Tenet did not resign

[Must_B_Free]

I think we are being naieve if we think he actually resigned.

ANyone who has been in a corp or two knows that people are told that they are resigning by their higher ups. Usually these people make the announcement themselves. Tenet's Boss was the one who told everyone.

I really wonder if they even told Tenet ahead of time or if he found out about his resignation on the news...

Anyway, Here are the themes I can brainstorm:

1. Symbolic fallguy to disctract from the bad news about Bush getting a private attourney.

2. He was in on the bad news coming out for Bush and they finally traced it to him and they are making sure they only have loyalists in the CIA.

3. I suspect they threatened to kill his whole family. That's how I translate the family line.

4. Possibly he wouldn't go along with 911 the sequel. It may have been necessary to get someone who would support a second attack on America to save Bush.

[Dookus]

1. or....

sometimes people DO resign from government. Nothing's a life-time commitment.

As to your other possibilities, I find them increasingly paranoid.

You really believe he has enough integrity to resign in face of the upcoming deliberate murder of tens of thousands of Americans, but not enough integrity to stop it?

[Must_B_Free]

3. your logic is slightly faulty

I said he did not resign, so that negates your last point.

[Dookus]

5. well...

he said he resigned. the President said he resigned. You've provided no evidence to the contrary beyond a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

It amazes me how the Bush cabal is SO evil, SO corrupt, SO willing to murder, but yet were too damned stupid to plant a few WMD's in iraq.

Edit: and too damned stupid to off Richard Clarke. Or too damned stupid to off Paul O'Neill. Or too damned stupid to off Joe Wilson. They'll kill thousands, or tens of thousands to advance their causes, but yet all their REAL enemies are allowed to live and publish books.

[Must_B_Free]

10. I'll respond to all of your points.

he said he resigned. the President said he resigned. You've provided no evidence to the contrary beyond a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

First of all - have you ever worked in corporations where high executives resigned? I have, and I know a little about resignation from these experiences. Resignation is a way to paint a pretty face on an ugly situation. And if its "to be with my family", you can be sure that is the cheesiest excuse there is. I'm not going to bother arguning this point beyond that - anyone who knows, knows what I'm saying.

Second of all, you can't just plant WMDs - that wouldn't work. They would have had to have the detained scientists mock up an entire operation. Bio and chemical agents have detectable signatures and shelf lives. It's not as simple as planting a few WMD. Remember that Anthrax? They knew by examination that it was from the stock at Ft. Deitrick.

Third: Too damn stupid to off Paul Wellstone? Too damn stupid to off Cliff Baxter? There's only so many people you can off - its not always the best solution for everything.

Besides, what you call a "ridiculous conspiracy theory" I clearly labled as Brainstorming. It's part of the process of thinking - perhaps you should try it sometime.

[Dookus]

13. I see

so I'm not "thinking" if I don't jump to the most extreme possible conclusion. That's nonsense, and it's a freeperish argument: You disagree with me, therefore you're not thinking.

Further, I don't believe they killed Wellstone. Planes DO crash. People DO die. Why, of all the people in the world, would they kill Wellstone? There's no evidence whatsoever that he was murdered. But then, many people believe Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster, even though there's no evidence for that. Both beliefs are driven by pure, blind, unthiking hatred.

[Must_B_Free]

17. So all you do is straw men huh?

so I'm not "thinking" if I don't jump to the most extreme possible conclusion.

You not "thinking" when you attack a mischaracterization of what I said, instead of what I actually said.

Why, of all the people in the world, would they kill Wellstone?

article from May 9, 2002
"Paul Wellstone is a hunted man. Minnesota's senior senator is not just another Democrat on White House political czar Karl Rove's target list, in an election year when the Senate balance of power could be decided by the voters of a single state. Rather, getting rid of Wellstone is a passion for Rove, Dick Cheney, George W. Bush and the special-interest lobbies that fund the most sophisticated political operation ever assembled by a presidential administration. 'There are people in the White House who wake up in the morning thinking about how they will defeat Paul Wellstone,' a senior Republican aide confides. 'This one is political and personal for them.'"

