An ugly angle to consider in this torture scandal

[WilliamPitt]

The pictures of this torture have made the global rounds. Smart money says they have been reprinted extensively in local Iraqi papers and on flyers. This will have accomplished two things:

1. Brought even more people out to fight against us;

2. Made it certain that any American soldiers captured or taken hostage will be tortured in retribution for these photos.

It's the second one that twists my stomach. God help the next 19 year old private who gets grabbed by Iraqi fighters.

Thanks, George.

[ArkDem]

1. My guess is that that 19 year old private is screwed before or after

the pictures.

[GirlinContempt]

13. Why?

..

[ArkDem]

37. Maybe because being held as a prisoner by people

who hate you isn't fun. Do you think he would have been wined and dined before the pictures?

[Generator]

2. Yes that's exactly what I thought this morning

It's all over Iraqi TV according to my cable stations. I fear for our soldiers even more. It's a nightmare for everyone. Brought on by who?

Read my private contractors piece.

[Skittles]

3. it's a disgrace

I didn't think things could get much worse after illegally invading, bombing and occupying a country. Now we are resorting to humiliateion and torture? Even if these are isolated incidents (PLEASE) it's just despicable.

[Bandit]

23. Being broadcast around the world means it ain't isolated anymore.

I pity the next American female prisoner especially. Males also but for an American female to humiliate a Muslim male like is depicted in the pictures has the effect of humiliating the entire Muslim nation. Our soldiers are in for a horrible ordeal if ever captured.

[SemperEadem]

32. We have gone from decimating their country with bombs and bullets

to decimating their customs and beliefs by humiliating them in front of the whole world. Those pictures struck at the heart of how they consider themselves with regards to their spiritual beliefs. Those who were moderates will surely now abandon that stance and go for "vendetta".

It's personal, now.

[Karenina]

47. GET THEM THE FUCK OUT OF THERE.

[VolcanoJen]

53. Amen!!! (n/t)

[arcos]

58. right... this is NOT isolated...

the MSNBC article has some very interesting bits:

"
Frederick also wrote that he questioned some of the abuses. "I questioned this and the answer I got was: This is how military intelligence wants it done," he wrote.

...

Karpinski also described a high-pressure atmosphere that prized successful interrogations. A month before the alleged abuses occurred, she said, a team of military intelligence officers from the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, came to Abu Ghraib last year. "Their main and specific mission was to get the interrogators -- give them new techniques to get more information from detainees," she said.

...

According to a source familiar with the March findings of an administrative review conducted by the Army, the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade, which helped oversee the questioning of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, pressed members of the military police unit, 372nd Military Police Company, to use rough tactics to prepare prisoners for questioning.

...
"


I think it is very obvious... sadly, this is the way the military has usually worked in most places around the world, and at most times in history. There is no reason whatsoever to think otherwise... this is what war creates.


on edit:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4880919/

[flowomo]

4. And don't forget Bush's beloved claim about Saddam the "torturer"...

this isn't in the same league for qualtity (or quality) but it knocks the hell off the righteous high ground.

[bobthedrummer]

5. This helps the causes of both Osama Bin-Laden and PNAC

increased anti-Americanism worldwide, and an increased level of attacks on US forces-that's treasonous enough for me!

George W. Bush aka The War President is employing MERCENARIES with our taxes, these MERCENARIES are also big political contributors
http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/resources.aspx?act=contrib

Again, imo, it's treason and high crimes.

[DinahMoeHum]

6. Piss-poor leadership and training all around. . .

Heads had damn well better roll on this one, and I don't mean just the enlisted men and women who were involved. Where were their NCOs and officers during all this?

Pretty damn disgusting. . .and that's an understatement.


:argh:

[AlinPA]

19. It all starts at the top. Arrogance. "My God is better than your God"

and all that crap that goes with Bush*'s crowd.

[Skittles]

24. yep

everyone arguing over who has the better imaginary friend.

[soleft]

7. Remember the Mark Walberg scene in 3 Kings

Multiply that by 100K

[Southpaw Bookworm]

14. Which one?

It's been a few years since I've seen that movie, and I'm blanking on specific scenes with Wahlberg.

Gracias!

[DrWeird]

22. I'm assuming the ones where Iraqis are electrocuting him.

And he spits out his own teeth.

More to the point, the Iraqi torturer tells Wahlberg it was Americans who taught him how to torture people.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

26. Ah yes.

It's coming back to me now. Thank you DrWeird!

[bpilgrim]

42. here's a GRAPHIC

we've been thinkng the same thing...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1508467&mesg_id=1509038

peace

[VolcanoJen]

54. F'n great film, "Three Kings." We should all revisit it.

Excellent reference, soleft!!!

As an aside, don't you wonder about the wealth of material and future films provided us by this horrific endeavor...?

[ChickMagic]

8. The second one

is the very first thing I thought about. I was physically ill when I first saw the pictures.

[VelmaD]

9. #1 is bad enough but #2...

is the reason I didn't sleep last night.

Have I mentioned that we are SO fucked?

[Amaya]

10. As if there wasn't enough anti-Americanism in the Muslim world

Let alone worldwide. This could very well be the nail in the coffin :(

[Ironpost]

11. man it sucks

this feeling of hopeless, i just wished that we would wake out of this nightmare, and we'd find president Gore at the helm. i don't understand, i've always woke up before.

[supernova]

12. Yep, sad to say

I think you're right Will.

We've guaranteed the mistreatment of our own soldiers. Ultimately, it further erodes the credibility of international law.

[havocmom]

15. You forgot the third thing, Will. Not like you to miss something

Since our troops now face increasing danger from even more enraged Iraqis, our options are further limited. We have been taken further into the morass with ever decreasing paths out of it. Rage will increase on both sides and horrors will continue to escalate. Attention is diverted from more damning revelations about the neocons.

Our troops are being held hostage by the criminal junta in D.C. As news reports keep getting worse for the junta, cancerous horrors in Iraq compete with for page one. Our troops are held hostage by the malAdministration in a shell game. Some foreign policy.

[Pathwalker]

16. Am I still just paranoid for thinking that this is

perfectly okay for the Bush Neo-cons, that it helps their agenda too? After all, so far, even most of the Mid-East has shown a decided reluctance to engage in the Bush's desire for Armageddon. SOMETHING was needed to fan the flames higher, so...maybe this will work. If they gave a damn about the Iraqis or the American soldiers, they never would have started this war. I'm not buying coincidence here.

[ACK]

17. Damn good points Will

God help us all....

You can chalk up the next big attack on US soil to the hate that this horrible act has sown among the followers of Islam all over the world.

+

[KissMyAsscroft]

18. Well, judging by the mutilated contractors...

I don't think the Iraqis need any excuse to torture anyone...

[bpilgrim]

44. they obviously KNEW more than us IGNORANT folks 'safe' at home

thousands of miles away... guess it takes a while for the news to travel, eh?

peace

[wicket]

20. I feel sick to my stomach

:(

[Walt Starr]

21. One point about number 2

That is not confined to just actions in the Middle East.

Those pictures will haunt U.S. Service people for decades to come.

[WillyT]

25. On Hell Will...

Don't forget about the precedent and example we set regarding 'enemy combatants'!!!

No lawyer, no family visitation, no judge, no jury, no POW status...

We fucked ourselves and our service men and women... BUT GOOD!!!

GOD DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:grr::nuke::mad:

[WillyT]

27. Oops... That Was Supposed To Be, "Oh Hell, Will..."

Sorry.

:silly:

[ShaneGR]

28. Of course

Yup

[AP]

29. It's an endless cycle. I bet you the army fills US soldiers' heads with

stories about Americans who were captured and raped in the first gulf war, and they show them pictures of and remind them about those Americans strung up on that bridge.

Of course, Private Lynch should count her lucky stars that her timing was as it was.

[Junkdrawer]

30. Why do I get the feeling that, deep in the bowels of the White House,

there's a small group of guys asking "What do we have to do to get these guys to declare a Jihad?"

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

34. So, this is a MIHOP in progress. You know, it actually makes sense. (nt)

[spooked]

35. you are so clever

that makes perfect sense...really

[Forkboy]

40. I've been thinking the same thing

:scared:

[bpilgrim]

43. put saddam back in?!

or one of his generals...


:shrug:

peace

[kentuck]

31. With the Internet, pictures can go around hte world in a matter of minutes

The world has changed.

[scottxyz]

33. Why do they hate us?

They hate our freedoms!

[Catherine Vincent]

36. I'm praying that #2 won't happen.

How did these pictures get out? Does anyone know?

[RPM]

38. Let the Iraqis try these 'soldiers'

I am sure they will render a just verdict.

Would certainly send a message to the other US soldiers holding Iraqi captives.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

39. Thanks, to the 156 who said "Nay."

133 House. 23 Senate.

[warrior1]

41. Isn't there

a missing American now? If he's still alive.

All of this fucking mess lays squarely on bush's shoulders. He incited are troops, told lies and gave a green light to do this.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

45. Oh, Chimp deserves the blame.

But there were 373 co-conspirators.

[stanwyck]

46. My blame goes to these people

the soldiers who commited the acts. Because Geneva Convention or not, every decent person knows how to treat another human being. Plus I blame our hate-radio, "Mission Accomplished", phony warrior "Bring It On", cowboy George W. Bush culture. This swaggering Rambo fake machismo is at the root of this deplorable behavior by a small group of thugs wearing our country's uniforms. Did you ever see the completely nasty video clip of then governor George W. Bush mocking the woman who was executed...can't remember her name. (Carla something?) George W. pretended he was her and acted like he was strangling her victim. He was laughing and sarcastic and just came across as a thoroughly nasty man. This kind of brutish Limbaugh type posturing is deadly. It's ruining our country. It's the Coulterization of our souls. I bet ole Ann is proud of the torturers..she's been promoting hate for years now. This is the fruit of her labor.

[LeahMira]

48. Please remember...

... Daniel Pearl.

[dpibel]

52. OK. I remember Daniel Pearl.

He was brutally murdered in Pakistan.

This adds exactly what to the discussion?

[arcos]

56. absolutely nothing n/t

[annagull]

49. #3: Lost us the war

The resistance will grow, moderates will no longer exist after this. No Westerner will be safe, reconstruction will cease because of the danger, and I'd say within 6months from now we will have to either level the country or leave.

[Junkdrawer]

51. It's the "level the country" part I'm afraid of...

There are many on the extreme Right that spoil for a "Final Solution" kind of all-out war with what they regard as Islamic Extremism.

[The Lone Liberal]

50. As a signatory to the Geneva Convention

The actions of the military are criminal. If you recall we raised hell over pictures being taken of our prisoners. That is the kind of shit that happened in nam, only it took at least three years before it started. The damn brass are responsible and should be shit-canned and jailed for this.

[RebelOne]

55. Those photos are only going to breed 10,000 more

suicide bombers.

[drfemoe]

57. Ira*i Papers are too Frightened to Print them ...

they were shown on tv in Ira* . but not the papers >>

Iraqis saw the images of abuse via television. Iraq's major newspapers, including those at odds with the U.S.-led occupation, did not publish the photographs, which have been splashed across the pages of Saturday's European publications.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/02/iraq.prisoner.reax

I hope you take a look at some of the corporate contractor threads on DU. Two corps have been named as being involved in the "interrogations". Either whoosh-co has turned over intel to publicly traded companies OR they've just hired torture squads answerable to NO ONE. Some of us are going to be keeping an eye on the stock tickers on Monday to watch them DROP like a ROCK!!

Lockheed Martin has been working for a merger with TITAN (one of the named). Will be interesting to see if they still want to make that purchase.