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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:25 PM
Original message
Kerry releases detailed questions about Bush's National Guard record
Edited on Tue Apr-27-04 04:30 PM by blm
KEY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS: Bush’s Record In The National Guard


April 27, 2004

For Immediate Release

“If George Bush wants to ask me questions about that through his surrogates, he owes America an explanation about whether or not he showed up for duty in the National Guard. Prove it. That's what we ought to have. I'm not going to stand around and let them play games.” -- John Kerry, NBC News, 4/26/04



*

Bush Has Said He Used No Special Treatment To Get Into The Guard. How Does He Explain The Fact That He Jumped Ahead Of 150 Applicants Despite Low Pilot Aptitude Scores?
*

Col. Albert Lloyd Said A Report >From Alabama To Ellington Should Have Been Filed. Where Is That Report?
*

Why Did Bush Miss His Medical Exam In 1972?
*

Where Are The Complete Results Of The Required Investigation Into Bush’s Absence From The Exam?
*

Why Did Bush Specifically Request To NOT Be Sent Overseas For Duty?
*

Why Does The White House Say Bush Was On Base When Bush’s Superiors Had Filed A Report Saying He Was Gone For A Whole Year?
*

Why Is The Pentagon Under Orders To Not Discuss Bush’s Record With Reporters?
*

Where Are Bush’s Flight Logs?
*

Why Hasn’t Bush Himself Demonstrated That He Showed Up For Service in Alabama?

Bush Has Said He Used No Special Treatment To Get Into The Guard. How Does He Explain The Fact That He Jumped Ahead Of 150 Applicants Despite Low Pilot Aptitude Scores?

“There was no special treatment.”

--Then-Gov. George W. Bush

FACT: With Family Connection, Bush Got Coveted Slot in Texas Guard Shortly After Graduating from College.

A family friend of Bush’s father pulled strings to secure Bush’s spot; Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard after his student deferment ran out when he graduated from Yale in 1968. Before he graduated, Bush personally visited Col. Walter “Buck” Staudt -- the commander of the Texas Air National Guard -- to talk about the Guard. After Bush met with Staudt, he applied and was quickly accepted -- despite a waiting list of over 150 applicants. Staudt recommended Bush for a direct appointment, which allowed Bush to become a second lieutenant right out of basic training without having to go though officer candidate school. The direct appointment also cleared the way for a position in pilot training school.

FACT: Bush Scored in 25th Percentile on Pilot Aptitude Test. When Bush applied for the Guard, his score on the Air Force pilot aptitude section, one of five on the test, was in the 25th percentile, the lowest allowed for would-be fliers.

FACT: No Shortage of Pilots in Texas Guard. Although a Bush spokesman claimed Bush was fast-tracked because the Guard needed pilots, Charles C. Shoemake, a chief of personnel in the Texas Guard from 1972 to 1980 remembered no such shortage. “We had so many people coming in who were super-qualified,” Shoemake said Texas Guard Historian Tom Hail said there was no apparent need to fast-track applicants. “I’ve never heard of that,” he said. “Generally they did that for doctors only, mostly because we needed extra flight surgeons.”

Col. Albert Lloyd Said A Report From Alabama To Ellington Should Have Been Filed. Where Is That Report?

FACT: Col. Lloyd: Guard Records Should Include Evidence Of Alabama Service. Lloyd also said he did not know whether Bush performed duty in Alabama. “If he did, his drill attendance should have been certified and sent to Ellington, and there would have been a record.”

FACT: White House’s Own Expert Said Bush Should Have Done More. According to the Globe, “the White House included with the documents a memorandum from a Texas Air National Guard personnel specialist stating that the documents prove that Bush had a ‘satisfactory year’ for ‘retirement/retention’ purposes between May 27, 1972, and May 26, 1973. But that specialist, retired Lieutenant Colonel Albert C. Lloyd Jr., acknowledged in an interview last night that he evaluated Bush using the lower of two measures for rating Guard service. Guardsmen, he said, needed to serve more days to meet minimum-training requirements than to meet the lower threshold to receive retirement credit for the year. ‘Should he have done more? Yes, he should have,’ Lloyd said of Bush, who was a fighter-interceptor pilot. ‘Did he have to? No.’”

