Battle rages in Fallujah; minaret on Mosque destroyed

[rumguy]

This is a new report.

"The Marines say one of the most intense gunbattles that they have had in the two or three weeks that the supposed cease-fire has been in place here in Fallujah."

snip

"The Marines went and occupied two buildings. They were occupying those so that they could look out for suspected Iraqi insurgents.

Snipers posed some positions on the other side and deeper into the city. They holed up in those buildings for about four or five hours. Then in the words of one Marine, 'All hell broke loose.'"

snip

"The firefight, though, continued for a good two hours after that. very heavy exchanges of gunfire; U.S. Marine Cobra attack helicopters were called in."

snip

"That minaret has now been leveled by U.S. military ordnance, missiles and mortars. There's nothing left at all of that minaret. ..."

http://cnn.worldnews.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=CNN.com+-+Penhaul%3A+Fallujah+scene+of+intense+gunbattles+-+Apr+26%2C+2004&expire=&urlID=10042146&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fedition.cnn.com%2F2004%2FWORLD%2Fmeast%2F04%2F26%2Fpenhaul%2Fin

[WilliamPitt]

1. Fuck

http://truthout.org/docs_04/042604A.shtml

[VelmaD]

11. Feeling prophetic?

We are fucked. *huge sigh*

[lovedems]

15. I just read your article

(very good by the way) but the images of Blackhawk Down keep playing themselves out in my mind. The images of the troops running through the streets being shot from the tops of buildings and the total confusion and mess of the entire situation.

Fuck almost seems like an understatement.

[juajen]

16. Yeah, Will, I think you could say "cluster f**k

This is beyond horrible. Great article.

[fryguy]

2. Destroying Mosques

Well that's sure to win their hearts and minds.....

[stopthegop]

3. if you don't want something destroyed..

don't put a sniper there to shoot at Marines...pretty simple really...

[DrWeird]

4. Assuming the marines are telling the truth.

But the first casualty of war is the truth.

[stopthegop]

5. true...trusting the Marines are telling the truth eom

[Sir Craig]

12. Damn, you've discovered their secret...

Yes, it's true - the Marines just hate minarets and will destroy them for no reason, other than to get them out of their sight and screw the fact that it would piss the populace off to no end. As everyone knows, a pissed off, increasingly dangerous populace teeming with hidden weapons is exactly what Marines live for - just ask the 800+ other coalition force personnel who were killed thinking the same way.

In fact, it all makes perfect sense, because who would possibly think to use minarets, known to be off-limits as well as mosques to military personnel, for positioning snipers?

</disgust>

[DrWeird]

14. If you don't want marines shot at by snipers

don't send them to Fallujah. It's not rocket science, Craig.

[Sir Craig]

30. I understand that reasoning...

...the problem is, it isn't that simple. Fallujah is just a symptom of a much larger problem, that not only should we have not gone into Fallujah, but we should never have gone into Iraq.

Sadly, that is no longer an option. Also no longer an option is ignoring Fallujah. Some people here might be saying, "Well, why the hell not?" The reason is because, as the media likes to keep parroting, "we broke it, so now we own it."

Our invasion destroyed any kind of civil control that the region may have had, and to abandon these people to the chaos that has ensued due to our invasion would make us worse than Hussein. And if you don't think it would be chaos, look at what happened the last time we left a fundamentalist Muslim nation to its own devices after a vicious war (think Afghanistan).

Another reason we can't ignore Fallujah is because of a small matter of geography: Al Fallujah lies on the major artery traveling out of Baghdad, going west. Convoys bringing in supplies from Jordan have no choice but to go through Fallujah, and as we've seen in recent weeks, those supply convoys are being attacked constantly. Mind you, these are not military supplies - these are supplies meant to assist in rebuilding Iraq from the rubble we've reduced it to.

Hindsight is 20/20 in most cases, and certainly I hope that future world leaders will use Shrub's fiasco in Iraq as a lesson in how not to pursue foreign policy. But we are not afforded the luxury of that hindsight - we are caught in the middle of a mess that was created by the most corrupt administration this nation has ever been subjected to, and I personally feel the SOBs should be tried for war crimes once they are kicked out of office come November.

But my disgust that was evident in the earlier post was directed to those that feel the military is little more than armed mindless thugs, out to destroy whatever cultural icons they can get in their sights. I have been there, I know exactly what those poor bastards are going through, and I know the pain they feel when they loose buddies and the frustration of knowing that it is all because of a lie. And if someone uses a mosque or minaret to ambush our servicemen and women, knowing full well that the military is directed to observe the customs and courtesies of these nations and to respect their holy and cultural sites, then I have no problem with these same men and women defending themselves and doing what it takes to try to survive one of the most ill-planned excuses for regime change history has ever experienced.

