Bishop: No Communion for Pro-Choice Voters

[hyphenate]

Bishop: No Communion for Pro-Choice Voters

DENVER - Catholics who vote for politicians in favor of abortion rights, stem-cell research, euthanasia or gay marriage may not receive Communion until they recant and repent in the confessional, the Roman Catholic Bishop of Colorado Springs said.



Sheridan made his remarks in a May 1 pastoral letter published in the diocese's newspaper. He said he singled out abortion, stem-cell research, euthanasia and gay marriage for criticism because they are "intrinsically evil."



Last month, Cardinal Francis Arinze said a Catholic politician who supports abortion rights "is not fit" to receive the Eucharist. The debate was spurred by Catholic presidential candidate John Kerry's support of abortion rights.

Sheridan said some Catholics have challenged him to extend his list of positions out of step with church teaching to include the death penalty or the war with Iraq. But Sheridan said he doesn't believe those matters carry the same weight.

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http://kevxml2a.verizon.net/_1_2ZYNTO10LYK7ZB__vzn.isp/apnws/story.htm?kcfg=apart&sin=D82IC7983&qcat=usnews&ran=5533&passqi=&feed=ap&top=1

[Gman]

1. As a Catholic, Your Excellency...

you can kiss my ass.

[MUAD_DIB]

8. The Church is full of hipocrites that turn a blind eye to their

sexual abuses for decades yet wish to take the moral/political high ground.

As a Catholic I think that the Church should fix its own problems first then address the bigger social problems facing the world. It should stay out of politics altogether.

Give to Ceasar what is Ceasars...

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Maybe when pedophile priests stop giving communion

should they be so worried about who is receiving it?

[supernova]

3. What right does the church have

to insist upon knowing how you voted?!?

If I were Catholic, I'd be telling my priest where he could shove it on this issue.

[bleedingheart]

4. Then pro-choice and pro-birth control catholics should stop donating $$

...by the way I am a pro-choice catholic, it is well known to my community too... and I haven't noticed them turning my money away.

[Blue Gardener]

5. What are they going to do?

Start looking over parishioners shoulders when they vote?

[emad]

6. Communion is such a confidence trick anyway....

don't know why they don't just give out cookies, or bloody marys or both....

[CBHagman]

33. You've just crossed a line.

It really violates the standards of this forum to start mocking the sacrament of a church, any church. By all means criticize the behavior of individual leaders and/or members of a faith, but do not go into the region of sneering at the individual practice of a faith. You are very, very much out of line.

[truthspeaker]

37. aw, did your feelings get hurt?

I thought the statement you're objecting to was a little harsh but what is the big deal? It's just a wafer and a sip of wine. If you choose to give them added significance that's your business, but you can't expect everyone else to abide by it.

[CBHagman]

42. Feelings have nothing to do with it.

It's one thing to criticize the behavior of church leaders or individual members of a particular faith. It's quite another to make a very direct attack on prayers, sacraments, religious feasts, etc. The post in question attacked something that is central to Catholicism, the sacrament of the Eucharist, and wasn't appropriate to Democratic Underground.

[truthspeaker]

44. making a joke is not "attacking"

[monobrau]

53. sorry, pal

If you want to live in the clouds and pretend a stale cracker is the body of christ, don't expect rational adults to go along with your fantasy.
Your sick death cult has slaughtered innocents and destroyed cultures
through the centuries, and is actively trying to undermine my country, my freedom, my laws.
The leaders of your church have raped children and engaged in criminal conspiracies to obstruct bringing those responsible to justice.
Cling to your grimy little gutter religion if you wish, but there is no place for it in the 21st century.

[Renew Deal]

7. He should stop giving communion to the child molesters

that they cover up.

[dedhed]

9. Remember when people worried that a politician was TOO Catholic?

And you knew where you were then
Girls were girls, and men were men
Mr., we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again

... THOSE WERE THE DAYS!

:bounce:

[bleedingheart]

12. bingo!!!

[slackmaster]

23. I'm not quite old enough to remember

I remember the assassination of President Kennedy but not the heated discussions of his religion in the election of 1960.

