What Has Nader Accomplished? You Gotta Be Kiddin!

[Solidarity]

Oh .... Nader has accomplished just a few little tiny things in his life. But I'm sure John Kerry has been a real hot shot movement organizer, making Ralph Nader look like a rookie!

We can do a real match-up on that score. Here's Nader's minuscule record of building movements and organizations to promote and advance the interests of working people, consumers, the elderly, etc., Put Kerry's long record right underneath it. I'll start it, just add things .... make things up to make Kerry look good if you have too.

------------------------------------------------------------------

In his career as consumer advocate he founded many organizations including the Center for Study of Responsive Law, the Public Interest Research Group (PIRG), the Center for Auto Safety, Public Citizen, Clean Water Action Project, the Disability Rights Center, the Pension Rights Center, the Project for Corporate Responsibility and The Multinational Monitor (a monthly magazine).

Some organizations Ralph Nader founded or helped start:
American Antitrust Institute
Appleseed Foundation
Arizona Center for Law in the Public Interest
Aviation Consumer Action Project
Capitol Hill News Service
Center for Auto Safety
Center for Insurance Research
Center for Justice and Democracy
Center for Science in the Public Interest
Center for Study of Responsive Law
Center for Women Policy Studies
Citizen Advocacy Center
Citizen Utility Boards
Citizen Works
Clean Water Action Project
Congress Project
Connecticut Citizen Action Group
Corporate Accountability Research Group
Democracy Rising
Disability Rights Center
Equal Justice Foundation
Essential Information
FANS (Fight to Advance the Nation's Sports)
Foundation for Taxpayers and Consumer Rights
Freedom of Information Clearinghouse
Georgia Legal Watch
Multinational Monitor
National Citizen's Coalition for Nursing Home Reform
National Coalition for Universities in the Public Interest
National Insurance Consumer Organization
Ohio Public Interest Action Group
Organization for Competitive Markets
Pension Rights Center
Princeton Project 55
PROD - truck safety
Public Citizen
Buyers Up
Citizen Action Group
Critical Mass Energy Project
Congress Watch
Global Trade Watch
Health Research Group
Litigation Group
Tax Reform Research Group
The Visitor's Center
Retired Professionals Action Group
Shafeek Nader Trust for the Community Interest
Student Public Interest Research Groups nationwide
Telecommunications Research and Action Center
Trial Lawyers for Public Justice

Among the books Ralph Nader has helped produce are:

Unsafe at Any Speed
Action for a Change(with Donald Ross, Brett English, and Joseph Highland)
Whistle-Blowing (with Peter J. Petkas and Kate Blackwell)
Corporate Power in America (with Mark Green)
You and Your Pension (with Kate Blackwell)
The Consumer and Corporate Accountability
Corporate Power in America
Taming the Giant Corporation (with Mark Green and Joel Seligman)
Verdicts on Lawyers
The Menace of Atomic Energy (with John Abbotts)
The Lemon Book
Who's Poisoning America (with Ronald Brownstein and John Richard)
The Big Boys (with William Taylor)
Winning the Insurance Game (with Wesley Smith and J. Robert Hunter)
Canada Firsts
The Frugal Shopper (with Wesley Smith)
Collision Course (with Wesley Smith)
No Contest: Corporate Lawyers and Perversion of Justice in America (with Wesley Smith)
The Ralph Nader Reader
Cutting Corporate Welfare
Crashing the Party: Taking on the Corporate Government in an Age of
Surrender

---------------------------------------------------------------------

OK John Kerry's record in building progressive movements and organizations:

Vietnam Veterans Against the War

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Got an asbestos suit handy? *lol*

[Solidarity]

6. That's Funny!

That's funny and I understand you. But, I think Nader deserves a fair shake, his very real and important accomplishments should be recognized and the slander and hate campaign directed against Nader should be ended.

Some believe Nader's greatest accomplishment to date was his 2000 campaign for President when he gave nearly 3 million progressive voters the opportunity to vote their beliefs and against Bush and a Bush lite candidate.

