you know or have heard of anyone who says, "Gee, I voted democratic in 2000, but I'm really impressed with the way we're bringing democracy to the middle east, the dramatic improvements in energy policy, education and health care, and who needed that bloated surplus anyway?" I really hope my faith in human nature and intelligence will be affirmed and there must be some people who really have second thoughts about giving that party another chance. I cannot believe we have lost votes.

[muchacho]

1. Never underestimate....

the ability of large segments of people to delude themselves.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. They've managed to scare people senseless

with all this talk of terror. It's pretty much come down to "vote for us or you're all gonna die" for the RNC, and it's sadly working.

[trogdor]

5. And if that doesn't work...

...there's always the guilt trip. "Vote for us, or you're un-American and you're going to Hell."

[YankeeFan]

29. And I Would Add Gun Control

The "Assault Weapon" ban cost Many Democrats their seats in the following election.

Firearms capable of Full Automatic firing (machine guns) ceased lawful production for civilians in 1986. The weapons that were banned were NOT capable of fully automatic firing. And limiting the magazine capacity made no sense what so ever. And the features that did make a gun an "Assault Weapon" are purely cosmetic.

How many Democrats saw Kerry campaign and vote for the renewal the the law last month on C-SPAN2? A lot of them are going to remember and few are going to believe Kerry about his "Sportsman's" talk.

Gun control cost Gore his home State in 2000. Never forget that.

[ContraBass Black]

3. Welcome to Cold, Harsh Reality

People have not learned, and will not until there is no food in the pantry, no gas in the car, no job to commute to, the bills are piling up, the air reeks of refuse, and their loved ones lie dead at their feet.

[Beetwasher]

4. Well, I Hope You're Wrong

But you may be right...

BTW, Welcome!

[truth2power]

27. Not bleeding from the ears yet...

Several years ago I asked a friend why Americans don't understand how bad things are. My friend said they're not bleeding from the ears yet. I guess he was right. Until Americans are in extremis they won't have a clue. Sort of comparable to your post, above.

[KC21304]

6. Don't forget he was never elected in the first place.

He lost the popular vote by over 500,000 votes and he would have lost Florida by at least 10,000 if all the people taken off the roll were allowed to vote.

[tom_paine]

7. The Power of Nazi-style Bushevik Pravda and lets not forget

both Manual and Electronic Disenfranchisement/Ballot-Stuffing Strategies pioneered by the Busheviks in 2000 and 2002 (or perhaps earlier -- just HOW LONG has this been going on?)

[UTUSN]

8. Two Hopeful Things (given a "fair" election)

1) Nobody who voted GORE is ever going to vote Shrub, for starters. So there's an edge there, plus new voters plus disaffected centrists who might have voted Shrub.

2) Some historian on cable last week reviewed elections where incumbents were running and concluded that incumbents either win BIG or lose-BIG. Does anybody see Shrub winning BIG at all right now?

(That said, I can never stay with just the positive: )

But somebody said that the election will be decided "by something that happens in the last couple of months that isn't on the radar screen right now." And it could be anything big or little, ranging from RAYGUN's death to another attack and anything in between.

[forgethell]

21. I hope that you are correct

about nobody who voted for Gore voting for *. But I fear that you are wrong. I know, personally, 3 who voted for Gore that have changed their minds. Of course, I live in a very conservative area, and these are blue-collar guys who are pretty socially conservative anyway.

but then there are some conservatives who are going to vote against *, too.

[Heyo]

33. This is true...

I know some too, some of my parents friends and a guy at work...

Used to go left and voted gore but are now behind Bush...

I'm sure it goes the other way too.

Heyo

[Az]

9. The left has forgotten itself

Ask yourself why is freedom of speech necissary. Ask yourself why freedom of religion is necissary. What does freedom of the press mean?

The left is not a path for uninformed individuals. It is not an easy path to understand. It naturally creates leaders that are not decisive as the path is not fixed. The increased difficulty means that each participant comes to the arena with their own sense of what they are fighting for. Thus there is little cohesion. We are fighting for things that can make some people uncomfortable. The changes we often insist must be made can undermine stability in systems that have held for ages.

Meanwhile on the right you have a consortium of powers that are willing to manipulate people and make use of them as tools instead of individuals. Corporations have no interest in the peoples will. They are only concerned with how they can use them. While the Religious Right offers these corporations a ready made army of the willing, ready to get behind anything that enables them to challenge their common enemy, a strong federal government defending the people.

[derby378]

10. Some thoughts

"Gee, I voted democratic in 2000, but I'm really impressed with the way we're bringing democracy to the middle east, the dramatic improvements in energy policy, education and health care, and who needed that bloated surplus anyway?"

Haven't really heard anyone say any of the above with the possible exception of "democracy" to the Middle East, and by now you probably know that's highly suspect.

I think we've reached a critical point in our nation's history where too many Americans just don't want to think that much. People like Noam Chomsky and Susan Faludi usually aren't booked as guests for talk shows because they're a little too deep for some folks. Don't get me wrong; Beavis and Butt-head is one of my guilty passions (David Letterman loves them, too). But the mind is kind of like the body - feed it nothing but junk food, and you get lethargic, easily tired, and most likely more prone to illness. So I mix my low-impact entertainment with a little Carl Sagan (shine on, you crazy diamond), a little Penn & Teller, weekday doses of Air America hosts like Randi Rhodes and Al Franken, etc.

This may not be the complete answer, but I hope that helps.

Don't forget Diebold and ES&S, too. If you don't know what that's about yet, try this thread for starters:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=503072&mesg_id=503072

[Solly Mack]

11. I hear ya. I know all the explanations given..the reasons why, etc. BUT

in my heart, I can't for the life of me figure out why some people are just some damned blind.


I can't put myself in their shoes because such thinking just isn't part of my make-up.

[One_Life_To_Give]

12. Re: How could * be re-elected

Easy, have the same spread of Red and Blue states.

What you need to look at is what are the views of people in the Red States and the Red Counties within those states. Turning them Blue is the Key to a Democratic victory.

This country is more divided into two camps than I have seen at any other point in my life. If we don't try to understand the concerns of the opposition we will never be able to appeal to them.

[Kool Kitty]

19. If you're talking popular vote, he wasn't elected in the

first place. Let the red states and counties deal with us, for a change.

[One_Life_To_Give]

22. Popular vote doesn't matter

Who cares who wins the popular vote.

If the same Red/Blue distribution occurs the electoral college puts * back in office. Need more electoral votes to change the outcome, and that means making a Red state Blue.

Hence need to convince people in Red States/Counties/neighborhoods that they should vote for Kerry.

[Kool Kitty]

25. Then perhaps it is time to get rid of the electoral college.

(In the case of the 2000 election, if all the votes were counted and the voting rolls in Florida weren't purged, Gore would have won. The Supreme Court awarded the Presidency to Bush, much to our nation's shame.)
Hence the need to get every person that is eligible, to vote.

[One_Life_To_Give]

26. Re: Need to get every person to vote.

But the rules for the 2004 election use the electoral college. Spending time trying to get more people to vote in Mass. is nice, but won't accomplish much, in terms of Federal offices.

Kerry gets our Electoral votes as is. Turn out another 30,000 voters for Kerry and the result is the same. Turn out another ten thousan votes for Kerry in New Hampshire and we turn that state Blue. And all the electoral votes go to Kerry.

Call me thick but somehow I can't see the point in winning the popular vote if the election is still lost by the rules (Electoral College)

OLTG

[Kool Kitty]

31. Obvioiusly I am the thick one.

I know how the EC works, I just want every one to get out and vote. That would turn some of the red states blue.

[htuttle]

13. Election 2004 is an intelligence test for the American public

If it passes, there is still a lot of very hard work ahead, and lots of opportunities for failure.

If it fails, the consequence is death (of a sort). The world will not forgive the US if it elects Bush in 2004. 'America' -- as an ideal, as the world has imagined it -- will be dead once and for all.

[HamdenRice]

14. A Democrat for Bush

I met a young woman just last week who said she always votes Democratic, but will vote for Bush in November. It was pretty sad to hear her reasoning.

Basically, she said her husband is in the military and that the Iraqi resistance has them so angry that they want someone to "carpet bomb those MFs" to use her phrase. She babbled on about 9/11 (this is in New York) and again about just nuking those "Arab bast**ds".

She doesn't think Kerry will make war on all Arabs, Muslims and terrorists, which she basically lumped together. She also believes that Sadam attacked us on 9/11 and just has no idea, and wouldn't hear, any explanation that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. At this point, for her its just us against all Arabs and Muslims.

That was about the gist of her logic. Some people are just really, really angry and they don't want any kind of intelligent, sophisticated or even effective approach to the problem of terrorism and war.

I meet a LOT of working class and poor people, even middle class people, who really don't know the difference between Iraq, Afghanistant, Al Queda, Sadam and bin Laden. It's all the same to them, and they just want the US to make war on "those people." Very very few people, for example, who are not cable news junkies and NY Times readers, can even find Iraq on a map. Remember, polls show that about 25% of Americans can't even find the United States on a world map.

Sorry to have to report this but it's a reality.

[californiahippie]

16. :(

:(

[bhunt70]

15. cognitive dissonance.

[BillZBubb]

17. Simple: Most voters are ignorant of the facts

First, lets drop the "re-elected". He didn't get elected the first time!

A recent poll I saw TODAY, shows that a majority still believe Saddam Hussein was a major player with Al Qaeda. There is, of course, no evidence supporting that and evidence showing just the opposite exists.

A majority also still believe Saddam Hussein possessed WMDs at the time of the invasion.

And a vast majority of the fools who believe the two above points are voting for Bush*.

Blame the corporate media, blame the right wing propaganda effort, or blame the voters themselves. Whatever the source, enough of these clueless zombies exist to elect the Chimp.

[chemenger]

18. Just look at the ignorant dumbasses

who would vote for him (again) and realize that they are the majority.

[wabeewoman]

20. I don't think we have lost

thinking people's votes but at least as many uninformed may have voted for Gore as voted for bush. I just hope the 'elite' as bush likes to call people who think are in the majority. Guess I'll get a bumper sticker: Elite and proud of it! The religion part of it is what scares me. There is even a new song out about taking under God out of the pledge of alliance. Those type of things are hot buttons with people. Rove and bush are going to play on emotions so people vote feelings instead of fact. But I am hopeful because at least in my state, the democratic primaries drew 5x normal and the repugs were barely noticed.

[Tellurian]

23. Voting is IRRELEVANT... at this point in our socalled Democracy

Each state using the Diebold machines will be tampered with to show Bush the winner. Recounts won't be a problem, no receipts to recount.

It's the ELECTORAL VOTES.

How can we protect the Electoral Votes?

We can't.

How can we protect ourselves.

Removal the problem.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

24. I think these people are "mired" in the past. They don't look at what's

going on now. The Repubs who are still voting Bush talk about Reagan, Nixon, LBJ, unions. They believe that the Dems "screwed over" businesses back in the 70's and 80's. I've noticed that a lot of small business owners feel this way.

THEN you get the bible-thumpers who only care about how Bush "spouts off" about religion, the racists who are anti-welfare. Also, some people like to think of themselves as the "Upper Echelon" and have their whole identity tied up in "I'm a wealthy Republican" or "I'm an Eisenhower Republican." Then you have the gun freaks who think that the Dems are going to take away their guns.

There's also the people who were born and raised Republican and have the Dem vs. Repub. thing going on. The Repubs have been masters at drumming up this "we vs. them" sentiment.

What we need to do is make these people realize that the Bush Repub Party is NOT the Republican Party of old. They are a dangerous "offshoot" of the party.

[TroubleMan]

28. "FOUR LEGS GOOD!!!! TWO LEGS BAD!!!!"

A year later it will be "FOUR LEGS GOOD!!!! TWO LEGS BETTER!!!!"

And at least half of US citizens will think it was always that way.


We're such fucking sheep.

[Cleita]

30. I don't understand how he got elected, but he wasn't elected was he?

He was selected illigitimately by the US Supreme Court overextending their jurisdiction. The ball was in the Florida Supreme Court's jurisdiction. They made a ruling. BushCO went boohoo to the US Supreme Court, who according to the law should have refused to hear the complaint because it was out of their jurisdiction and let the Florida Supreme Court ruling stand. Our politicians should never have allowed this to happen.

When we take back our country, I think a lot of explaining is needed.

[Skittles]

32. I think there is some sort of mass psychosis going on

otherwise I'd have to believe my Tombo who says there really are that many stupid people in America.