Why Did Bush Miss His Medical Exam In 1972?

FACT: Bush Was Suspended From Flight Duty For Failing To Take Mandated Medical Exam.

On September 29, 1972, Bush was officially suspended from flying for missing his annual medical examination. The orders note that Bush’s suspension is authorized under the guidelines presented in Air Force Manual 35-12 Para 2-29m, which reads that Bush’s local commander “will direct an investigation as to why the individual failed to accomplish the medical examination.”

Where Are The Complete Results Of The Required Investigation Into Bush’s Absence From The Exam?

FACT: The order suspending Bush from flight duty stated: “Verbal orders of the Comdr on 1 Aug 72 suspending 1STLT George W. Bush…from flying status are confirmed…Reason for Suspension: Failure to accomplish annual medical examination. Off will comply with para 2-10, AFM 35-13. Authority: Para 2-29m, AFM 35-13.

Para 2-29m, AFM 35-13: “When a Rated Officer Fails To Accomplish a Medical Examination Prescribed by AFM 160-1…(1)The local commander who has authority to convene a Flying Evaluation Board will direct an investigation as to why the individual failed to accomplish the medical examination. After reviewing the findings of the investigation, the local commander may convene a Flying Evaluation Board or forward through command channels a detailed report of the circumstances which resulted in the officer’s failure to accomplish a medical examination, along with a recommendation that the suspension be removed. (2) The individual’s major command will forward the report along with the command recommendation to USAFMPC/DPMAJD, Randolph AFB TX 78148 for final determination.”

Why Did Bush Specifically Request NOT To Be Sent Overseas For Duty?

FACT: Bush’s Application Indicated Bush Did Not Volunteer for Overseas Duty. On Bush’s application to the 147th Fighter Group at Ellington Air Force Base in Texas, Bush was asked what his “Area Assignment Preferences” were. Bush checked the box beside “Do Not Volunteer” for overseas duty.

Why Does The White House Say Bush Was On Base When Bush’s Superiors Had Filed A Report Saying He Was Gone For A Whole Year?

FACT: Bush’s Superiors Were Unable to Evaluate Him for a Full Year, Saying he “Has Not Been Observed at This Unit…”
May 2, 1973: Bush’s superior officers William D. Harris Jr. and Jerry B. Killian, wrote on his yearly evaluation form, “Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of report,” and that a “civilian occupation made it necessary for him to move to Montgomery, Alabama. He cleared this base on 15 May 1972 and has been performing equivalent training in a non flying status with the 187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama.”

…But the White House Claims Bush was on Base the Same Day Superiors Filed Report.
White House release says Bush paid on May 2, 1973, the very day his superiors reported, “Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of report.” <2nd Q 1973 pay record>

FACT: Bush’s Superior Officer Says He Would Have Known If Bush Had Reported for Duty.
November 12, 1973: Rufus G. Martin signed a report on Bush’s evaluation, saying Bush was “Not rated for the period 1 May 72 through 30 April 73.”

Boston Globe: “But retired colonel Martin, the unit's former administrative officer, said he too thought Bush had been in Alabama for that entire year. Harris and Killian, he said, would have known if Bush returned to duty at Ellington.”

Why Is The Pentagon Under Orders Not To Discuss Bush’s Record With Reporters?

FACT: Freedom of Information Officers Under Orders From Senior Pentagon Officials To Ignore Requests on Bush Files. According to the Spokane Spokesman-Review, “at the National Guard Bureau, now headed by a Bush appointee from Texas, officials last week said they were under orders not to answer questions. The bureau's chief historian said he couldn't discuss questions about Bush's military service on orders from the Pentagon. ‘If it has to do with George W. Bush, the Texas Air National Guard or the Vietnam War, I can't talk with you,’ said Charles Gross, chief historian for the National Guard Bureau in Washington, D.C. Rose Bird, Freedom of Information Act officer for the bureau, said her office stopped taking records requests on Bush's military service in mid-February and is directing all inquiries to the Pentagon. She would not provide a reason. Air Force and Texas Air National Guard officials did not respond to written questions about the issue. James Hogan, a records coordinator at the Pentagon, said senior Defense Department officials had directed the National Guard Bureau not to respond to questions about Bush's military records.”

