Specter WINS

[Dookus]

just announced on FOX.

edited title.

[Syrinx]

1. is this good or bad?

Specter is better than his opponent, but the Dem would have a better chance of beating the opponent, I think. So, is Specter's victory good or bad?

[Kitsune]

2. Yes. *nt*

[Dookus]

4. I think it's good

the worst case scenario is a moderate republican goes back to the senate. The worster (yeah, I know) case is a nutcase who makes Santorum look normal gets a seat.

A bird in the hand and all that....

[calimary]

11. Better the devil you know. It would be awful to have Santorum and

Santorum Redux covering the state. And we couldn't get rid of him for six years. Good riddance, Toomey. Same effect happened here in CA during the legitimate election. They put a knuckle-dragger, the pointy-headed, beady-eyed, ultra-conservative simian Bill Simon up against Gray Davis. Davis won, even as much as people were not thrilled with him. YES we now have Schwarzengroper from the recall. But Schwarzengroper is at least a moderate on some things, as opposed to a complete card-carrying neanderthal like Simon was. Radical conservatives or hardliners DO NOT SUCCEED in California. And we don't need two-of-a-kind in any other state, either.

Now, you guys need to get Santorum out of there in two years. Worthless rubber-stamping bastard.

[loudsue]

5. This is good.

There are a bunch of people on this board tonite who think they are strategic geniuses who have been rooting for the right wing extremist ... thinking SOMEHOW in their little pea-brains that a wingnut might be picked-off by the Dem candidate.

Specter is the repub. that the repubs love to hate, because he's voted with the Dems so often. I don't care what strategy some think is "great" for the Dem....if it risks another right wing extremist a CHANCE at an office....well, we know how they play. He'd probably end up winning in November, and we'd have another extreme right winger voting for a supreme court judge whose as bad as Scalia.

I'm glad Specter won. If the Dem is worth his salts, he'll beat Specter. If he's not, we still haven't lost everything.

:kick:

[Dookus]

7. thank you loudsue...

I agree entirely.

I honestly have little objection to "Rockefeller" republicans. America would be much better off if every republican was like Specter.

[Syrinx]

31. One bone I have to pick with the Rockefeller republicans

The draconian drug laws in New York. They're as bad as the ones down here in the south. Maybe worse, I haven't researched it lately.

[Dookus]

41. agreed...

but I grew up in NY under Rockefeller, and on the whole, we'd all be a helluva lot better off if all republicans were like him.

[Syrinx]

44. No doubt about that

Rockefeller > Bush.

I agree with that, definitely.

[Dookus]

46. indeed...

but I also think it's unfair that the potheads (of which I'm one) refer to NY's laws as the "rockefeller laws".

The laws have been there for a long, long time, and Rockefeller wasn't particularly egregious on the issue. They use the term, IMO, to indicate that they're antiquated. And I agree. But it's a bum rap on Rockefeller.

[Syrinx]

9. are you calling me a "peabrain?"

If so, that's not very nice.

[loudsue]

19. I apologize, syrinx9999...

I shouldn't have said "pea-brain".

:kick:

[Syrinx]

24. accepted

Now, let's kick some Republican ass! :D

[loudsue]

25. You got it!

:hi::loveya::party::silly:

And I hope everyone sees that the NASTY repukes....the really NASTY ones, know they got their butts kicked tonite. The Freepers are all in mourning...so you know it's good.

We'll continue to kick the extremists out of every office they ever HOPED to hold!!

:kick:

[mvd]

10. Thing is, Santorum won a long time ago

Height of that stupid Revolution and Contract On America. But yes, I can never be disappointed when a nut like Toomey loses.

[markses]

17. Absolutely correct: the "Let's Go Toomey" crowd here

was playing a very risky game with the people of Pennsylvania on the hook. Rather than a Toomey win, we've had a severe repudiation of hard right politics in a swing state, meaning Bush will have to campaign moderate here. Out of 3.2 million Republican voters, a little over a million voted, and this was the most publicized election in year. That's 1/3rd. And, let's not forget, low turnout was supposed to favor Toomey's "fired up" supporters. It is a disaster for the conservatives and neo-cons tonight, and they damn well know it.