Richard Nixon being a Quaker was made an issue in the election of 1968. I was pleased how few people even mentioned Senator Lieberman's Judaism in the election of 2000.

[Cassandra]

10. Those matters don't carry the same weight??!??

The death penalty and war (how could the Catholic Church give up war?)? How about pedophilia? Conservative Catholic clerics are really going to rue the day they started demonizing political positions.

[Mandate My Ass]

29. Church hierarchy are now "cafeteria catholics"

Remember when the Vatican decried cafeteria Catholics in the USA? They said you cannot pick and choose and adhere to only those church tenets you personally support if you wanted to be considered a true Catholic.

Let's look at the issues that are considered intrinsically evil: abortion, stem-cell research, euthanasia and gay marriage. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to recognize what all of these have in common.

This is being done strictly so they can single out liberals and Dem politicians for excommunication while the hypocrites in the republican party literally get away with murder.

Well now. :eyes:

[July]

45. And didn't John Paul II come out strongly and repeatedly

against both?

I hope the Vatican straightens this clown out. Now voting the "wrong way" is a sin?

Somebody really wants to make the papers.

[LittleApple81]

11. Sorry. The Church lost so much MORAL AUTHORITY with their

response to child abuse, their attitude about women's participation in the real hierarchy (priesthood) that I don't know why their opinion should be taken at all.

[KittyWampus]

13. What About Catholics Who Practise Birth Control?

Pews would be next to empty.

[judge_smales]

14. Is it time

to split with Rome yet? I think it is.

[Loonman]

15. I thought this shit didn't exist in America?

What the fuck is the church doing getting involved in politics?

Make them pay fucking taxes.

[kskiska]

16. What would this guy do

if Rudy Giuliani and Arnold Schwarzenegger showed up on his doorstep requesting communion? It's obvious where he's coming from and why he's so selective in his reasoning.

[Loonman]

17. Diddling little kids

Is still A-OK!

[meow2u3]

18. What the hell is this? Vote Republican or go directly to hell?!

I always suspected many American bishops were partisan Republicans disguised as spiritual guides, but now they've confirmed my suspicions.


I always thought the Church forbade clergy to get involved in partisan politics. These partisan Repuke, Opus Dei-connected clergy tell us that if we vote for pro-choice politicians, we're denied communion. What they don't bother to tell us is that if we vote for Democrats--even pro-life Democrats--we're going to go to hell.

....do I have a compaint to the Pope now. I plan on lodging a complaint accusing bishops of disguising partisan politics as church morality.

[Kinkistyle]

19. Unfortunately Ex-communication does't have the impact it used to.

The Church is once again showing its obsolesence. What else is new. I wonder when they decide to "catch up" with the times. I believe the and the recognition of the heliocentric solar system and apology to Galileo was fairly recent. :eyes:

[Bill McBlueState]

28. very recent

I believe the ... recognition of the heliocentric solar system and apology to Galileo was fairly recent.

yeah, it was 1992.

:eyes:

[truthspeaker]

20. Good, show your true authoritarian colors

Maybe it will finally motivate liberal American Catholics to wise up and stop funding your corrupt "church".

[kskiska]

21. Funny how the Freeps seize on this issue

claiming that a person isn't really Catholic if they disagree with this, but when the Pope comes out against the war, he's not to be listened to.

[slackmaster]

22. Technical question for Roman Catholics regarding confession

Would there any limit to the number of times a Catholic could vote for a pro-choice candidate then immediately confess, recant, and repent, then take Communion (and repeat the whole cycle over again)?

[NoPasaran]

40. As a recovering catholic recalls the rules

Part of confession is sincerety in repentence, so going through this charade probably wouldn't be valid to a believer.

[No2W2004]

24. Waifer Nazi?

"No body of christ for you!"

[trogdor]

25. My question (and I will look into this myself)

Who do we go to where it will be the most effective if we want to quit the RCC over this? It would be just peachy if we were to get significant numbers of people to officially, on-the-record, in writing, and perhaps on the evening news, quit the RCC over this issue.

I believe Jesus' counsel to "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" extends to the entire issue of seperation of church and state, not just taxation.

