What do you guys think when someone you respect and feel is intelligent

[Kremer]

and they still support and will vote for shrub? It kind of depresses me b/c I know they are intelligent yet they are falling for shrubco and his lies. I ask b/c yesterday in my office I e/mld a lady friend/co-worker of mine to see if she was registered to vote and if so, whom she supported? I kind of figured she was repug. She's blonde, good looking, makes good $, very professional and dresses well. She replied that she is registered as a repug and "supports the president." I f-ing hate that! "I support the president," like any "good" American would you freak! Like what's your problem you terrorist Democrat! She also tells me she is pro-choice and believes * and repugs are ok w/ abortion in cases of rape/incest. She clamored "should I vote for Kerry simply b/c he is pro-choice?" It's always so dramatic and all or nothing w/ repugs! She then goes on and on about how Kerry raised taxes at every turn. Her argument was totally what the admin had told her! I asked her to specifically name which bills Kerry raised taxes on and I would address them one at a time. I told her that most likely those bills were passed under repug controlled houses and that many repugs probably voted for them too! She also said Kerry was a hypocrite. I almost fell out of my chair! I proceeded to name a litany of issues, Dept of Homeland Sec, Creation of 9/11 panel, I won't testify, ok I will and asked her should I continue? It was near 5pm so I expect a response today. Gee, can't wait. I told her to really read up and study the issues b/c she really didn't even know what her own party stood for. It just bugs me that someone I respect and I know is very intelligent, no matter what you say, they will still support and vote for Chimp!

[no_hypocrisy]

I think someone like that who votes for * is using his/her emotions, not

his/her intellect, reason, and common sense.

Prejudice is the last hand on the button so to speak. A lot of people are scared. Scared from 9-11. Scared of the economy clapsing and they will potentially lose their money, property, power, and status. Scared of the "new" devil (Kerry). Scared of being responsible for regime change (by voting against *).

And there are people who are afraid of admitting they were lied to. By *, by Cheney, and their gang. By Rush, Sean, Fox News, etc. To digest this at one time would make anyone shake with fear of understanding there is a shadow government and it will take more than one election to reclaim this country.

Any other good theories?

[SheilaT]

1. I find it hard to respect

and even harder to continue to think someone is intelligent who supports W.

That said, there are a lot of thoughtful, intelligent people out there who are Republicans, who honorably uphold the beliefs of the Republican party. My problem is that W has been such an unmitigated disaster for this country that I know with utter certainty that no one who thinks about it at all can possibly continue to support him.

It becomes something of an oxymoron. Thoughtful, intelligent, support George W Bush? There's a "does not equal" sign between the first two words and the last phrase.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Listen to her respectfully

say, "So you support Bush because of ____" (fill in the blank). Then add, "Did you know that Bush did (fill in something he did that showed he doesn't support this position-there are plenty of those!)
Don't be strident or debating, because that will make her dig in her heels. This approach is the one that is most likely to make someone change their mind, or at least get them thinking about their position.

[Kremer]

4. Exactly! I listen with great respect and gracefully try to show the error

of her arguments. It can spiral to arguing very easily and then they do dig their heels in and you've lost them. I'm amazed at how just trying to have a political discourse w/ shrub supporters immidiately gets them on the defensive and hot. You point out something to them and ask what they think and they come back all huffy and start trashing your candidate.

[BlueEyedSon]

3. My personal experience with "smart" people who support Bush:

1. They watch FOX News. These people have reasonable analytical skills but are starting with different "facts" than we are. As they say in data processing, "Garbage In, Garbage Out" (GIGO).

2. They are rich. The tax cuts are their bottom line. We've got a bunch of rich/corporate guys making policy that benefits rich/corporate guys. When you get high enough into that stratosphere, the cost/benefit (literally) of the Bushies policies is a plus. (There are exceptions like Soros and Gates Sr., but they are wealthy enough that if they never made another dime, they would be OK).


PS So much of the bad things they do are "under the radar", so it is not just a question of "smarts". It is a full time job keeping up with the lies and dirty dealings of the republicans. One must proactively seek out information, mostly from non-traditional news sources (foreign press, the Internet, etc.). The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.....

[Kremer]

5. Yes! And it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a debate/discourse w/ someone

who starts w/ different "facts."

[Jivenwail]

6. There is a brilliant article

from Buzz Flash, written by P.M. Carpenter, that addresses this issue quite succinctly. Here's just one quote:

"How, indeed, could public support for Bush, after all his executive bungling and botching, surpass in percentages that of the certified imbecile population?

