I am going to defend Donna Brazille because a lot of DUers are in denial

[wndycty]

This backlack against Brazille is ridiculous and insulting. The point she made is very important. I absolutely resent what I believe is the prevailing attitude on the DU that we (Blacks) should support Kerry and Democrats for no other reason than we are Democrats. Obviously we are not going to vote for Bush, but if Kerry does not reach out to Blacks and Hispanics he risks voter apathy in those communities which is just as bad as voting for Bush.

It is interesting that you guys attack Brazille when so many others have said the same GOD DAMNED THING!

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/may04/226882.asp

Kerry's minority gap speaks volumes

Posted: May 3, 2004

Eugene Kane

It's downright depressing. Almost disheartening.

With just six months to go before the most important presidential election in many of our lifetimes, seems like there's a slight problem.

At least, if you plan to vote Democratic. You know, the party of inclusion?

As President Bush makes his rounds in Wisconsin later this week, it's a real bummer to acknowledge that, when it comes to diversity, he's got some pretty impressive names on the team.

Condoleezza Rice, national security adviser. Colin Powell, secretary of state.

Democratic candidate John Kerry, however, has a pretty embarrassing credibility gap to resolve: no minorities at the top of his campaign.

According to a report from The Associated Press, it's become pretty noticeable, as some groups "are concerned that the lack of minority representation at the upper levels of John Kerry's presidential campaign may weaken enthusiasm among black and Hispanic voters."
-snip-

http://www.lenconnect.com/articles/2004/04/27/news/news14.txt
GUEST COMMENTARY: Is Kerry's campaign for president colorblind?

By Colbert I. King -- The Washington Post

WASHINGTON -- Massachusetts senator John Kerry, putative 2004 Democratic standard-bearer and soon-to-be leader of the party that most voting African Americans and other people of color call home, has an innermost circle of advisers that is practically as white as the driven snow. That slam against the Kerry high command appeared last week in ''The Inside Edge'' column of Carlos Watson on CNN.com.
Not wanting to believe that Kerry would assemble a team of insiders with faces that exclusively resembled Europe, I called the Kerry campaign in Washington and got press spokesperson Stephanie Cutter on the phone.
I asked her: Is Carlos Watson's assertion true?

Watson, for the record, had written that, unlike former vice president Al Gore, who had an African American campaign manager, political director and finance director, Kerry has no person of color in his inner circle, including the campaign manager, campaign chairperson, media adviser, policy director, foreign policy adviser, general election manager, convention planner, national finance chairman and head of the vice presidential search team.
Cutter's answer to my question was truly Clintonesque. It all depends, she said, on what you mean by inner circle.
Whoop, there it is.
-snip-

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/14/diversity/
Kerry's inner circle lacks color


This week in "The Inside Edge," take a look at John Kerry's inner circle, learn how Republicans are reaching voters via religious radio, meet a Brazilian Socialist winning praise in the United States and find out the next candidate on Carlos Watson's Top 10 list of possible VP candidates.
Walking the walk
While Democrats have long claimed to be the party of greater inclusiveness, this year President Bush may argue that his administration is more diverse at senior levels than John Kerry's would be.

Seizing on the nation's diversity -- the country is almost one-third non-white -- Bush has appointed African-Americans, Asians, Latinos and women to senior and non-stereotypical roles: Secretary of State, national security adviser, Transportation Secretary, White House Counsel.

Unlike Al Gore whose campaign manager, political director and finance director were African-American, the Kerry campaign, as of yet, has no one of color in the innermost circle, including Kerry's campaign manager, campaign chairperson, media adviser, policy director, foreign policy adviser, general election manager, convention planner, national finance chairman, and head of VP search team.

That's an odd position for a campaign that will probably rely on African-Americans and Hispanics for one in four of their general election votes and the crucial margin of difference in battleground states like Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Ohio.
-snip-


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55531-2004Apr30.html

Among Democrats, Signs of Concern Over Kerry

By Terry M. Neal
washingtonpost.com Staff Writer
Friday, April 30, 2004; 8:04 AM

There's a lot of talk this week in Washington about the diversity˜or lack thereof˜in the presidential campaign of Massachusetts Sen. John F. Kerry.

The campaign is feeling the heat and is aggressively attempting to get a hold of this issue before a damaging perception is created among Democratic voters. For the Kerry campaign, this is crucial: African Americans are the Democratic Party's most loyal constituency, followed closely by Latinos, a group of voters that Republicans are increasingly trying to court.

In the last couple of weeks, several news reports have examined this subject, beginning with CNN‚s Carlos Watson, who wrote on CNN.com recently that "this year President Bush may argue that his administration is more diverse at senior levels than John Kerry's would be." Last weekend, The Washington Post's Colbert I. King wrote in his column that Kerry "has an innermost circle of advisers that is practically as white as the driven snow." The Associated Press also moved a story on the wires Thursday about the perceived lack of color at the top of the Kerry campaign.