[Jane Austin]

52. The Episcopal Church also has the

line of episcopal (bishops) succession all the way back to St. Peter.

The break back in England was a political one, which broke the ties to the Papacy in Rome, but not the line of succession.

The Episcopal liturgy is virtually identical to the Roman Catholic one, and even includes transubstantiation, unlike most other Protestant churches.

You can find a parish that will have a smorgasbord of services, from folk masses to high church services complete with inscence. There are even some charismatic Episcopal Churches.

Besides the lack of fealty to Rome, there is also less emphasis on Mary than the Roman church generally practices.

Try a few parishes out. You will find plenty of other communicants there who grew up in the Roman Catholic Church.

[THUNDER HANDS]

26. what, no death penalty?

fucking hypocrite

[Trajan]

27. As an Ex-Catholic turned Dedicated Atheist ...

I must say: I dont miss ya ....

One might presume that GOP catholics who promote these specific issues will ALSO be denied the sacraments ? ...

What about Catholic GOP supporters of the Death Penalty ? ...

Sen. Lizzie Dole, Senator of South Carolina and wife of former Senate Majority Leader Robert Dole, is a catholic who is known to possess pro-choice views ....

BTW: its been 31 years since my last confession: nothing further to report ...

Chuckles ...

[hyphenate]

30. kick

:kick:

[kodi]

31. okay, but only if the priest giving communion ain't a child molester

cuts both ways, don't it?

btw: is anyone going to mention to the bishop that the 7 blessed sacraments come from God, not the church.

[spanone]

32. The catholic church has as much moral high ground as bush* adm.

NONE.

[CBHagman]

34. The priest addressed this issue from the pulpit last Sunday.

He said he wasn't comfortable with the notion of a red or green light while giving out communion. The statement is very much in line with what the local bishiop has been saying so far. I was relieved that an individual priest would take on the subject and come down on the side of not judging individual communicants.

I had actually worn my Kerry button to church -- something I usually don't do, because I feel there are enough distractions at church already and we don't need advertising of any kind.

[gasperc]

35. pro death penalty voters should also be denied

a catholic

[Quahog]

36. "The Church" has made no such statement!

It pisses me off no end when non-Catholics with no knowledge of church doctrine or hierarchy start going off on what the church's "moral authority" is based on the statement of one bishop, especially when the bishop in question here is in schism with church doctrine.

Look, guys like this can say any God-damned thing they like (and I mean that literally). No lightning bolt will come from heaven and strike him down because he is about to utter something insane. He can come out and demand excommunication for all women who wear pink high heeled shoes to mass, and there is NO ONE who is going to stop him from making such statements. But he is ONE bishop, in ONE diocese, in ONE country... his statement means exactly NOTHING with regard to the doctrine of the Catholic church.

For those of you who are in the least bit interested in gathering a modicum of factual information before launching into yet another venomous, intolerant, anti-Catholic tirade, read on.

Per several priests I have asked about this issue in the wake of the announcement by Bishop Arinze that Kerry should not receive communion, NO priest may deny sacraments to a baptized, confirmed member of the Catholic church except under the most extraordinary of circumstances. This would require the priest knowing, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that the person was in an open and defiant state of serious, mortal sin, without remorse and with no intent to reconcile with God. The standard for making this judgement is so high that it's virtually impossible for any priest to make it. This is so for a reason: priests are human, and subject to error. To deny a Catholic access to God through the church because of hearsay or opinion or rumor or false evidence or impressions, in other words, whenever lacking absolute and irrefutable knowledge, would be a greivous sin.

Yes, the church maintains the power to excommunicate someone who is in open defiance of church doctrine and seeks by that defiance to undermine the authority of the church. But when was the last time you heard of someone being excommunicated? Be serious, if everyone who lives in open defiance of the church's stand on birth control was given the boot, the Catholic churches in America and Europe would be empty. The priest's job is to facilitate the relationship between the lay faithful and God, through the structure and laws of the church. No priest, or bishop for that matter, may arbitrarily decide when to curtail that relationship. It's simply not allowed.

