Kerry "would ensure there was no military draft "!!

[Dems Will Win]

http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/articles.asp?id=28347

-snip-

He said he would guarantee that social security funds would be available through the rest of this century, and that he would ensure there was no military draft because he would conduct "more sensible foreign policy."

-snip-

BUSH '04 = DRAFT '05
KERRY '04 = PNAC OUT THE DOOR!

[Bill McBlueState]

1. yeah!

See, not "Whoever wins the election, the terrorists will lose." None of that conciliatory togetherness crap that gets us burned every time. The BFEE isn't playing that game.

I like this. With Bush, there's going to be more war and a draft. With Kerry, there will be *sensible* foreign policy. Accentuate the differences!

[proud patriot]

2. Thank goodness

:hi:

[Goldmund]

3. I do believe that Kerry will do everything in his power to avoid a draft..

...but unless he commits to withdrawal from Iraq, which he won't do, I'm not sure he'll be able to avoid a draft, since the situation in Iraq seems to be getting more messy by the minute. If it's a mess next spring, what's he going to do? Send the troops who were already there back for the 11th time?

[Dems Will Win]

4. No but he will do this:

Kerry's NO-DRAFT plan to raise 40,000 additional troops and avoid reinstatement of the draft is added up this way (my synthesis):

1. Move some paper-pushers to combat (lots of potential there in nearly a million non-active-duty)
2. Increase enlistment with real scholarships and pay raises
3. Let troops know Special Ops will hunt al-Queda, no more invasions needed, so Guard/Reserve re-up rate goes up. "Primarily a law enforcement effort, not a full military effort", say JK on MTP last Sunday.
4. Start a "Civilian Stability Corps" that would help in reconstructing Afghanistan and Iraq and relieve military pressure.
5. GET FOREIGN TROOPS TO COME INTO INSTEAD OF LEAVE IRAQ!!

http://www.candidatemap.com

"...I propose that we enlist thousands of them in a Civilian Stability Corps, a reserve organization of volunteers ready to help win the peace in troubled places. Like military reservists, they will have peacetime jobs; but in times of national need, they will be called into service to restore roads, renovate schools, open hospitals, repair power systems, draft a constitution, or build a police force. A Civilian Stability Corps can bring the best of America to the worst of the world—and reduce pressure on the military."
< Source: Kerry, John. "Protecting Our Military Families in Times of War: A Military Family Bill of Rights." March 17, 2004. http://johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0317.html >

With this NO-DRAFT PLAN, Kerry will not have to resort to conscription, even after Bush screwed the whole thing up.


From STOPTHEDRAFT.COM

http://technologyreports.net/stopthedraft/?articleID=2550

What do a former fighter pilot in the National Guard and a former officer in the Navy have in common? Both have promised not to reinstate the military draft if elected president.

Senator John Kerry has promised that if elected president he will not reinstate the military draft, but will increase troop numbers by 40,000.

President Bush and his staff have also promised the American public that there are no plans to reinstate the military draft.

-snip-

John Kerry wants to deploy 40,000 more troops to Iraq and finish the job quickly. Yet when asked how he would do it, he said that a draft is not needed and people will enlist. To his advantage, however, Senator Kerry was an anti-war activist after serving his duties as a Navy officer in the Vietnam War and knows first-hand the pitfalls of the military draft.

-snip-

Kerry said on MTP that we don't need to invade whole nations beyond Afghanistan. He has a plan to increase 40,000 troops without a draft, a plan to bring in foreign troops to Iraq.

There's this: http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2004_0330b.html

“When I returned from service in the military, I testified to the Congress about the racism in the military, about the lopsided application of the draft, the impact that it had on minority communities, the lopsided number of casualties, both African-American and Hispanic, predominantly.

“And I testified to the Congress about the inequality of the application of the draft and the way in which they were treated when they came home, left in communities that were neglected and lacked health care and education and other issues.”


Also this: http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2003_1203a.html

"Kerry also said he doesn’t believe there is a need to reinstate the draft, a source of conflict during the Vietnam War. "

[Goldmund]

8. Sounds sweet...

...and lofty, and not doable in a short period of time.

"1. Move some paper-pushers to combat (lots of potential there in nearly a million non-active-duty)"

These "paper-pushers" will have to be trained, and also there must be a reason they're "paper-pushers", otherwise * would have activated them by now rather than to face the fallout of having to say to all those guys there that they're not coming home.

"2. Increase enlistment with real scholarships and pay raises"

Yes, that means more funding, and it also means a waiting period before it can take meaningful effect. This is a long-term, not a short-term strategy.

"3. Let troops know Special Ops will hunt al-Queda, no more invasions needed, so Guard/Reserve re-up rate goes up. "Primarily a law enforcement effort, not a full military effort", say JK on MTP last Sunday."

See 2.

"4. Start a "Civilian Stability Corps" that would help in reconstructing Afghanistan and Iraq and relieve military pressure."

Would you sign up for this? I wouldn't. Also a long-term strategy.

"5. GET FOREIGN TROOPS TO COME INTO INSTEAD OF LEAVE IRAQ!!"

Oh, yeah, they're all just itchin' to go there. Even if you assume that with a new Administration the US will get some of the global community's good will back, before they'll even consider sending troups there, Iraq will have to stabilize.

[Dems Will Win]

11. I disagree.

These "paper-pushers" will have to be trained, and also there must be a reason they're "paper-pushers", otherwise * would have activated them by now rather than to face the fallout of having to say to all those guys there that they're not coming home.


1. Rummy is trying to do just that but Kerry would accelerate it and put it on a crash program to do in his first 100 days as part of his Real Deal. There are tens of thousands out of the near-million that could be trained to be active-duty. Don't foget they already went to boot camp and know how to shoot even though they are paper-pushers.

Yes, that means more funding, and it also means a waiting period before it can take meaningful effect. This is a long-term, not a short-term strategy.

2. Kerry plans to cancel some expensive weapons programs left over frfom the Cold War, freeing up funding for scholarships, pay raises, medical, etc. And Special Ops funding and strength will increase dramatically in Kerry's first 100 days (#3).

Would you sign up for this? I wouldn't. Also a long-term strategy.

4. The Civilian Stability Corps? Not me. But there are thousands who would IF ASKED. Bush never asked NUTTIN FROM NOBODY. Again part of Kerry's crash 100-day program to avoid reinstating the draft.

Oh, yeah, they're all just itchin' to go there. Even if you assume that with a new Administration the US will get some of the global community's good will back, before they'll even consider sending troups there, Iraq will have to stabilize.

5. Not true. You act as though NATO would not go to Iraq if Kerry pushed it through, that NATO countries are not brave enough. That alone would change the picture dramatically. And Putin is dying to cut a deal to get Russian business in there and is already drafting 165,000 men a year and just got re-elected, so what does he care? The U.S. could then have less troops in Iraq instead of more.

[Goldmund]

12. All decent points,

but I'm still skeptical that all this could be done in time to keep Iraq from falling apart (which may well happen even before the election).

We shall, hopefully, have a chance to see who's right.

[Dems Will Win]

15. Iraq has already fallen apart, the media isn't reporting it

Construction has stopped in most places as the US has withdrawn to fortified compounds in most cities. We can continue to hold out there and watch the Iraqis suffer for at least a year until Kerry can straighten it out. It will take 2-3 years at least with true international help to just start to put it back together.

I agree that we would just fight the current holding action, especially after the upcoming battle in Falluja, that will really seal the deal when several thousand Iraqi are killed along with a couple of hundred Americans.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[Goldmund]

6. Oh, yes...

...and the only consequence of trying to elect Nader is electing Bush.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[Goldmund]

10. Dude,

I don't vote for guy X over guy Y because I like guy X. I don't even vote for guy X because his beliefs are closer to mine.

There's one reason I vote for guy X, and one reason only: because I think I, and those close to me, will be better off with guy X as president. Period.

Voting is a pragmatic act.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[Goldmund]

16. hahaha

He sure didn't try to avoid it out of pacifism or because he thought it was wrong, did he?

Do I feel comfortable voting for someone who actually killed people?

Funny question.

Do you feel comfortable voting for someone who is clearly not going to win, but instead will take votes away from someone else who could actually beat Bush? Do you feel comfortable helping to extend these disastrous policies for another four years, which will kill hundreds of thousands more people -- just so you can pat yourself on the back and feel "clean" and "principled"? That's the height of egomania.

[Donkeyboy75]

17. Go on living in your fairy tale world.

I inhabit the real one, where Nader has zero chance of winning. Now normally one could say that voting for him would "send a message." Not worth it now. Getting * out of office is priority number one, and the only way for that to happen is to vote Kerry.

[Sparkly]

18. Did anybody die

in the past few years from pollution? From lack of healthcare? From urban decline and lack of police? Even beyond the Iraq fiasco, I believe there have been deaths as a result of Bush being in the White House instead of Gore. In that sense, votes for Nader have contributed to deaths and would do so again -- because anything other than a vote for Kerry, as I see it, is not helpful to ousting this dangerous regime. Respect for Bush for dodging Vietnam, yet killing people in the name of "morality?" I don't understand that.

[bobbyboucher]

26. You're as obvious as the nose on my face.

Nice try, wonderlick.

[Mari333]

13. some of us have a lot to lose

Nader is being funded right now by the GOP, I have a kid in Iraq, and a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush.
it was in the past, and it still is today.
I want my kid home, I want Bush out.
anyone who votes for Nader is voting for Bush.
Democrats wont let that happen again.
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[SheilaT]

7. At the rate we're losing soldiers

in Iraq, there will be a draft before the election. Don't kid yourselves. And Kerry will bluster ineffectually, and if he's elected he won't end it.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[SheilaT]

25. Kerry will be less different from Bush

than his little worshipers believe. Oh, he'll appoint other justices and his cabinet will consist of different people, but he'll keep the draft going. And I'm convinced the draft will occur well before the election.