[NoPasaran]

33. Ironically

I think Ralph was involved in getting that dangerous asbestos clothing off the market in the 1970s, wasn't he?

[NoPasaran]

2. Whew! He should take the rest of the year off

He deserves a vacation.

[mac56]

3. How any pro-union person can be for Nader is beyond belief.

Another example of "Chickens For Colonel Sanders".

http://www.realchange.org/nader.htm#antiunion

Ralph talks big about democracy and even unions. But when his own workers at one of his magazines, Multinational Monitor, got fed up with cruel working conditions and started agitating for a union of their own, Nader busted the union with all of the hardball techniques used by corporate owners across America. Workers at Public Citizen, another Nader group, also tried to form a union because of 60 to 80 hour work weeks, salaries that ranged from $13,000 down, and other difficult working conditions and were blocked by Nader, who remains unapologetic to this day.

Nader says "I don't think there is a role for unions in small nonprofit 'cause' organizations any more than ... within a monastery or within a union."

When ringleader Tim Shorrock filed the union recognition papers, Nader immediately transferred ownership in the Multinational Monitor to close friends who ran an organization ("Essential Information") that Nader had set up. When Shorrock showed up for work the next day, he had been fired, the locks were changed, and management called the police to charge him with theft (of his own work papers.) That charge was thrown out of court, but management fired the two supportive editors and sued the three of them for $1.2 million, agreeing to drop the intimidation suit only when they dropped their NLRB complaint. All of these action are straight from the hardball anti-union playbook, and Nader makes no apology.

According to Nader, "Public interest groups are like crusades…you can’t have work rules, or 9 to 5." Shorrock, with his "union ploy," became an "adversary" according to Nader. "Anything that is commercial, is unionizable," but small public interest organizations "would go broke in a month," Nader says, if they paid union wages, offered union benefits and operated according to standard work rules, such as the eight-hour day. Remember that Nader's well-funded organizations were amassing tons of extra money that Ralph has been playing the stock market with during all these events.

[jpgray]

9. Not to mention stock options in slave-labor corporations

This poster is not interested in these facts about Nader--he has made up his mind.

[Solidarity]

26. And Your Reliable Source Is Real Change!

Your source, RealChange, seems devoted to smearing and slandering ALL progressives and liberals who are running for office. Not a very credible and reliable source at all.

How about these gems regarding Dennis Kucinich taken from your "reliable source" RealChange?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

"After he was unceremoniously booted from office in his 1979 reelection fight, though, he drifted toward California and New Mexico, living for a while in his "dear friend" Shirley MacLaine's house, and began what he calls ""a journey into the poetry of my own life." Now, he has made quite a journey from scrappy poor kid to quixotic New Age lefty presidential candidate.

'Dennis Kucinich has spent his life fighting for the little guy -- and that little guy is Dennis.' -- David Martin, the Cleveland Scene

'There's no one in America who believes in Dennis Kucinich more than Dennis Kucinich. We used to say back here in Ohio, you've got to drive a stake through the guy's heart to get him out of it.' -- Tim Hagan, former Cuyahoga County Democratic President

Kucinich likes to portray himself as a progressive, but for him that takes a turn not seen in mainstream politics since Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown ran for president. While his website tries to paint him as a down to earth midwesterner with a page titled "Polka, Bowling and Kielbasa", Kucinich is certainly the only admitted Vegan in the race (that is, a vegetarian who won't consume any animal products at all, including milk and honey.) The only kielbasa he'll be eating is made of tofurkey.

The blue collar kid from Cleveland now supports creating a Department of Peace. "I have a holistic view of the world," he explains. "I see the world as interconnected and interdependent and that leaves no room for war." He is also friends with Shirley MacLaine, who is the godmother of his daughter.