-30-
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0427b.html

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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. LOL! Kerry's releasing more info on Bush*
than Bush* is
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. That's funny!
Thanks BLM. My wife gave me the heads up on this. It is awesome wicked good!
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yea!!!!
Hey - is this on Kerry's site? Please provide link - thanks!
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. is this an official release from the Kerry campaign?

would like a source/link before I start blasting it around...

isn't he doing Hardball tonight?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yes, it is. It's on his site.
.
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. got it! thanks. and...
sent it.

wonder if tweety got a copy yet....

Kerry IS on Hardball tonight.
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. here's a link to the actual release
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. link please...
...if he's taking Bush to task on this, bravo! We've got a lengthy 6 months to go, and we know Bush is relying upon the fact that his base is completely devoid of independent thought, so their only strategy is to depress voter turnout thru negativity.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. i did a lot of reading a couple months ago and ran into
records on his score

FACT: Bush Scored in 25th Percentile on Pilot Aptitude Test. When Bush applied for the Guard, his score on the Air Force pilot aptitude section, one of five on the test, was in the 25th percentile, the lowest allowed for would-be fliers.



i read that this had been white out and 25 was written on top of it. so i want to see what the number really was. needed 25, the lowest number to be accepted. i believe he got a lower number and it was changed.

just to remember
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Would love to see that.
I hadn't heard that detail before. Sounds like their typical m.o., though.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
49. Hey, I remember that too!
There were pdf documents linked here at DU that showed the suspicious mark out of some number, and a "25" placed there.

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. thumbs up
so this fourth time around we will dig a bit more up and remember this and as it comes out ask about it. to the media and bush
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. Beautiful, John! BRING IT ON!
Can't wait to see Hardball tonight... John Kerry assured us that a Max Cleland smear would never, ever happen again.

Bring It On, John!! Don't pull any punches. Take it to the President!!
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. took the words out of my mouth
:hi:
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
56. Hardball was great and ....
...Kerry rocked! I watched it earlier today and IMO if Kerry keeps the fire in him like this, HE WILL WIN!! :bounce:
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. let's see how the media handles it
in particular, ABC News.

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glarius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. Haha...little Georgie is going to wish he hadn't opened this can of worms
Methinks he's going to regret the day he started this!!!
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. John Kerry does have balls
afterall!
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
15. EVERYBODY blast this to everyone on their list. I want to see
as many copies of that in my email box as I've gotten about Hillary and Black Panthers. Blast it far and wide, and see if it comes back to you.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
16. Bring it On John - now let's see if the Press responds
Yeah right.

But this is the way to fight back. Escalate on these Bastards. Show you learned how to fight back!
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. He has already shwn that ... but here is the story from the NY Times...
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cybildisobedience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
54. does it strike anyone as odd....
That the candidate (if a Dem, of course) has to actually come UP with the questions the press should be asking, and post it on his website?
Did anyone have to come up with questions about Clinton's sex life?
I didn't think so....
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elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
18. The Bush team didn't know what they were getting into
when they started attacking Kerry's war record. They're not dealing with a Michael Dukakis or an Al Gore here. They're dealing with someone who knows how to fight back, and fight back hard.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. They didn't control those on the right who pushed the story.
I think they are making do. I don't believe Rove wanted the issue to go this far.

Rove is screwing up...he is under added pressure thanks to the Plame grand jury.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. Great! Finally on the attack! Now get media attention: go on AAR
Edited on Tue Apr-27-04 04:43 PM by robbedvoter
send press releases - whatever it takes - so more than DU-ers know this!
P.S> I'd go on Randi Rhodes if I was kerry - she has the largest audience and is the best!
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
20. YES!
That's the Kerry I've been waiting to see!

Just don't be like those fools in the slasher movies who stab the villian and then go make out in the corner. HE'S STILL ALIVE!

You have to stick him and TWIST the knife! Don't leave the knife in him, though. If he survives, you've given him a weapon. LOL!

Sorry for the graphic imagery, but it's just a metaphor. We are dealing with the (politically) UN-DEAD you know!
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LynzM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
21. Awesome!
Bookmarking and saving!

Anyone know if the show tonight is archived anywhere online?
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
22. FINALLY some fire in his belly!
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Gothmog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
24. Good Job
I like this list of questions. This is a good attack.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
25. Like, cool.
This makes me more enthusiastic about Kerry's candidacy.

Got . . . to . . . FIGHT!


And one of the smelliest things behind the gaps and holes in aWol's "record", and the enforced silence of the NG folks now, is none other than Major General Danny James, current Bush-appointed commander of the Air National Guard Bureau, and previously commander of the Texas Air National Guard (in 1997, when he is accused of ordering a cleanup of aWol's Texas records).

According to this Salon article by James G. Moore,

The documents given to Washington reporters were printed
from one of those two microfiches. According to two separate
sources within the Guard who saw the printout and spoke with
me, the microfiche was shipped to the office of Maj. Gen.
Danny James, commander of the Air National Guard Bureau
in
Arlington, Va. James' staff printed out all of the documents on
the film and then, according to those same sources, James
vetted the material. Subsequent to being scrutinized by James
(who commanded the Texas Guard and was promoted to
Washington by Bush,) the records were then sent to the White
House for further scrutiny prior to release to the news media.



http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/04/27/bush_guard/index.html

The article also points out that there is no evidence that Bush has ever signed the form requesting release of all his records, as others have done. One can only conclude that records exist that they really really do not want the public to see.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
:evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin:

Thanks, Senator Kerry!



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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. Good!
But now it needs media all over it.

Kerry & surrogates need to get on every TV show, network & cable to get this out.

If it just sits on Kerry s website, nobody sees it, but the people who are already voting for Kerry.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
27. America Needs To Raise Its Expectations Again
we can do so much better than the panty-waist, slacker Junior turned out to be.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
28. If the official Bush family coverup is to be believed, Georgie was...
...hanging out in Houston, doing community service, from shortly after Christmas of 1972 through sometime during the summer of 1973.

-snip-

By the end of 1972, Bush's father was mulling over a new job offer from Nixon – to be chairman of the Republican National Committee. With his parents back in Washington, Bush went to stay with them for the holidays and was involved in one of the most notorious incidents of his "nomadic" years. He took his 16-year-old brother Marvin out drinking, ran over a neighbor's garbage cans on the way home, and when his father confronted him, challenged him to go "mano a mano" outside.

There was no fight, and Bush was apparently able to mollify his father with the news that he had been accepted for the following fall at Harvard Business School. But with nothing to do until then, his father decided it was time to give this restless young man some broader exposure to real life.

Shortly after Christmas, Bush began working as a counselor with black youngsters in Houston's Third Ward in a program called PULL (Professionals United for Leadership) for Youth. The brainchild of the late John L. White, a former professional football player and civic leader, it was set up for kids up to 17 in a warehouse on McGowen Street and it offered sports, crafts, field trips and big-name mentors from the athletic, entertainment and business worlds.

Bush and his brother Marvin, who tagged along for the summer weeks, were the only whites in the place. "They stood out like a sore thumb," said Muriel Simmons Henderson, who was one of PULL's senior counselors. "John White was a good friend of their father. He told us that the father wanted George W. to see the other side of life. He asked John if he would put him in there."

Dressed in khaki, with his pants torn at the knees, Bush managed to fit right in. He "came early and stayed late," in the words of one former employee, playing basketball and wrestling with the youngsters, taking them on field trips to juvenile prisons so they could see that side of life and resolve not to end up there themselves. He also taught them not to run when a police cruiser came by.