Just look at what's happening right now in Iraq. How many of our soldiers have died this month alone over there? The last number I saw was 109 and that was a couple of days ago and does not count all the mercenaries who are also dying. It won't take much to get enough people on the bandwagon of "We've got to stand behind our President, and we can't let our valiant young men and women die in vain" which is just code speak for "No matter how much of an idiot, he's still our president, and we may as well throw more good lives away while we're at it." And all the chicken hawks in Congress, in the White House, everywhere out there, they'll all be saying, Yes, yes, let's have a draft.

I'm so angry about this (and I have two sons, 21 and 17) that I'm not capable of being coherent on this subject.

I cannot make my sons understand the danger they are in.

[BattyDem]

20. Dems Will Win ...

I just wanted to thank you for your informative posts. :)

Yesterday, I posted a message asking for any links or information about the draft. Someone said I should read your posts because you were the expert, so I went back and read them and I learned a lot. Today, you've given me even more info, so thanks again. :toast:

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[Goldmund]

23. You're a conservative republican?

Now THAT'S a surprise.

"If your son was not prepared to die, then he had no business joining the Military. I served in the Army for 6 years and we have to place for fairys like him."

Who's "we"? "We" the armchair warriors? "We" the pussies who sit behind a computer screen, eat KFC and spew right-wing propaganda while some other poor soul has to fight for us? And of course, you throw in supposed past Army service to boot. If you really served, your training would be a valuable asset -- go and be a hitman for Bush's corporate oligarchy, instead of insulting a mother whose son was tricked by the quasi-patriotic propaganda of "freedom" and "country" into fighting for neither.

[BattyDem]

24. I'm not sure why your rant is directed at me ...

I was looking for some info and I thanked someone for giving it to me. That hardly makes me "stupid stupid" ...

I prefer to become informed on a topic and then make my own decisions about it, unlike those people who make their decisions based upon what Rush and O'Reilly tell them.

By the way, posting a rant with all those spelling errors makes you look "stupid stupid" :eyes:

[bobbyboucher]

27. I feel sorry for you,

I'd like to buy you for what you're worth and sell you for what you think you're worth.

[dawn]

29. Hahaha, NY is never going to go to Bush*

Seeya, troll.

[Dems Will Win]

30. Thanks Batty Dem!

Just glad to let all know the score.

tell all the young people or parents of young people you know!

[Malva Zebrina]

21. I don't think there is much left to do but insitute the draft

and I don't think Kerry if he wins,will be able to stop it to tell the truth.

A vote for Kerry, is for me, a vote for this war, the grabbing of the spoils, and more abuse and occupation--it is done--the damage is done, Saddam is gone and it is worse under Bush, who killed ten thousands of those people there on lies. I am distressed that I will be forced to vote for someone who voted to give Bush the blank check

I protested, wrote letters--it seems like hundreds of them. Stood out in the bitter freezing cold every Sunday to try to stop an insane man's obssession with the non existent WMD, as well as trying to bash the UN down to the ground, if not eliminate it.

it was all in vain--no one including Kerry paid attention to the millions who somehow, in all their ignorance and commoness, knew more than a Kerry that Bush was lying.

I am outraged that I will be forced to vote for someone who ignored my protests and who actually was an opponent at that time.

[nonkultur]

28. Does he still tow the line with the DLC?

His national service webpage removed references to mandatory service last week.

It included gems like
"As part of his 100 day plan to change America, John Kerry will propose a comprehensive service plan that includes requiring mandatory service for high school students and four years of college tuition in exchange for two years of national service."(Rangel & Holling's draft bill is called the Universal National Service Act.)

and
"John Kerry believes we must create a new Community Defense Service to be guided by our nation’s first responders. This service would be comprised of hundreds of thousands of Americans in neighborhoods all over the country."


Here is the proposed policy from the DLC think tank PPI.
http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=115&subsecID=145&conten...

Instead of discarding the Selective Service System as an anachronism, therefore, this report proposes that it be reinvented as a recruiting device for voluntary national service. Specifically, PPI proposes to:

Replace the current Selective Service System with a National Service System that recruits young Americans to serve in one of three programs targeted at our new security needs: the military's new, short-term "citizen soldier" enlistment program, which should be scaled up to ease the growing strains on our military personnel; AmeriCorps, the nation's leading civilian volunteer corps, which should be expanded to bolster homeland security; and the Peace Corps, which should once again be a vital component of U.S. efforts to promote political and economic freedom abroad.

Require that both men and women register in this new National Service System.

Continue draft registration for those who choose not to volunteer for any of the three service options.
This policy report traces the evolution of America's approach to raising the military forces for its defense, examines growing strains on our current model of military recruiting and the emerging demands for civilian security efforts, and presents a blueprint for converting the passive Selective Service System into a National Service System that actively recruits young volunteers to serve their country.

[Dems Will Win]

31. kick

[Catfight]

32. Keep going, I'm listening..he's got my attention finally! n/t