Meanwhile, over 750,000 voted in a non-issue Democratic primary, just to do it. Very bad results for the Bush team in PA tonight.

[Prodemsouth]

18. Many political observers with a reservoir of election knowledge must

have pea brains. I guess they are just don't have the knowledge you do about these things.

[loudsue]

23. Those same political observers are probably advising Kerry right now

And we're trying to wean him off of them, as well.

:kick:

[Prodemsouth]

33. That is assumption you are making. That is like me saying to you: Bush

wanted Specter to win, glad your both on the same page. I am assuming you want the same things as Bush by making that statement. (Something I don't really believe). Are you seeing the absurd position here?

[LynneSin]

8. This is bad

Hoeffel would have definately beat Toomey.

:cry:

[Dookus]

I think

there was nothing "definite" about that.

I'll take a Specter/Hoeffel race. A state that would elect Santorum would elect Toomey.

We're better off this way.

[Prodemsouth]

28. Look up the history of the Santorum wins - poor opponents. 94 was a

good year for Repugs remember. 2000, poor Democratic opponent again -Dem party divided. Santorum was a much quieter Senator his freshman year than he is now. Gore also won the state the same year he won his second term (What does that tell you?) It means most Penn voters probably did not know Santorum was as conservative as they now know.

[MoonRiver]

20. Maybe strategically its not as good,

but in principle I can't help but be glad. The less those rightwing thugs get in terms of credibility the better. At least the Pa Repugs have demonstrated there will be no fascist take-over of their party this year.

[proud patriot]

3. it pisses Freepers off , so I'm jubilant

:bounce:

[Mz Pip]

6. Whenever a RW looney loses

it works for me. In the current unpredictable political climate there would be no guarrantee that Toomey would have lost in November.

MzPip
:dem:

[calimary]

12. Exactly. One less wingnut to worry about.

Arlen is certainly the lesser of two evils. And now, he's weakened. So it still might be the Democrat's game in November.

[RamboLiberal]

14. I agree - much to my surprise I was rooting for Specter tonight

I'm hoping the wingnuts will sit home and lick their wounds in November in PA. And meanwhile I don't think Specter will hurt Kerry. Dems in PA may just be angry enough to send Specter packing in November. And moderate Dems and Repubs might vote for Specter and Kerry.

And if Kerry wins and since I think this may be Specter's last run, he could well play the Repub voice of reason in the Senate with Kerry as the President. If that would be his final term, then he could thumb his nose at the wingnuts, and this battle may make him inclined to do so.

[calimary]

22. Man, you can say that again.

No guarantee that Toomey would have lost in November. I'll take my chances with Arlen Specter. At least he's not a complete knuckle-dragger.

[markses]

13. 3.2 Million Registered republicans in PA. A little over a million voted...

...in the most ad-bought and publicized primary in years, with Bush in PA every other week. One-third. And Toomey STILL lost!

I'd expect that the "Republican Wing" of the Republican Party is a little more concerned about the turnout problem here than they are about the results. The conservative couldn't take this thing with 33% turnout, and they were supposed to be the "fired-up" ones? Watch Bushie tack HARD LEFT to get back to something like a center right position for November. This vote is a repudiation of the hard-right position in Pennsylvania. Nothing to be upset about.

[Dookus]

15. But Bush endorsed Specter...

so I don't know what we can learn from this. I'm just happy we've eliminated the possibility of a Senator Toomey.

[markses]

21. And his endorsement did what?

Did it turn out people in droves for Specter, previously thought to be the way Specter could win? No. Low turn-out for the GOP primary. And did Specter blow out Toomey? No. Damn close. So what is the value of Bush's endorsement in PA? Very little.

Somebody is throwing the panic switch over these results in the WH war room. They'll spin it as a Bush victory, but remember also that Toomey surged in the polls after Bush's endorsement. Very bad for Mr. Bush tonight.

[Dookus]

26. well...

Specter won. So we have no way of knowing what his endorsement did.

