Media Alert: Wes Clark for Kerry on Hardball 4/23

[Adelante]

4/23 7PM EST MSNBC

Re Vietnam, war in Iraq, and presidential race.

[BootinUp]

1. WooHoo

Two nights in a row. Go get em Wes! :bounce:


:)

[StephNW4Clark]

2. Please let us know what he's saying

for us cubicle dwellers on the West Coast

[BootinUp]

3. We'll try steph n/t

[StephNW4Clark]

15. thanks! this is great!

[BootinUp]

17. commercial break steph :)

we'll be right back. :D

[StephNW4Clark]

18. **sigh**

Clarkies are the best!

[Scoopie]

62. I missed it too

Taking care of a very sick child. :(

They ARE going to replay it, though, like during the week, aren't they? It usually replays at either 10 or 11 p.m. here.

[Eurobabe]

4. bumperoo

[Eurobabe]

5. talking about pat tillman and the human *cost* of war

seems serious tonight

[BootinUp]

7. Thats pretty sad, apparently Tillman was

really a good guy. I know every loss is just as terrible but this story is kinda unique.

[Adelante]

38. He's really hurt over this guy

He has the soldiers deep in his heart. :cry:

[Eurobabe]

6. in democracy people have right to know

wrong not to show coffins coming home

[mtnester]

8. Tweety killing the admin

about not being punished for telling lies, while Seattle photographer and hubbie fired for letting truth out (coffins)

[Kool Kitty]

67. Yeah, that was good.

Chris said that this woman was fired over the photo, while the administration got everything wrong about the war and no one has been reprimanded or fired.

[BootinUp]

9. Tweety just said Wes called Iraq a joke

:grr:

Wes is explaining it was a mistake, he never called it a joke. Geebus.

[seabeyond]

19. for clarity

hardball said joke and wes corrected tweety on it. and tweety took the correction. tweety was not saying clark said joke. he realized he used the word and wasnt meaning it joke and corrected self

[MissB]

10. The reason behind the war isn't a joke

It is an elective war. Clark isn't allowing Tweety to frame the debate.

[BootinUp]

11. Wes: we are creating more enemies, we are not winning WOT!

[BootinUp]

12. Wes: eventually we are going in to Fallujah

But need to limit it to a division, and focus on saving civilians lives.

[Gloria]

59. Go house to house...

to avoid the unecessary killing of just bombing (my words)

House to house fighting....ugly stuff.

[mtnester]

13. Wes -

for every person killed in Irag, creating 10, 12 or more potential terrorists...

Fallujah - half hearted truce (tweety)

[Eurobabe]

14. wow tweety just said "you're the general..."

quite deferential this evening...

[robbedvoter]

61. Safe now. Orders from GE more relaxed.

[KittyWampus]

16. Falluja Requires Entire Division

enough boots on ground will enable better discrimination of targets (limit civilian casulties)

Sadr is a political situation.

[mtnester]

20. Can we turn over Iraq

Militaries don't do democracies

[BootinUp]

21. Militaries don't do democracy

Planning of the military/political goals never done like in Bosnia

[mtnester]

22. How do we get Iraq to fight for their new government

If you give the Iraqi's real authority - if it looks like they are taking orders from US it won't work

[mtnester]

23. Chalabi...

Transparent that US is commited to Chalabi..he has to break with us and do what Iraq wants, not Pentagon..but he won't break with American umbilical.

Did we fight the war for him (tweety) - he was the one that kept saying low cost and easy victory

Wes - he misled us, and this administration wanted to use military power instead of other means to take out Sadaam - fundamental flaw in logic and that is why we are not winning the war in Iraq - story over

[Adelante]

39. Or the war on terror nt

[Scoopie]

64. As someone who is very familiar with Jordan

I cannot tell you how happy I am that the General takes on Chalabi. Chalabi is not only a nut, but a criminal who embezzled blood money from thousands of people who put their money and trust in a Jordanian bank.

If you've read John Dean,'s Worse Than Watergate you know enough of the back story on this power-hungry punk, who doesn't have the support of the Iraqi - or any Arabic - people. Certainly not from Jordan, Iraq's neighbor and probably the most stable Muslim country in the region.

Good on the General for recognizing what a scum bucket Chalabi is and how he'll be nothing but a despot himself.

