Freepers Splitting over Torture Photos

[LeftHander]

I spent a few minutes to read the responses to a breaking news article in freeperland on the torture of Iraqi prisoners exposed by CBS recently.

As would be expected there is shock, sadness and outrage over the photos. Mixed in however is denial and justification. The very first post was several large pictures of 911 victims plummeting to their death from the WTC. (made my stomach turn how the justification for war is a attack that still has MANY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS)

There were a few mentions of "bad apples" and some vets chimed in that the potential for this activity has existed and left unchecked would raise it's head.

There was definitely a small group convinced it was a Dem political smear.

For sure this is a issue that highlights the broad spectrum of the horror of war. And reason again why war is not the answer.


Peace.

[kiahzero]

1. If/when Kerry talks about it

will he be attacked as not sufficiently supporting the troops? After all, this is along the lines of the Winter Soldier investigation that VVAW did, and conservatives are still attacking him over that.

[Walt Starr]

19. If/when Kerry talks about it I hope

he has the courage to talk about how this is an example of what will happen in these types of situation when there is a lack of clear leadership. Then he can point out how real leadership must come from the top!

This can be dumped in Shrubass*'s lap so easily.

[kiahzero]

20. Exactly

While the individuals in question are ultimately responsible, we know what happens when you put regular people in inhuman situations.

http://www.prisonexp.org/
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/relaged/970108prisonexp.html

[Loonman]

2. Freepers are very simple-minded

They use the WTC to justify anything, at any time.

For political gain, of course.

[prodigal_green]

7. Sure, and if it had been

anybody involved with 9/11, I probably would've stood up, cheered and nominated the soldiers for the Congressional Medal of Honor.

These guys actually believe their own 9/11-Iraq crap?

Talk about willpower in the face of overwhelming evidence!

[Jacobin]

10. Yeah. It's bizarre to hear them

When I confronted my ex mother in law about it, she pulled out the 9/11 card, I reminded her that Iraq had nothing to do with it and she said "Yeah, but those A-Rabs all stick together"

What the F---??????

These people are dangerous psychopathic freakazoids.

[RapidCreek]

15. Your ex mother in law knows allot about Arabs?

That's what I'd of asked her...Then I'd have said...You mean like Iran and Iraq? Like Kuwait and Iraq? Like Egypt and Saudi Arabia (North Yemen Civil War)....Yep one has to admit they are a real close knit group.

RC

[Jacobin]

17. It does absolutely no good to argue with or discuss

issues with a freeper. They are fundamentalist mantra spewers and they don't use their brains to reason or examine facts.

I gave up long ago, but occassionally, I'll relapse in a moment of weakness and try to discuss something with one. It doesn't take long to realize its just pissing in the wind.

(obviously, "they" don't all stick together. In fact "they" probably have as many disagreements among "themselves" as we do.)

[Ladyhawk]

26. You're right.

I have trouble discerning whether or not to waste my energy on certain people. I've come to the conclusion that fundamentalists are mostly a waste of time. If they ever come around, it will take years of chipping away at their "wall of truth."

[RapidCreek]

27. yea....of course you are correct

None the less...it's fun to point out to them how ignorant they are! While some seem to take a great deal of pride in their stupidity...I'm sure it still hurts to have someone make an issue of it. Nothing pleases me more that being called an elitist. I always respond..."Why thank you....yes I am superior to you...in every way. You shouldn't dwell on it though...you'll make it clear to everyone you suffer from an inferiority complex. What you should do is listen and learn...maybe if you inform yourself someone will complement your intellect one day! Then again I wouldn't hold my breath...."

RC

[Ladyhawk]

25. How incredibly sad. :(

I feel like I'm a lone voice in the wilderness of such crazy thinking. And no one respects me because of my past of dealing with severe Depression. They think I'm the crazy one, but I think I'm seeing things quite clearly.

How could anyone justify torture in the name of the WTC? The Iraqis had nothing to do with it. Even if they were the people directly responsible, I couldn't support torture. Sorry. It just isn't the right thing to do.

[radwriter0555]

3. I am always astounded at the massive freeper denial of truth and respon-

sibility.

I honestly don't understand how they can be so completely in denial about the corruption and deception of the bush administration. It seriously appears as if they have a mental disorder rendering them incapable of viewing the current reality.

Their mental state is undeniably identical to the citizens of nazi germany who daily denied anything bad was happening in that factory behind their house, or to those trainloads of jews that disappeared.

Is this is a diagnosed mental condition that's ever been addressed?

I'm not being facetious... I'm alarmed.

[LeftHander]

4. Continuous Conditioning by RW Radio

And distraction by rampant consumerism.

[radwriter0555]

6. I have visions of walmart shoppers subjected to subliminal messages

or something.

[Christ was Socialist]

i think it is a mental disorder

i have noticed some resemblence between them and htose who are zealous with the supernatural, no matter how many paranormal stories get debunked, they still sit with a quija believing it's the dead talking and not a psychological response

[Christ was Socialist]

5. i think it is a mental disorder

i have noticed some resemblence between them and htose who are zealous with the supernatural, no matter how many paranormal stories get debunked, they still sit with a quija believing it's the dead talking and not a psychological response

[htuttle]

8. Well, Wilhelm Reich came up with a description of the syndrome

Read his 'Mass Psychology of Fascism'. It was banned and burned by the FDA in the 1950s, but you can get reprints nowdays.