....that in times of war, the president gets the benefit of the doubt. Columnist Joshua Micah Marshall put it best last Friday in the New York Times: 'The president has cast the nation on what is essentially a war of choice. To admit that the president blew it is to say the same of the public that followed him into the conflict. And like its leaders, the public...doesn't like admitting it was wrong will go to great lengths to avoid doing so.'"

Here's the link, please read it - it speaks volumes:

"Opinion Lag" -- BuzzFlash Columnist P.M. Carpenter
http://www.buzzflash.com/carpenter/04/04/pmc04013.html

[Nlighten1]

7. One of my best friends is this way.

Drives me nuts

[gulliver]

8. They are unwise.

They aren't really using their intelligence. They are just fighting using intellectual skill. They have gotten so used to fighting for their side that they don't stop to consider Bush for what he is. When you are fighting, you don't stop to consider the destruction that is occurring.

[seabeyond]

9. just last nite a neighbor, i tell them

you are stupid, misinformed or in a cult like trance. bush is creating a fascist nation for my children and i am pissed at her and the others that are allowing

i am not soft pedaling anymore.

[devinsgram]

10. You still have a lot of time to take her away

from the dark side. Don't give up. Eventually she will see the light.

[RiffRandell]

11. My repub in laws are very smart

and are very liberal on social issues. I know they vote thinking the dems tax and spend and I believe they will vote for Bush again (dad is a small but profitable business owner). In '92 they did vote for Perot as a protest vote and "didn't feel it was wasted." It drives me crazy!!!! Recently I asked my mom in law if it bothered her that no WMDS were found and her reply was, "no, there's a lot we don't know, I don't believe Bush would put troops in harms way..." I told her to read about PNAC and she had no response to that. They are coming to stay with me in 3 weeks and I won't hold back. These are smart, caring people---all I can say is it must be $$$$$.

[newyawker99]

21. Hi georgiajess26!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[loftycity]

12. They cannnot admit that they are wrong and will go down in the

burning ship. It's that way, it is denial, they decieve themselves and go into complete delusion. They will never admit that they were wrong. When they stop believing, it cracks their whole little robotic world up. I bet she never admits to even a trival office mistake. It is always someones elses fault.

[BabsSong]

13. Define intelligent----I've seen so many people who are well educated

and otherwise quite intelligent but they are as ignorant and uninformed about politics and what is going on in our government as any knuckle dragging Limbaugh worshiper. I've tried to bring up issues with them and they stare at me like I'm talking about some abstract concept and spoken in Greek. What's a Haliburton?? Cheney is going to the Supreme Court--did he do something illegal?? Saddam--oh, the guy who 'did' 9/11, etc. Maybe the day Georgie says "DRAFT" and in a second term signs legislation to up middleclass taxes to pay for his follies, they will start filling in blanks like "what's the name of the president"............

[Ilsa]

14. Maybe she sees the GOP as a "country club" and can't imagine

herself on the outside of it.

Keep working on her on the issues. Find out what is a prioroty for her and then see how much effort she is worth. Find ways to help her keep an open mind.

Keep up the good work! :thumbsup: :bounce:

[BeFree]

15. Lazy

It takes effort tp learn the facts. It is much easier to just believe what TV tells you is happening. These people's intelectual laziness needs to be pointed out to them and if need be, make them choke on it!

Also, in most of these individuals, I have found a deep sense of anti-democracy. They really want an advantage over everyone else and the Republican Party caters to that want.

Pukes can kiss our ass.

[Tyler Durden]

16. I have no rePuke "Friends," I respect no rePuke "Opinions."

The rePukes have demonstrated that at the core of their "beliefs" are elitism, racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, and religious bigotry.

Sorry if I sound like the Radical Fringe (thanks, Dory) but that's just the way it is. They are the new Romanovs, and after the eventual Revolution, I will delight in dancing on the graves of their philosophy, which, as I am a Socialist, I believe with all my heart will eventually come to pass.

Fuck them. I have nothing in common with them, I have sympathy for their victims of which I and my friends count ourselves, and as the song goes, "...there won't be any peace on Earth 'til every Nazi dies..." May it happen soon.

As a Bedouin curse puts it: "May ye die in the desert alone and unattended, may vultures consume thy flesh and sands thy blood."

