The Pyramid of Prisoner's Bodies was a Sexual thing!

[spooked]

"then they handcuffed their hands together and their legs with shackles and started to stack them on top of each other by insuring that the bottom guys penis will touch the guy on tops butt.”


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4894001

Sick.

[DeepModem Mom]

1. Also, "A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee"

It's horrid.

[jean]

5. That's rape

[DeepModem Mom]

11. I assume it was -- "rape rooms"

[jean]

17. No kidding - I wonder if that term will be used by anyone on our side

[seabeyond]

32. i heard this on the side

quickly went by adn that is exactly what was said, and a soldier having sex with a female detainee, and i said to self, rape. that is rape. why are you calling it sex. if that isnt a bunch of sh*t. have we totally digressed with theis macho f8cking white male shit that a man now rapes a woman and we reduce it to having sex

[Solly Mack]

2. People thought it was something other than?

Seriously-how could anyone have seen those pictures and not known they were all (intended to be) sexual in nature?

[spooked]

4. I personally didn't think

that the intent was sexual. I thought the soldiers were stacking up the Iraqis in a humiliating way, but not with the intention of making them simulate gay sex!!

[alcuno]

6. You must have missed the picture of the two prisoners forced to

simulate oral sex. There are deeply held beliefs about male nudity in front of other males and homosexuality. Either they were trying to get at their notion of shame or they were stupid beyond belief.

[Tinoire]

12. Alcuno.... Do you really buy this stuff about "simulation"?

There is one report (article?) quoting a young MP who was shocked when he dropped off a prisoner because through an open door he saw a man with a bag over his head forced to masturbate into the mouth of another man kneeling in front of him.

Really sick stuff. I'm not buying this crap about simulation. The sickos who designed this torture didn't have enough morals to stop at "simulation". That's US spin so that a year from now when suicide bombers are self-detonating all over the US, we can sit around wailing "Why do they hate us?".


Just a frustrated quibble. Sorry :)

Hey, btw, have you seen any of the shills who were swearing up & down a wall they were photo-shopped?

[alcuno]

18. I'm not sure. Many Arab men would prefer to be killed before commiting

a homosexual act. I can't see that it matters. It's horrifying either way.

[Tinoire]

36. It matters an awful lot to them like you said...

because it's one of the worst sins they can commit. Even if forced, can you imagine what it must do to the mind that you "got hard" (Lynndie England's words)?

It is, like you said, horrifying either way but it think it's psychologically more painful to them because they were forced to do it & not even given a choice to choose life over death.

I am so ashamed. Angry... like you.

[Khephra]

20. Yeah, I've heard the masturbation stories too

reported rather quickly and along with a list of many other actions, so you don't catch it right away, of course.

Who needs Saddam? We've privatized the Rape Rooms.

I wonder what the reaction would be here in America if it was all female prisoners. I keep on getting this sense that everyone in America thinks that if you're male and an Arab, then you're evil and guilty of whatever the US says.

[drfemoe]

22. actually he said ..

"another one kneeling with its mouth open" ..

Much has been said about "military training" dehumanizing the enemy. But you are living proof that military training doesn't have to destroy human compassion.

[Tinoire]

34. Drfemoe...

Trust me... I was not a typical soldier lol. They were as frustrated with me as the "moderate" dems are here. They had no choice and they knew it which is why they hated people in my job who could see through their transparent lies and would tell them so.

We could not believe how good their brain-washing was with the normal troops.

I'm serious. It's a total, calculated & deliberate mind-fuck.

[drfemoe]

39. {Big Sad Sigh}

I know ... but that verifies that is has just as much (or more) to do with the invidual being *trained* as with the training ... I think. (getting too tired to think) ..

** have you seen this site yet ?
http://mediamatters.org
** something to feel good about ..

[Solly Mack]

24. I don't buy it either. I *believe* those acts "depicted" to be actually

happening.

[spooked]

30. Guess that's why he wanted the gloves

[FlemingsGhost]

7. "Sexual in nature"? Hardly.

They were violent in nature, intended to humilate and rob one of human dignity.

Is rape sexual in nature? It's a sexual act, right?

[Solly Mack]

10. You're right, of course. Rape is about violence/power

Intercourse, etc., is the weapon used


Still, I can't help but think those soldiers were getting their sexual jollies by tormenting the Iraqis....

[Heddi]

23. of course they were getting their jollies

the same way a male rapist can achieve orgasm during a violent rape.

These 'people's' pictures should be burned into our collective brains. These people should NEVER be allowed to retire quietly in the Colorado Mountains. Or achieve a normal life of peace and "finally facing our own inner demons" (as they will no doubt tell Oprah through teary-eyes and camera lights 10 years in the future). Fuck that.

They need to have a sign in their fucking front yard for the rest of their lives that say "I RAPED AND TORTURED INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO WERE ONLY GUILTY OF BEING BORN IN THE WRONG COUNTRY WITH THE WRONG SKIN COLOUR WITH THE WRONG NATURAL RESOURCE. I AM NOT A HUMAN BEING. I AM A MONSTER WORTHY OF NO COMPASSION"

fuck them.

[Solly Mack]

25. I rather they spent the remainder of their lives behind bars

but since they probably won't-I'll vote for your suggestion.

[Heddi]

27. Exactly. Life in prison

naked, of course. With a bag over their heads, of course. Being humilated for the rest of their lives, of course. Well, not really. I'm against torture, and I'm against capital punishment, so I don't wish those things on those people. However, I do believe in Karma and I feel you get what you give some way or another. And what they're going to get is going to be on such a cosmic level that I can't even comprehend it.

Life in prison. With these pictures plastered on their walls. And the faces of the men they humilated. See them as PEOPLE, not bag-headed, faceless items in a picture. NEVER let them forget what they did. NEVER allow the reality to escape them so that it can be minimized into a "I'm really sorry about all this, families. Can I have conjugal visits now?"

The thing about sexual humiliation and torture and abuse is that you NEVER forget it. No amount of therapy, no amount of 'coming to terms', no amount of forgiveness can EVER allow you to overcome that shame and humilation and pain and every other undescribable emotion that comes with it.

These torturers should be forced to remember these actions just as vividly and painfully as the victims do and will. I know that's harsh, but seriously. This is a crime that can NEVER be minimized. I NEVER want to see an interview with them. I want them to live their lives in a little corner of a fucking prison and ROT, and to have a long life of ROTTING and THINKING and REGRETTING.

[Solly Mack]

28. The thing about sexual humiliation ...abuse is that you NEVER forget it"

Yes, I know. All too well.

[alcuno]

3. America the Perverted.

It was done deliberately to get at the Arab attitude about male nudity and homosexuality. Not just American pranks and fratboy games.

[LibDemAlways]

8. The soulless pricks who pollute the airwaves are

attempting to justify this as a "fraternity" prank. That was the official Hannity spin today. (The freepers in my office listen to that shit. Unfortunately, I catch bits and pieces.) Anyhow, that is the level of depravity of the freeptards who believe ANYTHING done on the chimp's watch is fine. If he and Cheney came out nude onto the Super Bowl field at halftime and gave each other blow jobs, the RW would find a reason to love it. Sick, sick, sick.

[NMDemDist2]

14. Hope you get Sirius and play AAR loud and proud in the office n/t

[Khephra]

21. "fraternity" pranks"

Cause deaths and have been prosecuted by the legal system lately. Kids have their whole lives ruined for doing nothing more than drinking games.

These people, at the very least, deserve to be court marshaled.

[Tinoire]

9. Not mocking yout but honestly, you're just catching on to this?

The didn't go to all that trouble just for a photo shoot. It was a deliberate, carefully calculated attempt to humiliate and dehumanize as much as possibe. I had no doubts in my mind. If anything, I think the word "youch" is a euphemism. The people who conducted this knew what they were doing and I highly doubt they would stop at superficial "touching".

A lot of research and care was put into this torture. There's NO way a bunch of highschool drop-outs with no knowledge of Islam & the Koran came up with this gamut of torture on their own.

Sorry to hear you so shocked.

Can you imagine how the Iraqis feel?

This has supported Osama's claim that we are impure, immoral, evil, sexually sick infidels.

And we haven't even learned what was done to the women and the juveniles. They had their own wing in the same cell-block.

[spooked]

13. That's it...it is much more CALCULATED

than it looked at first...when I first saw the photos I thought it was spontaneous "choreography" on the soldiers' part, trying to get as many naked Iraqis into one photo as possiible.

But as you say, this is no doubt the result of "research".

AND guess what everybody?!
WE PAID FOR THIS SICK "RESEARCH" WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS!!!!

[alcuno]

16. Go back to Afghanistan and John Walker Lindh.

What was the first thing they did to him BEFORE they realized he was an American. They put him into a cell with others stark naked. This degradation of Muslims, going after their feelings about male nudity, started in Afghanistan and followed into Iraq.

[Tinoire]

29. Strangely, I remembered that detail last night too...

This systemic torture is nothing new. They've been doing this in Afghanistan, Guantanamo and now Iraq...

Hey.... Have you seen any of the School of America apologists anywhere? It's rather odd that they're notin these threads. Disgusting actually... Hide from the truth of your lies & bury your head deep denough so that you can still fool yourself into believing you're "progressive" & stand for justice.

On edit... There are Amreican, British & Canadian citizens in Abu Ghaibr... Nothing ever changes, does it?

[alcuno]

31. That guy on Charlie Rose totally opened my eyes.

It makes perfect sense that they would use things designed to get at the souls of Arabs. I watched an interview with one of the Iraqis in "the pile" tonight and he said that the shame was so great he intended to leave the country.

I heard recently that some of Al Sadr's guys were turning up dead and all I could think of were the mercenaries, from many countries, that we have let loose in Iraq.

I think that the thing this administration forgot was the technological advances that we have made. Military personnel running around with digital cameras and trading CD's with photos. The Arab news networks. Email and satellite television. They thought they could control the message.

[Tinoire]

37. I know...

they really thought their money could fool & buy our consciences. What a bunch of Jack-asses.

[Iceburg]

15. Its Called DOMA - Defence of Marriage Attrocities

i gather it's some kinda' rwing thingy.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

19. How much does everyone want to bet that it's even worse than we're hearing

I'll bet it's being "soft-pedaled." As bad as the things are that we're hearing about - how much do you want to bet that the worst is not being told to us?

[Heddi]

26. of course not

and when we DO learn about it (15, 20 years from now when most people are "oh...the Iraq War...didn't Oliver Stone make a movie about that) it's going to be alot of hearsay and 'questionable' pictures and foggy memories and it'll be just like all the atrocities we're hearing NOW about Vietnam---NO public outrage. NO questions of accountability. Nothing. Just a passive "oh that's interesting, dear" during the commerical break on 60 Minutes.

And WE will sit there and shake our heads and say "we knew this when it HAPPENED there was more, and nothing was done then, and nothing's going to be done now"

Humans are so.....have such endless talent for both good and evil. Sadly, we're much more creative when it comes to evil things, and quite stagnant on the good :(

[peacetalksforall]

33. This war has become sex, it has become a sex war, they let it

become a sex war.

I will never forgive Kerry, Clinton, Shurmer, Edwards for voting for the war when the rest of us knew what was going on. They approved this right wing act.

I will never forgive the FedSociety/PNAC/CEOs/Brass/Bankers for this war on Iraq.

EVERYTHING THE RIGHT WING TOUCHES TURNS TO SEX

[spooked]

35. We are the Terrorists

and now the whole world knows it.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

38. And check out this excerpt from the same document:

"Military Police, though adept at passive collection of intelligence within a facility, do not participate in Military Intelligence supervised interrogation sessions. Recent intelligence collection in support of Operation Enduring Freedom posited a template whereby military police actively set favorable conditions for subsequent interviews. Such actions generally run counter to the smooth operation of a detention facility, attempting to maintain its population in a compliant and docile state. "

There's a whole world of chilling meaning in the dry beaureaucratic military prose, dontcha think? Painting a picture of systematic oppresion, torture, abuse, humiliation. Like "overseers" on a plantation of old...

[JCMach1]

40. this was cooerced... this was sexual ONLY if you consider RAPE

sexual...


This was clearly an act of torture and violence...!