Critics are quick to charge that Kucinich "led Cleveland into bankruptcy" as a young (31) mayor, called "Dennis the Menace" by the press, and his administration was certainly messy. One book recently named him as the 7th worst mayor of American history, not for any reasons of corruption or scandal, but due to his "abrasive, intemperate, and chaotic administration." He survived a recall vote after only ten months in office by 231 votes (out of 120,000) and was voted out after one term by Republican George Voinovich, even through Democrats outnumbered Republicans 8 to 1. When he threw out the first pitch at a Cleveland Indians game, he wore a bullet-proof vest and had sharpshooters positioned on the stadium roof.

Looking For Love
Like so many New Age devotees desperately searching for universal love, Kucinich lacks a steady love partner. The twice-divorced dad, however, not only admits it but went public with his search for a love connection during a debate in Manchester, New Hampshire, announcing his criteria for a first lady: "a dynamic, out-spoken woman who was fearless in her desire for peace in the world and for universal single-payer health care."

Flip Flop
While most politicians change their positions from time to time -- in fact, all good ones do, because they are learning and open to change -- Kucinich has made a dizzying switch on abortion with no apparent principle to back it up (other than, "I want to win some Democratic primaries.")

Now that he wants to run as a progressive Democrat though, he is waffling all over that stance.
When pressed, Kucinich said "I haven't been a leader on this. These are issues I would not have chosen to bring up." Well, he has been at least a devoted follower of the anti-abortion position, until it became politically inconvenient. And if he's not a leader, why should anyone elect him as president?"

--------------------------------------------------------------

So how did you like that little "hit" piece from your "reliable source" RealChange.org? I imagine you must use it among your not so "liberal" friends.

Now what's the truth about Ralph Nader and the union movement? He's been a consistent defender and supporter of organized labor.
And the entire AFL-CIO has recognized and honored his work on behalf of organized labor.

Want some proof to back up my statement? Just ask. I'll provide it! Christ, even the President of the Teamsters Union, James Hoffa, had to publicly recognize Nader's contributions to organized labor! Teamsters love Ralph Nader! If you tell Teamsters Nader is a right-wing union buster and they'll chase you out of their union halls! Well, they won't actually do that. They'll just laugh their asses off and try to find you a dunce cap to wear!

[mac56]

34. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What flavor is your Kool-Aid?

[Forkboy]

41. yeah yeah yeah

how about telling us what think of the piece mentioned?

[mac56]

45. The "piece" mentioned is irrelevant.

I cited an article from realchange that discussed Nader's apparent hypocracy regarding organized labor. You responded by smearing realchange (ironically, by claiming that they smear others!) and pasted in an example wherein they were less than fawning about Kucinich.

This discussion isn't about Kucinich. Or did you notice?

If you care to advance the discussion, give me your .02 about their Nader article.

[Solidarity]

28. And Nader Breaks Up Marriages!

And I really trust and like this gem from your reliable source for news and information.

"Nader often called workers after midnight or on sunny weekend days, with instructions, or just to test their willingness to work hard. When a revolt over working conditions broke out in the Congress Project and students demanded a group session with Nader, he contemptuously scheduled a meeting at 7:00 am, believing that few would show up.

9 marriages of staffers broke up under the pressure, including John and Nancy Esposito's, Mark Green's, Sid Wolfe's, and Davitt McAteer's."

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

39. as opposed to voting for a guy who backs NAFTA,GATT, MFN for china, WTO,

as kerry does?

nader is calling for the repeal of the regressive taft-hartley act that allows employers like wal-mart to persecute workers for unionizing.

i don't see mr kerry making any such proposal

[blm]

4. Kerry investigated & exposed more government corruption than any lawmaker

in modern history. In fact, Nader helped Kerry investigate IranContra when others in Congress wanted to drop it.

Nader and Kerry go back over 30 years.

Nader is helping Kerry right now. Some people (GOP operatives) just haven't figured that out yet and are still frantically trying to use Nader against Kerry. HAHAHHAHAHAHAH. Guess they'll have to find out the hard way.

