Technically America Has gone Fascist.

[Christ was Socialist]

No paranoia, just pure fact. If the chimp is elected again, this will be a full blown fascist state. Now look how much the Us has in common with Other fascist regimes. Scary

The official 14 Chracteristics of Fascism

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military -
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism -
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homo-sexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media -
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security -
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected -
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -(enron)
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections -
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[daveskilt]

5. containment and subversion.

The best way to maintain power is to maintain the illusion of freedom.


Don't blame me I voted for Kodos

[PandaSoft]

7. Not entirely true...

Air America doesn't have that big of a base right now.

Take China for example - they look the other way when small groups of people get together to talk politics/religion/etc. But the moment that group begins expanding or catching too many ears they move in.

I'm sure if Air America was reaching more people (and influencing them against the right) they would find a way to do away with it.

[newyawker99]

45. Hi PandaSoft!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Toots]

8. Slip slip slipping away

:shrug:

[Bread and Circus]

11. Yeah, but their has been attempts to help usher AAR off the air.

Time will tell.

[Christ was Socialist]

34. They will be marginalised like chomsky et al<nt>

[skooooo]

13. it's not 100%....

...but they're working on it

[JanMichael]

18. Franco allowed the Mondragon Cooperative to form then grow.

Not only that they gave them government grants to help them along.

Which is ironic because the founders of Mondragon were rabidly anti-Fascist/Franco.

They play games like that because they want to have examples that they aren't all that bad and also they feal invincible so they really don't care either.

[Minstrel Boy]

23. Fascism isn't necessarily totalitarian.

And this fascism has a sophistication that doesn't require blunt totalitarianism. And don't discount the disinformation value of Americans being able to say, "If this wasn't a free country, you wouldn't be able to say that."

[Solon]

32. The illusion of democracy...

“A world of unseen dictatorship is conceivable, still using the forms of democratic government.”

— Kenneth Boulding
University of Michigan
quoted in The Hidden Persuaders

[indepat]

2. Fourteen for fourteen isn't a bad score

[skooooo]

3. sadly i have to agree...

...i've been thinking the same thing for a few years now.

[BlueEyedSon]

4. Out of curiosity, where do these criteria come from?

thx

[Christ was Socialist]

15. Dr. Lawrence Britt

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm


http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/05/57363.php

[JanMichael]

19. Whoops. Missed this post. Thanks for the clarification.

:-)

[Toots]

6. Gulp!!!!

:scared:

[candy]

9. Reminds me of my youth in the FDR days.

A lot of similiarities.

[skooooo]

14. How so? Please explain!

I would like to hear your point of view...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

40. Maybe you should read these links...

The Corporate Roots of American Fascism
<http://www.mail-archive.com/[e-mail]/msg111789.html>

The Rise of American Fascism
<http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/rise_of_american_fascism.htm>

[Christ was Socialist]

46. thanks i'll check these out<nt>

[BillZBubb]

24. Just which FDR days were those candy man?

[Christ was Socialist]

37. how so i'm curious , it was before my time<nt>

[0007]

53. I was around in those days, depends on what part of the twelve

years your talking about. But I see no similiarties. What do you mean?

[VolcanoJen]

10. Salon has a slightly different take.

Fascinating article on this very subject below; you might need to get a Day Pass to read it:

Who's a fascist?
The ultimate political insult is making a comeback. But does anyone know what it really means?>

[RainDog]

22. I read that article and thought it was very shallow

There are many who have the expertise to discuss fascism, not the one person the writer uses to back up her thesis. She offers no experts who think differently and also have the creds to back it up...so the article, to me, was a whole lot of nothing.

Bertrand Gross' Friendly Fascism has much of interest to say, as well as Chip Berlet essay, What is Fascism.

[SpeakEasy]

12. Sounds just like Cuba

Except for the military section.

[skooooo]

16. Fascists are staunchly anti-communist, anti-socialist..

...so I would beg to differ.

[bigbillhaywood]

57. #8, #9 also do not apply to Cuba. #5 only partially (with regards to gays)

[JanMichael]

17. Is this the list from Free Inquiry, or the Humanist?

Either way I agree that we're awfully close (Maybe not there yet...) to an ugly, ugly, time in History.

[SuffragetteSal]

20. Fascists societies starve their people

and right along with your icon and name I would like to share this from the Old Testament:

Speak out for those who cannot speak,
for the rights of all the destitute.
defend the rights of the poor and needy. (31:8-9 TEV)
and


If you refuse to listen to the cry of the poor,
your own cry will not be heard. (21:13 TEV)

thanks for the post

[RafterMan]

21. Yawn

Those have always been characteristics of the US. Yet people have always run here from elsewhere.

Unless you are suggesting that people naturally prefer fascism...

[Heyo]

25. I respectfully disagree

America has not gone fascist......

It really hasn't...

You still wake up in the morning.. do whatever the hell you want until you go to bed at night..

You live where you want...

You sleep where you want....

You choose what type of career you want....

You come and go as you please......

Don't delude yourself...... it waters down the meaning of the word.

Just my humble opinion


Heyo

[Kathy in Cambridge]

26. So did Germans and Italians

they woke up. they worked. they spent time with their families. they were inundated with propaganda. and they ignored what was going on around them.

sound familiar?

[Heyo]

27. Not really...

...no offense intended my friend...

I don't got for the Nazi/Hitler comparisons. That's not reality.

We vote every four years, as long as it stays that way, that will never happen. (There are a million other reasons it won't happen also.)

:toast:

Heyo

[Kathy in Cambridge]

28. I am not making Nazi/Hitler comparisons

only that people tend to be self-involved, susceptible to propaganda and therefore not always good or willing participants in democracy.

Lucky me, I actually have a Masters in History. My concentration was Europe between the Wars. I never said that we were like Nazi Germany, only that there are similar tactics being employed by the Bush administration to both sway and intimidate people. I suggest you read William Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" and then come back and tell us you don't see ANY similarities.

[daveskilt]

35. another good book - modernity and the holocaust by Bauman

fascism can happen when it is compartmentalized and when people do not take a step or two back to see more than their tiny cog in the machinery.

on edit: In fact, the example of Hitler's Germany only makes it MORE likely that this will occur again (as it has elsewhere just not in a dominant military state - russia was something else entirely) not because germany is a blueprint but because people see it and say it could never happen here and even when the evidence mounts that it is coming (we are not there yet but pointed that way) they refuse to believe it as the cognitive dissonance is so greta between that very real picture of nazi germany and the imagined ideal of the US.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

41. Okay...I'll say it for you...we are rapidly approaching the point of no...

...return in regards to becoming totally Fascist and looking quite a bit like Nazi Germany. IMHO, the parallels are frightening.

I have a BA in History and concentrated primarily on Twentieth Century Russia which gave me a very heavy exposure to the rise and fall of the Third Reich.

[toddzilla]

29. yeah vote all you want..

see what changes..

nothing.

[Minstrel Boy]

31. "We vote every four years...

as long as it stays that way, that will never happen."

Need I remind you, you have a Florida avatar?

[daveskilt]

36. the main reason it could happen is...

that no one really believes it could. its like boiling a frog. put him in the boiling pot and he jumps out, put him in a cold pot and rasie the heat and he will boil

[Mari333]

48. Gore won, we marched, Bush stole the election

voting doesnt mean squat with Diebold and stolen elections.

[Christ was Socialist]

33. In germany they did also

Just look to the point we reached in 4 years

[Paranoid_Portlander]

39. My life is very constricted by legal restraints.

For example, I feel that I no longer have the freedom of long-distance travel, because I refuse to be treated like a criminal at airports. I "own" my body, but there are restrictions all over the place as to what I can ingest.

[serryjw]

47. The Dumbing down of America

I agree with what you say. We still can do all the things you mentioned....BUT lets talk about what we don't have. Can we REALLY hear the truth about what has been going on with our government in the last 15 years(since bush-41)......They are working on a new world order..It does not include you and I. They LET US use the INTERNET because they have done such a good job of marginalizing our opinion. Everyone thinks we are just CT'S. I have been collecting signatures for some state wide ballots in Colorado. It gives me an opportunity to talk to 1000 people a week and still pay the bills. The truth is America really falls into a few categories: 1) 20% whom are still well read and are still liberal 2) 20% whom REALLY do want a Christian Theocracy 3) 10% who are interested but are soooooo confused 4) 50% who don't vote and don't give a sh*t!
Welcome to America!

[serryjw]

49. Dumbing Down Of America

I agree with what you say. We still can do all the things you mentioned....BUT lets talk about what we don't have. Can we REALLY hear the truth about what has been going on with our government in the last 15 years(since bush-41)......They are working on a new world order..It does not include you and I. They LET US use the INTERNET because they have done such a good job of marginalizing our opinion. Everyone thinks we are just CT'S. I have been collecting signatures for some state wide ballots in Colorado. It gives me an opportunity to talk to 1000 people a week and still pay the bills. The truth is America really falls into a few categories: 1) 20% whom are still well read and are still liberal 2) 20% whom REALLY do want a Christian Theocracy 3) 10% who are interested but are soooooo confused 4) 50% who don't vote and don't give a sh*t!

Welcome to America!

[Solon]

30. One thing people don't seem to understand...

We are talking about fascist ideology, techniques differ, like any other political system, the fascism of Italy, Spain, and Germany were all different at the time. We are talking about the early 1930's, not the mid 1940's. If any comparison is to take place, we are at the same stage that Germany was when the Reichstag first caught flame, and the Nuremburg acts were just taking affect. Even with the boldness of Hitler, it still took almost half a decade for him to start the "Final Solution" so we cannot compare ourselves to the Third Reich at the end of the war, but to the one before the start of it. It is even more insidious when some of the worst criminals of that regime were preotected by our government all the way up to this day, and gained power and influence in our government after WWII. Operation Paperclip is a fact, its a conspiracy that is actually true, it included scientists who experimented on humans, spies who hated democracy, and politicians who were at the very heart fascists. Who created the CIA again and what was and is it's influence on both our foriegn and domestic policy?

[Cleita]

43. Very well put. We are at the beginning of a facist state, not the

end. But we still have time to reverse this. Hitler probably would have been stopped after the Reichstag fire if those who should have stopped him would have like British PM Neville Chamberlain.

[Toots]

38. by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates,

This is our biggest concern. Assassination. They are experts at it. think JFK RFK MLK etc. etc.

[Cleita]

42. Worse than that, they are Taliban style facists, spouting

religious idealism every chance they get. I'm just watching Karen Hughes on CNN and she actually mentioned the Almighty in saying that invading Iraq was the right thing to do.

[Dark]

44. I think that

they may have been planning it, but there's no way in hell after Iraqnam that they will be able to exercise enough control over the populace.

[bigbillhaywood]

50. The Devil's Advocate

Okay, so I think I might agree with you on this, but just for sake of argument--

1. Where do these 14 "official" characteritics come from?

2. Might these characteristics constitute fascism based on their degree rather than simply their presence? For example, Bush is an anti-union president, but he has not stooped to mass jailings and executions of union leaders like Mussolini (at least not yet). Also, these characteristics could define several past administrations, not just this one, so by that definition the US has been fascist for a long time.

3. Could there be a more substantive defintion of a fascist state other than an enumeration of that state's characteristics? The typical socialist definition of a fascist state is a bourgoeis democracy that has been forced to drop all pretense of democratic governance due to a crisis in capitalism-- and typically State and Corporate power are merged (a la modern China). Under this definition I'm not sure we live in a fascist state.

4. I think, although I'm not sure, that we live in a state controlled by people who are ideologically fascist. But as they don't have complete political hegemony as of yet, we do not live in a fascist state. I don't think 4 more years of Bush will establish that kind of hegemony, but it may very well be a good step in that direction. Just watch out if he is re-elected, the Repubs gain more seats, and martial law is declared-- then we're fucked.

[bigbillhaywood]

51. If America is going fascist, I predict a split in the Democratic Party

That is, should Bush win again and the Repubs pick up more seats. Actually, a 3-way split:

1. A progressive/radical wing led by the Deans, Kuciniches, and labor unions (maybe only the more progressive unions)

2. A moderate, Clintonite wing (which will go the way of the Dinosaurs)

3. A conservative and politically opportunistic wing which, sensing their own political demise, will defect to the Republicans (Zell Miller, Joe Lieberman, etc.) In fact, I do expect Zell and Joe to defect soon anyways.

[Cleita]

54. It's already happened.

Greens split from the left wing of the Democratic Party.

[bigbillhaywood]

55. A larger split then. And this time the progressive Dem leaders will go too

[Christ was Socialist]

64. Most socialists have left

rank and file socialists have left, thier are to democratic socialists in the democratic party that are in congress

[bigbillhaywood]

52. One last thing, if this US is fascist, what are we going to do about it?

Just voting Democrat is not going to do the trick. I got some ideas, but I'd like to hear what other ideas/strategies people have.

[Codeblue]

60. Revolution

I know most people don't agree based on my post about the subject some time ago, but that's the biggest solution that I have.

What shape that takes I don't yet know, but there needs to be a revolution of some sort before real change will ever happen in this country.

[dpibel]

61. Economic mass action

Ettor said all you have to do is cross your arms. But that was in a day when industry was the blood of the economy.

Now, the blood is moving money. Now, all that is required is to stuff your hands in your pockets.