[markses]

29. We do have a way of knowing what it did NOT do

It did not spark a high turnout.
It did not pull Specter out of a very tight race.

These are facts.

[Dookus]

32. but it may very well have

pulled Specter out of a tight race. He won. It was tight. We have no way to know if Bush had no effect.

I'll repeat my position: we're better off not risking a Senator Toomey.

[markses]

35. It is my position as well

Toomey was a lunatic and I'm glad he didn't win. But there is other good news here. That is my position. And it is clear: This primary, given all its fanfare and endless ads, had remarkably low turnout among GOPers. That speaks poorly for Bush's chances in PA in the fall. Second, the fact that Specter won even with the low turnout demonstrates a repudiation of the extreme right in PA. Third, if Bush's endorsement is so magical, Specter should have won by 5-8%. He did not. So on both those counts, while we may not know the detailed effects of Bush's endorsement, we can see that it was not as effective as it should have been, given his supposed godlike status among Republicans. His guy, an incumbent, barely squeaked it out.

[Dookus]

38. then we agree...

I think this is a good sign for Kerry.

[Prodemsouth]

37. I will repeat my position - that was not going to happen if he won tonight

no way. Hofel would have really had tpo blow it.

[ParanoidPat]

16. LOL! ***With 300.75% of the statewide voting districts currently reporting

http://web.dos.state.pa.us/perl/elections/elec_results/dsf/statewide1.cgi?choice=USS&eyear=2004&etype=P

Unofficial 2004 General Primary Results
United States Senator
***300.75% of the statewide voting districts currently reporting***
*** Election results were last updated at 12:33:19 AM on 04/28/2004 ***

To view a county-wide breakdown for a particular candidate, click that candidate's name.
For a county breakdown of the office, select the "County Breakdown for ..." link.

Candidate Votes

HOEFFEL, JOSEPH M. (DEM) 513,884

TOOMEY, PAT (REP) 480,608

SPECTER, ARLEN (REP) 587,720

[gauguin57]

27. In other PA news ...

Scott Paterno, son of famed Penn State football coach Joe Paterno, won the Repug. nom. for a central PA house seat (will face incumbent Dem. Tim Holden). JoePaterno is buddy-buddy with George Bush Sr. JoePa campaigned for G.H.W. Bush. I'm sure Scott will enjoy great support from the Bush clan.

I may throw up.

[markses]

30. JoePa built a Library full of Commie Books and funds a chair in the

English department at Penn State. So I forgive him. By his deeds you shall know him, etc. ;-)

[Bozita]

36. Good for JoePa's library donations ... Piss on his kid

[Syrinx]

34. I've always liked Paterno

Sad to hear he's a 'pug.

[ParanoidPat]

39. Something strange is going on in PA tonight.....

.....This page is showing,
***161.42% of the statewide voting districts currently reporting***
*** Election results were last updated at 01:08:59 AM on 04/28/2004 ***

http://web.dos.state.pa.us/perl/elections/elec_results/dsf/county2.cgi?eyear=2004&etype=P&office=USS

:shrug: Somethings not quite right in the way the results were coming back this evening. From a "landslide" earlier to what looked like an upset then back to a win just outside the margin that would trigger a recount? Hmmmmmm :tinfoilhat:

[Syrinx]

that is strange, Pat

I admit I'm a bit paranoid, too. Lot of stuff to be paranoid about these days, IMHO.

[Prodemsouth]

40. Have any of you Specter supporters thought that Specter might move to

the right? He will want to woe those voters back- which is more likely to happen now.

[ButterflyBlood]

43. He doesn't need to

this is most likely going to be his last term. He was shifting to the right during the primary, he'll likely shift back now.

[Prodemsouth]

45. Why - he is going to need many of these Toomey voters to win in

November, to serve this last term you have just granted him. You better hope like hell one of the Supremes does not decide to throw in the towel before November.

[Dookus]

47. yes...

this is his last term. And if he wins, it's a victory for moderates.

[Momof1]

42. Update on the site

***84.03% of the statewide voting districts currently reporting***
*** Election results were last updated at 01:08:59 AM on 04/28/2004 ***