The AP story quoted, among others, Rep. Jesse L. Jackson Jr. (D-Ill.) saying: "I am concerned about diversity, but more importantly I am concerned about the experience in that diversity -- senior policy people who know people from one end of the country to the other...The senator should remedy this very quickly."
-snip-

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/29/kerry.minorities.ap/

Kerry camp makeup criticized

Inner circle is mostly white

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A lack of minority representation at the upper levels of John Kerry's presidential campaign threatens to weaken enthusiasm among black and Hispanic voters, two core constituencies, some Democrats and advocacy groups say.

Kerry's inner circle -- the dozen or so advisers who participate in the campaign's most important decisions -- is mostly white.

Senior political adviser Paul Rivera said a core group of seven high-ranking staffers participate in a daily, morning conference call to talk strategy and make key decisions. The group includes campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill; deputy campaign managers Steve Elmendorf and Marcus Jardotte; communications director Stephanie Cutter; general election strategist Jill Alper; and senior advisers Art Collins and Rivera. Jardotte and Collins are black; Rivera is Hispanic.

Campaign officials say media consultants, pollsters and other top aides are often on the call, including chief speechwriter Bob Shrum, and Tad Devine, an architect of Kerry's general election planning.

Shrum and Devine are white, as is John Marttila, a longtime Kerry ally from Massachusetts who spent a lot of time at campaign headquarters during the Iowa and New Hampshire races and is considered part of the brain trust.

-snip-

We have two choices we can continue to slam Brazille for speaking the truth or we can demand that Kerry do something about. The choice is up to you, but please do not just continue to take the Black vote for granted. . .which unfortunately is what is happening.


FULL DISCLOSURE: I am fully behind Kerry and I am going to work my ass of to get him elected but don't for one minute think that I am happy with the lack of outreach he has exhibited in the minority community!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. I agree..Kerry should have acted on this long ago and still needs to

and should spend more time in urban areas such as Detroit. His programs are good..but he needs to reach out more.

[w13rd0]

2. Seems to me...

...that the "strategy" isn't so much to win, as it is to let Bush lose. I don't have much confidence in that strategy, especially given events of the past 3 years.

[workforpower]

24. 'Seems to me "

That John Kerry kicked all the other losers out. The Democrats have decided,big. Your whing is tiresome and really old.

This is the carping that always makes us lose. Republicans know how to win,Democrats play with themselves.

[sangh0]

3. I won't attack anyone over this

but I will point out that this happens every four years, and it's nothing more than an attempt by some to secure positions within the Kerry administration. Kerry has appointed minority members to high positions in his campaign and within the DNC.

No one I know is clamoring for Kerry to give a job to Jesse Jackson Jr. They're too worried about their own jobs

[SEAburb]

4. She's being paid to support the Dem party, is the point you're missing

<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. You're right.

It's not this 'one thing' that prompts the criticism of Brazile but the ongoing lameness she displays, and the fact that she is not a good spokesperson for our side.

This is nothing but the latest example.

[BiggJawn]

10. I *STILL* wanna know....

Does she have late-night phone talks with Karl Rove almost daily to compare notes like she did during the '00 campaign?

Until you reminded me, I had forgotten what skin colour she has.

And it still doesn't matter.

[calimary]

25. Exactly. That is the ONLY criticism I have against Brazile.

She is a HORRIBLE spokeswoman for our side. She's as forceful a defender of the liberal/progressive/Democrat/even moderate point of view as is Alan Colmes. She's rather pathetic. Such a milquetoast. One of those who just makes me crazy, who's liable to open every rebuttal with "well, my opponent makes a very good point, and..."

Now AL SHARPTON... We NEED a firebrand like HIM! Lord, pay him WHATEVER he wants. Just GET HIM to man our talking points. We need people like HIM out there fighting for us. A man of GLORIOUS color - and I'm talking his speech patterns, NOT just his skin tone. Him and Howard Dean. We need folks like them. I wish we had some females, too. Donna Brazile is far too "kinder and gentler" for my taste. You don't take a powder puff (especially one you just shook all the powder OFF) to a gun fight. OR a knife fight.

[Snellius]

6. Right on, wndycty!

In his determination to straddle the middle of the road, Kerry is seriously in danger of being run over by Nader or by apathy from his base on the left.

[KamaAina]

7. Stephanie Tubbs-Jones is the new DNC co-chair

For some reason that completely escapes me </sarcasm>, this high-level appointment of an African American congressional rep from Cleveland has pretty much flown under the radar of the mainstream media (lack of diversity? Pot kettle black!).

http://www.newsnet5.com/politics/3011580/detail.html

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry announced Thursday that Ohio Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs-Jones will serve as a co-chair in the Democratic National Committee to help his campaign.

Tubbs-Jones and Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin will work with DNC Chairman Terry McAuliffe who will continue to manage the day-to-day operations of the Democratic National Committee.