-snip-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072899.htm
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
29. GOOOOOOOOO KERRY!!!!!!!
:kick: whiny wittle * in his bloated arse! :kick::cry:

Give it to him! Don't let up! Don't let them get off the defensive EVER AGAIN!
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frank frankly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
30. they did the media's job for them! go to go, JK!
he does know the media is against him!
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OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
31. Bawhahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!.....Kick ass John
Come on Chimp,why did you not take or REFUSE to take your medical exam in 72'??? Huh...Coked up just a bit??
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. A new angle on that medical exam, at least new to me:
As Iceburg posts in another DU thread:

Let's see if the media picks this up over the next few days

Origniator's name and location has be redacted (in keeping with the policies\habits of this administration)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: XXX
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 12:14 PM
> To: 'jconason@salon.com'
> Subject: Bush's mysterious grounding
>
> Mr. Conason,
>
> I am a neurologist in XXXX. I've just read your excellent article on
> Bush's Guard service (thanks by the way for for your excellent book "Big
> Lies" which i enjoyed immensely). Ever since reading Bob Woodward's
> description (in Plan of Attack) of an unusual event in which Bush suddenly
> "began speaking as though in a foreign language" and looking
> confused...I've wondered if Mr. Bush suffers from temporal lobe epilepsy.
> The description Woodward gives sound very much like Mr. Bush had what's
> known as a "complex partial seizure". Woodward's further mention of a
> medication the president takes twice daily and the secrecy with which this
> info is guarded are also very suggestive : there are a number of
> anti-epileptic medicationstaken on a b.i.d. (ie twice daily) schedule. I
> would think that the stigma associated with epilepsy (often undeservedly
> so) would make it something Bush's advisors would hush up.
>
> Certainly the hard-drinking Bush would have been at risk for worsening
> this condition (alcohol lowers the seizure threshold) and having ANY type
> of seizures would be an ABSOLUTE loss of flying status...therefore
> explaining the otherwise inexplicable lack of interest the Guard showed in
> finding out why he was grounding himself, thereby wasting all that
> expensive training. It might also explain why he skipped his
> physical...wouldn't want the nasty "e-word" (epilepsy) in his file. For
> that matter, perhaps worsening seizure control was the ultimate reason he
> finally stopped drinking...by that time, however, he may well have had
> mesial temporal sclerosis...which would have perpetuated the seizures even
> in the absence of ongoing alcohol consumption.
>
> Furthermore, it might explain his habit of "early to bed' (sleep
> deprivation would put him at risk for further public seizures). There are
> a number of his personal traits that have been linked to temporal lobe
> epilepsy (his hyper-religiosity, his sometimes confused look, his frequent
> verbal mis-steps, ...perhaps even his avoidance of live interviews).
>
> I of course have no solid first hand evidence whatsoever of this, it's
> just something that occurred to me (as a Neurologist) while reading
> Woodward's book.
>
> Dr. XXXXXX



This may also put the 'pretzel incident' in a new light.

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OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Hmmm,interesting but James Bath also refused at the same time...
Both lost flying status AFAIK. Why would Bath loose his along with Bush? I still think the boys had something in the blood stream and it sure wasn't alcohol.

If Bush was having seizures that far back you'd think someone outside the loop might have seen him and said something about it.

Interesting....

David
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I still think he got busted for using the Guard plane
for flying plants from Florida to the "agricultural business" he worked for..

I would think that would be a no-no.. He said it himself.. and probably Bath was involved too..
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cmf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
32. You get 'em, Kerry!
Kerry's got cajones! :toast:
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CityDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
36. This is stupid
Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, Kerry should take his lumps on the medal issue and move on. It may be hard for a proud man (Kerry) to do, but he is keeping these issue alive and that is not good. If Kerry had just shut up and moved on, it would die out and go away. And surely it looks bad for Kerry to be directly attacking Bush on the Guard issue - this is what surrogates do, not the candidate. It makes Kerry look petty, small and vindictive.

