I hear a calm American voice, and not just on the Berg tape, saying

[Minstrel Boy]

"How wicked was that?"


"How wicked was that?"


"How wicked was that?"


"How wicked was that?"


"How wicked was that?"


"How wicked was that?"


"How wicked was that?"


"How wicked was that?"


"How wicked was that?"


"How wicked was that?"


"How wicked was that?"


"How wicked was that?"

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

1. one of the most powerful posts ive ever seen...

[lovedems]

3. agreed. eom

[Doug Decker]

5. Agreed, great post...

and welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Tinoire]

12. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[bedtimeforbonzo]

2. question...

what does the 'how wicked was that' refer to? Was that on the Berg tape?

[Minstrel Boy]

10. yes..

At the end of the tape: "How wicked was that... huh? - pause - and what sounds like "How we gonna -"

At any rate, that's what I hear.

[Lex]

13. Yep.

Many people say that there is an audible American voice at the end of the Berg video that says "How wicked was that?"

[LittleApple81]

4. Thanks. Nothing happens in a vacuum. n/t

[xultar]

6. WOW

[treepig]

7. "How wicked was that?"

that was wicked bad!!

[Straight Shooter]

8. Minstrel Boy, you've really done it this time

Awesome. Great research. Great post.

[phillybri]

9. Gave me chills...

Thanks...

[Tinoire]

11. Wow. Thank you! Excellent n/t

[tom_paine]

14. Yes, the Busheviks have been at this for quite some time

You think they came up with this idea to destroy the American Experiment, restore the Monarchy and Aristocracy, rig the system to prevent the voice of the Serfs from being heard (or our votes tallied), stack the courts not with judges but with Nazi-style "judges" with no regard for the Law but bootlickign their Fuhrer, and on and on and on...

You think Prescott and Poppy Bush and Unka Dick and Unka Karl just sort of came up with it on a whim?

The Bush Family has been performing treason on America for years.

[Minstrel Boy]

23. You know it, tom.

Some of us have only recently noticed the dark actors playing games, but they've been playing a long time. If the coup of 2000 was a beginning, it was the beginning of their endgame.

[Beam Me Up]

15. you forgot a couple

"How wicked was Waco?"


"How wicked was Murrah?


And they have connections to WTC1, 9/11 and Berg.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. How wicked was

IRAN/CONTRA


PANAMA

[Tina H]

21. Waco wasn't wicked

It was wicked cool.

We really showed those fundies!

[Syncronaut Seven]

33. Your suppost to note your sarcasm

at the end of your post. Otherwise peoples might take you seriously.

[Tina H]

37. what emoticon do you use . . .

when your intended level of ironic detachment is halfway between sarcasm and earnestness (eg, mixed feelings).

Reply #26 on this thread might help explain why my feelings are so confused and mixed up on the Waco thing.

On edit: I did download the audio and isolated the 2 second portion, slowed it down a bit and equalized it a bit for clarity. It is pretty clear that someone is saying "how wicked is that." I wish I could upload the excerpt I made, but I don't really have access to my website right now. I imagine that the official explanation will be that a stray remark of a recording engineer ended up on the tape as it was processed for mass distro. Still, it seems pretty fishy.

[Minstrel Boy]

39. Ever see "Waco: The Rules of Engagement"?

I have, and I think the appropriate emoticon is :cry:

[Tina H]

40. Oh yeah, I have seen it

I recommend it, but of course, am in no position to vouch for the accuracy of its implications and inferences. It seems to put the Clinton admin in kind of an unflattering light.

[Bertha Venation]

26. you lost me

The U.S. government was behind the debacle that began w/ a fundy nutbag holding people hostage and became Waco?

Even more unbelievable -- the U.S. government was behind OKC?

And how do these have connections to WTC1, 9/11, and Nick Berg?

[redqueen]

34. Don't know if they were 'in on it'

But reportedly the FBI did have an informant in the militia group that McVeigh was in.

Also they hid the tape of McVeigh and his unknown collaborator leaving the van at the Murrah building.

:(

[Beam Me Up]

41. Bertha, your own phraseology is what is 'losing' you.

I did not say "the U.S. government" was "behind" anything. That is your projection of meaning of my adding these two instances of atrocity to the list. The phrase "the U.S. government" covers a lot of territory. My perspective is informed by readings in the subject areas of deep politics and the National Security State.