Outside Cleveland, all coverage of this event focused on Sen. Durbin rather than Rep. Tubbs-Jones. But of course that's not racist! He's a Senator! She's just a Congresswoman! </sarcasm> Note that Kerry, not Terry Mac, made the announcement.

[Tatiana]

8. Preach it!

I saw the minorities on Clark's team. I want to see the same on Kerry's team. Now I don't think Donna is the brightest person on this planet, but I absolutely agree she has a point here.

[ewagner]

9. I am a little miffed about this

(okay, "miffed" is a stupid phrase)

Here's what I think is happening:

If there is a legit argument that the Kerry campaign hasn't paid enough attention to minorities, then these concerns should have been taken up either directly with Kerry or his top people privately and assurances should have been forthcoming and acted upon expeditiously.

My fear is that the reason we're seeing public airing of this family feud is because no assurances were given after private meetings. Hence, the minority community may have felt it had no choice but to make their concerns public and part of the debate.

Why, then, am I "miffed"? Because the debate should have never been made public. It should have been settled quietly within the party. The whole debate just gives the dittoheads another reason to bash the party. A large part of politics is reaching agreements and forming coalitions outside of the media spotlight. This hasn't been done. It's clumsy. It's amateurish. I hate it.

[BurtWorm]

12. I disagree. Democrats should be about transparency.

Republicans do things in private and secret, but we air our differences. It's a blessing and a curse, but I wouldn't trade it for the Republican way of doing business.

[sangh0]

14. So do you mind that the Repukes stole memos

from the Dems computers?

[BurtWorm]

16. Were the memos about how inclusive the Dems should be?

Then no. Were they about strategizing on the Republican controlled Judiciary Committee? Then yes.

[sangh0]

18. Why would you mind if the Dems are about transparancy?

Your getting incoherent. Before, the Dems should be open because the Repukes do everything in secret, and it had NBOTHING to do with diversity. GO ahead, re-read your own post to confirm this.

Now, the Dems should only be transparent when it comes to diversity.

[BurtWorm]

20. Want to get tangled in a pointless debate or do you want an answer

of substance?

My substantial answer: Race is a public issue. There should be nothing for Democrats to hide about it. Hiding the discussion would be the height of hypocrisy and would provide more grist for the mill if it were uncovered--as it would be, considering that the main complaint among those who differ with Kerry is that he is taking their support for granted. This has been aired for a while. If Kerry isn't taking action on it now that it's in public, would he be more motivated to act on it if it were held behind closed doors? He should just friggin' get on it, and then it won't be an issue to be raised in public.

[sangh0]

23. substance abuse

Deciding who you're going to give a job to is not a public matter, even if the public is affected by the decision, just as the public is affected by decision to smoke (or not) but will not have input to my decision.

NO ONE, ever discusses these things in public. Doing that, and then adding in the more combustible race angle, is an extremely foolish idea.

And it's very shallow to think that the "race" issue boils down to how many tokens a candidate has appointed.

And the accuracy of my points is confirmed by how even you aren't asking about the race of Kerry's VP, or asking that the deliberations be held in public.

[BurtWorm]

26. It's about more than hiring. It's about a focus that is lacking.

What has Kerry done for African-American people lately. That's what it's about.

[sangh0]

47. Changing your story AGAIN?

First, it was because the Repukes keep everything secret.

Them it was because it was about diversity, and that should be open

Now, it's about "focus"

Since you don't stick to your own arguments, I can only assume that even you don't believe them. Good day

[BurtWorm]

50. I believe absolutely in my arguments.

I'm not interested in winning debating points about how you and I debate, as you consistently seem to be. But my points are plain and consistent. If you can't follow them, it's your problem, not mine.

[sangh0]

13. Don't worry

It happens every four years, and all it means is that some people want to secure a job in the upcoming Kerry administration.

[chimpymustgo]

31. If you think this is just about JOBS - that is quite racist.

I really like John Kerry - em, President Kerry - and I know he wants to be an inclusive leader. But it really is troublesome that he could be in a room full of advisors that are ALL WHITE - and not wonder - what's wrong with this picture? Did he, nor his inner circle NOT NOTICE that they were not hearing minority voices?

You're right - it happens every four years. The one goddam demographic that is unswervingly loyal to the party finds itself shut out of the inner sanctum. It's not about JOBS - it's about inclusion, about respect, about ONE AMERICA.

Dammit.

[sangh0]

48. Do you think you know what you're talking about?

a room full of advisors that are ALL WHITE

Several of Kerry's top advisors are member of minorities.

Try again and maybe this time, you can be less insulting of a minority member. Insulting minorities might get you a reputation for being a racist, and the way you toss that insult around, I suspect you wouldn't like it.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

11. during the 02 election cycle Donna became very friendly with Rove

they are dinner partners....nuff said

[papau]

19. And took a Senate seat in LA away from him ... so being friendly means

what evil is occuring?

[CWebster]

15. It's not just Blacks, wndycty

It seems to me that the only demographic Kerry is dancing for is Bush's.

[papau]

17. It is 6 mon to the election - and the ideas and plans - not color of skin

should determine the minority vote.

To suggest Kerry is not reaching out as well as Bush because, unlike Bush, he does not have a wealthy black woman calling him "husband" at the most inappropriate times is silly.

Heck - he is married to an African - or is the rule you can not be an African if your skin color does not give a piano's "ebony black" a run for the money?

My read is like many here - that Donna wants some visibility and a few contracts from Kerry. And I think that is a win-win idea, because she can help him.

And like most here I am pissed at Donna for acting like a black Alan Colmes so as to get noticed.

But just as there is little reason - at this point - to slam her, there is also little reason to take her contract negotiation comments as Gospel.

It is about time to realize that doing something for the people includes doing something for blacks and the rest of the folks in the minority community. And screwing the non-rich also means screwing the blacks and the rest of the folks in the minority community.

Granted that the all rich, all white except for 4 tokens, Bush gang may make a better photo at this point. I suspect the world of color will be in the Kerry Campaign shortly - perhaps not with a Al Gore like black campaign manager, political director and finance director, but differently with minority folks on the plane and on the speed dialer.

And while I approve of about 90% of the ideas "Black politicians" propose, I can't think, off hand, of anything in those ideas that makes those ideas not people ideas - rather than ideas that appeal to the minority voters.

[chimpymustgo]

42. WRONG. Donna has a fat contract with CNN and a book coming out.

She has NO desire to take the grief, the long hours, the travel, the bullshit that comes from working a campaign.

She is just addressing an issue that Kerry needs to address. Even though she supports him wholeheartedly, she wouldn't take a job from him if he offered one.

[papau]

45. I didn't know her plans as to Kerry's campaign -but is she going CNN

plus book only in the future?

I thought she was still in the market for State gigs.

Oh well - shows you how much I don't know!

While I understated her desire for him to address these issues, I at least got it correct that "she supports him wholeheartedly"!!!!

Now I have to think about how wise it is, in my humble opinion, for Donna to allow herself to use phrasing that might hurt Kerry's election - or at least be used to rattle the cages of liberals watching Fox or CNN or MSNBC!

And someone posted about the minority faces ALREADY on board and on speed dial - the core group of seven high-ranking staffers who participate in a daily, morning conference call to talk strategy and make key decisions includes campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill; deputy campaign managers Steve Elmendorf and Marcus Jardotte; communications director Stephanie Cutter; general election strategist Jill Alper; and senior advisers Art Collins and Rivera. Jardotte and Collins are black; Rivera is Hispanic. - and on speed dial we have Harold Ford, Jr. and Henry Cisneros, with Luis Navarro, who was the national political director until he quit -

so I guess I do not understand what policy she wants Kerry to be more forceful about. I just hope her message is getting to Kerry!

[Az]

21. This is all part of the ABB thinking

It doesn't matter if the issues that matter to you are being left in the dust. Vote ABB. Don't think. Don't express your opinions. Don't raise issues that may give the right leverage. Stay quiet. Stay down.

And then they wonder why the system is sliding into the swamp of the right.

[sandnsea]

22. Totally confused

"Senior political adviser Paul Rivera said a core group of seven high-ranking staffers participate in a daily, morning conference call to talk strategy and make key decisions. The group includes campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill; deputy campaign managers Steve Elmendorf and Marcus Jardotte; communications director Stephanie Cutter; general election strategist Jill Alper; and senior advisers Art Collins and Rivera. Jardotte and Collins are black; Rivera is Hispanic."

Not to mention Harold Ford, Jr. and Henry Cisneros, off the top of my head. And Luis Navarro, who was the national political director until he quit in a huff over the hiring of Steve Elmendorf.

[upperleftedge]

27. Donna

Donna is a tough sister, but she's not on anyone's plantation. Listen up.
Can we truly win without mobilizing and energizing all Democrats! Read the
column.

[newyawker99]

29. Hi upperleftedge!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

28. Sharpton said there's no problem w/ Kerry and that this

is just people applying for jobs through the media.

[dsc]

30. I just love this

Some of the very same people who are defending Kerry on this now, attacked Dean like mad on the lack of African Americans in his tiny cabinet. The hypocrisy is literally unbelievable.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. But wasn't it zero with Dean?

There's some difference here.

[papau]

34. Dean had 4 advisors - and a minority person turned him down when

offerred one of the slots.

It is hard to fight the fact of a near all white population.

:-)

[dsc]

35. Not really

it was only 0 with Dean if you did what is being done here, count a tiny minority of positions. Dean's chief of staff, which wasn't a cabinet postion, was a black woman. But like Tubbs Jones now, she didn't count then.

[papau]

38. LOL - I forgot that!

:-)

Thanks for the reminder!

:-)

[papau]

33. It was silly stupid with Dean - and is silly stupid with Kerry

The only Black politician in Vermont holding major office in the years I was there was a State Rep from Montpelier.

The number of adult blacks in the state - and not Indian from India - were easily counted on 2 hands.

Folks had to transfer all the swears, etc from blacks to the "French"

Indeed in VT/NH/Maine the French serve the dump on role - a friend teaches minority help and English as a second language classes in VT - to French kids - with the "minority money"!

But VT was and is a liberal state - I liked it a lot!

[dsc]

37. Yes it was

but some people here are being utterly inconsistent hypocrites. I honestly don't give a damn how many gays are advising Kerry I care what his policies are in regards to gays. Similarly if I were black I wouldn't give a damn how many blacks he had around him, I would care what he was doing for me.

[sendero]

40. I didn't attack then...

.. or now. Sharpton's attack on Dean solidified my nascent suspicions that he is a hack.

As someone further down said "I'm not counting the number of (whatever) in your administration, I'm interested in what you will do for (whatever) policy wise."

George Bush has installed some black people in his cabinet, but he doesn't do jack squat to further the interests of the average black in the USA.

Sharpton can take his litmus test and shove it up his whatever, and so can Brazile.

[dsc]

41. It isn't my contention that every defender of Kerry did this

but there are two on this thread who did. I am not allowed under the rules to name them sadly but they surely did.

[sendero]

43. My reply...

... was to your post but I wasn't complaining at you. Sorry if it seemed that way - my note was meant for anyone thinking that some sort of cabinet quota system means jack.

[dsc]

44. No problem

I just wanted to be clear that I don't intend to paint with a broad brush.

[sangh0]

49. But you do paint with a broad brush

Dean has a record of not having minority members is positions of authority THROUGHOUT his political career. Kerry has a history of having minority members on his staff in high positions thoughout his political career. He also has a record of service on civil rights issues that Dean does not.

Also, Kerry's campaign DOES have minority members in high positions.

[dsc]

51. that is just flat out false

He has appointed several openly gay people, and last I checked we are a minority. In addition, he had a couple of African American highly placed employees including his chief of staff. You chose to ignore that when it was Dean. Now that it is Kerry, all of the sudden it is unfair. Give me a flipping break. You are being totally hypocritical. You don't give a damn about minorities now but you sure did then.

[sangh0]

60. You're spinning

In general, when people speak of "minorities", they are not speaking of GLBT's. Yes, GLBT's are a minority, but so are White SBC's and no one is talking about them when they say "minorities"

And as far as their political careers go, I'd put Kerry up against Dean any time.

Now that it is Kerry, all of the sudden it is unfair.

I did not say it was unfair. Never happened.

I say it's untrue, but it's not unfair to raise the issue.

[dsc]

75. I don't know what an SBC is

but let me know if they can be fired from their jobs, like we can in 40 states, are banned from marrying, like we are in all 50 (49 in a few days), are banned from adopting, like we are in 3 states, are banned from being in the military, and a whole host of other things. If they are, or you can compile a similar list for them, then, and only then, will I entertain the notion that they are a minority.

[dsc]

78. kick

I would like that list.

[sangh0]

80. "SBC" is the Southern Baptist Convention (ie Fundies)

And again, there is a difference between GLBT rights and minority rights and when people speak of "minorities" it is understood to mean "ethnic and racial minorities" and not GLBT's.

wrt GLBT's Kerry has a stellar record which is why he has been endorsed by groups representing GLBT's.

they are, or you can compile a similar list for them, then, and only then, will I entertain the notion that they are a minority.

You seem to think that "minority" means "anyone who has been discriminated against". If you were right, the majority of South Africans, who are black, would be considered a "minority" in South Africa. They are not.

[dsc]

83. in this country people who can be discrimiated againt are minorities

and I see you have no such list. Frankly I am sick and tired of being close to the worst treated (in a legal sense) minority and being told I am not one.

[dsc]

90. on other thing

SBC's not only aren't discriminated against, it is illegal to discriminate against them.

[Used and Abused]

36. I agree, I actually mentioned the same thing recently

to a friend. Theres no getting around it--Bush has *a lot* of blacks in *top level* *cabinet* positions. The Dems must do better!

[robbedvoter]

39. Dona, who thinks blacks in Florida need remedial teaching? here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/21/politics/21BRAZ.html?ei=5062&en=3e195a743382c294&ex=104649 4800&partner=GOOGLE&pagewanted=print&position=top
February 21, 2003
Frustrated Democrat Makes Friends in G.O.P.
By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE
ASHINGTON -- Two years ago, Donna Brazile, then Al Gore's
campaign manager, was
engaged in daily combat with Karl Rove, then George W. Bush's
top campaign strategist.
Today, they chirpily exchange e-mail, chat on the phone and write
letters, indulging in their shared
zeal for the inner workings of politics.
"I like her a lot," said Mr. Rove, now ensconced in the West Wing as
President Bush's chief political
adviser.
Ms. Brazile, a committed Democrat who was the first black woman to
manage a presidential
campaign, has built similar relationships with other Republicans, like
Grover Norquist, an
influential conservative strategist. And her coziness with them comes as
she is deeply
frustrated with her own party for what she calls years of taking
African-Americans for granted
and for failing to organize for elections in a coherent way.
and my favorite part:
The Republicans are in charge," she said. "I don't want
African-Americans to wait four years or
eight years for the Democrats to get back in the game before we make
progress."
from the person who Rove likes because she isn't stuck in the 2000 election"
Some advocate! She practically promissed Rove to deliver him the black vote - she is using all the right memes (and all the articles as well).
As Charlie Rangel said when he endorsed Clark: "the best think he can do for the black people is to get rid of W"
For any black person to advocate W over ANY dem - is to be either nuts or bought.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

53. Correct. Making an issue where there is none.

unless you are a GOP aider and abettor.