But first you have to convince enough Americans that they're not living in the fattest possible world. If some large number--not even a majority--of people withdrew from all economic activity outside of necessities it wouldn't take that long before the plutocrats were asking what they wanted.

I've never gotten far with suggesting such ideas. They bring forth a chorus of, "But people would lose their jobs! It would be very hard!!" It seems to do no good to point out that people are already losing their jobs, and, for a great many, it's already very hard.

Thanks to an educational system which teaches that the history of the US is a series of great military victories and industrial triumphs by the far-sighted entrepreneurs of railroads, steel, and autos, Americans have no idea who's really responsible for the relatively cushy life many live. The people who brought you the 40-hour work week, collective bargaining, and other such neat perks lost their jobs, lost their lives, and had a hard time of it. Now Americans take those things for granted, or treat them as the result of the munificence of John D. Rockefeller and Henry Ford who were, after all, the founders of the feast.

I've about come to the conclusion that an economic meltdown is the only thing that's going to peel the veneer for the American masses. And I've long said that, when it happens, Americans will beg for fascism. It'll be the flag-wrapped kind predicted by Huey Long, but it'll be fascism nonetheless. We've got a public primed and ready--their problems aren't caused by CEOs making 300x their wage; they're caused by those...umm...other people. You know...the different ones. That's where the rage is going to be directed. Not at the masters.

Oh. You wanted strategies. Well, at least I suggested a means. I'm utterly at a loss how to implement it.

[Generator]

56. Scary

I wouldn't have normally opened this thread, but it's scary how many apply. Especially the first four. We actually live in a time when we are told that how our free speech is essentially "unpatriotic" or a vote is abetting terrorists.

Either you are with us or against us.

It's a government of manipulation and fear and lies and coverups. Smearing those that don't agree and making disent unpatriotic. If that's fascism, then Bush is exceeding at it.

[LastKnight]

58. yup, this was my opening post on DU months ago...

and we have only gone further down the process since then.

-LK

[Cronus Protagonist]

59. Here's an illustrated fasism test sheet

Fasicm: We Report, You Decide

http://cronus.com/fascism

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[rman]

62. simplified:

Fascism is a particular flavor of despostism, as are tyranny, totalitarianism, dictatorship etc.

Despotism is simply the opposite of democracy.

Any society fits somewhere on a scale going from radical democracy on one end to radical non-democracy on the other end of the scale.

there are four characteristics by which to measure despotism (or lack thereof);

- concentration of political power
- limitation of respect (the extent of 'apartheid')
- economisch unequality (concentration of wealth)
- concentration of control over means of mass communication (the media)

As explained in the educational movie "Despotism", produced by Encyclopaedia Britannica in 1946.
http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=00178
It is as relevant now as it was then.

[No2W2004]

63. Remember these guys?

This angry mob, which successfully stopped the recount in Miami-Dade County during the 2000 election standoff, was portrayed by the media as an uprising by Florida voters.

Here are the identities of the protesters:

1. Tom Pyle, policy analyst, office of House Majority Whip Tom DeLay (R-Tex.).
2. Garry Malphrus, majority chief counsel and staff director, House Judiciary subcommittee on criminal justice.
3. Rory Cooper, political division staff member at the National Republican Congressional Committee.
4. Kevin Smith, former House Republican conference analyst and more recently of Voter.com.
5. Steven Brophy, former aide to Sen. Fred D. Thompson (R-Tenn.), now working at the consulting firm KPMG.
6. Matt Schlapp, former chief of staff for Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.), now on the Bush campaign staff in Austin.
7. Roger Morse, aide to Rep. Van Hilleary (R-Tenn.).
8. Duane Gibson, aide to Chairman Don Young (R-Alaska) of the House Resources Committee.
9. Chuck Royal, legislative assistant to Rep. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.).
10. Layna McConkey, former legislative assistant to former Rep. Jim Ross Lightfoot (R-Iowa) now at Steelman Health Strategies.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

65. A psych study concluded in 1950 that an 'Authoritarian Personality led to

being receptive to fascism. After suffering Franco, Mussolini, and Hitler ,psychology researchers wanted to find out how the hell people could do that shit.

They came up with a profile of a population that is fearful and propagandized. Sound familar?

Here. Take the Fascism Repetivity test to find your 'F' factor:
http://www.anesi.com/fscale.htm

Then read this psychological profile of Bush* that concludes he has this dreaded Authoritarian Personality, along with most Christian Fundamentalists.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1033904,00.html

Ladies and gentleman, we are up to our necks in fascism coming from the neocon Dominionist power structure and our own Fallow Merkins!