[Eurobabe]

24. i miss wes...

he was great!!

[Snellius]

25. I hope he's VP

Somehow I still feel he'll be president someday.

[Eurobabe]

26. i still have wes wing on my car

my license plate. not taking it off.

[DancingBear]

27. What is there left to say?

The Man Who Should Be President just gave Chris Matthews a presidential interview. He was concise, accurate, brutally honest when needed, and set out SPECIFIC plans and goals for a succesful completion of the mess * started.

Please, Mr. Kerry, we're beggin' ya.....

[Eurobabe]

30. don't worry DB, i gotta feeling....

[DancingBear]

56. Me too

I'll send you an email soon - promise!

(recovering from hospital stuff - but moving around again)

[KittyWampus]

28. Wes- What is mission of troops. What is their authority, obligations

Military doesn't DO DEMOCRACY.

Troops mission must be crystal clear. Suppose new Iraq Govt. says don't allow American tanks in streets at night.

A soverign Iraq Government inherently inconsistant with American military taking full responsibilty for security.

FOr Iraqi's to have new govt. need to have REAL authority. See militants as enemies of Iraq. Bring back previous generals.

Chris asks if Chalabi/America - like Laurence of Arabia- Wes says Chalabi must break with United States and win friends in IRAQ. He's afraid to let go of the US umbilical chord LOL :D

Chalbi mislead US govt.

BUT, Bush Admin. WANTED to use military power to take out a STATE in middle East rather than using Internatinal Law and other avenues first.

They wanted an overt show of power by attacking and taking down a STATE.

[Malva Zebrina]

29. It would be a smart move on the part of Kerry to take Clark as his

running mate, imo.

Two brilliant, articulate men who could swamp the stupid idiot in a second would be really a sweet thing to witness.

[Scoopie]

66. Couldn't you just see

chickenhawk Cheney trying to defend military action (that we all know he planned, ordered and fed to the Shrub to execute) against a four-star general who fought in Vietnam and who won a war with NO casualties?

Plus, Clark would dazzle against that ugly mug of Cheney's. And sound brilliant while doing it! :D

[Spazito]

31. Any thinking American would KNOW that Wes would be able...

to start fixing the damage done, in Iraq and elsewhere, immediately if he were VP. He knows the military, he knows the international diplomatic system, if Kerry doesn't pick him, I think it will be a really big mistake.

[Adelante]

37. What's interesting is after Vietnam

he wrote his masters thesis on exactly how war operations should be conducted and then proved his own thesis in the Balkans. Political, diplomatic, military, all working as gears in a single mechanism and set out in advance as to the "mission." Unfortunately in Iraq, it was all water over the bridge, as far as Bushco was concerned, and they never considered his analysis.

[KittyWampus]

40. Was That Thesis Ever Made Available To Public?

Would love to read it.

[Adelante]

43. I wish I knew

Perhaps we can get him to give it to us! :bounce: We can put it online.

[BootinUp]

45. Calling ArkySue

We need our liason!!!

[Jai4WKC08]

57. We should be able to get it

The library at Ft Leavenworth should have a copy. Clark was a student there when he wrote it. They keep that stuff forever.

Might be classified, but I sorta doubt it. If it isn't, it should be possible to look it up and make a copy. Or maybe even order one on-line.

[Spazito]

48. Yes, it was very powerful yesterday, with Blitzer, when he made...

the comment about his 34 years in the military getting over Vietnam, it meant so many things: the devastation of the military, the bad strategies used, the lies used. It took me a bit of time thinking about what he said before I realized how powerful it was.

(Edited to correct my incomplete sentence, must do more than spell check from now on, lol)

[Adelante]

52. Yesterday's was a classic

Our amazing Wes.

[robbedvoter]

51. hey, even Nader is now quoting Clark, after scolding Moore for endorsing

him - seems Moore got to him:

Former general Wesley Clark described President Bush's foreign policy
as cowboy unilateralism that goes against everything the US is supposed
to represent to ...

<http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-04-22-oppose_x.htm

[Cassyma]

58. Well said, Spazito!

Nice to know I'm not the only Canadian4Clark :D ..although I knew I wasn't alone here, eh?? :)

Cheers!
Pat in Canada

[Spazito]

74. Thanks, Cassyma!

I am proud of what I see as the "Canadian" connection to Wes. Former Chief Justice Louise Arbour and Wes worked very hard to ensure that the war criminals from Serbia and Kosovo were captured, even though some of the higher ups in the Pentagon didn't want the troops to be used to do the search. It shows how Wes can work with everyone and that he sees beyond the immediate, gotta love the guy, eh!

[Adelante]

32. I liked that he defended the woman

who released those photographs of the war dead, saying the American public must be in the know on the true cost of war.

[BootinUp]

36. Oh, I missed the end

But sounds like Wes alright.

[Adelante]

47. Actually Matthews was even harder than Wes

Tweety is really pissed off about this, saying why not the people who brought us into this war under false pretenses, why do they still have their jobs?

[TacticalPeek]

33. LOL!

CM: "Just a minute ... just a minute ... I have no idea what's going o ..."

Often the case.

[Leilani]

34. Wes is the man who should be the nominee!!

I am more convinced than ever, after watching him tonight.

What a waste of talent, intelligence, experience.

The Dems blew it BIG TIME.

[LZ1234]

60. Couldn't agree with you more!

[HuskerDem]

72. Amen Lelani !

Was is STILL the best.

[BootinUp]

73. Hi HuskerDem

Haven't seen ya for a while :hi:

[grasswire]

35. this made me so sad..

..he's everything that Clinton was, and more electable than Kerry. He's just the best, and was at his best tonight. Humble, thoughtful, brilliant.

[TacticalPeek]

42. True, true, true, true, true, true, true.

It's still a long march to August.

:evilgrin:

[seabeyond]

41. all you wes fans.....i have always liked the man too

way back when with clinton. clark has other places he would fit beautifully in the administration, it does not have to just be vp. it would be wonderful to have him as....................?

[BootinUp]

44. Thats true

He has the skills and intelligence to fill a number of roles very well. But Some of us still believe the strongest ticket would have Wes on it. thanks seabeyond. :toast:

[Adelante]

46. I tend to agree with you

Although I might get pounded. :D

I trust that Kerry knows Wes's talents and abilities and won't waste them.

[Leilani]

49. The real tragedy is

that the Democratic party wasted Wes s talents & abilities.

I cannot help it; I am still mad.

John Kerry is a good man, but he is not Wes Clark!

[Adelante]

50. No he's not

But he is the one the voters decided on. I do know how you feel, Leilani. Wes's withdrawal caused me more pain than both my divorces. Believe it. :)

[loudsue]

55. I still don't trust the computerized voting machines

Never have. Never will. Until we get the programming on open source, and have paper ballots, and spot audits.

I'm reading BBV in paper form (I've read it online, but in book form, it's more compelling). I don't trust ANY elections, at this point. Not the primaries. Not the general elections. We just don't know what's going on behind the "green door" anymore.

:kick:

[robbedvoter]

53. Yeah, right. Take it with the pukes in the senate doing the confirmation

I am sure they can't wait for a chance to pay back.

[citizen snips]

63. There is only one problem.

Clark voted for the first Bush.

[Adelante]

65. Link? nt

[Kool Kitty]

68. And?

Your point? (Lots of dems voted for Reagan. Are they any less dems?)

[Scoopie]

69. So what?

Badly-needed independent voters couldn't give one flip about that.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

70. No, he didn't.

He voted for Clinton. Both times. Get your facts straight.

[Jai4WKC08]

71. The first time only

He voted for Bush I in '88, Clinton in '92 and '96.

The end of the Cold War in '91 made the difference. Says he saw that the Repubs had no direction in a post-Soviet world. They couldn't adapt, and wanted to maintain the confrontational, chest-beating, us-or-them attitude toward the nations trying to emerge from Soviet domination.

The world changes. Men like Clark change with it.

Personally, I think maybe the fact that Clinton was a home-boy caused him to listen more closely. And then too, he would have just made his second star before the '92 election. More senior rank gives you a different perspective on the use of military force. Either way, Clark admits to be being moved by Clinton's vision for America and the world.

[Tatiana]

54. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I want my Wes in the White House!!!!!! The Democratic party blew it BIG TIME! Hopefully Kerry will use his brain and pick Wes for VP.

Wes will be Prez one day. I believe that.