God, every news network, right now,

[Goldom]

All talking about how this football player is such a hero for dying in the war. But the rest of the americans dead? When do they get their recognition? Whatever, Mr. Average American likes football, right? Maybe now they'll be all "arrr george bush killed my football player, now im angry!" cept only if they are pirates too cause otherwise they won't go arrr.

[bloom]

1. They are clueless.

:(

[rustydog]

34. No, they are not clueless...

they are beating the drum for Bush*s war.
They have Tillman's blood on their hands just like The bushless wonder. They also have the blood of 700 other dead americans and over 20 thousand wounded.

They are shameless, not clueless.

[Az]

2. Distant death

There was an article on NPR yesterday about BD from Doonesbury getting his leg shot off. The commentator noted that all these other deaths and injuries meant little to him because they did not directly effect him. BD, a cartoon character, did effect him. He knew BD. BD was part of his life.

Politicians learned a lesson from Vietnam. The daily reading of deaths, injuries, and wounded took its toll on the people. Where personal aquaintence was absent the overwhelming awareness of the pain took hold. Bush and Co have squelched the flow of such readings as best they could. Some of the deaths come across on a daily basis, but none of the wounded numbers and those that die in hospitals or in transit are lost to us. The people do not feel the burden of that which they are responsible for. And by allowing George and Co to have their way with Iraq we are responsible for every limb lost and every life ended.

[ewagner]

3. How ironic

The football player is receiving the "hero" treatment and knock the story of the coffin pictures off the front page..........

Is our attention span really that short?

Are we (as a country) so blind we can't see this irony?

What was it that Stalin is supposed to have said? "One death is a tragedy but a million deaths is a statistic.

[ConcernedCanuk]

4. "Is our attention span really that short?" - in a word - yes

.
.
.

A reminder of the grief in Iraq:

The "Liberated"









Screenshots are from SPIEGEL ONLINE go to the middle of the page, find "MULTIMEDIA" and clik on "Fear and hope between rubble: A Multimediaspecial " - the audio is in German, but you can advance it to the pictures by selcting on the bottom of the flash screen.

"The Liberators"

[nostamj]

19. the coffins story is not being deflected

not yet anyway.

while yes, the FOOTBALL HERO is getting a lot of play, they are still showing regular segments and commentary on the coffins story.

this is CNN. i've had it on (muted) all day while working and listening to AA.

[tom_paine]

26. Yes. Yes. Stalin would have understood Imperial Amerika today

Stalin knew Totalitarianism. And he would have seen many echoes of his Bolsheviks in the Imperial Busheviks.

He would have disagreed on basic economic philosophy and probably wouldn't understand why the Busheviks are moving so slowly, but other than that...

[rkc3]

5. Media

Hasn't the Bush administration prohibited the discussion of individual deaths in the media? How can they get away with this?

Perhaps, they'll shut down Fox like Tami Solicio was fired yesterday for violating these rules.

[Goldmund]

6. It's because Americans subconsciously know...

...that the bulk of our military consists of people who had little choice but to sign up because they were poor.

This guy wasn't poor, and therefore had a choice -- hence he becomes a hero in most minds.

[bloom]

10. It's just like Bobos in Paradise

I was looking at the book while I was at the library yesterday (written by David Brooks associated with the Weekly Standard, btw), and one thing he said was that status these days is calculated by one's net worth multipled by ones anti-materialism.

So they might see that in this instance. As you suggested.

[Goldmund]

27. That's a pretty good formula,

although I don't think it's totally correct. I think that a person with wealth quotient of 10 and an antimaterialism quotient of 2 is viewed as more worthy than a person with the opposite values. Thus, you can have somebody like Princess Diana worshipped for giving a fraction of a percent of her vast wealth to good causes (even though a single piece of jewelry she wore could have fed all children in Africa for a week), while a poor person who gives proportionally much more is not valued as highly.

[bloom]

29. yes - if you don't have much, it doesn't work...

Brooks may have acounted for that.

He didn't really have an actual "formula" - though it seems someone could invent one and probably has.


I think people assign more status to those who started with little or nothing and made it big, also. (Diana wasn't poor by any means, but the school teacher thing seemed like it was played up).