In a nutshell, it comes down to diverting the energy from sexual repression into channels convenient for the leaders to control and manipulate. He provides far more discussion and analysis than I just did, however.

edit: speling

on edit2:

You know, I wonder what Reich would say about Faux News?

Probably "I told you so". He was a very bitter man by the time he died in a US prison.

[maggrwaggr]

28. thanks for the tip. Gonna check that out. n/t

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

31. Another book like that is --

"The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements" by Eric Hoffer, written in 1951. I found it at Borders in paperback, so it's in print, and boy, do those freepers and dittoheads fit his descriptions!

[prolesunited]

14. It's all about cognitive dissonance

Current reality threatens their entire world view and underlying foundation. I think there are studies that show conservative see the world in absolute terms — it's black or white, no shades of gray.

When a relativist is presented with complex information and situations, they can process it in a way that sees relationships, connections, half truths, etc.

However, an absolutist cannot hold two contradictory ideas or perceptions simultaneously in their mind. This creates mental overload (dissonance). And the person experiencing it seeks relief. For them, the only option is discarding one of the conflicting ideas. Fed a steady diet of lies by Fox, Drudge, Limbaugh, etc., they discard the truth for a lie because the lies sound much better.

Well, that's how I would explain it FWIW.

[maggrwaggr]

30. It seems like a form of mass schizophrenia

Anything that doesn't support their views is a lie, or made up by their opponents (evolution, for instance).

It's all very similar to people who believe that UFOs are following them around and men in black want to impregnate them and shit like that. Schizophrenics such as this always have a way out --- such as "well, they erased the memories of the other people that were there" or whatever.

RWers do the exact same thing. It's very disturbing.

[pinniped]

9. Some stupid gunnuts are claiming CBS made it up.

Those morans have been sniffing waaaaaaaay too much gun powder.

Interestingly there were a couple that condemned the action. But the sad majority was either in denial or said the prisoners deserved it.

[robbedvoter]

11. Split? Some think it's exciting, some that it's righteous?

Aren't they happy we are # 1? :shrug:

[cynic4life]

22. actually I think

they just like looking at pictures of naked men.

[MichaelHarris]

12. they are incredibly simple-minded

they still think Iraq was involved in 9-11. Even their own appointed president tells them on TV, there is no evidence to link Iraq to 9-11 they still fall back on that old tired horse. Fox has been doing it all morning, maybe thats where they get their misguided information.

[riverwalker]

13. inside the freeper mind (scarey)

9/11 done by "feriners"-> bomb some other feriners-> Saddam tortured his own people->US tortures the same people->US good/feriners bad.

[drfemoe]

16. Convenient morality

<snip>
Lawson, acting as a family spokesman, said Frederick and the other MPs were ordered to ``loosen up the prisoners'' for interrogation. Lawson speculated that the MPs took the photographs to show to other prisoners to get them to talk.

``That probably is a violation of some directive, yes it is, I would agree, but if you use it to get information that's going to save American lives, I have to weigh those two things,'' Lawson said.
<end>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4037563,00.html

It is astonishing that ANYONE would believe this kind of thing "saves American lives", and EVEN IF IT DID (which it does not!), that would excuse it! whoosh's* "us against them" ideology works well with the freeper mind.

[qb]

24. Remember the recent mainstream debate about the U.S. using torture

"to save American lives"? Even Alan Dershowitz promoted the idea http://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/03/03/cnna.Dershowitz/

Now everyone is shocked... SHOCKED! that this has come to pass?

[KharmaTrain]

18. Can You Believe It? Freeper Angst????

I never thought I'd really start seeing this happen, but a couple issues this week are tearing Freeperland apart.

First was the Kerry military smears by Chenney and others...it just brings up Bunnypants and others non-military past and puts a light on the war going on now...tying the two together. There are some who want this issue to go away...cause Junior's AWOL is sticking in the craw of some...no matter how they refute it. It's too big a hypocrisy on a critical issue to ignore.

Next was the casket photos and the woman fired. What disrepect? It was touching for many to see the caskets and flags and then reflect on what these people died for. To some freepers this meant a good thing...ya know, the heroes coming home...especially to those who served and lost a buddy or families that have lost someone themselves. Yes, they want privacy, but also the honors of being recognized in one form or another for the sacrafice they made. Chickenhawks can't understand this since it requires having true compassion...they're way to arrogant and ignorant.

Lastly is the ABC/Sinclair mess. Even the deepest cool-aid drinker can't say this wasn't partisan on behalf of Sinclair and done for the wrong reasons. Showing the names, their rank and the day they died is paying respect...this isn't showing the pictures of their dead bodies being hung from a bridge or tortured in a jail (ooops, wrong topic)...it's the television version of the Vietnam Wall or a newspaper or magazine showing these heroes/victims on their pages.

Now I hear Chenney has endorsed Faux...picking a fave. What a smart move that is. It's like Paul Tagliabue coming out rooting for the Dallas Cowboys. If this doesn't pull the last shreads away from "Fair & Balance", I don't know what will. Here's hoping the other networks are pissed.

[KensPen]

21. Did we Utilize Saddam's Rape Rooms?

Or did we waste tax payer money in building our own?







I am glad our war against "evil doers" is so sharply focused.

[Jacobin]

23. Actually, this took place in a jail where Saddam's alleged

tortures took place.

So, we just used his old torture chambers.

[seemslikeadream]

29. Use PMCs - where no one can be held accountable