Kerry has some very strong issues in the area of the economy, jobs, and the mismanagement of the Iraq war. These are BIG issues where W* is vulnerable. Wrestling in the mud with Karen Hughes may feel good (ugh!!!), but it is bad strategy.
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. nope ....
it stands in stark contrast to Bush's personal cowardice. He has always .... ALWAYS ...throughout his entire life, depended on other people to carry his water. He is far too chickenshit to fight his own battles and his hiding behind Karen Hughes just makes him look even more pathetic.

Kerry is doing EXACTLY right.
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. HAHAHAHAHAHA--you're joking, right?
I mean, really...you're not serious, are you?

"Take his lumps" for WHAT? And SOMEBODY needs to take it to Bush--Bush has been wallowing in the mud from day one, and if Kerry wants to take the fight to him face to face, it's sure as hell not going to hurt him.
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. Wrong.
You're kidding, right?
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TomNickell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #36
53. You have a point, but....
with these guys, I think you have to play rough. Let one thing slide, they will think up something more ridiculous.

It would be best if somebody other than Kerry could make the attack, but it wasn't happening.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #36
57. Were you a Dukakis advisor, CityDem?
Sounds like it.
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CityDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
38. JFK - Really Dumb Move
Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, Kerry should take his lumps on the medal issue and move on. It may be hard for a proud man (Kerry) to do, but he is keeping these issue alive and that is not good. If Kerry had just shut up and moved on, it would die out and go away. And surely it looks bad for Kerry to be directly attacking Bush on the Guard issue - this is what surrogates do, not the candidate. It makes Kerry look petty, small and vindictive.

Kerry has some very strong issues in the area of the economy, jobs, and the mismanagement of the Iraq war. These are BIG issues where W* is vulnerable. Wrestling in the mud with Karen Hughes may feel good (ugh!!!), but it is bad strategy.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I disagree. That is Rove's goal with the Kerry attacks...
to hit hard and unfair so that Kerry won't go after Bush's National Guard record. Well the strategy has backfired and now Bush has tons of explaining to do.
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Rebellious Republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. I agree with you Junkdrawer, we do not need another Al Gore to
Edited on Tue Apr-27-04 06:16 PM by Rebellious Republica
play nice. These Rat Bastards are not nice, have we not learned from "2000" CityDem. The rules of politics were changed by Rove in 2000, Its time to play by there Fucking rules!
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Yep. Without the attacks, Kerry couldn't have gone after Bush...
without seeming mean and somewhat of a braggart. Now, Kerry can be as aggressive as he wants and it will be seen as simply defending his honor. Bad move Rove....
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. see my response above ...
Bush doesn't have the scruff to take Kerry on in this himself. It makes him look like the weak punk he is when he steadily hides behind his mama's skirts, his daddy's pant leg, and Karen Hughes mouth.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. He needs her skirt so bad he had to call her back from her chirren in TX.
Poor things.

Kerry is dead on. This is the time-honored method for handling a bully. Rove, your toes are dirty.



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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #38
48. Actually it was Bush who made the wrong move.
His failure to report and take his physical died a natural death. The media covered it briefly and then buried it "no news here folks, move along." They didn't cover it in 2000 and they didn't want to cover it in this campaign either so it was resting peacefully until Rove gave a perfect reason to resurrect it.

Bush should give a full explanation of what happened or leave 30 years ago in the past.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #38
58. "Gov. Dukakis, responding to Willie Horton ad is beneath you."
"You should move on from the Horton ad. You should move on from the tank ad. You have strong issue to discuss. Don't get caught wrestling in the mud with them."
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
47. I've publicly offered these flash attack ads for FREE to Kerry..
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
50. Remember how Bill Clinton got his start? Jerry Brown attacked...
Hillary and Bill took him apart. I think Bush (Rove) may have just made the same mistake...
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
52. Kick
:kick:
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
55. JEEZ, I just submitted a whole article on how he should ASK QUESTIONS
to Buzzflash!!!!

I feel very smart......................
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
59. kick
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