Saddam's lawyer on 60 Minutes tonight. Wants Rumsfeld to testify, MORE

[Wonk]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/22/60minutes/main613266.shtml

(CBS) Even as fighting continues in Iraq, the United States is helping the Iraqis to prepare for the trial of Saddam Hussein.

No date has been set, but a few days ago, the Iraqi National Congress announced that a war crimes tribunal has been established to try Saddam.

But who would defend such a man? The answer is easy. Jacques Verges, an 80-year-old French lawyer, is known as "The Devil's Advocate," for his spirited defense of some of the worst monsters of our time.

Though he rarely wins his cases, he often succeeds in turning the tables, putting the accusers on trial, and putting them in the same boat as the bloodiest of defendants. Correspondent Morley Safer reports.

more...

[Wonk]

1. Well, that was interesting, sort of...

I wonder how it'll all play out?

[Wonk]

8. mp3 & vp3 here for those who missed it

3 M mp3

42 M vp3

[DemonFighterLives]

2. Interesting

Rummy was the traveling salesman of toxins. He's got that right!

[LittleApple81]

3. I could not watch it. Is that what he said? We certainly can agree with

that statement... and the image is great: Rummy with his briefcase going country to country...

[Postman]

4. Verges is a "truth seeker"...

it doesn't matter if his client goes to jail. They probably ARE guilty of the crimes charged against them. But what gets lost is the entire history behind the events that brought them to that point.

He challenges the "official" story and wants to lay out for all to see the entire context of how events unfolded and then make a judgement as to guilt or innocence.

That's what was meant by his use of the word "introspection". American society needs to see what its government was doing (supporting monsters) prior to declaring such people as "evil doers".

Rumsfeld shaking hands with the very man who "gassed his own people", although the gassing occurred 5 years later.

They had some French rightwinger on trying to spin the idea that its okay to give WMD's to monsters because its the monster that is responsible for using such weapons. Yeah, right. How about I go arm the local bankrobber or drug-dealer. Its not my fault he used it to kill somebody.

These people must have hit a brick wall somewhere along their brain developement...

[Tellurian]

16. Good info, on Verges, postman..

If Verges takes the case..this will be Blockbuster material!

[Laughing Mirror]

19. Yes, and who has the right to decide who the monster is?

That right-wing flack they brought on? Vergès wants to call Rumsfeld, maybe Kissinger, maybe Poppy Bush to defend their former pal Saddam, but not the present Bush. He has diplomatic immunity, the wise Vergès chuckles, puffing his cigar.

Rumsfeld, Kissinger, George Bush, Saddam. Monster's Ball, indeed.

[oblivious]

27. I'm not sure the gassing "occurred 5 years later"

Rumsfeld backed Saddam even after chemical attacks
By Andrew Buncombe in Washington

24 December 2003

Fresh controversy about Donald Rumsfeld's personal dealings with Saddam Hussein was provoked yesterday by new documents that reveal he went to Iraq to show America's support for the regime despite its use of chemical weapons......

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=475931

[scarletwoman]

5. Fascinating segment!

Man, the other Frenchman (whose name I didn't catch) REALLY dissed Verges, but I certainly came away on Verges' side. I think he's absolutely correct to bring up the guilt of all the complicit parties, to insist that the evil perpetrated by specific defendents does not occur in a vacuum -- there are ALWAYS abettors.

It appeared to me that the attacks on Verges are based on the fallacy of black vs. white thinking. To declare ONE person "evil", while attempting to ignore the entire context in which that person's "evil" was allowed to flourish.

People much prefer to find a scapegoat, than to examine what evil might lie within themselves.

Two other points I liked about this segment:

First: That they showed the video clip of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam. HAH!

Second: That Verges countered the body count of Saddam (300,000) with the body count of children dead due to 12 years of UN sanctions (500,000).

NO ONE is free of culpability.

sw

[frankieT]

10. the other french guy is well known here in France

Bernard Henri Levy, former maoist in the 60's, turned to be one of heavyweight "mediatic philosophers" usually pro-USA and pro-Israel, anti-Arab, anti-Muslim, anti-Russian and anti-everything stands against USA/Israel foreign policy. I'm really tired of him here. when "media" need a "superior intellectual point of view", Levy or Fienkielkraut or Glucksmann are just invited on TV Shows.

[newyawker99]

22. Hi frankieT!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[frankieT]

25. thank u

:toast:

[scarletwoman]

23. Merci!

I very much appreciate the additional information!

Not being familiar with either Verges or Levy, my first impression of each of them was very different.

Verges seemed to me to be an utterly honest and profoundly thoughtful man. Levy seemed to me to be a smug, egotistical and narrow-minded man.

Verges' point of view was compelling and philosophically coherent. Levy's attacks on his character were quite unconvincing.

Bienvenu à DU!

sw

[scarletwoman]

6. I wish that this could get a little more attention...

Therefore, here's a :kick:

[UTUSN]

7. I'll Kick for Darth Rums Testifying n/t

[moondust]

9. Going after the leaders of the U.S., not the U.S.

All mentioned were, incidentally, Republicans.

Fascist or no fascist, this I gotta see.

[Tellurian]

15. Yes, a good sign the World sees Bush and the GOP for what they are!

[Christ was Socialist]

11. He should be given every award on the planet

Most americans are too ignorant to see the bigger picture. Behind every evil leader their are enablers who get to go on blame free. This man is a Hero.

[frankieT]

12. journalist always present him defending Klaus Barbie

or dictators. but his first serious work as lawyer was to defend the Algerian Liberian Front during the colonial war (1954-1962).
the common goal of Verges actions was to fight Imperialism and to give a voice for the rest of the world, you know the "brownies" who dont know sh*t about our great superior principles "democracy", "justice" ,etc. He's one of the few still talking about the horrible crimes of colonialism, and its genocidial policies against native americans, tasmanians, congolese (millions slain by King Leopold of Belgium), etc,etc,etc.
Aimé Césaire, a french carribean poet, said that what Europeans found revolting with Hitler, its that he applied war methods against fellow Europeans previously used only against "inferior" races during colonial wars.
This injustice is the thing really revolting for the Arab world and the 3rd World generally.

[Laughing Mirror]

18. Thank you for bringing a little history about the great truthseeker Vergès

You are quite right, as you are in your earlier post. Naturally, the 60 Minute segment would trot out the famous French TV personality BH Levy, pop psychologist, as is done on French TV, as you say, along with the wild-haired likes of Glucksman or Finkelkraut. The problem with all these pop TV political personalities, who always speak in the same voice, is that they attribute their very own attributes (media whore, "fascist," BHL says here) to Vergès himself, as Levy, right on cue, displays in this segment, claiming, "The problem what he does is outside the court." Exactly the problem with Levy, only Levy is not a lawyer, as far as I know, and cannot plead a case in court, only his fractured side of the story on TV, which occasion he never fails to take advantage of.

I recently saw Glucksman go off on a furious rant attacking Vergès on French TV, using the same language we see Levy using in this segment, ignoring the facts, as Vergès never does. Vergès responded simply and devastatingly, "All that can be said is that this gentlemen has the right to the presumption of ignorance."

[Tellurian]

20. If Verges is considered "The Devil's Advocate"..

I doubt even Verges could muster enough spin to advocate for Poppy if he had him as a client. Could be Verges` only failure.

[scarletwoman]

24. "...the right to the presumption of ignorance."

Oh, that's marvelous! I liked Verges immediately -- he is, without doubt, an important voice for Truth.

Vive Verges!

sw

[Donkeyboy75]

13. This may be bad for the left.

The *ies will spin it as "it's us against the French" again, the 60% of idiots that make up this population will fall for it, and Rumsfeld will be hailed as a hero for standing up to the world, "doing what is right" and "not asking permission from the rest of the world to protect America." :puke:

[Tellurian]

14. This is a VERY BIG Story..we should keep this kicked..

Also, postman's explanation makes alot of sense..

To think, the best the RWers can do is a lame attempt to smear Kerry is just laughable!

[leftofthedial]

17. I'm still trying to figure out what he's charged with

and by what authority

[oblivious]

26. I have the same question.

Charged with breaking UN regulations? Turns out he was complying after all. And should the leaders of Turkey, Morroco and Israel, for example be tried for the same thing?

Charged with the deaths of Iranian soldiers during the 80s war with Iran? He was an ally of the US.

Charged with "gassing his own people"? The US Department of Defense investigation concluded that the gassing was done by Iran.

Invading Kuwait? Let's not forget that the vast majority of Iraqis agreed with that.

These things are not done by one man. There was a massive system in place. Saddam, by some reports has been living a life of delusion, writing romance novels the last few years.

So what is this old tyrant being charged with? Being a tyrant?

I'm guessing Saddam is going to have a lot of fun with this one, as is the lawyer that takes his case. But I'm also guessing he will never live to make it to court.

[Tellurian]

21. Anyone know where Saddam is incarcerated now?

[oblivious]

28. Qatar maybe?

I think I read last month that he had been transferred to US facilities in one of the Gulf states.

[oblivious]

29. Ted Rall's sneak preview

THE TRIAL OF SADDAM HUSSEIN
Selected Highlights From a Future Transcript

<big snip>
AC: Very well. As you are aware, you have been charged with a number of serious offenses. Let's begin with your war against Iran, which killed more than a million Iraqis and Iranians between 1980 and 1988 and destroyed our national economy.

SH: Ah, well, I can explain that. I wanted to give up that stupid war as soon as the Iranians began fighting back, but Secretary of State George Schulz kept bugging me about it. He called me up all the time, in the middle of the night--like the whole world is on Washington time, you know? Keep on rockin', Saddie, he said. Don't be a wuss. You're our strategic bulwark against Iran. I admit it. I was flattered. When the Great Satan tells you he needs you to become his "strategic bulwark," what are you gonna do, say no? Plus President Reagan kept sending me cash and bombs.

AC: Did you use a nerve gas called tabun against the Iranians, in violation of the 1925 Geneva protocol against the use of chemical weapons?

SH: Well, yeah, but Donald Rumsfeld gave me a note.

AC: Why don't we just--

SH: You see, Rumsfeld was Reagan's special Middle East envoy--'83, I think it was--and he came over to visit me at the palace. We celebrated Ramadan together, saw a few shows. We were tight, though you'd never know it to hear the way he talks now! Back then, though, Rummy was my dog. He told me that the president had authorized him to do "whatever's necessary" to help me go all the way to Teheran. The Americans knew that I was gassing those Shiite Iranians like nobody's business, and they loved it! You have to understand, they were still pissed about that hostage thing. That's why they offered me full diplomatic relations. I figured hey, it's a tough neighborhood, what with psycho Israelis bombing my brand-nuke plant and the Saudis chopping off their princesses' heads down south--I needed a friend, Rummy needed a friend, it worked out.
http://www.uexpress.com/tedrall/?uc_full_date=20031216