Is Bush really going to make the decision to go into Fallujah?

[kentuck]

Would that be a bloodbath in the making? Or is he trying to run a bluff? Or is it that they have no intentions of going into Fallujah? That it is the Americans that are under siege - they cannot withdraw and they cannot advance. They cannot withdraw, else it would look like a defeat. It is an intolerable situation.

The headline in the Colorado Springs Gazette this morning asks, "Will US attack Fallujah" with sub-heading of "Bush, advisers weigh military consequences"...I thought we already attacked Fallujah? What will be the consequences?

Our superior military hardware should win the military battle for the city but what about the political battle afterwards? Who wins the hearts and minds of the people? Not just in Iraq, but in the entire Middle East. If George, Jr is making the decision, I do not have a lot of faith in what his decision might be. Contrary to what Dick Cheney said this morning, I think John Kerry or just about anyone would be better for these times than George Bush, Jr.

[Codeblue]

1. Of course

They will launch an assault into Fallujah. What else would they do? They're determined to kill those "insurgents" somehow.

[tedzbear]

2. He will, but only after Rove disseminates sufficient propaganda...

...to reassure the American people that the assault is necessary for world peace.

:nuke:

[bahrbearian]

11. The Hidden WMD's ? We can always plant em after.

[Bonhomme Richard]

3. I'll bet bush is pushing for the attack and getting.............

a fight from the commanders in the field. They are fully aware of what could happen if they go into Fallujah or Najaf.

[Catshrink]

4. No, he's not making the decision

Cheney is. * is just the mouthpiece.

[PragMantisT]

5. He has to

If he backs off, he's a bigger wimp than his dad.

And when he does, he makes reservations to keep the military in Iraq forever. There will be no peace.

All because we don't like somebody's newspaper.

What a fool.

[joanski01]

6. I think he is going in.

There were plenty of people who thought his threat to go into Iraq was a bluff.

I am now at the point of thinking that bush* is just going to level the country and take over. They don't care how many people they kill. Liberate the people, hah!!!! Once they own Iraq, they'll have their base and will go on from there. Good-by World.

[tedzbear]

21. We did it to the American Indian, so we'll probably do it in Iraq.

Bush and his cronies believe in the time honored concept of manifest destiny. We're one nation under god, so we're never wrong.

:nuke:

[candy]

7. It's "piss or get off the pot "time

Sure he'll go in,no choice!

[nostamj]

8. of course, * doesn't make decisions

he announces them after Cheney et al make them.

but, be SURE to read Will Pitt's latest on Fallujah, Najaf:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1470744

[jeanmarc]

9. It's not his ass in 'harm's way', he's 'bravely' going in.

Bush has no problem wasting the lives of our soldiers for a pointless debacle.

[The Lone Liberal]

10. The Lying Asshole loves to say "Let's Roll"

Makes him believe he has a set of cojones, easy to have nerve when you are several thousand miles from the shot and shell and surrounded by the SS.

[Mika]

12. Nope. God will make the decision. Bush is just god's instrument.

Didn't ya get the memo?

[UnAmericanJoe]

13. If he does,

History will show it to be the decision that turned Iraq into Vietnam. (And John Kerry's presidency will be very ugly - by no fault of his own)

[Malva Zebrina]

16. Well, that is debateable

let us be honest in speaking truth

Kerry voted to give this insane man a blank check to make a invasion on Iraq. He as well as others, including Hillary Clinton.


And there lies the rub for many who seek peace and want to work toward peace.

Kerry voted to let Bush do this. That is the blunt truth and it should not be spun if any of us are interested in getting back to basics.

I am not bashing Kerry per se--he is a good man , no doubt, but it needs to be said and recognized in the face of truth that Kerry did vote and approve of Bush's invasion and to hell with all propriety.

We should not build up a sainthood, mythology of Kerry .

We know we have no other choice if we want Bush out-in fact, we are forced to vote for Kerry if we want the idiot out-but we should not hang all our hopes on Kerry either. I have the feeling he will be a safety seeking neutral and a politican extraordinair also.

He will be saddled with Iraq and, after all, he did vote to let it happen.

