How many tunnels has Israel found during its Rafah raids?

[keithyboy]

Couldn't post this in I/P because it doesn't fit the criteria which does not allow for anything other than threads based on recent news...almost like LBN. So I am asking the question here and really want to the answer if anyone can give it.

[lil-petunia]

1. I've been looking

and so far nary a one.

More effective was their threat and demand to round up each and every male between the ages of 14-70. I wondered if they wanted to brand their foreheads at the same time, you know, like cattle.

[JM]

4. Nice rhetoric

Let's just pose two scenarios.

1) You are in Israeli intelligence, and have been infiltrating Hamas to the point Hamas is more concerned about spies than anything else. You receive what appears to be valid intelligence that shipments of arms are coming in through tunnels from Egypt to a certain location. Knowing what the arms will be used for, do you act?

2) You are a ranking member of Hamas, and assume that your ranks have been infiltrated by Israeli intelligence. You want to know who your spies are, and perhaps want to do some counterintelligence by moving your arms through elsewhere. You tell at least one of your suspected spies that the arms are moving through tunnels to Rafah, even though you know they are not. When Israel moves in, you now have a good idea who your spy is, you have egg all over the face of your enemy, and you can move the arms through elsewhere.

It seems a little too easy to just infer the Israelis are like Nazis without a little thought going into the process.

JM

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JohnLocke]

9. When did she say THAT?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

10. Simple

He fully believes the Mossad when they said they have this imminent threat, that there are tunnels, and that they need to go on this bloody crusade immediately in order to sniff it out. How, exactly, is this situation any different from the CIA telling us that Iraq is an imminent threat, that they have WMDs, and that we needed to go on a bloody crusade immediately in order to sniff it out?

On edit: He further believes that Hamas covered up their tunnels so as to embaress the Mossad. How is this any different from Bush having us believe the Iraqis moved or buried the WMDs?

[JM]

12. If you are referring to post #4

If you are referring to post #4, please red on. Otherwise feel free to ignore this.

"He fully believes"

1) If you are referring to my post above, I don't think I stated anything you said as fact, nor do I state them as my beliefs. I stated them as scenarios which are possibilities. If I didn't make that clear, then shame on me.

2) Despite the fact that Mossad has one hell of a better track record in the region than our CIA, they can be fooled like anyone else. It is not much different as you state, nor do I defend IDF action that takes a net-casting approach.

3) I said nothing of the sort regarding Hamas. My intent was to say they could easily leak the fact they are moving arms through tunnel A in order to ferret out a spy on their saide, and send the arms through tunnel B, which the spy does not know about. Disinformation works in every direction. This in no way implies they are covering up tunnels.

Please read more carefully. I have a spouse to put words in my mouth. I don't need anyone else's help

JM

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. My apologies for the misunderstanding

You weren't very clear, however, in stating that you were simply looking at it from all sides. Still, I should have been more careful as well, and for that I apologize.

[truthspeaker]

2. We don't know because reporters aren't allowed in.

Just take the IDF's word for it. What are you, anti-semitic? </sarcasm>

[JohnLocke]

3. Link.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=431681

[keithyboy]

5. Thanks for the link but it still doesn't indicate how many tunnels have

been found during these raids in Rafah.

[JohnLocke]

6. About ten.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/05/25/international1442EDT0606.DTL

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. A cursory reading says 3 found, 10 suspected. fwiw

The army said it uncovered three tunnels and detained 10 wanted men for questioning.

Military officials said they believe there are about 10 tunnels in Rafah, and Gaza commander Maj. Gen. Dan Harel suggested troops may resume the search later.

[Stockholm]

11. Should be easy to calculate...

Count how many houses IDF has demolished in Rafah (which is standard practice when they find a tunnel).

Best practice seems to be to also tear down the closest neighboring houses when they have the bulldozers out so my guess would be between 2-4 houses per tunnel (3).

Divide the number of demolished houses by 3 and presto, you have the number of tunnels.

[redqueen]

14. "They must pay the price"

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/430575.html

(snip)

In past years, these three generals - Sharon, Mofaz and Ya'alon - have been responsible for a long list of despicable acts. At the end of last week, Haidar Hasuna told an investigator from B'Tselem, the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories, about bulldozers that began to demolish his home in the besieged Tel Sultan neighborhood in Rafah, when he was sitting with his wife and children in their living room. When he tried to leave the house, he was floored by tank fire. Miraculously, the family survived.

Members of the Mantsur family from the Brazil neighborhood told Haaretz's Amira Hass how they fled barefoot from their home as the IDF began to demolish it. A few months before this incident, a pregnant woman was killed during similar house demolition circumstances in the El Bureij refugee camp, in plain view of her children. Somebody is responsible.

The mass demolition of innocent civilians' houses in Rafah is considered a war crime under criteria accepted around the world - despite the fact that the High Court has given the demolitions its typical stamp of approval. And this crime is no orphan; it has parents. And these parents must no longer be indulged. It's wrong to continue to blame the errant tank shell, and the tunnels and the terrorists themselves, for every lethal blunder committed by the IDF.

The virtual imprisonment of the Palestinian people, the prevention of medical care, the mass arrests, the assassinations, the needless killing, the bombing of residential neighborhoods - the prime minister, the defense minister, the IDF chief of staff and other top officers all bear responsibility for such acts.

(snip)