Think J. Rawlings - how much it seemed to help her status to know that she was a single mom writing in a cafe with "no" money.

"Do what you love, the money will follow" mentality. It's part of the dream.

Making a living as a sports figure is probably a dream to many. My guess is this football player associated more status in being in the military than in what he was doing. Many don't think that these days. But there are lot of middle class people where I live who would.

So this guy has football dream status, middle class war glory status, anti-materialism status... I don't know if he started with little or nothing or not - but that would add to it....

[Goldmund]

35. Great points.

But I think we need to keep in mind that some of this cultural value system is incidental, and some of it is meticulously groomed by hands-on propaganda. It isn't like you can exactly tell where one stops and the other begins, and there's no clear-cut distinction between the two, because propaganda influences culture which in turn influences propaganda.

Either way, I think that the whole cult of a "self-made millionaire", a person who, as you say, "started with little or nothing and made it big" (which in reality is a small minority of rich people), exists for one reason and one reason only: to create an anthropomorphic image of the lie that we are all equal, that our system is fair, and that you, also, can be a millionaire, if you work hard within the system. And it's one of the main reasons of the paradox that most of the republican base are poor religious whites from rural areas who get screwed by the GOP policies more than anyone. It's because they believe that they, too, can one day become like the rich white men they worship, if they only support them and vote for them.

[NewHampster]

7. any attention to someone people know is good

and he was an honorable man who gave up a multi-million dollar career to fight in Afghanistan. he also refused all press coverage and was not doing it for the press.

Look for the other threads here before shooting off please.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1460631

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

8. Those other Americans were not rich! They didn't turn down a 3.6 Mil deal

To follow this admin to their senseless deaths. I admire his patriotism and I pray for him and his family but this is just sad!

[ComerPerro]

9. Hell, at least they are paying attention to A death

That's good enough for me.

Plus, I do think it is worthy of mention that he volunteered for active duty, despite his NFL contract.

I respect the hell out of him for that.

He put his life on the line. He did what he thought was right.

Now, sadly, so did the other 700+ who have died... and yes, it is tragic that the media just doesn't give a shit about them.

But at least this one death is being covered.

Maybe people will start asking why.

I hope so.

The worst part, though, is that I KNOW Bush will campaign on this. He will exploit the hell out of it.

That man, and his whole damn administraton, have no souls. They are evil motherfuckers with a lot of blood on their hands.

[Catt03]

32. I hope so too

however, as has been posted on this thread, I am sure this man will be exploited.

Would be interesting to read his background and family history. I would like to know why this was his choice. What motivated him to give up a career and reject the limelight?

Anyone know about him?

[moondust]

11. All about millionaires.

I feel much worse about those who joined the army or reserves because their slave wages weren't cutting it and they needed to feed their children and get some money for schooling. Lori Piestewa comes to mind. First Bush screws them out of a decent job and then he trades their lives for oil.

:puke:

[jobycom]

16. I understand, but disagree

I can't see categorizing deaths as more or less acceptable, and frankly, to me, that means Iraqi as well as American deaths. As a social issue, I agree that the results of a paid military which recruits the poorest to die for the richest is disgusting. But I won't feel less for Pat Tillman because he was rich than I do for Lori Piestewa because she was poor. Both are sad, and both are condemnations of Bush and his cabal.

War should only be used when there is no choice, when someone has troops on your front lawn and will kill you right then if you don't fight back. Any other use of troops is murder-- by the leaders.

[moondust]

21. None are acceptable.

Those who had no real choice but to join bother me more than those who did.

[jobycom]

22. So far, they've all had a choice

Maybe some had easier choices than others, but they all volunteered.

[moondust]

28. Want vs. need.

Volunteering because you want to for any number of intangible reasons is not the same as volunteering because you essentially have to in order to meet your basic economic needs. The football player joined merely because he wanted to. Many others joined because they had few if any other chances to escape chronic poverty. Big difference.

[jobycom]

30. I hear you, but it's still a choice.

I have problems with the military being sold to young people as an opportunity rather than what it is. But it's still a choice. I grew up in a very poor region of the country. I almost went into the military, so did my wife. Her brothers did. We had choices, but the advertising of the military made one choice seem easier than the others. Something about the mystique of the military made it seem better to Tillman, too. So he chose it. No one HAS to choose it. They just buy what is being sold. Both are victims of the salesmen.