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020527&s=nichols

the crash that killed Paul and Sheila was on October 25, 2002

[Dookus]

18. sorry

that's not evidence. It's an article saying that the White House wanted Wellstone defeated.

I knew that. You knew that. They wanted every Democrat defeated.

Nothing in that article indicates they were willing to murder him.

Look... I hate Bush. But I don't believe every half-baked conspiracy that comes up simply because I don't like him. The other side did the SAME EXACT FUCKING THING to the Clintons. They killed Foster. They killed Ron Brown. They killed everybody who crossed them. But yet they never killed anybody who could REALLY hurt them. It's an unthinking reaction - just because you dislike somebody intensely doesn't mean they're responsible for everything bad that happens in the world.

I never believed the crap about the Clintons being murderers, and I see no evidence to convince me that the Bush's are guilty of murder, either. Unfortunately, that makes me less of a liberal in some people's eyes here, but I'm proud to wear that scorn.

Such unthinking, conspiratorial nonsense is a blot on our party.

[Must_B_Free]

20. You asked the question and you got the answer

Nothing in that article indicates they were willing to murder him.

I hardly think you were expecting a link to a Whitehouse press release announcing intentions to kill Paul Wellstone.

"Paul's a controversial guy. He's the little guy who takes on the big guys. That is not something the political process is designed to reward these days. If you take strong stands you put yourself at risk--and Paul takes more strong stands on more issues than just about anyone else."

Besides, my speculation was that Tenet was probably told he was resigning. Wellstone really didn't have much of anything to do with that.

[Cronus Protagonist]

23. Whoever it is you're arguing with must be smoking happy hay

Why wouldn't it go that way? Your boss says, "We'd like you to resign or we'll have to fire you." You choose one or the other. If you choose resignation, you get to choose the time date and place, if you choose firing they choose the time date and place. Looks like Tenet may have made a smart move from any angle.

Click here for "HERO KERRY ZERO BUSH", "VETERAN KERRY AWOL BUSH" and other fair and balanced yet stunning, insulting, shocking, funny buttons, magnets and stickers

[Dookus]

25. well...

then we don't really disagree on much. I think Tenet may have been asked to resign. That's the normal way to go for high-level officials.

My personal feeling is that he chose to leave. I don't have any more evidence to back that up, other than that he SAID that. I'm fully willing to believe he was asked to resign.

However, I feel that his resignation doesn't make Bush look very good.

You brought up Wellstone, not me.

[truthseeker1]

2. All of the above

and especially #s 3 & 4

[Dookus]

4. yes...

they threatened to kill the family of the Director of Central Intelligence AND he had enough honor to resign so he wouldn't be sitting at a desk while tens of thousands of Americans were murdered for political reasons.

And all to "wipe" the Bush-lawyer story of page B6 of the newspapers.

[Must_B_Free]

12. Straw men...

you are boxing against misunderstood or distorted characterizations of what I said.

[Virginian]

6. Does the Dir of CIA serve at the pleasure of the president?

If so, on his first day of work, doesnt' he sign an undated resignation?
When the president is ready for him to leave, he dates and accepts the resignation.

[Insider]

7. good points

i would have guessed:

-he announces in-house
--announced in media
---public comments by bush

but it was totally reversed.

[Dookus]

8. Why would you guess that?

In my experience, it is by far the most common method that the President announces the departure of a senior aide.

[Insider]

9. only if they're standing by

in my experience, i recall it the way i listed (by far?)

internal announcement to staff (a sign of respect, to avoid internal shock & dismay, etc)

press release

senior ceo/cdr/chief comments thanking -x- for service

[Must_B_Free]

14. Here are my citation, do you have any to support your point?

Richard Clarke announced that he submitted his resignation to President Bush in a memo to the
www.gcn.com/vol1_no1/daily-updates/21029-1.html

House budget director Mitchell Daniels announced his resignation on Tuesday, leaving President Bush to ...
www.coxnews.com/cox/news/National/story/2757

The US treasury secretary, Paul O'Neill, abruptly announced his resignation from President George Bush's administration today.
www.buzzle.com/editorials/text12-6-2002-31691.asp

Ari Fleischer, probably the least liked White House spokesman since the late Ron Ziegler, announced his resignation this ...
www.alternet.org/mediaculture/2003/05/000929.html

Christie Whitman, sometimes cast as a lone voice on Bush environmental matters, announced Wednesday she will soon step down as administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency. ... EPA administrator Christie Todd Whitman announces her resignation.
www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/21/whitman.resigns

[ObaMania]

31. Don't forget Karen Hughes

"I guess we're a little homesick," she said in a surprise announcement.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/04/23/politics/main506988.shtml

[Sannum]

11. This is going to be an interesting summer...

:nuke: :scared: :shrug:

These people are going to try anything to retain power. I am hardly a consparicy nut, but these people are pure evil. I might even say, that they have and will do more damage to the US from within, than any foreign terrorist could imagine.

[SarahB]

15. CNN this afternoon

He wants to spend time with his son looking at colleges this upcoming year. Sure. I believe that one.

I hope he at least writes a book. (And soon.)

[PurityOfEssence]

16. Still not convinced.

Doing something this drastic at this time to get a momentary distraction from something that'll get out anyway is a bit dubious to me. It's sort of like killing the family pet to cover up for coming home drunk.

Sure, it's handy to have it look like he was embarrassed by his ineptitude and just couldn't take it anymore, but destroying a revered leader of a faction that is actively involved in internecine war with you is bad thinking, even for these dunderheads. The intelligence community was so steadfast at not cooking books that a whole new entity had to be created in DoD; those same careerists aren't going to stand by and see the shadow of the guillotine creep ever closer. They can hear the tumbrel, and at some point, a modern Fouche will pipe up and take this little rattlebrained Robespierre down. I don't think even the thugs of this administration want open warfare with the Agency, and that's what something like this can precipitate.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's desperation on Junior's part that caused him to do it. Maybe these louts really do think they can bark orders and intimidate everyone back in line. I just don't think so, and with age, I listen to my instincts more.

Junior looked surprised by the move; I don't think it was just awkwardness at lying about a "resignation", I think it was betrayed, self-righteous fury, coupled with the knowledge that he had to defend and praise someone who had screwed him. That's what I saw playing across his face. He was panicky, vengeful and disgusted at having to respond.

These guys are not that good. Some of them are smart (Cheney, Rumsfeld) and some of them are somewhat more than mediocre (Rove), but as a whole, they're no great shakes, and they're winging it without the chops.

[Must_B_Free]

19. I'm not saying it's not speculation

But the news of Bush consulting a private lawyer came late last night and the Tenet resignation came before noon today.

These people are all about the spin cycle. They know the value of timing. Unless they are trying to hide something else, the bad news always comes on Friday afternoon so it is forgotten by Monday morning.

It couls be that Tenet did resign of his own accord. Here are some ideas along those lines:

Maybe he wanted to be out of the way before the real shit hit the fan. I don't think it will save him any blame.

Maybe he was a Bush team player, but never dreamed the Bushies would brazenly sink as low as they have, and he decided he's had enough.

[Arianrhod]

21. maybe it's not a cover-up, but a correlation

* hires a lawyer to defend himself as Tenet steps down. Pretty strong circumstantial evidence there.

Tenet is the only person who could fully exonerate *. But if he can't do that (because of nasty little facts that get in the way), the most politically expedient thing to do would have been to allow the senate report to come out (destroying Tenet's credibility), then ax Tenet for his incompetence. In this scenario, * not only looks innocent, but he looks decisive and strong, too.

This way all he looks is suspicious.

[Must_B_Free]

22. Interesting

Tenet must have known the axe was coming anyway.

Would he really resign early just to make Bush look more suspicious for a little while?

recent events have all been bad for Bush. Even "Old Faithful", terror warnings, fell flat on their face.

We have three things that involve Tenet possibly:
1. Failed 911 intel
2. Chalabi and secrets
3. Treasongate - Plame outing

Any, some, all of these could be factors in the resignation. All we can do is speculate the most plausible scenario with the help of creative ideas and critical evaluation of those, as Dookus is providing.

[Arianrhod]

32. "Would he really resign early?"

Depends on what game he's playing, I guess.

[FDRrocks]

24. It all doesn't really matter....

When it comes down to it, Tenet is being made out to be the patsy for the intelligence lies that led to the Iraq war. I do not respect Tenet, but I do not hold the CIA responsible for the false claims that started this unjust war. I blame the Bush Junta. All the evidence they provided fit thier agenda perfectly, and I don't believe in such perfect coincidences.

[Must_B_Free]

27. The whole thing is such a farce, really

A good portion of the Bush administration are signatories to the PNAC statement of principles and clearly they own published writings prove that they were dying to go into Iraq. They wrote an open letter published on their web site that demanded that Clinton attack Iraq in 1998.

So who the fuck do they think they are fooling anyway?

It's like Hitler saying "Oh the Holocaust wasn't my fault, Goebbels told me the Jews were bad, and that Mein Kampf thing doesn't count".

[Az]

26. More likely he saw the BFEE falling apart and knew jail was in the future

So he wants to spend what time he has left with his family. Either jail or the coming legal battles would destroy any chance for such time. Far more likely than death threats. Its easy to counter death threats. Simply announce to the public that you have been threatened.

[Andromeda]

28. Any one of those possibilities,

could be true -- or all of the above. He did say he was resigning out of concern for his family and he didn't elaborate.

[Tight_rope]

29. I smell Rove all over this!

Time: Person of the Week Karl Rove
Thursday, Nov. 07, 2002

The strategist behind Tuesday's GOP victory is also the man with the President's ear

snip~George W. Bush doesn't like to travel, and, by all accounts, he doesn't particularly like giving campaign speeches. But he did both until his throat was raw and his nerves frayed in the weeks leading up to Tuesday's elections. He did it because "Karl Rove" told him it was a good idea. And Tuesday night, voters across the country told the President that Rove was right.

snip~That kind of success is pretty much par for the course for Rove since he joined the Bush campaign in 2000. Rove is considered by both Democrats and Republicans to have one of the country's sharpest and most instinctive political minds. He has made plenty of enemies along his road to success; some say his personality, which is jovial at times, can turn nasty when he (or his candidate) is in trouble. "Others say he'll do just about anything to win".

more------------> http://www.time.com/time/pow/article/0,8599,388523,00.html

My take on this is that Rove told Bush to tell Tenet to resign. Let him be the scapegoat and take the fall for all the botched corruptions and scandals that went wrong. Bush can't even wipe his ass without the help of Rove!

Rove is a straight up street thug. Thugs like him "KNOW NO RULES"!. Rules don't exist in his book. :puke: :puke:

DON'T THEY KNOW GOD DON'T LIKE UGLY!!!:shrug:

Nothing good has come out of them "STEALING THE ELECTION"!

[JM]

30. Agreed...Consider the two following possibilities

1) Tenet was asked to resign shortly aafter the 9/11 hearings. BushRove held onto it until they could use the "resignation" for the best possible gain. When CBS led with 4 highly negative stories, Rove broke the glass on the little red box on his desk that contained Tenet's resignation.

2) With the DNC and RNC as prime targets for terror this summer, Tenet's departure shortly before both of them makes him the PERFECT scapegoat for anything that happens even after he left. This happens all the time. I defended a guy's work who was no longer with our company, and someone else had to defend me when the boss went a-blamin' after I had been laid off.

JM

[Malva Zebrina]

33. yes, and now the perfect scapegoat is available

Who knows what the Bush-Cheney tag team told the 9-11 panel? There was no record made and no oath taken. Perfect set up -- the whole thing, including using Condoleeza as the shill who was pretending she would not appear under oath.

Tenet caused everything. That will be it. They will have gotten away with murder, literally. The people will be reassured that their president,their saint, the leader of the Christian religion did the right thing--it was that Clinton appointment, Tenet, who caused the whole thing.

I have no idea why Tenet resigned when he did. I have not a clue and cannot even speculate. I will wait until more comes down within the next few weeks