[noiretextatique]

56. "For any black person to advocate W over ANY dem..."

is this true for any white person too?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

63. No. There are no dumb blacks.

But no shortage of dumb white folks. (Just to put a positive spin on that... :) )

[noiretextatique]

66. LOL...you know, you may have a point

:7 when you are a target of a certain party, common sense dictates that you vote for the other guy. unfortunately, the republicans have convinced too many white voters they aren't targets too.

[robbedvoter]

85. I guess for a white person other motivations can apply

as Donna's friend Karl surely can explain

[SEAburb]

46. Novak uses her comments on Crossfire

Way to go Donna.

[Catherine Vincent]

52. I must have missed something. Did Kerry put Brazile on the payroll?

I hope not. She is not the right spokesman to represent AA's in Kerry's campaign. He needs to choose someone else. She is not strong or partisan enough for me.

[robbedvoter]

86. No, Karl Rove did. She just pretends to speak for Dems - like Zell

Time to recognize the shills and the GOP memes

[msmcghee]

54. This is for keeps, folks.

This is possibly the most important election in US history. The future of America and possibly the world will be determined by the outcome.

Anyone who criticizes Kerry now better have a damned good reason and better be right. The reason better be a lot more important than the future of this nation.

Brazille doesn't have a good reason and she is not right. She is now the enemy and should be treated as such.

For some folks here it's not important that if the Dem party had gotten the votes of many white race-baiting southern males, we would have won several states in the south. One state was all we needed in 2000. The reason we don't have their support is because we vocally support affirmative action and dozens of other policies that create opportunities for minorities. Virtually all minority prosperity, education and health statistics improved significantly under Clinton. They have now started to decline again.

If that's not good enough for you Donna, then vote for *Bush and take your unprincipled opportunistic followers with you. Please.

[jonnyblitz]

55. good thread wndcty

the backlash you see goes towards anybody that dare stray from the Kerry lovefest with a valid concern such as yours. Taking for granted your vote because "who else will you vote for" is rather troublesome. Very interesting and eye opening post.

[noiretextatique]

57. i have to agree eom

[msmcghee]

58. You, like many here haven't the vaguest idea . .

. . how our political process works.

If we had a parliamentary system then all ideologies would be represented according their popularity. In our system, you win it all, or you win nothing.

For Kerry the game is to take as many votes as possible by positioning himself just to the left of Bush, which, thanks to the ideologues on the right, leaves a lot of room. But that may seem like he is deserting those much further to the left than that. That means us here at DU.

I suspect many posters here at DU are repukes trying to take advantage of that perception and reinforce it. It would be like you going to FR and accusing *Bush of pandering to women voters by not putting a rabid pro-lifer in charge of health care.

But to simply stand on well-stated liberal principles means throwing away millions of votes between you and his opponent. Now is not the time to hold our candidate's feet to the fire on ideology.

Unfortunately, many here at DU do not understand this and would rather see him lose - than not hear him campaigning for their pet liberal cause 150% - and are ready to trash him for that. I'm not.

Bush used that strategy in 2000. Led by Rove, he got millions of votes more than he should have by calling himself a compassionate conservative. It didn't fool anybody at DU but lots of people who voted for Clinton switched to *Bush because of that strategy. I didn't hear the neo-cons trashing *Bush for that. They knew he wasn't a compassionate conservative - they knew he was taking millions of votes from our side - snickered over their martinis every time *Bush said "I'm a compassionate conservative".

[wndycty]

59. But this is not an ant-Kerry thread. . .

. . .I am fully behind him and ready to work my ass off for him, most of us will not vote for Bush, but if Kerry does not make the right outreach efforts minorities will just stay home which is just as bad as voting for Bush.

[msmcghee]

61. No, if black leaders like Donna Brazille . .

. . don't make the right outreach efforts, or worse, try to blackmail Kerry during the campaign, then black voters may decide to stay home.

Ask what Kerry can do for you once he's elected. Now is the time to ask what you (and all of us) can do for Kerry. He's got way more than enough problems to deal with.

My cause celebre is drug laws. But the last thing I'd do right now is raise a stink about Kerry not being for the legalization of marijuana. If I did that I might convince some others, who don't really understand how the system works, to not support him or not send him money for his campaign. That would be selfish and stupid of me.

[sangh0]

62. You are NOT "fully behind him"

and you're not fooling me by saying that.

if Kerry does not make the right outreach efforts minorities will just stay home which is just as bad as voting for Bush.

Will *YOU*, a minority member who claims to be "fully behind him", stay home?

If "Yes, I will stay home", then I'd argue that you're not fully behind him

If "No, I will not stay home", then why assume that others would?

[noiretextatique]

67. what the hell are you talking about?

what do you want from the poster...a blood oath? she is absolutely right...if there is little effort, no one should be surprised if there isn't the expected result.

the problem here is: democrats need the black vote, but can't appeal too much to blacks in order to appeal to some white voters. let's not pretend that isn't the case. and let's also not pretend that black voters are not one of the most loyal of democratic constiuencies. no surprise there, considering the racism is a republican party family value.

i am encouraged by kerry's comments about florida...perhaps that will encourage other black voters, considering how little the party did to address what happened there in 2000.

finally...i bet a lot of voters don't have any idea who brazile is, black and white.

[sangh0]

79. No, no blood oath

She can vow to not vote for Kerry at all if she doesn't feel she should. However, someone who is unsure of whether a candidate has earned their vote cannot be accurately described as being "fully behind" the candidate.

The "loyalty oath" arguments that get posted in response to any criticism of a poster who is criticizing Kerry is getting very old, in addition to being intellectually dishonest. It assumes that only those who criticize Kerry are acting in a moral manner, while those who disagree with them are insisting on loyalty.

As far as Kerry doing more to reach out to minorities, I think that while Kerry has done a great deal of that throughout his career, there could always be more. I do not disagree with the goal, though I do disagree with some of the descriptions that have been posted wrt Kerry's record on this issue. That's not a call for censorship or loyalty; It's just my opinion and I do believe I'm allowed to post my opinions.

[noiretextatique]

84. she said she will work for and vote for kerry

she doesn't have to like him or love him...she just has to vote for him.
and you have absolutely no "right" to question whether she is sincere or not...since she's stated several times she would both work and vote for him. your opinion as to whether she is loyal enough to kerry, to suit your tastes, is irrelevant.

[wndycty]

74. That is the most laughable thing I ever heard. . .

. . .I have continued to send regular e-mails to my list of over 3,000 voters telling them to supporting Kerry. I am launching a new group patriotsforprogress.org with the aim of supporting Kerry, every Tuesday and Thursday evening I spend with local Kerry supporters, etc. So you can kiss my ass if you believe I am not fully behind him. I will continue to criticize him for his lack of minority insiders but I am going to do whatever I can to get him elected.

[SEAburb]

64. couldn't Donna raise these issues to Kerry in a direct manner

I'm sure she has more direct access to Kerry. I don't believe she had to go public with these issues to get Kerry's attention.

[msmcghee]

65. Blackmail only works . .

. . when there's an implied threat.

[noiretextatique]

68. there is no implied threat

it's not as if 90+% of black voters voted republican in 2000.

[chimpymustgo]

69. A black person asks for respect, inclusion and justice and it's blackmail.

This is a fabulous post wyndycty, and much of the reaction exposes the ugly underbelly of the Democratic party.

Blacks give the party NINETY PERCENT OF THEIR VOTES - please name another demographic/ethnic/racial/whatever group that has that level of year in and year out loyalty?

And every fricking election, blacks are left asking, usually in a very nice way, "Hey, you got some ideas about how to make things a little better for us? Do you have a few of us sharing thoughts and ideas with the Big Guy? Does the Big Guy have some serious close relationships with some of us - does he feel that we are important to him?"

John Kerry forged bonds across racial lines when he fought in Vietnam, and he maintained many of them. But does he have close friends, advisors who are black and Latino? I am aware that he has made some recent hires to put some color in the room - but I hope he will take to heart the NUMEROUS calls from blacks to think about how open he is to minority points of view.

I swear to God, we go through this damn near every election. Gore did have Donna Brazile as his campaign manager, and Clinton just exuded that aura of inclusiveness. But many blacks are still left with a feeling of "otherness" - even in this party that they are so DEVOTED to. You hear it all the time: "They just want us to show up on election day."

The strong, and dismissive reaction of so many DU'ers really stings. We just had this argument when Air America replaced the programming on WLIB in NYC. A few blacks dared to complain that their programming was displaced by this liberal radio station (good thing) that had a total of ONE black voice (a black rapper) in all it's programming (not good thing). And the overwhelming response from (white) DU: JUST GET OVER IT. Be GRATEFUL that you have LIBERAL programming. Now shut up and go to the back of the bus.

The Black Dems pointing out what they see as a lack of diversity in Kerry's inner circle are promptly called job-seekers and blackmailers. Trust. Carlos Watson has a sweet deal with CNN. Colbert I. King has a long-time position on the Washington Post Editorial Board, and a TV gig on a local station in DC. Donna Brazile has a nice contract with CNN, and has a book coming out soon.

Damn, the slander, the condescension, the dismissal is just sad.

[msmcghee]

71. I don't know why I'm arguing about this

But it did hit a raw nerve. - so I'll try to continue a little longer.

This is a fabulous post wyndycty, and much of the reaction exposes the ugly underbelly of the Democratic party.

Now that's condescending.

Blacks give the party NINETY PERCENT OF THEIR VOTES - please name another demographic/ethnic/racial/whatever group that has that level of year in and year out loyalty?

Votes are given for one's benefit. If blacks (or any other voting block) think they would benefit from more repukes in office they should "give" the repukes their votes. It's not a matter of loyalty. It is self interest.

And every fricking election, blacks are left asking, usually in a very nice way, "Hey, you got some ideas about how to make things a little better for us? Do you have a few of us sharing thoughts and ideas with the Big Guy? Does the Big Guy have some serious close relationships with some of us - does he feel that we are important to him?"

Only important enough to face loosing the whole south to repukes in order to continue supporting minority causes in the face of powerful repuke opposition and spending a great amount of political capital in the process - as was spent by leading dems over the U of Michigan affirmative action cause.

. . but I hope he will take to heart the NUMEROUS calls from blacks to think about how open he is to minority points of view.

Exactly which minority points of view has he closed his mind to?

This is not being dismissive. It is being very scared that we are a long way from seeing any light at the end of this tunnel. We need to unite behind Kerry - not attack him for being some kind of a racist.

But we mostly need to understand that displacing the current administration is more important than Donna Brazille's ego. Her attacks are at least as important in the whole scheme of things as Nader's candidacy. Both of them break my heart.

And yes, it happens every election. A great deal of time, money and energy is wasted by dem interest groups relentlessly attacking each other and Kerry knowing that they will all suffer terrible damage is *Bush if re-elected. Please spare me from the true believers.

[robbedvoter]

87. Only Calvin Butts and GOP blacks complained about Air America

Anyone without a chip on their shoulder would see that they are richly represented on the air at AAR. Same in the party, Kerry's campaign.
Donna is in it for Donna 9not unlike Snafulopagus, Carville or Begala).
She is a media whorse - her color doesn't salvage her credibility.

[Ardee]

70. criticism earned and deserved

Donna Brazile may be most responsible for the defeat of Al Gore (despite the continuing deflection of anger to Nader).She has admitted that she ran the Gore campaign very poorly.

I cannot decide if you are angry because Brazille is black or because she is undeserving of all the criticisms levelled at her. My opinion is that, yes she is black and yes she is deserving of all that criticism.

[Sophree]

72. The criticism is valid.

The source of the criticism is HIGHLY suspect. I do not trust Donna Brazile and I strongly believe her to be on the Repup. machine payroll.

[chimpymustgo]

73. I give up.

nt

[Sophree]

81. Don't do that, chimpy!

Oh no! I don't want that burden on my shoulders. My opinion of Donna Brazile is not based on this one event. I have watched her consistently undermine Democrats and her guilty body language betrays her.

Like I said, the criticism is valid. If Kerry or we Democrats are not including African-Americans- shame on us! That needs to change. And we are not Republicans- we can (we MUST) tolerate criticism from within. Sorry, chimpy, DB is not "from within" anymore.

[chimpymustgo]

82. Criticizing Brazile for her campaign stewardship is quite apart from

criticizing her - and others - who dared to suggest that Kerry might not have a "rainbow coalition" of advisors.

What was galling and dispiriting is the reaction of too many DU'er who think it doesn't matter - and minorities really have no right to raise the issue (even though they are the MOST loyal demographic in the Democratic Party.

They went on to add insult to injury by accusing anyone who raised the question of being job-seekers, blackmailers, and anti-Kerry - NONE of which are true in the specific examples we were discussing.

But race often does that to people.

[robbedvoter]

88. I have yet to back Kerry. However Btazile is a Rove shill.

I will not buy anything from her. When any member of Florida 14, someone like Maxine Waters, Barbara Lee will speak, I'll listen.
Everything Brazile says I take as enemy advice. After all she said: "How long should blacks wait for dems to return to power?"

[Sophree]

92. Exactly

She's bought and paid for and is willing go wherever the $ and the power is.

[Sophree]

91. I understand, chimpy.

I certainly does matter. People are just freaked out about the possibility of another 4 years of *.

:hi:

[Ardee]

89. Sorry, too deep for me.

To suspect Brazile of being a deep cover GOP plant is to also believe that there are far too many stupid democrats, Al Gore included....Well, wait a minute now......:think:

Nope sorry, I also do not understand your comment re the suspect source of the criticism, it seems to be coming from many places....

[Sophree]

93. I was referring to her

Donna Brazile, this particular source of criticism.

I don't think she's "deep cover." I just think she's opportunistic and not to be trusted.

[wndycty]

76. Kick

:kick:

[wndycty]

77. Kick

:kick: