We must spread the word about suicidal American funamentalism

[Lefergus70]

Have a look at this report <http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/print.cgi?file=/views04/0420-03.htm> from the Guardian of Britain on the intensity and the power of American fundamentalism in Texas and how "true believers" not only lust for war but for Armageddon so they can enter "Rapture".

The subject is not new for readers of Progressive sites, but this Guardian report, made by outsiders, takes on a special, frightening dimension. British readers must be astonished to see the level of supersition and primitive thinking in the U.S. And, above all, its eagerness for genocide.

Most disconcerting of all, I believe, is that the average American is completely unaware of this fundamentalist movement. I know that many of my relatives in the U.S. haven't a clue; they don't even know what "right wing" means. Perhaps we need a "60 Minutes" report to spread the news.

My suggestion is to force the issue to the level of national debatewith polls that ask, for example, "Are you in favor of killing all Palestinians so that Christian and converted Jews can go to heaven?" Am I nuts? Who would answer a question like that? But how would you phrase this stuff in order to see what the public's view is? It is so surreal and dangerous that it maybe it defies any logical approach.

[BlueEyedSon]

1. Sort of explains Bush's foreign policy, no?

[Solon]

2. They seem to have an extremly black and white view of the world.

I find it frightening, when I see them on message boards, they will not hesitate to label anyone who disagrees with them as "Anti-Christian". Even if that person is a Christian themselves, they do not consider them such. Only thier version of Christianity is valid, and they have no clue as to what affect their policies would have on the rest of the world. Look at this post from another message board that covers religion and politics.

Here is the post:


Vistronic
9/23/03 1:35 AM 1 out of 160

I thought it would be interesting to extrapolate on the idea of a Christian "Fundy" Taliban in the USA.

Is this the valid conclusion to my arguments for a Christian nation that I have put forth on the Christian Country thread? I wonder?

Also I think as a somewhat "Fundy" I can bring some fuel for the "fire".


The Fundamental Orders.

1. Amendment to establish Christianity as state Religion.

2. Religious Freedom is allowed "official" but all sects must register so the "others" can be accounted for.

3. 10 commandments and selective Old testament laws are adapted as moral code in state and school.

4. Laws are passed to help reinforce these moral codes.

5. The state religion Christianity is now taught at all school levels. Prayer and Pledge are mandatory.

6. All Science that disregards the Bible must be reinterpreted to align to Bible.

7. All "disrupter's of order" must be corrected. Since prison is to harsh for this rehabilitation centers are established.

8. Free speech is allowed except in regards to taking the Lords name in vain and trashing the Bible.



I think that would about cover the basics.
Vis.

This guy is a TRUE BELIEVER in this, and there are quite a few out there like him, in fact they make up *'s base. I find that frightening, and wonder as to the real consequences of thier agenda.

Look at the responses to this message here:

http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?boardID=430&discussionID=290919

[TreasonousBastard]

4. What is even more frightening than this...

is the large number of people I've run into who don't consider themselves fundies, but see little wrong with most of this.

I had a long-running argument online a while back with someone who objected to my use of the term "Christian Taliban." She considerded herself quite enlightened, and politicially libertarian, and was not by any means a fundie herself, but could not accept the concept of Christianity in any form being oppressive.

It just seemed perfectly natural to her to have Christianity intertwined with government. No big deal at all. Not like some other religions that get involved with government.

And, it was amazing to see how many people backed her up. Mostly other self-proclaimed libertarians.

[ikojo]

12. I have a theory as to why so few challenge fundie

ideology....and it dates back to my days on AOL.

There was a LONG running thread on a Jewish message board that went something like this:
Why is Christian synonomous with good as in..

oh that was a very Christian thing to do...this has a different meaning to MOST Americans than if someone said...

Oh that was a very JEWISH or MUSLIM thing to do....

How do you think (and be honest here) most Americans would interpret each of the above thoughts.

I am of the belief that "oh that was a very Christian thing to do" would be interpreted as someone was kind and went out of their way to assist another.

"Oh that was a very JEWISH thing to do" would be interpreted as..the person on the receiving end being screwed out of or ripped off of something in a business transaction.

Christians are viewed as being purveyors of peace and love. They think that if CHRISTIANS are involved in anything then it must be for the GOOD of ALL. Jews, OTOH, are seen as being only interested in things that serve their own group interest.

OK flame away folks. I wont be here much today anyway....Going to an Israeli Independence day thing at the J. Or I may do the Earth Day thing, I am not sure....

