The handmaid's tale will soon be prophecy not fiction

[Christ was Socialist]

This book should be read by all women and liberals in general. Considering the religious right in the book came to power, after congress was attacked. And in light of general tommy franks (scumbag) saying after a few drinks, that the constituion will not survive a wmd attack because people will want to feel secure and advocate a millitary rule. Even news max covered it

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/11/20/185048.shtml



The Handmaid's TALE
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/038549081X/qid=1082917878/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-0804812-0655929

In a startling departure from her previous novels ( Lady Oracle , Surfacing ), respected Canadian poet and novelist Atwood presents here a fable of the near future. In the Republic of Gilead, formerly the United States, far-right Schlafly/Falwell-type ideals have been carried to extremes in the monotheocratic government. The resulting society is a feminist's nightmare: women are strictly controlled, unable to have jobs or money and assigned to various classes: the chaste, childless Wives; the housekeeping Marthas; and the reproductive Handmaids, who turn their offspring over to the "morally fit" Wives. The tale is told by Offred (read: "of Fred"), a Handmaid who recalls the past and tells how the chilling society came to be. This powerful, memorable novel is highly recommended for most libraries. BOMC featured alternate. Ann H. Fisher, Radford P.L., Va

[7th_Sephiroth]

1. so basically

in this book, america becomes afghanistan in the way it treats women

[Christ was Socialist]

2. it's more than that

Its a vieled critique of religious fundamentalism, the literary vehicle is the 1st person perspective an the oppression women. But when (if) you read it, pay attetnion to her flashbacks of the world before, when she was a child. It speaks of anti abortion rallies etc and pornography, and the SLOW rise of fundamentalism, It's actually a little better and more specific than 1984

[Cleita]

4. I saw a movie recently based on it.

Very scary. I must make a point of reading it soon.

[Scairp]

30. Oh man, you MUST read the book

That movie completely stank and was little more than a caricature of the novel. The novel is very chilling and not at all like that ridiculous movie.

[Cleita]

33. I'll check to see if my library has it.

If not I'm sure I'll scare up a copy somewhere.

[Iceburg]

44. Of course your name will go on "the list" if you do that.

Better to pay cash at a bookstore.

[Cleita]

59. I don't care.

I'm probably on a dozen lists already. One of the perks of being old is that your obstinacy is often put down to your being a crank.

[Iceburg]

60. Just Kiddin' Cleita ....

I am Canadian and we grew up on Marget Atword. It's required reading from junior high onward.

[Iris]

52. It's still in print.

You can get it most anywhere, except maybe Walmart.

[Athame]

36. I agree with that

READ the book. Scariest book I ever read, and that was years before this administration. Personally, I don't know how anyone could even understand the movie if they had not read the book.

I still think of it every time I use my ATM card.

[mandyky]

42. The movie wasn't that bad

I saw it once, 10 years or more ago, and it still haunts me. I need to read the book though.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

48. I didn't think the movie was that bad either.

I can see why people thought it did not do justice to the book, but maybe it was a difficult book to make into a movie. I rented it a long time ago and found it interesting and entertaining. I liked Robert Duvall and Faye Dunaway as the religious kooks, they are both good at being creepy.

[libertad]

53. Margaret Atwood got the idea for the book after visiting there.

I heard an interview on NPR where she was discussing the book.

[Liberal Gramma]

3. Worse than the Stepford Wives,

I read A Handmaid's Tale years ago and found it to be an illuminating tale of oppression and religious hypocrisy, rather like we are witnessing today on the Religious Right.

[newyawker99]

5. Hi Liberal Gramma!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Athame]

38. Greetings and welcome, Liberal Gramma

from Radical Ma. :hug: Maybe I will grow more liberal when I become a Gramma. Glad to have you aboard.

[Mari333]

6. Women in the US need to arm themselves

Im not kidding. Every woman I know should arm themselves with rifles, shotguns, and whatever else it takes to fend these assholes off. The only thing these men respect is guns, so women need to own them in droves.
If every woman in Afghanistan had an AK 47 and knew how to use it, she could kick some fundie butt.
Women in the US will not stand back and let a bunch of limpdicked religious fascists mess around with them/
Time to arm ourselves ladies, with the truth, and if we have to, with our own guns.
They come to bother us, we blow their ass away.

[Cleita]

8. I don't really like having guns around.

We need to stand together as a population and not let them do this. Women need to make themselves independent of men economically as much as possible in today's sexist societies. Any woman, whose brother, father or husband treats her like a servant or worse needs to be able to kick them out of her house or if she must leave, have a place to go to.

There is another DUer here who takes in battered women. Those who can, should open their homes to take in less fortunate women and their children. It's only by sticking together that we can do this. Guns only accelerate hostilities.

[Mari333]

9. Maybe so but if Afghan women had them now

they could take off those burquas and blow away quite a few assholes.
If anyone messes with me, I would. I wouldnt hesitate to blow them away if they told me I had to cover my head. This country is loaded, especially where I live, with these kinds of cults. They tried to force a biblical law ordinance in our city council! If I hadnt called them and told them all I would sue their sorry asses with the ACLu they might have gotten away with it.
They are creeping into small towns all over the goddamn place.
Hell yes, I would shoot them if they come on my property and tell me how to live my life.
In a heartbeat.

[Cleita]

20. If they kill you, you can't fight for anything.

I admire your gutsiness and maybe it's a solution for you, but not for me and I daresay many other women. I still think financial independence is the key. Do you notice how in societies like Afghanistan, the men make it hard for the women to work or for girls to go to school to force women to be dependent on the men. Then they tie it up in a religious package to force guilt on the women if they dare to object.

[Malva Zebrina]

22. but these women like their burqua

they know nothing else. It assures them of their place in their society and that is stabilizing.
It is the same thing as women in this country, insisting that women have forced pregnancies. Theu fail to recognize their involvement in subjugating women to the whims of men who are in power.

These American right to life women, are traitors to their own sex.

They would have their sisters die, rather than have them be in control of their own lives and their own body because they think they will go to a hell after they die if they do not villify their sisters who can see truth.

They actually hate their own sex and their own sisters.

And why? Because they are stupidly weak--because they want the approval of men? Because they believe the Pope can tell them what to do with their own body and because they also think that a stupid ,insane president, who is NOT a Pope even, who was not elected by the people, can tell them what to do with their own body and will try to force a pregnancy upon them under the guise of a government.

No way.

:eyes:


These women, who know not any sense of their own being,and are pathetically dependant upon others, mostly men, will continue to think their place is under the authority of men who will determine for them what they MUST do with their bodies--and forced pregnancy is what the hierophants and the men who would want to subjugate women and who are acutually afraid of women's blood, want the women to do

Further, they buy into the schlep that motherhood is the highest a woman can achieve in their short life here on earth.

That does it!

Becoming a mother is sainthood!

Once achieved a woman has satisfied her position in society--you know, the society that is determined by the men who are fearful of woman's blood. That one.

The pathetic women, in this case, do not wear burquas, they just have given up their souls to the hierophants and the men that they have subjugated themselves to--the men who would have it that they, the men are in control over the bodies of women anc have the right to force women to pregnancy.

[Mari333]

27. I know women who dont like the burqua

they left Iran when the fundies there took over..I met one woman, whose sister poured gasoline on herself and died, rather then allow herself to be forced to wear a burqua.
I agree, right wing women sold out...the Karen Hughes and Condi Rice's of the world. They sold out for power.
I just told my husband
"if Bush gets back in, Im leaving the country. You can either come with me or stay here. Im not staying."
He said
"Im with you."
Thats all there is to it. I wont stay.

[Malva Zebrina]

28. I know where you live

and it is not far from the Canada border. You and your husband and any others, are welcome to come to my house here in Maine, which is about a four hour drive from the Canada border to stay for a few days. I will welcome you and your husband and would honor your stay as will many here who have protested the policies of Bush. We are many with many spare rooms I am sure.

[Mari333]

31. Canada is hard to get into I hear

but oh thank you so much. I need to know I have options. I wish I knew someone overseas, who could help me out. France, Germany, even Mexico makes sense these days.

[noonwitch]

51. Not if you have a boat and come from Michigan

Lots of unprotected rural coastlines on both sides of the border.

[Mari333]

54. really! I am 4 hours from Canada

I guess I could just drive over to Windsor, rent a place, and tell them "I need refugee status"
I would assume they would give me a break if I begged them on my hands and knees.

[Athame]

37. Except that one of the most disturbing ideas in the Handmaid's Tale

is that the men who loved the women, their husbands, fathers, sons, turned against them "for their own protection" just like in Afghanistan, where once women were doctors, lawyers, and university professors and where it took less than a decade for all of that equality and respect to disappear.

This is also what happened during the witch craze, the burning times--the men tried to protect their women by playing into the hands of the inquisitors.

Would you be able to shoot your own beloved husband and stepson, Mari?

[Iceburg]

46. That's what happened in Rawanda

husbands killed their wifes and children. It can happen in the US too -- in fact it does happen ...70 - 80% of the women murdered in the US are killed by their current or former husbands/partners.

[Syrinx]

10. theoretically...

I wonder what would be the reaction if I posted about "dry-pussied religious fascists?" You know, like Schafly...

Just wondering.

[Catshrink]

15. It isn't about sex, it's about power.

[FizzFuzz]

26. I think its ironic

that your sig is a quote from Ghandi...but it sure is infuriating enough to make you want to go ballistic. I agree too, that if the women of Afg had guns, they could have protected themselves...yet, for all the Fundie-militia-NRA crap heads who scream about the right to protect themselves from hostile government, what exactly do you think would happen to women who followed that reasoning? Men believe its their inalienable right to protect themselves and will band together to do so, but women who try to are usually on their own.

[Mari333]

32. I know I know

but I live in the USA/ seems like the only thing a republican GOP man in this country who tries to take my rights away will respect is a .357 magnum pointed at his face . I live in a GOP area. Thats all they will respect.

[lapislzi]

50. That is such an interesting question

A little off-topic, but very valid, I think.

When is the armed struggle justified? This question has great resonance for me personally because I lived in South Africa during the end of the apartheid era and voted in the first election. As much as I admire Nelson Mandela the man, I could not bring myself to vote for him because during the entire period of apartheid, the ANC never renounced the armed struggle. Some think liberation could have come more quickly had they renounced violence, but they never did.

I guess the threshold varies from individual to individual, depending on circumstances. But it is a valid question: at what point does one say, "Enough is enough."

Gandhi and King never did, but I don't know if I'm quite that virtuous.

[havocmom]

7. think about this novel every time you use a Diebold ATM

In the novel, women find their money locked away from them overnight. This is done by simply making the banking computers not allow access to any accounts held by women. Instantly, all women are completely beholden to men for their survival.

Keep that in mind. Dieblod makes ATMs which produce paper records of transactions yet claims they cannot make voting machince which will do the same. If you have extra $$, might consider oilcloth and a coffee can buried somewhere for some of it.

[NashVegas]

29. Oh Yeah

Years ago, just after I read the book, I moved to a different state, and for months refused to open a bank account. Then, when debit cards came out, I resisted for another 4 years.

[saracat]

11. And isn't it interesting

that the country we felt the need to "liberate" was one of the most progressive in terms of womens rights? Iraq even had a women scientist in Saadams cabinet, the notorious Dr. Death.Who by the way couldn't even make it into our deck of playing cards. Logically she should have been first on the hit list as she is probably the only one with the potential to know the status of the WMDS, as she was the one developing them.But, hey, she was only a women to the US. The Information Minister ranked higher.

[Th1onein]

12. I read that book........it IS chilling.....and very possible.

[JanMichael]

13. It's the blueprint for TODAY and it was written in 1986.

I read that she used US Christian Reconstructionists as the basis for her bad guys.

How utterly accurate.

[SarahB]

14. In moderate ways in society, it is here already

Perhaps not to an extreme like in The Handmaid's Tale (I've read it), but paths leading down this road.

First, you have the issue of adequate birth control and access to it (not to mention insurance overage for those few who are fortunate enough to have insurance).

Secondly, you have issue to access to abortion. In many parts of this country, simply wanting an abortion is not enough because there may be no place within a 50 miles radius exists to get one.

There are also issues to access to education. The current (mis)administration has massively reduced availability of pell grants and other educational grants. Hard to get an education and improve your lot in life in you can't pay for it (kind of hard for single moms)?

There's also the issue of the overhaul of the welfare system (AKA the great Clintonian compromise of the mid-90's). The average woman on welfare was caucasion, with 2 children, and on for two years. The horrendous media portrayal of those who utilize social services as one of those people of a non-white persuasion who have 8 kids and spend 20 years driving Cadillacs and milking the system was a fallacy in most cases as served as wedge to increase racism and end a social safety net as we knew (not that it was that great compared with other countries).

So here we are now with limited access to birth control and abortion (the shear demonization of abortion by religious groups as well), less access to education, and less access to social safety nets. Add to this a minimum wage which isn't a living wage and overinflated costs of housing, you see women in this very country without options.

[Athame]

40. There's also the Defense of Marriage Act and earlier

the elimination of the so-called Marriage penalty in income taxes.
They are moving ever closer to declaring the man the rightful head of the family and little by little removing assumed rights of individuals, especially women.

[terrya]

16. As I recall from the book....

How the United States turned into the Republic of Gilead was due to a national emergency. There was anarchy in the country...and the ultra-right wing fundementalists used that emergency to gain control. It started gradually...all forms of pornography was stamped out. Abortion clinics were shut down and doctors performing abortions were rounded up. And gays and lesbians were targeted, as well. Gay bars were shut down, as well as any gay organizations. Homosexuality in any form was prohibited, with gays and lesbians rounded up and killed.

"The Handmaid's Tale" scared the hell out of me, because it IS entirely plausible.

This book should be required reading, IMO.

[SarahB]

17. We toxified ourselves

In the book if I remember correctly, there was so much pollution and other assorted junk, that the majority of people (and more women) in the population became sterile. The "Handmaids" served to solve this dilemma. A Biblical passage was used to justify it.

[lolly]

19. Upper-class men rendered sterile

One of the weird double-binds of the society was that almost all "Commanders"--the highest caste of men, all of whom were high-ranking officers in the military--had been rendered sterile in various nuclear mishaps.

But it was ILLEGAL to say that men were sterile; if a handmaid could not get pregnant, she had to take all the blame. AFter a few years, she would be sent to the "colonies," nuclear-waste laden death camps.

The only way for most of them to successfully get pregnant was to cheat on their masters with one of the lower-caste men. Getting caught, however, meant the death penalty for the handmaid.

[sophie996]

24. thanks ...

SarahBelle and Lolly, for pointing that out! One of the biggest hypocrisies of the current administration is their determination to poison and destroy the environment, as if they didn't live in it. Maybe they're space aliens. ;)

[bobthedrummer]

39. All people of color were "evil", religious racism, from fundamentalists

not unlike those around Ashcroft, OTOH Hoover's FBI supervisory preference was known as the "Mormon Mafia"-there's always been the social forces in America that Atwood's book portrays as a warning imo.

[Jeebo]

18. I thought it was science fiction when I read it 15 years ago...

... now I'm beginning to wonder.

Ron

[davsand]

21. Creepy story--but not likely, IMO.

I love Atwood--she is a wonderful writer. However, Handmaid's Tale is probably not gonna be happening anytime soon.

In part, the women will NEVER let that happen--we are just about the first generation to grow up free from a lot of the stereotypes.
We have wonderful glorious women like Skittles and SoCal and Crewleader and all the others that are so strong and so wise that women will never go back into servitude without a fight. I know I sure as hell will do all I can to be sure no woman suffers that fate. Like Mari--I'll take a few with me if it ever comes down to it.

The MEN will not let it happen either. Even thinking the men will be on board for that does a grave disservice to the men who are on here and in so many other places. There are too many good male DUers to list--but I can hardly imagine that any of them would stand by and let that kind of oppression go on. I just can't see the guys like Will Pitt, Kephra, Zombywoof, Mattcom, or BigJawn letting it go down without comment or bloodshed. The other DU men are equally worthy of our respect and love...

We are threatened by so many things (very well outlined earlier in this thread) but I don't really think that forced breeding programs are in our future.

Pax to you all!

Laura

[Christ was Socialist]

23. people said the same about the holocaust b4 it happened

And you have to remember in America the majority still think sadaam and bin laden are linked. The majority still support the war. The bush admin lies straight to our face everyday and people love him more. And stamping out pornography would be easy. Soon the religious right will over power the corporates through skewed polls. Anything sexual can be used in double speak terms to prevent aids from becoming an american epidemic, or unleashing new diseases, don't put anything past them. The dominionists and reconstructionists believe they must put things right and control governments politically and socially for the second coming of christ. They can cloak themselves like, hell, bush did it in 2k. The left behind series has sold 65 million copies, the purpose driven life released this year has sold over 10 million, so don't underestimate this crowd and american apathy. I think americans lack of civil revolution in the face of arms is sad, if martial law was declared tomorrow most people would have the french attitude of ww2, and ride the fence. It is a big deal what we did to iraq, in fact in my book worse than hitlers first move. Remember we have went to war with 2 muslim countries. These crooks are literally getting away with murder.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

49. When the takeover happens, Offred notes that the military people

are not the regular American military. She doesn't say who they are, but I guess maybe they are mercenaries or militias? That would be an indication that the country was in big trouble, if somehow, Bush or a leader like him had a military force loyal only to him. That is what Hitler did too. I'm sure Bush, Cheney and Rummy would love to have that and are probably working on it somehow or other right now.

Anyway, I think that would be a necessary step, to get a different organization to use for force.

[BiggJawn]

57. Thanks, Laura!

Arm yourselves, people...

The day is approaching.

This ain't no "Easter Seal" in my sigline.....

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

25. more akin to the Taliban or the Islamic fundametalists...

...there are Xtian groups that advocate an extreme form of society like the Handmaids Tale (I just saw the movie), but the real-life versions of that society might be in the Islamic world.

Atwood might have been postulating what would happen if a Xtian version of radical islamic fundamentalism would take over government.

The sci-fi aspect was sort of a literary deaux ex machina, as well as helped the "sexists/patriarchy" aspects of the plot.

Could it happen here? Possibly, but we would have to junk the Constittuion. The emergency alluded to in the movie was a alsolot more dire (mass sterility) than just terrorist attacks....

[indigo32]

43. The Taliban surely took notes from that book

to the point where they even turned soccer fields into public arenas of execution (I believe). They didn't force women to be that type of handmaid but think of the similarities.

As for it happening here... well I certainly don't think it impossible, we must remain vigilant. As somebody said up thread, first thing they did was freeze bank accounts.

[Mari333]

34. anyone know any producers? They need to remake the movie

right now. Seriously.
remake it. and put it on the big screen.

[smirkymonkey]

35. Just finished watching the movie, and

it was chilling! Robert DuVall's commander so embodied the typical neo-con male and the way they think. Toward the end of the movie, after a terrorist attack, there was a televised clip of the Commander assuring the public that they were in control of the situation and that the Mayday terrorists would be rooted out wherever they were. It sounded like Bush on Fallujah.

The parallels between the movie and the world of the Bush Administration are astounding. This is what they want - the neo-cons, the fundies, the power-brokers - they want a totalitarian, militaristic police state where only white, christian, rich men have any power at all.

Explaining his rationale for why all of this had to happen, he stated (paraphrasing) that the poor, blacks, homosexuals, (women, added Kate) started wanting too much, becoming to influential to the point where nothing could "get done" anymore. So they had to be "cleaned up". Honestly, if we get another 4 years of this ass clown, I don't this scenario will be much of a stretch for us.

[Rex]

41. Franks is a moran! They will have to pry the Constitution outta

my cold, dead hands.

[Babel_17]

45. Robert A. Heinlein

Bob Heinlein, noted science fiction writer and futurist, expressed that one of his gravest fears was a fundamentalist takeover of the USA.

His early novel "Revolt in 2100 (If This Goes On)" depicted one such future.

It was a recurring theme in many of his novels. The fundies are usually depicted as "Fosterites" and the founder of the religious theocracy was Nehemiah Scudder.

Bob never wrote the prequel to the story but he had one in mind. It would have been titled "The Sound of His Wings". It was the story of politics meets religion in a marriage of expediency.

[Nobody]

47. Read the book, saw the movie,

have you seen the opera?

One of the most chilling scenes in the opera was after Ofwarren had her child, all the Wives and most of the Handmaids left her lying there as if she was discarded rubbish.

Shows what is valued in our society, the baby, not the mother. No wonder Ofwarren went nuts.

[skippysmom]

55. When I first read the book

as a college student in the early 90s I didn't think it could happen here. I couldn't imagine our country living in such fear that we would turn our culture into a theocracy.

It now seems more plausible. Frightening.

[Neshanic]

56. When the book came out, it was reviewed on NPR...long time ago.

I was at work and I thought, "what a crock". Not anymore. Also there was a miniseries on ABC called "Wild Palms". That was rather prophetic in some ways too. Comedians were the only voices that were telling the truth in their routines, about a corrupt and evil government. People would get arrested and drug away in public, and no one would bat an eye.

[cmf]

58. Terrifying because it can happen

I first read this book in the early 1990's while I was in college, and I have re-read it every couple years since then. I cannot imagine the religious right actually adopting the sexual practices described in the book, but I can imagine many of the other scenarios in the novel coming true. We are slowly seeing it now, with the chipping away of reproductive rights.