Disclaimer: I am not advocating violence, mayhem, or any other action directed at any political pary or official of the administration. I am merely anticipating with glee the inevitable and eventual judgement of the people and history.

[sadiesworld]

17. For many of these folks it IS about $$$$$$.

Try these out on them:
-Taxes won't change for those making less than 200K.
-Those making more than 200K will pay what they paid under Clinton...was that SO bad?
-Does the Shrub refund outweigh tuition hikes, property tax increases, etc.?
-Is the refund substantial enough that they can disregard their SS taxes being used to fund the government?
-The stock market consistently does better under dem presidents.
-What about Shrub's expensive war and monster corporate subsidies?
-For parents: Thanks for passing the burden on to me (deficits).
-For the elderly: Why can't we re-import drugs from Canada? That certainly hurts the pocketbook.

I think you have to be in a pretty heady financial realm to benefit from Buchco.

[leftofthedial]

18. I think I misjudged them

and they are neither intelligent nor deserving of respect (either that or purely evil).

There are two kinds of people in this country:

Those opposed to the bushgang

and

Fascists (or fascist pawns, enablers, stooges, accomplicies, etc.--still guilty)

I don't know about you, but my reading of history tells me that fascists are not to be tolerated.

[Tyler Durden]

19. You got that pegged.

Monsters are monsters, and if these bozos don't qualify, then Hitler was a philanthropist setting up holiday resorts for the Jews.

[Misunderestimator]

20. You just keep hammering

Yes, she does need to read up, but you can help by forwarding her pertinent articles. Highlight specific parts of it to make it more likely that she will read. It worked for me with a co-worker who has adamantly supported Bush. He is also intelligent, and reads... which is why he no longer supports Bush. I annoyed him on an almost daily basis sending articles and arguing via email and chat on such and such a position. He always understood that Bush is stupid, but his arguments for supporting him in the next election have completely evaporated. It works... be annoying.

[maggrwaggr]

22. never happens in my life

the only people I know who support Bush are complete dumbshits. Like seriously uneducated people who can barely read.

Maybe that's because I live in LA?

Anyway, it's impossible to think anybody who supports Bush is intelligent and well-informed.

Even my own father seems to be suffering from some form of right-wing schizophrenia. It's just bizarre.

[Mountainman]

23. I had a friend that in 2000.

We agreed about almost everything politically yet he said he was going to vote for Bush. When I asked why, he said that he wanted the tax cut. The guy lives off of income from stock investments and a tax cut was like getting a raise for him.

[Claire Beth]

24. she isn't intelligent when it comes to politics n/t

[w4rma]

25. Come January 2005, all the love and respect the Repugs have

for the President of the United States will disappear faster than the Clinton Surplus.

Tell her that and see what she says. }(

[callous taoboy]

26. My situation:

My parents are both well-educated, upper middle class retired folks living in a basically all white country club retirement community. Their neighbor just had a letter published in the Austin Statesman which trotted out the tired old NeoCon tactic of labeling us "Anti-American, pro-Taliban eiltists." This sums up the "group think" happening in my folks' community (or as my friend calls it, "The Winners' Circle."). My step-mom lost a brother in Vietnam (causing their mother to become a terminal alcoholic), has another brother who is gay and has lived with the same partner for over 20 years: Needless to say, these times being what they are, she is very pro-war and anti gay marriage. She has Rush on the headphones as she cleans, Fox news on 24/7. She will quickly walk away from an argument when I call her on the BS, but we just don't talk politics any more. My dad was a hard-working mid-westerner who "votes his pocketbook." Period. Republican till the day he dies. I love him, but we haven't really discussed anything of substance since 2000. My brother, the trust-fund hippy, smoked too much bud and dropped too much orange sunshine back in the day to ever get him to actually vote republican, but he was known to scrawl on several bathroom walls in Austin prior to the start of the war: "Fuck Saddam- Bomb Baghdad." My other brother, pulling down well over 250 K per annum, will vote for bush again, but will vote for a Democrat for Congress because, as he states, "Kay Bailey Hutchison doesn't give a crap about the working man." He will vote for bush because he doesn't think changing presidents in the middle of a war a good idea and also because he likes bush. It's this brother whose politics drives me nuts-- he was an old, hair to his ass hippy back in the 70's but is now a yuppie living in dallas. He has been led politically astray by my dad (he's the favorite son, after all), and by big bucks. Yet he goes into a rage about the neighbors using so much pesticide on their lawns and finds every excuse he can to come see me in the country.