High school student sues over ban of anti-gay T-shirt.

[tjwash]

Nothing like waking up to the morning news here in ultra-conservative San Diego, and seeing yet another "Christian", showing that Christ-like tolerance for other people we have all come to know and love so much.

Full story is here.

Excerpt:

"Tyler, who filed the suit on the Harper family's behalf, said Chase was given a one-day, in-school suspension for refusing to take off a T-shirt that stated "Homosexuality is Shameful" and referenced Romans 1:27 from the Bible."

and

"The following day, however, was a different story. Chase wore a similar shirt April 22 with the additional message "Be Ashamed" and "Our School Embraced What God Has Condemned." Chase said his teacher, David LeMaster, told him he was in violation of the school's dress code and had to remove the T-shirt or be sent to the office. Chase said he refused to take off the shirt and compromise his beliefs that homosexuality is wrong."

He references Romans 1:27 which goes

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet".

Personally I always thought that particular passage was more denigrating, and objectifying toward women than a condemnation of homosexual behavior, but what do I know, I'm not even religious...

[Cannikin]

1. Amen, Tjwash!

[wryter2000]

2. How delightful

Those people teaching their child to hate in Jesus' name. At least, the school is trying to do the right thing.

[bleedingedge]

23. Now, wait a second...

The school is trying to do the right thing by banning a t-shirt? Speech is speech is speech. The kid's a homophobe, sure, and I despise the fact that he's so zealous he's willing to essentially take his anger out publicly on those who disagree with him.

But this ain't a sling or an arrow. It's words, and thems protected. The better approach would be to wear a rebuttal t-shirt, not just for the gay students, but any student who finds this kid an intolerable idiot: "Hey dude, is that a log in your eye?"

If we, as liberals/progressives/wackadoos, want to stand-up for freedom, its got to be *all* freedom, not just our own. And it can't be on some "per case" basis, either. It's got to be absolute.

Just my two cents. I could be wrong.

[AntiCoup2K4]

24. What if the kid's shirt had said...

"Ni**ers are an inferior race"
or
"The Jews killed Christ"
or
"Beat your wife and kids into submission. God says it's OK"

Would that fall under "free speech" as well?

[bleedingedge]

26. Yeah, it would.

Call me crazy, but if there's a racist in my midst, I'd rather know about it than to go happily through my day thinking otherwise. "The devil you know..." I suppose.

Matter of fact, I went to school with a screaming racist. He could not shut up with the n***** jokes. He lasted four months. Black kids and white kids both despised him, ostracized him, drummed him out, chewed him up, spit him out. There's real value in braodcating the fact that you're a moron - it gives society fair warning.

Put simply, I don't want any institution to decide, for me or anybody else, what's "acceptable" and what's not. There's a clear danger to that that anybody should be able to recognize.

Let me put it another way. If a liberal student wore a shirt that said "Homophobes should be ashamed", would you be outraged if the school chose to suspend that student? I bet you would. So what makes this siutation different?

Is it that our anger is righteous? Or is it that our anger is directed at somebody else's anger? What's the difference? Do we simply prohibit students from expressing any viewpoint, just so nobody of any contrary perspective can be offended? At what age do we let the kids start expressing themselves?

Additionally, this kid probably harmed his cause more than helped it. It's like whenever you see a klan rally on TV, there's always some fat bald, pasty guy talking about white people being superior and maintaining the "purity" of the white race. Christ, everytime I see one of those, I think to myself "If that's the 'purified' form of my race, I'm glad my gene pool's got a little dirt in it." It's the same deal here. This kid's probably a complete loser and his opnion has only served to marginalize him even further than he was already - do you really think any student at that school saw his shirt and said "OH YEAH! That's right - fags are evil! I had completely forgotten!" I doubt it.

I said it before, I'll say it again. Free speech must be an absolute. That's my take and I have yet to be convinced otherwise. But I'm willing to listen to arguments to the contrary.

[NewJeffCT]

3. How about a few more t-shirts?

Promoting other things from the Bible, like slavery or other items (wearing two different types of fabric would go over well if they don't wear uniforms...and, probably even if they do, as a uniform could be a polyester / cotton blend)

[tjwash]

4. Or the dietary requirements from Leviticus.

nt

[zbdent]

5. Time to trot out that ole "conservative" tried-and-true concept

that the schools are no place for freedom of speech.

Always seems to be that way - "You can't have a class that teaches about sex! You can't talk about homosexuality in a non-condemning way! You cannot not say the Pledge of Allegience! You can't criticize the Republican President! yap yap yap!"

Uh, oh. One of their own got caught. FREEDOM OF SPEECH! FREEDOM OF SPEECH! FREEDOM OF SPEECH!

[Baltimoreboy]

7. Schools are for learning

T-shirts and speech that are disruptive can and should be silenced. This kid wore a T-shirt deliberately designed to piss off other students. If a liberal had worn the opposite shirt, he should have gotten the same response.

[tjwash]

9. The thing is...

...There are dress codes here in the schools for a reason. You can not wear "gang colors", because there have been kids getting shot over them. Likewise anything else that causes friction and division, is also against the dress code, and, your right, if a liberal had worn the opposite shirt, he would have gotten the same response.

[Baltimoreboy]

15. That's the way it SHOULD be

[zbdent]

10. Exactly. The conservatives would be screaming that the liberal kid

should be shutting up, not wearing disruptive clothing (remember the FCUK debacle?), and going on about the business of learning.

[zbdent]

11. by the way, you misquoted W: "Schools is for learning"

n/t

[tjwash]

8. Did you see the two Lawyers that jumped on the case?

Kenneth Dickson and Charles LiMandri, who are with the Alliance Defense Fund, which argued against same-sex marriages in San Francisco, defends and advocates for "religious freedom, the sanctity of human life and traditional family values."

[LittleApple81]

6. "The use of the woman..." that says it all about attitudes. n/t

[lazarus]

12. GOD HATES LOBSTERS!

It's true!

Leviticus
11: 9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

11:11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

11:12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

[lazarus]

13. GOD HATES AMERICA!

Leviticus 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray...

[tjwash]

14. God LOVES hand grenades...

A Reading from the Book of Armaments, Chapter 4, Verses 16 to 20:

Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals ... Now did the Lord say, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."

Sorry couldn't resist:silly:

[AntiCoup2K4]

25. Phelps agrees with you

www.godhatesamerica.com

[lazarus]

32. eww

That's just sick.

[cheezus]

16. So, let the bigot exercise his free speech rights

this is America

[tjwash]

19. According to the letters to the editor in the same paper...

...it is against the law to refer to anyone who hates homosexuals, or minorities, as a bigot. It is discrimination against white Christians.
/sarcasm

I like to refer to San Diego as "Americas finest city", however it has a seamy underbelly of this sort of behavior, and has always been a big red blot in an otherwise blue state. We have everything from stratified economic layers, to a completely corrupt political structure, that on one hand cut benefits to schools and low income families, and then with the other hand turned around and gave $36 million for the Chargers' ticket guarantee, $78 million for the expansion of the Qualcomm stadium we are still paying on, $299 million for the Padres ballpark also being paid for with bonds at a rate of about $15 million per year, and $95 million for the judgment awarded to Roque de la Fuente II.

Anyway, just thought the rest of the world should know, we are not all the laid back surfer types you think we are out here...

[noiretextatique]

31. isn't tom metzger down there in fallbrook?

forget the name of his group...is it aryan nations? i think he was involved with the KKK a one point too.

[David__77]

17. I'm conflicted on this.

There must be a uniform standard, don't you think? It's clear that if racist messages are silenced, then so should anti-gay messages. But the question is: should these messages be silenced in schools? We do not silence pro-gay messages in California, nor should we. I tend to believe that the students should themselves work through these issues and criticize the backward.

[David__77]

18. By the way... he looks a bit faggy to me.

I can say that since I'm gay!

[ronnykmarshall]

30. Not with THAT hair!

I saw the clip of him this morning and he comes off as a smug pompus little asshole.

[stanwyck]

21. I'm inclined to agree

plus I like the photo you have posted.
Let the kids work it out. They'll be much harder on this lost soul than the administration. I predict just one girl could end this very quickly. I've seen it happen. She'll criticize him for wearing the T-Shirt and, faster than Janet Jackson, that shirt will be off and he'll be in trouble for going bare-chested. I've seen hardcore wingers turned to mush by the opposite sex. This is his cry for attention. He's lonely.

[tjwash]

22. Not gonna happen.

We have problems with our schools here with students shooting each other over the color of a ball cap they are wearing. You see what has happened here, is what would have normally been something worked out between the parents and the principals office, has been seized by these two lawyers(both of which argued against same-sex marriages in San Francisco), for their own cheap publicity.

[FizzFuzz]

20. that was my first thought too

when I read the bible passage you quoted

your quote:<<Personally I always thought that particular passage was more denigrating, and objectifying toward women than a condemnation of homosexual behavior, but what do I know, I'm not even religious...>>

yechh.
Right up there with "I thank god I was not born a woman." HOrseshit. Sure am glad I never read the bible. It could have seriously warped me. (on edit here, I think that quote is part of daily orthodox Jewish prayers, not necessarily part of the Old Testament. ??)

I gotta find Elizabeth Cady Stanton's "The Woman's Bible" and post some of that, when I have a chance.

[devilgrrl]

27. Maybe if that kid would just come out of the closet...

he wouldn't find a need to wear such a shirt. :shrug:

[Bake]

28. My son has a GREAT t-shirt:

Picture of Smirk, captioned "Fuck Bush and his Daddy Too."

I won't let him wear it to school, but I don't mind him wearing it any other time, whether I'm with him or not.

Bake

[ronnykmarshall]

29. Saw that this AM too.

Snotty ass looking little shit.