[blm]

30. No reply?

You would think a Nader supporter would acknowledge a positive view of Nader and Kerry.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

5. Okay, how about a big dose of

who the fuck cares what Ralph Nader has done? :wtf:

None of it will mean jack shit if he causes another 4 years of Bush. All of his hard work will be completely annihilated by his own hand because he enabled the man who anthesizes everything those organizations stands for to not only become President, but remain President. Do you understand this?? Does HE understand this?!?!?

[Solidarity]

15. Excuse Me .... Who Enabled George Bush?

And who "enabled" George Bush to invade Iraq? John Kerry who voted for it or Nader who opposed it?

And who "enabled" George Bush to pass the Patriot Act? John Kerry who voted for it or Nader who opposed it.

And who "enabled" George Bush to pursue so-called free trade deals, John Kerry who voted for all them, or Ralph Nader who opposed all of them?

Want a few hundred more examples of Bush's Congressional enablers in action?

If your looking for Bush "enablers" you will find them in Congress .... many of them are self-described "liberal" Democrats who voted FOR Bushism while claiming to oppose it.

[sangh0]

17. Nadir enabled it all

.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

19. Your attack on Paul Wellstone is misguided.

To label Wellstone as 'enabling' Bush because he voted for the Patriot Act is misguided, counterproductive, and intellectually dishonest, imho.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

22. Excuse me? Lost a bit of perspective?

Who didn't have to face a recorded vote during days when anyone disagreeing with Bush was labeled "unpatriotic", which would've completely derailed ANY effort to remove him? Oh yeah, that was Nader. Perhaps you were living in a different country during those days or maybe you have amnesia, but I remember very clearly that those decisions Kerry made were during a time when he had absolutely no choice in the matter. It's very easy to speak your mind when your opinions have absolutely no consequence, and Ralph Nader's opinions haven't held much weight in a very long time. That's apparently a truth you seem to have missed completely.

On edit: I'll add this to continue the point. Had things turned out differently, and say a huge store of WMDs were found in Iraq, Democrats might STILL be in position to make a run at the White House in 2004 based on our current economic status. However, had we voted against Bush and WMDs turned up, we'd be facing minority status for a VERY long time over an issue we had absolutely no chance of winning on to begin with (Repugs had more than enough votes to get their way with or without us). How does option look good in ANY way, shape, or form???

[LoZoccolo]

35. And Nader didn't do all that...

...because he never had the power to do it.

Just like he can say he'll do anything if he's not getting elected and no one will be able to say he broke a campaign process.

[rasputin1952]

7. I don't think anyone will say that Nader has been a slouch all his life...

But, I can guarantee, Nader will NOT win the election.

I will venture to say as well, that EVERY vote for Nader, might well have gone to Kerry. Since I do not want to see the current administration in OUR WH any longer than absolutely necessary...I will say with conviction, that Nader, as a viable candidate is non-existant.

:)

[TexasSissy]

8. Nader should stay out of politics at this time. He is harming the country

His ego has gotten out of control, just like Bush's has. That's what happens when famous men start believing their own P.R.

Nader has done many good things in the area of consumer protection. He has not only done nothing good in the area of politics, he has done the country great harm. His refusal to drop out in 2000 when he saw he couldn't win, or even get a decent showing, went a long, long way to UNDOING all the good he had sought to do in the decades before.

The same is true for 2004. Is someone good when they do many good things, then turn over a leaf and start doing bad things which, in effect, undoes the good that had been done previously?

Nader is a godsend to Bush. That's the name of that tune.

[Oddman]

10. And his NUMBER ONE accomplishment . . .

getting bush ELECTED!!!! (err . . .selected!!!!)

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

40. no that would be clinton anf gore's

for selling out their base for 8 years straight and setting the stage for ralph to run

give credit where credit is due

[tandot]

11. You convinced me. I'll vote for Nader

nah, just kidding.

I asked you yesterday: What is the point?

I don't give a f*ck about Nader's accomplishments. I bet my a** that many DUers don't give a sh*t either.

You just go ahead and vote for Nader (or Bush). Whatever floats your boat. But don't come back whining about how Bush had FOUR more years to destroy the environment, start more wars, explode the deficit, draft your a**, built a theocracy, and destroy civil liberties.

[Solidarity]

20. Are You Nuts? I'm Not Voting For Bush

Sorry to disappoint you but I'm sure as hell not going to vote for George Bush. And if you've been reading my posts you know that I haven't been encouraging people to vote for Nader and sure as hell don't support Bush or his policies, including Bush actions that are supported by John Kerry.

Frankly, I haven't decided who I will vote for this year. Now you and others might try to use persuasive arguments to convince me and other potential Nader voters to support John Kerry instead.

My mind is open. I'll listen to reasoned arguments but won't pay much attention at all to personal attacks and slanders directed against Ralph Nader, Greens and others who dare express reservations about John Kerry and his policies.

[sangh0]

23. You'll listen to reasoned arguments? You mean like

"Are You Nuts?"

I'll listen to reasoned arguments but won't pay much attention at all to personal attacks and slanders directed against Ralph Nader, Greens and others who dare express reservations about John Kerry and his policies.

[tandot]

25. This is very simple: do your research, don't listen to anyone

else, make up your mind, vote.

Why do you want US to bring up arguments in support of Kerry? You know what is going on and the Internet gives you a wealth of information about each candidate. Kerry's record is open and free for you to look up, as is Bush's and Nader's.

Would you also listen to "reasoned arguments" from Bush supporters?

Nader might have some good arguments and policies. But it doesn't matter for me at this point of time. This is the future of America and the world we are talking about. And we all know that Nader has absolute no chance of becoming President. I guess for some people it is important to make a statement with their vote in support of stronger environmental protection and all the other good stuff Nader stands for. Nobody can tell you what do to. You know what the consequences will be - you'll have to live with that.

[ButterflyBlood]

12. Who cares?

all he does now is help the right wing.

[hippiegranny]

13. wow, I'm so impressed

I might actually vote for him. NOT.

add this to the list:

Aided George Bush's stealing of the presidency in 2000.
Trying to do it again in 2004.

No matter what else Nader has done or hasn't done, he has assisted George Bush in causing irrepairable harm to our country over the past four years and is doing his damnedest to repeat the offense. He has negated any good he has ever done with the blood on his hands of tens of thousands of human beings that have resulted in four years of Gee Duh-bya.

Sorry. Maybe you should start your own board for people who are buying into this.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. This is just a list of organizations. Where are the accomplishments?

Did Nader actually accomplish anything? What? Joining a bunch of organizations? Or are you trying to give Nader credit for what other people have done?

What has Nader actually accomplished in the last 25 years, besides destroying the credibility of the Green party and getting George Bush elected?

[sangh0]

18. Nadir has accomplished NOTHING

and even funnier, this thread was created in response to nsma's thread which asked what Nadir had accomplished since 1980. Instead of posting this in that thread, a new thread was created so the question could be changed in order to buff up Nadir's light resume

[mzmolly]

16. Yes, and he busted Unions too!!

Listen to a transcript of an excellent expose here. 12/10/2000

http://wfmu.org/playlists/DX

Click on: January 8, 2001: FTR 264 - "Darth Nader: Ralph Nader's Politics of Hypocrisy"

Or try this link: http://wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=1068

"Darth Nader: Ralph Nader’s Politics of Hypocrisy"

http://www.spitfirelist.com/f264.html

12. Program Highlights Include: Nader’s role in undermining airline and trucking workers in the 1970’s (“1.75 Cheers for Ralph” by Doug Henwood; Left Business Observer; 10/1996 <#74>.)

13. Nader’s fight to prevent unionization in a publication he founded (Idem.).

14. Nader’s alleged refusal to prevent publication of CIA/corporate collusion in his Multinational Monitor (Idem.).

15. Nader’s role in effectively neutralizing a bigger union drive at Public Citizen (Idem.).

16. Nader’s excessive secrecy about his own financial affairs (“How Nader Profits While He Preaches” by Jeff McMahon; bushwatch.net/nader.htm; 10/27/2000.).

17. A detailed list of the various corporations Nader invest in and (hypocritically) criticizes at the same time. (Idem.) (For more on the 2000 campaign, see also: FTR #’s 175, 181, 186, 214, 236, 244, 248, 249, 254, 255, 256, 258, 259.) (Recorded on 12/10/2000.)

http://realchange.org/nader.htm

A HUGE hypocrite:

Nader wraps himself in the mantle of "public interest" with a personally ascetic style and a focus on structural or "apple pie" issues -- consumer safety, corporate accountability, "citizen power" -- rather than traditional partisan issues. He opposes not conservatives, but arrogant corporate leaders who amass money through public tax breaks, deny any democratic input or inquiry, and viciously attack anyone who challenges them. It's a brilliant strategy.

Unfortunately, Nader has become exactly what he attacks. His organizations allow no public input, intimidate foes and journalists, bust unions, hide almost all details of their finances (to the point of breaking laws), and have amassed millions of dollars - all under Nader's direct and autocratic control. Meanwhile, Ralph has gotten rich off of investments in stock; in other words, by owning and profiting off the very corporations he is attacking.

And hey he also owns stock in Walmart! ;)

[Trajan]

21. You fergot his most famous accomplishment ...

Letting his ego cast a pall over the course of human events today ...

I love Nader, but he should have pulled out ...

He should pull out now ....

Fuck his ego ....

[Forkboy]

24. You're dealing with the equivalent of Hillary Haters here

I wouldn't get your hopes up that many will see past that endearing trait they possess :)

[mzmolly]

29. No, he's dealing with Democrats who see Ralph Nader as a political

opponent. :hi:

[Forkboy]

31. Some do,many more dont

If you're one of the ones that does then I salute you.

[FlemingsGhost]

27. Could you stop this nonsense, please?

These Nader flame wars are so 2001. I regret having spent yesterday afternoon contributing to it. My apologies to DU and its members for wasting precious bandwidth.

-------------
Bottom line:

Ralph Nader is not qualified to be President of the United States.

[Nlighten1]

32. *drool* *slobber* Nader *drool* *slobber*

Never mind all of those accomplishments, civic service, helping the working people, and all the other good things he has done! We have to protect our fragile sensibilities!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

36. And Nader's proudest accomplishment was helping Junior occupy...

...the White House, wasn't it?

You can't tell me that's not true because he publicly declared that his number one goal in the 2000 election was to ensure that Gore did not win. When asked late in the election process who he would vote for, Gore or Junior, Nader declared he would vote for Junior. And finally, GOP-backers paid for Nader commercials that ran in the northwestern states.

As they used to say in the military, "One aw-shit wipes out one hundred atta-boys".

[Zynx]

37. You know what? I don't care.

Past records do not justify current stupidity.

All those green bastards who would rather sacrifice the office to Bush than vote for a party they agree with 80% of the time have a huge reality gap and do not understand the political system. For the love of God, be pragmatic. We will never achieve this utopian political environment you seek and you just have to get used to that fact.

[voice of reason]

38. he got the Corvair off the road . . .

"Unsafe at any speed", but a cool looking car nevertheless.

v.o.r.

[LSK]

42. you forgot the most important one

He got Bush elected.

Hes working on Bush's re-election right now...

[mitchum]

43. OK, so he can get letterheads printed up...

Kinko's must love him nearly as much as you do

[hippiegranny]

44. Arizona Center for Law in the Public Interest

i just picked this one off the list because i happen to live in arizona. i went to their website to find out exactly what role nader had in founding or helping to start the organization and found no mention of him at all. where exactly did this list come from? if i wanted to list every single non-profit i ever helped in even the most cursory way, i could compile a big old list too. that doesn't mean i was instrumental in their foundation or their success.