Anybody else hearing the Dean rumors?

[newsguyatl]

a couple of sources of MINE are hearing word from the Kerry camp, the Dean camp and DNC folks that he's in line to become the next DNC chair...

Anyone else heard anything?

[WI_DEM]

1. not me

but I would be delighted. The DLC would hate it, but who cares.

[MarianJack]

2. I Think...

...he'd do a hell of a good job!

[Killarney]

3. I haven't heard anything, but I think that would be GREAT!

I think he'd be fantastic as the DNC Chair.

[Wickerman]

4. that would shake things up a tad!

:P

[FleshCartoon]

5. I haven't heard that one.

But I like it. Good start on reforming the party.

[kentuck]

6. Perfect job!

He knows how to raise money and he knows how to fire up the base.

[onecitizen]

7. Oh Wow!!

I hope it's true. I miss him so.

[demnan]

8. That would be great!

I am so fond of the good Doctor!

[slinkerwink]

9. you're the first one to tell me, but that would be awesome for Dean!

[supernova]

10. A terrific job for Dean

if this rumor is true. :thumbsup:

[Justitia]

11. That would be magnificent!!

Someone who earned the job before accepting it, too.

Who could be a better champion for Dem ideals?
It would actually renew my hope / faith that not all is lost for our party.
And it would be step one in balancing out the evil DLC influence that is killing us.

God, I hope it's true! Keep us posted.

:bounce:

[Bombtrack]

12. Sounds like wishful thinking to me

I wouldn't be that apposed to the idea, but it's very unlikely to believe Kerry would appoint a person who ran a smear campaign against him to a position that traditionally is only given to those who have a great trust from the party leader.

[truthspeaker]

13. you have that backwards: Kerry ran smear campaign against Dean

Dean never smeared Kerry, to my knowledge.

[Loonman]

16. Oh please

http://www.hillnews.com/news/101503/kerry.aspx

http://www.detnews.com/2004/politics/0401/30/a08-50422.htm

[Bombtrack]

19. Oh yeah, centering your entire campaign around the precept that

all of your serious opponents are not "real democrats" is not a smear. Dean ran his campaign by the sigretti playbook, go negative from the beginning and never let up. And he added his utterly hypocritical spin to it of complaining that you are a "pincushon" and whine to the party Chairman, when a retalliation is forced on you from what you instigated. He was the first person to go negative in every sense and every medium in the campaign.

[truthspeaker]

23. but did he compare Kerry to Osama bin Laden?

That's what Kerry did to Dean.

Dean's attacks against Kerry weren't smears because they were true.

[sangh0]

26. Dean did worse. He compared Kerry to Bush*

And no one compared Dean to OBL. The commercial you refer to made the point that Dean was not a good candidate on fighting terrorism. It did not compare Dean to OBL.

It's incredible how these commercials are designed to be understood by even the dumbest of viewers, yet you still misunderstood the commercial.

[truthspeaker]

28. but flashed the picture of OBL

Not to mention the allegation that Dean was not a good candidate on fighting terrorism was itself a smear.

[Bombtrack]

30. Not to mention it wasn't financed or authorized by Kerry

And did more to help Dean than Kerry.

[stilladeaniac]

72. It wasn't directly financed by the Kerry camp but....

We all knew it came from them.

The ad's funders were heavy Gephardt/Kerry supporters. This was a DLC ad, period, and I don't think anyone can question that.

[stickdog]

50. I understood the obvious, pathetic SMEAR perfectly.

I also understand that Dean is helping Kerry against Bush.

So far, most of Dean's supporters are listening to him and plamnning on voting for a pro-war candidate.

So why the continued attacks on the man?

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dsc]

40. On the subject of lies

Here is Kerry at the Detroit debate.

The Burnett (ph) family in Colfax, Iowa, earned $70,000. But under his plan, they are going to pay $2,178 more in taxes because they lose the child credit to raise their children, they pay a penalty for being married again because he puts it back, and they lose the 10 percent bracket, as everybody else here does. So you begin to be taxed at 15 percent, not 10 percent.

Those aren't Bush Republican cuts, those are the Democrat cuts that we worked hard to put in place to protect the middle class.

end of quote

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A21551-2003Oct26¬Found=true

He used the same exact tactic to produce phoney figures in favor of his tax plan as Bush did to produce them for his. It is very hard to argue that Kerry wasn't behaving exactly as Bush had which was Dean's point.

[blm]

39. Wrong. Kerry, in fact, even condemned those ads.

And Dean sure made a name for himself calling Kerry Bushlite which was wholly absurd since Kerry has a 30 plus year record well to Dean 's left while Dean governed for 11 years as a centrist.

[dsc]

47. Kerry did no such thing

He did have a flunky send a letter which sort of condemned the ad. Those are very different things as you used to say when it involved attacks issued by Kerry's spokesman toward Dean. BTW just how is it not Bush light to use the very same tactics Bush did to defend part of the tax cut Bush passed?

[blm]

49. How is it not Bushlite to publically state

"It's easy to second-guess the commander-in-chief at a time of war. I choose not to do that." Dean, MTP July 2002, siding with Bush in a direct response to Kerry's criticisms of the failed military strategy at Tora Bora.

Guess we all have the shit we don't like, eh dsc? We can all be SELECTIVE over the issues, eh dsc?

Sorry for you your centrist governor lost, but I'm ecstatic for ME that the lifetime liberal Kerry is the nominee and so are the many others who support the Senator who exposed more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history.

[dsc]

Stop being dishonest about what I say

You know in real time that I disagreed with Dean on Tora Bora. Don't report what I say unless you do so accrately. I was not selective here and you are utterly dishonest to say I was.

[blm]

67. Stop being dishonest about what I said.

I said that we all have issues that ticked us off. You didn't like Kerry's tax position of eliminating the tax break just for the rich which legitimatized the Bushlite label for you.

I got ticked at Dean's public support of Bush against Kerry over a very important military matter and feel he was acting more like Bushlite during the early part of his campaign.


So...we all have our points, eh dsc?

[dsc]

70. This is what you said

"It's easy to second-guess the commander-in-chief at a time of war. I choose not to do that." Dean, MTP July 2002, siding with Bush in a direct response to Kerry's criticisms of the failed military strategy at Tora Bora.

Guess we all have the shit we don't like, eh dsc? We can all be SELECTIVE over the issues, eh dsc?

end of quote

There is one, and only one, reading of what you wrote. The clear implication of what you wrote is that I agreed with what Dean said on Tora Bora (that is the only defintion of selective). THat is baldly, totally, and utterly false and you knew it or should have known it (you replied to posts where I stated the direct opposite). I am sick of you doing this and then dishonestly claiming you don't. I can't call it what it is but we both know what it is. You, as you often do, accused me of being inconsistent, and you, as you nearly always have been, are utterly wrong.

I note that you didn't answer my main point, probably due to the fact that unlike you I actually accurately reported what you said.

[blm]

71. No. You posted what YOU found to be Bushlite and I posted what I found

to be Bushlite. You always choose to interpret posts to claim victimhood.

Tough. I ain't buying into it.

[dsc]

74. You are just like the Queen of Hearts

words mean exactly what you say they mean. Too bad for you this isn't Wonderland. Here on planet earth when one accuses someone of being selective and sights an issue on which they supposedly had, they have to show that the person actually took the postion claimed. Not only didn't I take the position you claimed I took the opposite of the position you claimed. Again, this is your usual behavior down to the "you are interpreting what I wrote bullshit". I would ask you for a source but I don't wish to hear what your child needs to see on the net today.

[blm]

75. Haha...you have GOT to be kidding.

I said YOU selected your issue to paint Kerry as Bushlite - taxes, and I chose mine to point fingers at Dean - his siding with Bush over Kerry on MTP.

See what you want to see, dsc. I don't give a hoot anymore. You'll never stop misinterpreting other posts and never stop claiming victimhood.

[dsc]

76. whatever

I am still waiting for the link where Gary Hart called Dean unqualified. I am still waiting for the link where Dean push polled. I am still waiting for the link where Kerry, and not a spokeperson, denounced those ads. Yet, you never put words in people's mouths. You are pure as the driven snow. Sure.

[blm]

77. The Gary Hart and pushpoll links were posted DOZENS of times.

You're not being honest and you know it. You always CONVENIENTLY claim you didn't see them.

Kerry's CAMPAIGN denounced the Osama ads. That isn't good enough for you, TOUGH.

[dsc]

78. and neither one says what you claim

as I have pointed out plenty of times. BTW I have repeatedly stated, including in the post you just responded to, that Kerry's spokesperson repudiated the ads (and in real time when you showed me the link I apologized for saying the Kerry campaign hadn't done so) but my point is that KERRY HIMSELF didn't. But yet again you dishonestly report what I said. You literally can't help yourself.

[blm]

80. WHO GIVES A FOCK if it was him or his campaign

who issued the statement?

You just use that distinction as a crutch to continue your complaining.

[dsc]

81. It is the same distinction you repeatedly used when it suited you

Time and again when people supporting Dean complained about things the Kerry spokesman said, you said it wasn't Kerry, but his spokesman. If it is different when it is negative stuff about Dean, then it should also be different when it is denouncing negative stuff about Dean. It is your distinction, not mine. But once you decide they are different, you need to stick to your decision.

But my point overall is that you had, yet again, not accurately reported what I said. It is a habit you have.

[blm]

82. So YOU say. Any impartial person can read this thread

and draw a different conclusion.

Good bye, dsc.

[Poor Richard]

83. Dean just told the truth

you THOUGHT it was hell

[WI_DEM]

17. they are two politicians

who both fought hard. I think Kerry attacked Dean as much as Dean attacked Kerry--or the way the democratic party as a whole was, in Dean's view, not being aggressive enough against Bush. It seems to me that Dean and Kerry have buried the hatchet and are working together very well.

[Adelante]

36. Kerry's a politician and a grown-up

I seriously doubt he dwells much on anything that went on in the primaries. Dean is obviously important to him now.

[mzmolly]

41. You mean a person who campaigned for him raising 500,000 dollars

don't you?

[AntiCoup2K4]

52. Uh, you left out the most important part

He raised 500,000 in one afternoon :)

And while this is the first I've heard of such rumors, there's no doubt that Howard Dean would be superior in every imaginable way as DNC chair to the pathetic clown Terry McUseless.

[Comadreja]

14. Sounds plausible

Dean raised a lot of bucks for Kerry as well as endorsing him. This is the kind of support the DNC would reward. It would definitely improve my attitude toward the organization, though I would hope that dean wouldn't become corporatized as a result.

[stinkeefresh]

15. hadn't heard, but-

I think that's the best suggestion for Dean's new role yet. I don't think he's right for the cabinet, but could be perfect for DNC.

[Renew Deal]

18. I haven't heard it, but I'm not surprised.

It's a good fit for him.

[KittyWampus]

20. No, So I Guess You Are The One Spreading The Rumor

that said, sounds like a good idea.

[apathy]

21. Thats the best news I have heard all day

great!

[Kazak]

22. YEEEEAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!!

Let's hope so! :)

[noonwitch]

24. He did a good job raising money for his primary campaign

He's a good choice, for that reason and to inject a little new blood into the national party.

[Lugnut]

25. If it's true....

Yeeeaaaaggggghhhhhhh!!!!!

:bounce: :toast: :party: :bounce: :toast: :party: :bounce: :toast: :party: :bounce: :toast: :party: :bounce: :toast:

[Cleita]

27. Raising money seems a waste of what Dr. Dean has to offer.

I would like his talents put to better use in a Kerry administration.

[Justitia]

32. I know what you mean, but his other talents are invaluable

He has the uncanny ability to crystallize Democratic ideals, and he has been phenomenally successful in motivating new Dem candidates at the most grassroots level.

He is doing loads of heavy-lifting for the party, and giving newbies the courage to speak up and get involved. He is a hardworking visionary who sees we have to rework our party from the bottom up if we want strong, quality Dems in our ranks.

Of course I would love for him to have a much higher visibility, but he seems more than willing to take on the really hard work - kudos to him. A man w/a long-term plan.

[IrateCitizen]

46. Dean's strength would be getting the DNC away from just raising money

He would provide a much needed impetus to get back to developing real, viable grassroots networks; along with making the Democratic Party a round-the-year organization with a coherent vision for the future.

Terry McAuliffe was a miserable failure as DNC chair, precisely because he either failed or didn't even bother to try to do the things above. We can't rely on bucks as the underlying strategy of running campaigns. The Republicans will always beat us in fundraising. Where we beat them is with organization.

I think that this would be a much-needed kick in the pants for the DNC, and a welcome move. There have been rumors of it for some time now.

[ewagner]

31. I wasn't a Dean supporter

but I think he'd be perfect for the job!

The energy, enthusiasm, and pure, unmitigated guts he would bring to the party would be just what we need right now.

[GreenPartyVoter]

33. Well-put.

He was my second choice behind Dennis to head up the ticket, but this could be good too.

[librechik]

45. yes--a gutsy iconoclast who's a fiscal conservative!

I'd love to see this happen. He's a proven fundraiser too!

[RetroLounge]

34. That would be great! He'd be a wonderful Chair of DNC

of course, the Dean Haters will be here soon whining about it...

RL

[sandnsea]

35. Governor Dean, yes

Dean the Presidential candidate, uhm, no. But I think Dean would be much more like he was as Governor, so he'd probably be great as DNC chair. I do think he has a better understanding of what every day people think than Terry McAuliffe has.

[madfloridian]

37. Hi Newsguy, haven't seen you around in a while.

Good to see you.

:hi:

[Beloved Citizen]

38. From Your Lips To God's Ear!

We need to bring in all our players.

[mzmolly]

42. WOW! I HOPE I HOPE I HOPE I HOPE...

Crossing fingers, legs and nose hairs!!!

This would be a perfect position for Dean!!!! YEAAASS!

[PaDUer]

43. What ELSE are you

hearing? Dump it all here.

[mzmolly]

44. Here's a website trying to make this happen...

http://www.deanfordemocrats.com/

WHY DEAN

As Governor of Vermont, Dean was the Chair of the Democratic Governors’ Association. His contacts from around the country will allow him to gather support, build consensus, and expand Democratic Party membership nationwide.

Dean has a genuine record of achieving Democratic goals: providing healthcare to nearly every Vermonter, successfully reforming Vermont’s education system outside the flawed No Child Left Behind model, and raising the minimum wage twice during his tenure. Dean’s experience and pragmatic style would bring our Party a proven fundraiser, an accomplished champion of our values, and someone with the courage to overcome the venomous, divisive, and hateful rhetoric of the Republican National Committee.

Governor Dean’s political career, beginning with a local grassroots effort to build a bicycle path, continuing to five terms as Vermont’s Governor, and leading to his current position as trusted spokesman for hundreds of thousands of Democrats suggests valuable tactical experience. He has achieved results at the most local level with the basest grassroots organization, he has achieved results as Executive of a state working with legislators, adjudicators, lobbyists, and constituents. And he has achieved the trust and belief of breathtaking numbers of nationwide Democratic Party members.

We need a Chair with just such experience. One who can unite our grassroots base and bring it together with those more established organizations that have historically supported the Democratic Party. One who is committed to bringing our Party’s message and appeal to Americans who have been voting and donating to the Republican Party against their own interest. One who knows politics from the very top to the very bottom. One who knows how to inspire, how to lead, how to accomplish, and how to stand up to the Republican vitriol machine.

[MissB]

48. Good, if the rumors are true. (nt)

[LandOLincoln]

51. God, I hope so. That's the perfect job for him.

I was a big Dean fan--he was my second choice, as a matter of fact--right up until the time in mid-December when he, Joe Trippi and George Stephanopoulous contrived/conspired to evicerate Wes Clark.

Then I did a little digging and discovered that St. Howard was Just Another Politician--mean as a snake and Machiavellian as all hell.

Which is exactly what we need as DNC chair.
Bend over and kiss your a** goodbye, Eddie G., you chinless wonder...

And if you think I'm being sarcastic, think again.

[Eloriel]

56. Yes, that's the impression you would get if you read and

believed some of the negative spin about him. I was always terribly disappointed in DUers who fell for that shit. Some of the hatchet jobs on him were just SO transparent.

[madfloridian]

69. Did you read this Atlantic article? A different take on it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2004/06/green.htm

[AspenRose]

53. Jesse Jackson quote

"If the Democrats win, over the inauguration will be the halo of Howard Dean."

Sounds like a good job for him.

[mzmolly]

54. I LOVE THAT QUOTE!!!

:hi:

[Eloriel]

55. Might be the best way to shut him up --

I've thought about this a bit this afternoon. I've always been against the idea, frankly, but now after thinking about it, even more so.

I can't imagine anyone in Kerry's circle -- or the DLC -- would want Dean to truly "do his thing" under the official DNC mantle. They don't want HIM and esp. not his ideas, so IF they appoint him (or try to), they'd make sure he were muzzled and only able to raise money and try to wake up the electorate. Those aren't bad goals, but IMO Dean is more than that. He woke up the electorate BECAUSE he was more than that, not because he was more of the same ole, same ole.

He wouldn't be able to be a gadfly and general PITB waking up folks in Congress -- or a President Kerry -- either.

He genuinely wanted to return power to The People. Very few people in Washington (or anywhere else) want that. So either this rumor doesn't have much to it, or the real goal is to shut him up by isolating him and putting him in a place where he CAN'T criticize Dems.

Yep, I'm very much against it.

[molly]

57. Nope.

[NashVegas]

58. I Heard Those Back in March/April

but nothing since then.

[Fleshdancer]

59. this is EXACTLY what I hoped for!

I want a pitbull and Dean fits that description. He can obviously raise money, people believe in him, he's intelligent without being "slick"...and most important of all....I would give him money if he asked. Why? Because I never have to guess where he stands on an issue.

[molly]

60. Not slick?

http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml

snip....

Many people on the Vermont left see Dean’s current posture as politically motivated. "The notion that he is a liberal is ludicrous to those of us who worked with him in Vermont," said Terrill Bouricius, a former state representative.4 Dean admits that he recognized early on that the popular anger at Bush is "a raw energy, an energy that I know could be channeled."5

and

But such political maneuvering is nothing new for Dean. Upon becoming governor of Vermont in 1991, after the sudden death of then-Republican Governor Richard Snelling, Dean made a sharp turn to the right and pursued that course ever since. In his 11 years as governor, Dean would shift rightward on one position after another, all the while claiming to be concerned for the needy and less-fortunate, and disappointing all who thought they were getting someone who would govern from the liberal end of the political spectrum.

Dean inherited a massive deficit in the state budget from Snelling. Refusing to raise taxes on wealthier Vermonters (and rendering the tax system more regressive than previously), Dean declared in his first State of the State address that it would be his mission to balance the state budget with some "tough" cuts. Even though Vermont has no law requiring a balanced budget, Dean promised, "The pain for Vermonters will be real."7

Dean slashed millions of dollars from all sorts of social programs, from prescription drug benefits for Medicare recipients and heating assistance for poorer Vermonters to housing assistance funds. In defending his cuts to social programs, Dean said, "I don’t think I have to shy away from that just because I’m supposed to be a liberal Democrat."8

[Eloriel]

62. Ah, still hawking someone else's

lies about Dean, I see.

[madfloridian]

64. Most thought him fair,though centrist. An involved perspective from GWU

This is from an article in the GWU archives. Dean has been hard to label,and still is. This is a pretty fair look at a guy who is most definitely a fiscal conservative, but who gained the respect of both parties. Great picture here, too. No one thinks Dean is a liberal except in social areas.

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/dean/dean0702/deanmain.html

SNIP:.."Respect from Most Quarters
The middle of the road approach earns Dean outright praise from some and respect from most. At times he almost seems like a moderate Republican. In 1999 when the state was running heavy surpluses, Dean worked with Blue Dog Democrats to reduce the personal income tax. As a result, the rate went from 25 percent of federal income tax liability to 24 percent, and clothing costing under $110 was exempted from the sales tax. Organized labor seems happy with Dean too. Tom Belville, political director of the Vermont AFL-CIO assesses Dean's record thusly, "He's got a very good record as far as the Vermont AFL-CIO is concerned." "When push came to shove he'd always come down on our side on the very important issues, but we did have some occasional differences but they were very minor," Belville says. VSEA's Hooper states, "We have a good overall relationship with Gov. Dean. He does not always listen to us. He does not always ignore us."

Even the Progressives have a few kind words.

[NYCGirl]

65. Do you always look to the International Socialist Review to corroborate

your views?

(Subtitle: The Journal of Revolutionary Marxism).

According to that source, perhaps Kucinich would be seen as another Barry Goldwater!

[madfloridian]

66. Yes, the Socialist Review would have issues with Dean for sure.

Be sure you read my post just above yours. Great article, and pretty fair over all.

[AntiCoup2K4]

79. A DLC operative quoting the International Socialist Review?

Now I've seen everything :eyes:

[yellowdog]

61. Anything that could make the DLC

go away would be perfect for me. I am an old-line, very liberal Democrat and the DLC pisses me off so bad I can't see straight. To me if you want to shit on the poor and suck up to big corporations be a damned Republican and get it over with.

[mitchum]

63. That would be fantastic for Dean AND for us!

[BabsSong]

68. I think it would be a great move, but somehow I find it hard to

believe that the DNC and all those Dems in power who have one leg under the bedsheets with Bush and the republicans would ever dare let him have the job. The last thing they want is for the people to ever get charged up and demand real "liberal" change (I'm not saying Dean is liberal but he talks "liberal" and thus would either have to change his tune or produce "liberal" results). The other boys don't want that and want to be held to such "goals". Hell, we, as a party, have been yacking about abondoning Dems and going to the repukes to get a suitable running mate!!!---that's quite a departure from turning around and saying "let's make Dean the head of the DNC"!!! ...I'm waiting for someone to propose that McCain be put in as head of the DNC!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zolok]

73. Can't say I think he'd do well with the job...

too much unlovely drudgery.
But if Governor Dean would like to quit Vermont, move to Massachusetts and establish full residency before 2006 I've got a nasty freeper passive aggressive chronic masturbater Governor he could challenge.
:)

www.chimesatmidnight.blogspot.com