Although he will not be as bad a Bush because he has more intelligence so the assaults on our ears and minds will not be a great.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jacobin]

14. today's reports indicate he is faltering in his "resolve" to

use massive force to repress those he has partially conquered.

I'm sure some folks are telling him that he will open a huge can of kick ass on our soldiers all over Iraq if he does.

He's probably got Rove figuring out whether to do it based on whether his base will love him enough for all the A-rab killing or if it will piss off too many swing voters.

Oh Yes. The Commander in Chimp is not playing politics with our soldiers.....NOT :eyes:

[Joanne98]

17. He'll do it. HIS WILL is more important than anything to him.

They're going in. Bush is addicted to war now. He's gone from "beer to blood". He's an addict. He can't stop killing. He gets a rush from it. I bet he watches all the war footage he can. WAR PORN. Then he gets a big boner and calls Condi in for a private meeting. You know it's true. He's a monster. He likes to kill. I'm beginning to think he's the Beast in Revelations. And I'm not even a christian.

[SpiralHawk]

15. The Alamo Vs. Fallujah

The Chimp-in-Chief is out at the pig farm in the Texican wilds, mulling all this over right now with a big bowl of pretzels.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

18. it is sort of a political dilemma, not a miltiary one.

Militarily speaking we can take Fallujah, probably after a pretty heavey urban warfare battle. The military question is whether or not its worth it. The place can be bypassed, when it comes to logistics...all we have to do is secure that bypass road.

The political issue operates in a few ways....

1. If we dont take the place we wont be showing resolve, and it could be read as saying "Americans are weak and wont do what it takes to put down resistance"

2. If we do take the place it could be bloody.
a. lot of US casaulities may not be too good for domestic politics (yet, I think the public will acccept this, or at least the half of the public that thinks Bush can do no wrong).

b. a lot of civilian casualties would be bad PR for the US in the Arab world and elsewhere in the world community. Domestic conservatives really wont care about this, but perhaps more thoughfull folks in the world of diplomacy might be counseling against thi.

[kentuck]

19. But all of Bush's decisions are political.....we know that much about him

ANd how would it affect the election in November? Will it make the terrorist threat look more dangerous and, in the process, make George Jr look stronger and make it appear even more necessary not to change horses in the middle of the stream? Tha tis what George Jr is thinking...

[Tatiana]

20. I think he will do it.

He is not listening to reason. He wants to conquer, destroy, and have the region fear him.

He'll do it. And God help everyone in the area when it happens.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

22. the problem with "playing hardball w. Falujah"...

is, even tho Bush & co. are pretty ruthless, the military is still going to play more or less by the rules of war and not deliberatly try to kill noncombatants....so, a Falujah as "exmplary collective punishment" really isn't whats going to happen....something like that would mean we would level the place and kill everyone in the trouble areas of town, like the Syrians did ih Homs (I think). That would be an out-and-out war crime which we are not going to do.

So, securing Falujah is going to mean just that, that we prove that we can, no matter the cost, secure the town and prove that there there are no "no-go" areas in Iraq. I don't think thats really going to stop the ongoing Sunni insurgency, though.

[AlinPA]

23. Bush* is too stupid. Rove is working on it. Bush* will make the

speech and will go up in the polls after the media touts his "steely resolve". After all the bodies are counted, there will be a picture of the moron praying in the fucking rose garden. Slime.

[number6]

24. I think so and its going to be bloody ....

:(

[napi21]

25. Remember his arrogance! He'll do it!

He keeps telling the World that the USA is the toughest and greatest and can "lick" anybody!

I don't think there's any quesiton. When it gets bloody, it'll just be the Iraqi's fault.

[0007]

27. This reminds me of the time my dog treed a raccoon,

for three days the dog wouldn't leave the tree. Shep would bark loudly, but soon he got hungry and gave up on the raccoon in the cherry tree. BTW raccoons love cherries.

[kentuck]

28. Reminds me of the story....

of Cousin Clem who ran a bobcat into a hollow log....He had his arm stuck into the log when his cousin Zeke came riding by on his mule...Zeke could see that it was a pretty distressful moment. "You want me to hep you hold him" Zeke asks? "No! I want you to hep me turn him loose..."

Bush is in an analogous position to Cousin Clem...