What the Dem's must Overcome to win in Nov. ....... "God"........

[opihimoimoi]

Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Oral, Benny Hinn, etc etc etc will combine in the Christan Coalition to present a bloc of votes just as they did in the past...never mind all of Bushes transgressions with Sanity.

Most of the other core Republicans will follow suit. But many will not vote or jump ship as unhappy Pub Campers who realized they got "Had".

But the Fundies, they don't see Reason and Truth, they see what their Preacher Man tells them. It is this Force we Dem's will reckon with. Of course we can do it but it will be a Hell(pardon the Pun) of a battle.

We are dealing with people who will not relent, give in, surrender. Even if God came down and told us to vote for Kerry, the Fundies would not lister to Her and still vote for Bush. Did I just say that?

Come, we go gird, sharpen your spears.

[question everything]

1. why bother?

We should concentrate on independent and on the true Republicans who believe in balanced budget and small government and who, like Bush Sr. believe in separation of state and church.

[Arianrhod]

2. Bush Sr

believed that atheists cannot be citizens.

[opihimoimoi]

4. Sorry, did not mean to imply we try to make the Fundie sheep see the light

but rather find ways to contend with them and to minimize damage.

[question everything]

5. Back to the Constitution and the federalist papers (I think)

about the separation of church and state

or.. asking which god, or whose god?

First they said Christian, then they said protestants, then they said, what, southern methodist?

[opihimoimoi]

8. The Sheep are being used and they don't even know it. Pawns is

whot they are.

[NMDemDist2]

3. interesting study here

<snip >
"In general, the importance of religion has been declining in the developed world," says Inglehart, "whereas in countries experiencing economic stagnation and political uncertainty, religion has remained strong."

The collapse of religion in Northern European countries is particularly striking, he observes. Not only has weekly church attendance plunged, but Latin American countries are now sending missionaries to save the souls of their former colonizers.

Why America is an exception to this global trend is uncertain, although Inglehart suggests several possible explanations. Religion could be a legacy of America's frontier mentality, in which a strong sense of faith was necessary in order to brave the unknown. It could also have a more contemporary cause: a social welfare system less developed than those in most Nordic or European countries <snip>

http://www.umich.edu/~newsinfo/Releases/1997/Dec97/r121097a.html

i would be interested in some newer numbers tho

[brainoverload]

6. Other causes

Or it could be a result of centuries of bigotry. When all else fails one can always justify his or her bigotry in the name of religion.

Or it could be a result of a country where about half of the public school systems allow themselves to instruct their faculty to withhold facts from their students lest they upset the "moral" majority in their community.

Or it could be the result of a dysfunctional welfare system and dysfunctional penal system that to this day creates a large population whose only hope of a better life is rooted in Salvation.

[opihimoimoi]

7. The Masses are held in check by Ignorance, Zealotry, and Passion

Thinking is not allowed, ie, "judge not..."

Questions are detested as vermin.....unpatriotic, unAmerican

We need a better system, period.

[opihimoimoi]

9. Religion in America is Consumerism gone wild. It is a mega business

nothing less.

The churches are all making handsome profits. Many Wannabee churches waiting in the wings for their turn. The Product??, why Heaven of course.

The Control of the sheep by their Parsons is about complete. Now that the Fundies have linked to the Pubs, its even worse. A coalition, these guys have enormous power.

We have to overcome this somehow.

[Ardee]

17. What do you think of your fellow Americans?

Do you truly believe them to be sheep? That a small, and make no mistake the fundies are a very small, minority of us can have such great influence over our decision making must have a root cause.

They (fundies and right wingers)have worked diligently to frame our political debate, to sway our media and thus influence our citizenry.The strategies proposed to defeat this coalition seem to focuss upon convincing a small (10-20%) of swing voters who share some but not all of the right wings philosophy. That strategy seems to say,"vote for me, I am like Bush but not like Bush.

The voters to whom this strategy is aimed told us all, in the mid term elections, that they will vote for the original rather than the copy, yet the same strategies prevail today.I ,for one, prefer to succeed or fail on the courage of my convictions, as did Mary Landrieu
who preferred to speak her truth as she saw it, thus losing all DLC support, yet she triumphed when some who adopted DLC policies lost miserably.

You wish to overcome the cabal of fundies and right wingers and that is a good thing. But you seek to elevate them to the level of comic book villany, to make them appear so powerful and sinister that defeat of them is somehow a great challenge, an almost insurmountable obstacle.Pshaw, Opi, pshaw it is neither.

For year now the Democratic Party has failed to speak to its roots, to that which made it a great party indeed. In fact a case can be made that the so-called opposition party has failed to oppose at all.I proclaim loudly that I have great faith in the American people to make the correct decisions if given the facts. Where the hell are those giving them this choice? They are too busy putting their heads up the proverbial corporate ass thats where they are!

[opihimoimoi]

19. And to add to the end of your reply, which I thank you and admire,

Where the hell are our Dem People? Just when we need them? To Tell us what we need to hear, to lead us, to guide and inspire us? Very few and far between. The Dem Party is not like the Pub Party..they having a weak game plan that they must come together for the "Sell". Our Dem Party is strong in Philosophy but weak in in describing/selling it to our people being more fragmented than the Pubs.

All in all, we have about the same percentage of voters but its the Fundies that help the Pubs prevail.... they do make a diff.

I wish America has sniffed the coffee and used some Visine but I have yet to see a let down of Fundie influence

Come, we eat ice cream/pie

[Ardee]

23. Opi, you are a grand fellow to be sure

but I am on a rather strict diet and must, perforce, decline your generous offer....Where indeed are the Dems, where have they been for years now, since the Clinton established DLC took over th eparty they have been silent to progressives and most accomodating to corporations.

[doni_georgia]

18. You're right about that

Churches market themselves nowadays and there is an entire Christian business for marketing churches. Mega Churches are popping up all over the place. They provide entertainment on Sunday morning to appeal to people who would not be drawn to a traditional church. The services feature up-beat contemporary music, skits, video clips, dance, and a short "relative" sermon. Many of these mega churches have cafes such as the "Solid Rock Cafe" at a local megachurch near my home - a take off on the "Hard Rock Cafe." Others have coffee houses where they serve lattes, and such. It's a big business. I left a church that decided to go with this trend. It was sickening! All programming was considered on how it would play. The morning services were highly choreographed so as to look spontaneous - even raising of hands and falling to knees was choreographed by the worship leader. It was a big farce and people were falling for it left and right. We got out. I couldn't stand it. After 9/11 they did a number of "patriotic themed" services, including playing video clips of the twin towers falling while soloists sang. It thoroughly disgusted me! We had started going to that church because it was small, close to our house, and considered fairly liberal by local standards. All that changed when they decided to "jump in the river." UGH! I get naseated just thinking about it!

[opihimoimoi]

20. and worse, its contagious and its gone wild..... thus my concern

[jsw_81]

10. We have beaten them in the past

Remember their sick gay-bashing, Bible-thumping convention in 1992? The American people don't like it when the fundies go too far. I have a feeling that they (the fundies) will make the same mistake this fall.

[opihimoimoi]

13. Yes, I do. Gives us hope. However, today is worse than it was

The Fundies will go all out for Bush. I just hope what you mentioned comes true once more.

[bobbieinok]

15. in 92 Buchannon spoke at repub conv abt 'culture war' - NOT IN 2000

The same 'beliefs' were/are in the repub party.

BUT RNC learned in 92 -

...don't let public get the blunt message in prime time - you scare people

...separate Buchannon from repubs - run as 'compassionate conservatives'

Many people will NOT MAKE THE CONNECTION.

It's one thing for the repubs to say it bluntly and in prime time.

If democrats say it, it's 'just politics,' 'the democrats will say anything to get elected.'

In 92, the 'religious right' were the attackers.

NOW they 'play the victims' successfully - with the message concealed and many 'sympathetic to the victim.'

[opihimoimoi]

16. Scary man, Scary. The Fundies will be coming out of the woodwork and

forests for this one. They smell Roe/Wade being overturned. Nothing else matters. Maybe Gay Marriage but its the Big Prize of Abortion Rights being outlawed they consider the big Enchilada.

[caledesi]

11. This is such a "straw man" because 95% of the house and senate

are Christians. Did you hear that Georgie?

[bigtree]

12. We know they support swords . . .

. . . but, do they support plowshares?

[opihimoimoi]

14. Beating those swords into plowshares takes heat

Do we have the HEAT for it? That is the Question,,,,,and forget about using them tanks to pull the plows, very poor milage and much to costly to build.

[Dark]

21. Start a crusade!

Those fundies will gladly travel to Iraq to "convince" the populace that Jesus saves. The uprising will be quelled and the Fundies will be out of our hair. Two birds with one stone.

[opihimoimoi]

22. Unfortunately, Bush let them Fundies in and now its a competition between

the Christans and the Moslems, AKA the HOLY WAR. From protecting their Homeland, the Arabs now see they must protect their Religion.

We have not yet to see the results of Bush and his Misadventures.

In a sense, we Humans must soon reduce our population due to limited resources.... but to use WAR? A simplistic answer with dire consequences.