Our parish had a Lenten mission where a Franciscan priest, Fr. Steven Almagno, came and lectured for a week. He made an excellent point: the church has two parts. One is eternal, immutable, and not subject to reform, because it comes directly from God. The other part is temporal, volatile, and constantly in need of reform, because it is from man, and therefore is characterized by all of the flaws and foibles and errors to which all men are subject. Sister Mary Therese may tell you, "Don't chew the host when you receive communion, because you're biting the baby Jesus." The bishop of Colorado Springs may say, "No communion for you if you vote Democratic." Problem is, these people are insane. Their insantiy does not keep them from speaking as though they have the authority of the church for their utterances, although clearly in both cases they are schismatic. This is a huge problem both within and outside the church - within, because so may lay Catholics have been taught so many wrong things about their faith that they are often confused and don't know what to believe, and without, because insane religious figures make news, and consequently people outside the church think that these lunatics are declaring doctrine.

When it comes to your beliefs versus mine, hey, I'm OK, you're OK. Believe or don't believe what you want... for the time being, that's still allowed in the USA. But please, I would very much appreciate it, as a faithful Catholic (whose political orientation, BTW, is somewhere between Ted Kennedy and Che Guevara), if people who have only opinions about Catholicism refrain from speaking with "authority" about the Catholic church without first checking their facts. You can find out what you need to know about Catholic doctrine easily. There are many web sites if that's your preferred mode of research. Or call up a priest and ask, most will be willing to talk with you about the tenets of the faith as long as you're not simply being abusive. Or just talk to a Catholic, the planet is crawling with us.

But please, out of respect for fellow DUers and in the name of truth and honesty, don't run around declaring "The church has said this" or "Church law demands that" when what you are really talking about is the statement of Bishop Sheridan of Colorado Springs. The guy is a whack job.

[truthspeaker]

41. you're right, BUT

criticizing the very real failings, and they are legion, of the Catholic church is not an "anti-Catholic tirade" any more than criticizing the Mussolini administration is an anti-Italian tirade.

[July]

46. He is ONE bishop, as you say ... and we're all talking about him.

I would say that's Mission Accomplished for him and anyone who encouraged him to speak out. Not every Catholic will know whether they should ignore this bishop or not. Meanwhile, he's getting the notion out there that it will be some kind of "sin" to vote for Kerry. Don't you smell dirty tricks?

[DU GrovelBot]

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[CO Liberal]

39. Bishop Sheridan Is "Intrinsically Evil"

Dumb bastard!

[SaveElmer]

43. Thank God I saw the light and bolted

The Catholic church is living in th 12th century...If every pro-choice catholic were denied communion, they would probably lose more than half their membership...Al Gore won the Catholic vote last time if I'm not mistaken

[kentuck]

47. Communion = Religion too close to poliics

The ritual does not belong in political discussions. No religion seems to have the ritualistic demands of the Catholic Church, in regards to individual political decisions, in my opinion.

[Oddman]

48. My Pedophile Priest takes communion . . .

Does the bishop say why he doesn't believe that supporting the death penalty is not as important as being pro choice??

[TrogL]

49. Time to examine their tax-exempt status

[dansolo]

50. A war of aggression is not "intrinsically evil"?

Not according to the Pope.

[Snellius]

51. Conservative Catholics trying to prevent Sen. Schumer from speaking

The Newman Society, a conservative watchdog of Catholic orthodoxy, is condemning our local Dominican college for permitting Senator Schumer to speak at the school's commencement for a few minutes because he is against criminalizing abortion.

[KamaAina]

54. Queen takes Bishop, checkmate

That's the move someone needs to make, right now, to make the board safe for the rest of us Pawns.

You were wondering why I haven't gone back to the Church after all these years???

[ieoeja]

55. Priest: Will do ... as soon as you order same for death penalty advocates

Thought there ought to be one post on this thread demonstrating that the Roman Catholic heirarchy does not agree 100% with this sort of nonsense.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/greeley/cst-edt-greel07.html


I read another article a few weeks ago from a bishop or cardinal, forget which, who pointed out that THEY represent the church while a politician represents the people most of whom are not Catholic. Don't have a link to that article though. I believe it was bishop or cardinal in Washington, DC. So it was probably in the Washington Post.