For anyone here who has never been in that situation to blithely make such obscene remarks does NOTHING to further our cause. Instead it shames us for not taking EVERYONE'S sacrifice more seriously.

Come on, people, we're better than that. Leave the cheap shots to the bastards who haven't the thought process to understand what consequences their actions have: The Repugs.

[LeftCoast]

7. and if you don't want the marines shot at don't send them to Iraq

:eyes:

[Imperialism Inc.]

8. Its even more simple than that.

If you don't want upset Iraqis shooting at Marines.
1)Don't illegally invade a country.
2)Privatize all its resources and sell them off to your buddies.
3)Bring in outsiders to "guard" those resources for your buddies.
4)Tell the Iraqis they can only have so much say in their own affairs and that you won't be leaving even after you supposedly hand over the government.

Just don't do all those things and then you won't have to worry about having zero moral high ground when some angry people with the support of (some of) the population start taking shots at you.

[lastknowngood]

9. Don't be an ass if you think that makes a difference or that the

people are going to believe the us military when they have friends and family who say it never happened. Look wake the hell up in the south during the civil rights struggle black Churchs were used as centers of resistance and they were bombed and burned it only intensifies the anger and hatred like it or not we lose anytime we violate a religious symbol.

[stopthegop]

10. take a deep breath...you're verging on incoherent..

I'm not an ass...I just don't leap to the conclusion that is worst for the US military..that's all...

[RapidCreek]

25. Perhaps you should take a deep breath and follow your own advice.

While the first and only coherent portion of your own post is debatable...the rest is neither.

RC

[RapidCreek]

18. Yep yer pretty simple all right!

I wonder why the National Gaurd didn't level Texas Tower to impede Charlie Whitmans 96 minute sniping spree on the people of Austin. Guess it's becuase Texas Tower is a more important chunk of real estate than some fucking rag head church, eh?

Yep gotta admit that that US military precision is pretty awesome. I wonder if these assholes go quail hunting with rocket launchers. I can't wait to hear "uh gee wiz we din't mean to kill all them people...we was a shootin at that there sniper...whats all these Eyerakis cryin about...we done em a favor".


RC

[stopthegop]

19. I'm hurt...deeply....

that someone such as yourself would say that </sarcasm>

[RapidCreek]

22. Hey now that was a snappy response!

Very logical and well thought out. A true demonstration of vice like intellect. Yep I gotta admit you backed me right into the corner with that come back. Dazzling, it was...positively dazzling.

RC

[stopthegop]

23. not trying to back you into a corner...

just saying I don't care what you think...is that clear enough for you?

[RapidCreek]

26. As clear as that space between your ears.

Frankly I don't believe you are capable of understanding what I am talking about....so it naturally follows you wouldn't care about it either. This strikes me as a mind set remarkably similar to that of our duly selected, Commander and Thief, George AWOL Bush.

:)

RC

[stopthegop]

27. have a pleasant evening..

[Ms. Clio]

29. never mind

Of course someone else already said it.

[cornfedyank]

6. subtitle "the Alamo" n/t

[lovedems]

13. I fear we have just opened Pandora's box.

If we think the last month has been bad, I fear we have just seen the beginning.

I am suddenly very unhappy.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. I weep

for the ignorance that has bred the hatred and destruction in Iraq.

[opihimoimoi]

20. Just think if but for that one vote, Gore woulda been President.

For the Lack of a single VOTE in the SCOTUS Gore lost the recount effort. The 5 to 4 decision will go down in History as a Major fuck up.

Had Gore been Prez, he woulda implemented the Hart Rudman recommendations and 9/11 would be moot. Think of all the Money Bush is spending, the lives lost and wounded. Think of the damage, the humilation he has heaped on America. But for a single vote.

It was Scalia the Quack who hunts quacks with Cheney. History will look down upon him with revulsion and disdain. In addition, he is a nutcase.

[Gin]

21. Heard they were out-nmumbered on CNN and were told to retreat....

thats scary.

[RapidCreek]

28. There are 300,000 people in that town

and i'd hazard to guess at least a third of them are real pissed off.

RC

[Disturbed]

24. The Excuse

Will that excuse of that there was a sniper in there be effective
with the Iraqis?