Whatever their causes, such events as Manson's Tate murders, the SLA kidnapping of Patricia Hearst and all that followed from it, Jonestown, Ruby Ridge, and all those listed above, are eruptions of violence conveyed by electronic media into our national psyche. They have helped shape our sense of national identity--who "we" are and who "the other" is. An interesting aspect of each of these instances is that the more one delves into them, the more one sees that the representation given to us by the corporate media is at best simplistic, often quite inaccurate and curiously contrived to deflect deeper analysis.

This is ONE of the ways that my additions are related to those depicted by minstralboy.

[Bertha Venation]

50. I understand you much better now, thank you.

My meaning is lost when I try to use subtlety, and I often miss others' meaning when they use it.

[Beam Me Up]

51. I hear you and I'll try to do better

It is difficult to find the time to delve deeply into these subjects. I think it is damn interesting that Nick Berg at least appeared to be trying to penetrate AQ and was 'befrinded' by an Iraqi man who also spoke at a Free Republic pro-Iraq war rallly--not to mention that FR 'outed' Berg through his parents' membership in ANSWER. I also sense parallels and connections to other things . . .

For example:

the real story . . . is complex, shadowy and sinister. It stretches, weblike, from America's heartland to the nation's capital, the Far East, Europe and the Middle East, and much of it remains a mystery. There may be reasons why this is so, but perhaps the most important has been the U.S. government. And, in the end, the . . . conspiracy may not merely be the crime itself but also the systematic, deliberate attempt of our federal government to prevent all of us from finding out what exactly happened . . . ."

Said not about Berg, that is Stephen Jones, lead attorney for Timothy McVeigh, in his book, Others Unknown: The Oklahoma City Bombing Case and Conspiracy.

[Tina H]

43. "and became Waco" ??

ahhhh, the old passive voice trick.

Always a good tack when mistakes were arguably made.

[Bertha Venation]

49. how's that?

I wasn't clear. The point in saying "and became Waco" was "the incident that started out as a fundy nutbag in a hostage standoff, then became the horrible-on-so-many-levels debacle that we refer to as Waco."

Got it?

[Tina H]

53. even assuming it is fair to use words like "kidnapping" and . . .

"hostages" to describe the situation at the compound (and I don't think these words are exactly apt here), my point is that not all hostage situation responses are created equal. Some are handled better than others. Decisions are made -- sometimes good decisions, other times evil or ignorant decisions.

Sure, Waco became Waco. More specifically, Waco became Waco as a result of serious, reckless mishandling by the federal government. In the future, America is sure to produce more fundie nutbags with more vulnerable, willing followers. I sure hope that all those situations do not "become" Waco's. I do not think they need to.

[SayitAintSo]

52. Does Watergate belong here ?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

16. kick. For Dr. David Kelly also.

[tom_paine]

17. Kelly "He took a walk by himself in the woods"

The Gestapo used to use that euphemism, too.

Just another little similarity between Prewscott Bush's Business Partners and Prescott Bush's monstrous grandchildren

(just wait until the Caligula/Nero generation of Bushes gets their meathooks into us)

[electroluxs]

18. What? No WTC jumpers?

Isn't complete without people jumping from the towers by the dozens.

[NNN0LHI]

22. We try not to post too many pics of the people jumping at the WTC

Its because the Rethugs get a woody every time they see them.

Don

[NewYorkerfromMass]

29. He posted a WTC pic

do we need to get into the complete gore?

[Minstrel Boy]

32. I thought I saw that coming:

[Alerter_]

54. they post those on FreeRepublic.com everyday

They love the people jumping out of the tower pictures.

[truebrit71]

20. Very powerful post...

..wow...

I thought I heard it too.....

[Jim Warren]

25. A piece of the thread running through

How wicked was that:

Nazi intelligence gathering training manual used at the School of the Americas.


Powerful indeed MB!

[Minstrel Boy]

31. Good point.

I know, it gives one the appearance of a hysteric to scream "Nazis!", but since Nazis thanks to Project Paperclip, and Nazi sympathizers and financiers, helped birth the National Security State, it's really not so out of line.