[Catt03]

31. Thanks for your post

[Old and In the Way]

12. Let the extravaganza begin.

This will provide the great nexus that Karl Rove was hoping for.

NFL = Patriotism = Fox = Tillman = War = Bush

I have no doubt that Tillman's death will be used by this administration to glorify the justness of the war. And this will be underwritten by the NFL and Fox. And Bush will get plenty of airtime to eulogize Tillman as a proxy for all of the war dead.

Count on it.

[jobycom]

13. To be coldly political right now...

I'm saddened by Tillman's death. I thought he was courageous for what he did, and much less shallow than the average spoiled rich athelete. And though I disapprove strongly of the war in Afghanistan as well as the war in Iraq, I admire someone with the courage to go, especially in his situation, turning down millions to do it.

Now for the coldly political part. Maybe seeing a real face, a real death, instead of a video game score, will wake people up to the reality of what's happening. It also might highlight the difference between real courage, like Kerry had, and priviledged cowardice of the type Bush displayed. I wouldn't want to see Tillman's tragic death used politically in any way (though I expect the Repubs to do so), but the fact that this story is getting exposure might help demonstrate our point.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

15. oh, they'll exploit it all right

"let's roll?"

--and unlike jessica lynch, this poster child is dead and can't contradict the administration. that's how rove likes 'em.

[jobycom]

23. He also has an image outside of Rove's control-- it could backfire

If people see Bush as exploiting him, it would turn people off.

[bloom]

17. I think it's more likely to get more people worked up into more

of a war frenzy than they already are - than to help any peace efforts.

With the help of FOX, etc.

[jobycom]

25. Some it will. Just as it proves to us further that we are right. But some

who haven't gotten it before may react differently.

Tillman's fan base will be the NFL crowd, and a lot of them are the ones who aren't paying as much attention, who are going with what is reported. For some, this may be the first body they see. Some minds will change. Not all, we are never going to change all of them.

[seabeyond]

14. this man didnt want the news

yet here he is plastered everywhere so i turned off news. we are an odd people

[More Than A Feeling]

18. Thank you, Pat Tillman.

I pray that your brother Kevin and your fellow soldiers do not join you (as casualties of this war).

Having said that, I don't know how to feel about the fact that his rookie card is now selling for over 100.00 on ebay.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

20. Hey, at least Americans can be reminded..

..that they still actually have troops in Afghanistan. They Afghan's have been liberated! It's free and peaceful! Or so you would think, as there's basically no news coming out of there.

Sadly, it takes the death of a football player to remind Americans that there's still a failed war going on in Afghanistan.

[Insider]

38. same thoughts

at least the troops get some attention thru his untimely death. warm thoughts to his family, and ALL the families.

warm thoughts to US and all those lost around the world as a result of this misadministration.

[tom_paine]

24. Imperial Amerika is a nation about special privilege and aristocracy

(not to be confused with the Old American Republic which preceeded it from 1776-2000)

<sarcasm on>

Thus, the worshipfulness about the Aristocratic Dead (Tillman was part of the Nouveau Aristocracy of Athletics & Beauty) is perfectly in keeping with what Amerika has become.

Of course they don;t pay any attention to the Serfs who died. What do those Filthy Little Nobody's have to compare with the Accomplished Greatness of a Pat Tillman?

</sarcasm off>

Jesus, every time I climb into the head of Bushevik Monsetrs or their Imperial Subjects or Pravda Whores...I feel dirty.

I need a shower.

[Muddleoftheroad]

33. What offensive crap

No, what people are upset by is here is someone that they not only knew before he served, but someone who had everything any of us could ever ask for -- fame, wealth, health -- and gave it all up to risk it for the nation he loved.

Pat Tillman's sacrifice further shows that there was indeed no difference between him and the other folks that died. They all volunteered. They all risked everything they had for the nation they loved.

[LittleApple81]

36. Unfortunately, he SWALLOWED the lies and believed them. Now

he is dead for supporting a war that is misdirected and wrong. If Bush had really fought the war on TERROR we would be spending the money in Afghanistan to make it a better country instead of getting ourselves tangled in Iraq.
Tillman would not have died. the other poor guys who volunteered to defend their country (and were sent on a fools' errand) and who have been grievously injured or killed would not have to suffer or die.

[Catt03]

37. I agree

The war in Afganistan is the war that Americans supported, if any. Tillman and thousands of others deserved better.

[Muddleoftheroad]

40. The war on Afghanistan was legit

It was not misdirected and wrong.

How it was fought is always open to second guessing, but Tillman was a genuine hero.

[treepig]

42. how was the war in afganistan legitimate?

how many of the 9-11 perpertrators where afghani?

the only legitimate war would have been against saudi arabia, not to bring more suffering to all the innocent people in afghanistan.

oh, are you going to say al qaeda was training in afganistan so that makes the war legit? well, they were also training in phoenix, hamburg and florida - so why aren't we at war with, and bombing the shit out of those places too?

i don't know what's happening to this forum when there's almost universal agreement that one of bush's willing executioners (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3988.htm)is a geniune hero - that's disusting. in the past i've been critized for critizing the troops because they lily-white innocents, tricked into signing up with promises of an otherwise unobtainable college education. well - that half assed rationale sure doesn't apply in this case.

[tom_paine]

43. I agree Tillman was a hero & the Afghan Invasion a legit response to 9-11

However, there are 700 (probably more like 1,200) Dead Heroes who get no Corporate TV Pravda Seranade.

Not to mention the 3,000 or so Limbless Heroes who's names and faces are scrubbed from our consciousness by the Orwellian Silence emanating across Corporate TV Pravda.

You can think my assertion were offensive crap. I am a Veteran, sir, and when our Brave Boys die, ESPECIALLY for no good reason, and their valorous sacrifice is given the Orwell treatment because the Chcikenhawk don't want Truth to hurt them politically, it hurts all that much more.

Further, when the 700 deaths are scrubbed from the records (metaphorically speaking) and Corporate TV Pravda decides to run, very Soviet-like, with the Death of the Sports Hero, it is insulting to everyone who died in Orwellian Silence and who's very existance is being "denied" by the Busheviks and their Sub-Media.

In other words...

I'll see your Patriotic Outrage with my own Patriotic Outrage PLUS my Military Service.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

41. Cleverly transferring the Fallen Hero of Afghan to the faceless of Iraq

to minimize the leak of the photos of coffins.

These people know how to cover their liabilities to maintain the Big Lie that there is nothing more noble than dying for your country.

"The nouveau aristocracy of beauty and sports..."

Fucking sports is the big distraction that keeps people (namely men) from using their minds to learn about issues of life and death. It also is used to indoctrinate men with warrior values like fighting for a regional identity, sublimating yourself to the herd, targeting enemies in different uniforms, taking orders, quality of life being a grid of numbers instead of human community. There are so many insidious ways that men are turned into warriors through sports culture. That's why athlete's are so highly paid, for their value to the corporation's that feed on them and the energies they induce in the masses watching minituarized mock warfare.

If you saw the Superbowl half-time show right after 9/11 with the blending of football+rock'n'roll+military tributes than you understood the Nazi Nuremberg Rally theater going on that was as perfect an act of propaganda as the horrible 9/11 attacks were.

I've thought sports brought out a dangerous pack violence in males ever since I was a kid and only the school sports team guys with numbers on their shirts were beating the shit out of me. Just those guys.

I just read Noam Chomsky writing along the same lines in his book 'Understanding Power.'

Ah, TV Nation builds its pantheon of ignorance. Sad.
Beware the cult of Hero worship and the values espoused.

TRIBUTES BECOME EPITAPHS.

[onecitizen]

39. I know.........

it's just not right. I feel sorry for the NFL guy, but I feel sorry for them all. Each and everyone of them.

[kateliz]

44. one good thing...

The one good thig to come of all of this exposure is the exposure itself. i am so tired of the news reporting the day's casualties almost as an afterthought. here is a man who sacrificed fame and fortune for a cause he believed in, and althought his death is no more tragic than any other soldiers, it is making a lot of people sit up and take notice.