[Mari333]

6. They try a Fundy Taliban on me

and they will get an assfull of Buckshot.
American women wont let it happen, not the ones I know.
We will shoot them.

[doni_georgia]

11. Look what Pat Robertson said about Episcopalians, Methodists and

Presbyterians:

The 700 Club, January 14, 1991; "You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions but I don't have to be nice to them"

[Christ was Socialist]

18. Dubya is a methodist and jeb a catholic <nt>

[Jacobin]

3. I listen to these dingbats on Fundie radio where I live

They are truly out of their goards.

When I attempt to tell others about what the Fundie goals are and what they believe, they look at me like I'm crazy.

Guess they'll have to find out the hard way.

[LittleApple81]

5. If they re-broadcast the L.A. Book Fair events, please watch this:

I watched it on repeat around 1 a.m. this morning on C-Span 2:

Panel: The Seduction of War

Anthony Swofford, "Jarhead: A Marine's Chronicle of the Gulf War and Other Battles"
Chris Hedges, "War is a Force That Gives Us Meaning"
James Hillman, "A Terrible Love of War"
Leo Braudy, "From Chivalry to Terrorism: War and the Changing Nature of Masculinity"
Samantha Power, "'A Problem from Hell': America and the Age of Genocide"—Moderato

IT WAS ABSOLUTELY GREAT.
Then they had Chalmers who wrote "The Sorrows of Empire" on the phone-in section of the program.
PLEASE DO NOT MISS IT IF THEY REPEAT THIS.

[indepat]

7. That's Chalmers Johnson?

[LittleApple81]

8. Yes. it is. n/t

[napi21]

14. I watched it TWICE!

The firt time, I heard what they all had to say, but really wanted to listen again to make sure what I originaly heard wasn't distorted in my mind. It wasn't

The greatest statement was made by Johnson when he called Bush "The Boy Emperor of Crawford"! His book is "Empire of Sorrows".

[doni_georgia]

9. Yep, these people are here in Georgia too

Thing is there are two eschatological viewpoints who are seemingly polar opposites, but who are working together to bring about the return of Jesus through political means.

There are the premillenialists - most notably the dispensationalists who believe like Tim LaHay that events will unfold like in the Left Behind books. These folks believe in a literal 7 year tribulation and that believers will be raptured out either before (pre-trib), during (mid-trib), or after (post-trib) that tribulation. They believe things will get worse and worse until things are so bad Jesus has to come back.

Then you have the postmillenialists - these are the Kingdom Now/Dominionists/Theonomists/Christian Reconstructionists. They believe that THEY will usher in the return of Jesus by converting the world to Christian rule. They believe that certain conditions must be met for Christ's return (namely the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem and the conversion of most of the world to Christianity). Some of these people believe in a rapture of true believers, others believe that the wicked will be caught up and removed. Still some do not focus on a rapture at all.

Both of these groups have MAJOR influence in the Republican party today. According to the Dictionary of Christianity in America: "Since the 1970s, millenial movements have had a new lease on life. Dispensationalism had a surge in popularity thanks to the writings of Hal Lindsey, whose Late Great Planet Earth (1970) was the decade's best selling book, and its acceptance by Ronald Reagan, whose foreign policy, his opponents feared, was greatly influenced by dispensationalism's view of a fast-approaching Armaggedon. Likewise postmillenialism had a revival in segments of American evangelicalism in the Reconstructionist movement. . . Though Reconstructionists tend to be nebulous about their political program, they align themselves with the New Christian Right." (p.400).

[krkaufman]

10. Scary

I started from sleep this morning with a very similar thought racing through my head...

At what point does a religion crossover to cult? The Christian Fundy concept of The Rapture isn't a far cry from the short-lived Hale Bopp cult.

I was also thinking, what would happen if we asked our Republican friends the following question?: "If you are currently inclined to vote for * this Fall, what event or knowledge would it take for you to switch your vote to someone else?"

I gotta believe that some might have an epiphany when confronted by their own initial response of "Nothing could cause me to vote against *."

[Sparkly]

13. Very

This is just one of the things people need to remember when they hear there's "no difference" between the Republican and Democratic parties.

[walmartsucks]

19. To be fair

We on the left have our fair share of fundies as well. ELF and other fringe groups that want to destroy civilization so we can go back to being hunter/gatherers and be one with Mother Earth.

[Texican]

15. They Love to Kill

It isn't just Bush, although I bet that he masturbates over photos of the innocents that he has killed. I live in the middle of the Fundie belt and they just love that we are killing foreigners, and anyone else that is not as "moral" as they. There is virtually no point in trying to talk to them in a sane and reasoned way about the morality of their beliefs and actions. Eventually they will all just throw up their hands and tell you that they are doing "god's will" by murdering innocent women and children. They actually get all excited about their murders and love it that noncombatants are being killed. I have known three mass murderers and they remind me of them. I can't see the difference between Fundies and the Taliban.

[opihimoimoi]

16. Its these Fundies that will pick up the swords for the Pubs and go

forth with the election effort. Scary

[Lefergus70]

17. Getting back to my original message,

I'm still wondering if TV is missing an opoportunity to shake the nation with a report of what our Taliban really believe in. I mean, do most Americans really want to die for those fanatical beliefs? They should at least be aware of them,

[opihimoimoi]

20. Ed Zachery, I suspect, consumerism being what it is, they will soon hop on

this aspect.

If its a "Story" they will sell it. This is a market driven thing we live in. Anything for long term ratings. Up till the present, they been selling Bushes story. Now that its on the wane, evidenced by plummeting numbers, the media will soon look for the new STORY of the Day.

If the media has any smarts, they will weave this Fundy thing into the National debate. Not wanting to piss off regular Christans, they will be very careful. Its a touchy subject for sure but not off limits if they play it smart. Besides, its time for Courage to playout what seems to be so wrong.

[Christ was Socialist]

21. Some info on the movements

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/cor/dominion.htm

here is a snip (very small)


Dominion Theology/Kingdom Now/Reconstructionism
Blessing or Curse?*
- There is a movement about that is casting a long shadow for its size. It is known as Reconstructionism, Kingdom Now theology, Theonomy, and/or Dominion theology, and it is a curious blend of Reformed/Calvinist theology and Charismatic influence. While there are relatively few who would call themselves reconstructionists, a number of the movement's ideas have infiltrated the thinking and actions of many professing believers, often without them knowing it. The movement is led by such theologians as Rousas J. Rushdoony; Gary North; Ray Sutton; Greg Bahnsen (deceased); David Chilton, and by Charismatic leaders such as Earl Paulk. But their ideas are often reflected by non-reconstructionists such as Pat Robertson, D. James Kennedy, John Whitehead, Franky Schaeffer, and Jerry Falwell.

- Dominion theology (the belief-system behind the Reconstructionist movement) teaches that through the coming of Christ the believer has dominion over every area of life. We are now in the Kingdom of God (note the similar view of the Kingdom that the Vineyard movement takes, as well as the plethora of Christian songs being written implying that we are in the Kingdom at the present time), and as a result, we should be reigning with Christ over the earth (as Rev. 5:10 says). The question is when will we reign. If the Kingdom is on earth now, then we should have dominion now, so say the Dominionists. Many of us non-reconstructionists proclaim this same thought when we sing the popular Charismatic song "Majesty" (written by hyper-charismatic Jack Hayford), which invites us to "Come glorify Christ Jesus, the King" -- after all, "Kingdom authority flows from His throne unto His own." With this authority from the King, we are to reclaim the earth for Christ, not just spiritually, but socially, economically (it is no accident that one of the Reconstructionists' organizations is called "The Institute for Christian Economics"), and politically. The dominion of the earth is accomplished not only through prayer and evangelism, but through political process and social reformation. Christ will not (and cannot) return to earth until the church has accomplished this task, so say the dominionists.

- Dominion theology is predicated upon three basic beliefs:

(a) Satan usurped man's dominion over the earth through the temptation of Adam and Eve;
(b) The Church is God's instrument to take dominion back from Satan; and
(c) Jesus cannot or will not return until the Church has taken dominion by gaining control of the earth's governmental and social institutions.

More specifically, what does Dominion Theology (DT) teach? Here are the highlights:

(a) The Old Testament (OT) Law is our rule of life for today. Although DT teaches that keeping of the Law is not a condition for salvation, it is a condition for sanctification. (However, some of the COR's official statements appear to specifically condition salvation upon OT Law-keeping!);

(b) In addition, the OT Law is to govern over society as well. Since we are called to subdue the earth (Gen. 1:28), DT teaches that God's Law should rule (or dominate) all aspects of society. This view is known as Theonomy (or God's law), and is described by Greg Bahnsen as: "The Christian is obligated to keep the whole law of God as a pattern for sanctification and that this law is to be enforced by the civil magistrate" (Theonomy, p. 34). This would mean that Christians would be obligated to keep the whole OT Law except in a case in which the New Testament (NT) explicitly cancels a command, such as the sacrificial system;