America must be the unluckiest country in the world, to be plagued by such a string of bizarre, unfortunate coincidences...

[redqueen]

35. Don't forget Operation ARTICHOKE

It makes me sad that some Democrats support the 'new' School of the Americas. :(

[rumguy]

24. What's the story here?

I'm confused.

[Bertha Venation]

27. holy Christ, Minstrel Boy.

VERY well put.

[Solomon]

28. Mana from heaven.

:kick:

[Bandit]

30. And they are just getting started

Truly, I say to you,
as you did it to
one of the least of these,
my brethren,
you did it to me."

you did it to me

[redqueen]

36. Way past time to stop acting like scared children

Americans need to wake up.

Operation Paperclip
Operation Artichoke
Operation Northwoods
MK-ULTRA

And now this... we should have seen this coming.
:cry:

[seemslikeadream]

38. WAKE UP AMERICA AND SMELL THE FLESH

smell the palpable, ghastly odor of burning human flesh



WOULD YOU HAVE HELPED?


Any of us who've read about that horrific era are terrified by the thought of it, the photographs, even by meeting people who lived through it. Our hearts break. We cannot possibly comprehend. How can we say, "We're sorry"? It is not enough.

But of what are we most afraid? I personally think what torments us most about that piece of charred history is our not really knowing how we'd have reacted had we been non-Jewish Germans living in Deutschland at that time. Oh, many of us loudly insist we'd have taken a stand, protested, put a stop to the slaughter of millions. In fact many did try, some were successful, but many ended paying the ultimate price for their heroism.

We are left wondering if we really would have had the courage to stand up to the black, brutal violence of Nazism, if we would have had the bravery to save even one life; Jewish, Gypsy, homosexual, mentally or physically handicapped, or any marked for extermination in order that the so-called Aryan race be kept pure. Would we? Would you? Would I?

I've pondered on this problem a great deal over the years. I was alive, happy and thriving back in the 1930s and 40s while millions were dying in ways so horrible most of us cannot touch our minds to the thought of it for fear it will burn into the very core of our psyches. Children like me were being ripped to pieces. Who knew? Did you? Did we? Did I?

I wonder if I'd been a parent in Germany with a family I loved and knew what was happening, and yet because a horrible war was exploding all around me, would I have had the courage to scream "Stop!!"? Would I have taken the terrible chance that my family would be piled amongst the slaughtered because of my heroics? If I lived near a crematorium and could smell the palpable, ghastly odor of burning human flesh, would I have called a meeting of my neighbors, demanding to know what that was? Would I, like so many did, have spent my life protesting, "But we just didn't know!" Would I have put my beloved family at risk to save complete strangers?

more
http://www.vansavage.com/columns/holocaust.shtml

[Minstrel Boy]

42. I wish I'd seen this image earlier:

"How wicked was that?"

[FreakinDJ]

44. So you know them ......BFEE

[spooked]

45. I also hear

How Wicked Was That?



http://www.geocities.com/northstarzone/HINCKLEY.html

HINCKLEY: HIT MAN FOR THE SHADOW GOVERNMENT?
What is more dangerous for the future of our country than a conspiracy to assassinate a president? It is a conspiracy to manipulate and control what the American people are told by the national news media. There are scores of unanswered questions surrounding the event of the afternoon of March 30, 1981. For instance, John Chancellor, eyebrows raised, informed the viewers of NBC Nightly News that the brother of the man who tried to kill the president was acquainted with the son of the man who would have become president if the attack had been successful. As a matter of fact, Chancellor said in a bewildered tone, Scott Hinckley and Neil Bush had been scheduled to have dinner together at the home of the vice president's son the very next night.

[TryingToWarnYou]

46. Excellent post

I hear it too. I replayed the video portion about 5 times and its extremely clear. Im going to ask my wife to listen as she refuses to watch. It will be interesting to know if she hears it too.

[spooked]

47. And How Wicked IS this?

[crossroads]

57. VERY!

:kick:

[Octafish]

48. A post worthy of the DU Permanent Collection.

Thanks, Minstrel Boy! Just when things are looking up, I remember how far we still need to climb.

"How wicked was that?"

[nonconformist]

55. Kick

Too powerful to fall away.

[crossroads]

56. WOW!

:eyes: