Will BushCo tame Iraq?

[Disturbed]

I keep wondering: Will BushCo will be able to tame the insurgency
to a point where there are very few Occupation troops being killed &/or wounded? It seems that deals are being made to subdue the country, at least to a point where BushCo can announce that Iraq is a sovereign country. Of course with the edicts imposed by Bremmer, it won't be an actual sovereign nation, even after they have their actual elections but to most Americans that only listen to TV it will seem so.

IMO it could be a victory for BushCo since the economy seems to be on the rebound, even though 1,2000,000 jobs will have still been lost. It will seem so to most Americans. That will take the two main issues away from the Dems, would it not? Unless a scandal such as Prison Torture and Killings or the CIA Agent Outing hits hard, which is possible but not probable.

[LittleApple81]

1. It takes two to tango. And the counterpart in the taming does not

seem to want to be tamed.
There is a lot of "regular" crime in Iraq. I don't think they will have the time to train and retain Iraqi police forces to stop the kidnappings, rapes, thefts, etc. that are occurring now (I have read reports of the doctors, intellectuals, and other indispensable Iraqis leaving the country after thugs have kidnapped them or their families).
This is besides all the insurgents and assorted "interest" groups that are roaming the country with leftover arms.

[Disturbed]

3. Iraqis

Don't mean to seem cold but I don't feel that most Americans care a whole lot about crime if it mainly effects Iraqis. If there are very few Americans being killed &/or maimed in Iraq there won't be m,uch TV coverage, just as there is scant coverage of Afghanistan war that has been going on for over two years. Out of sight out of mind is a victory for BushCo to most Americans.

Al Sistani, the main influential non-official leader of the Shi'ites is going along with BushCo for the time being. If BushCo can hold down the violence against the Occupation close to the election here in the US, that issue could be nuetered. The question is: Can this be accomplished?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Disturbed]

4. HAHAHA

That is quite amusing. I am in the Green Party. I am putting forth possibilities. Look, the majority of Americans go by sound bytes of the TV propaganda,not reality.

[I thought so.]

8. Has the greenparty...

ever won any election,anywhere? Your pining for disaster is really UN-American. Oh,such a beautiful loser. If a green ever had to actually do anything I might be interested. Until then your pathos is unwelcome with me.

[Disturbed]

9. Green Party -"ever won any election,anywhere?"

Yes.

Does that have much to do with my question?

[teryang]

5. Americans will never "tame" Iraq

I read this morning that six Americans soldiers have been killed in the last couple of days. This will go on as long as we are there.

Discussion of "sovereignty" is Anglo-American propaganda. While almost 160,000 American soldiers and mercenary forces are in the country nominally operated by our hand picked crew of quislings the use of the term is a massive deception. These forces cannot possibly tame the country because they are not Iraqis. They have no political legitimacy nor nationalist standing.

Those who oppose American presence will ultimately rule the country. This is the history of anti-colonialist insurgencies.

Let's pretend America isn't going through an oil shock.

[Disturbed]

6. Quislings

" the country nominally operated by our hand picked crew of quislings the use of the term is a massive deception."

I agree with the above statement 100% and I stated this in my reference to the edicts from Bremer. My initial commentary and question is directed more toward the Americans that aren't very politicaly attuned, perhaps the swing voters. Perceptions, expecially from TV and Radio Media, are often taken as reality by quite a few people.

[teryang]

13. Right, if you were to rely on tv and radio

...you would completely miss the pattern and significance of the daily litany of bombings and killings unless you were an independent minded observer with some expertise, however derived, on such foreign policy efforts. Such expertise could be attained just by the sensitivity of having a friend or loved one in Iraq, knowing something about Arab history and culture, or having observed the ruthless foreign operations of this crew in Washington before. The psychology of denial resting upon ignorance, xenophobia, chauvinism and intolerance, promotes receptiveness to the propaganda of imperial agression.

Some are of the impression that is only our active duty troop casualties that are significant. While these are also minimized by the information techniques and media restrictions of the Pentagon and the mainstream press, the wholesale killing of Iraqis every day goes virtually unnoticed, as if it were a matter of indifference. Policy experts and think tank wonks completely ignore the political significance of these events. The green zone or its environs is attacked almost every day.

I had a similar experience after I read books about Vietnam and then watched television in sixties. The schism between reality and public relations is even greater now.

[VOX]

7. The U.S. is "riding the tiger" with Iraq: it was dumb enough to get aboard

It hasn't been pretty staying on, and now, dismounting isn't an easy prospect, either.

The U.S. was screwed -- globally -- the moment it flipped off the rest of the world and went into Iraq. Getting out won't be so easy.

"Tame Iraq?" Saddam was ousted, but a hell of a vacuum was created in the process, and now many warring factions will attempt to fill that vacuum. And the harder the * administration leans on Iraq, the more its people will fight back against unwanted Western influence.

Our very presence there is an abomination to the regional culture.

[Disturbed]

10. FYI

Green Party members holding elected office in the United States:

At least 203 Greens in 27 states

hold elected office as of May 2004

U.S. Green electoral history, 1985-present

California (65)

Matt Gonzalez, President, Board of Supervisors, District 5, City/County of San Francisco
Larry Barnett, City Council, Sonoma (Sonoma County)
Larry Bragman, City Council, Fairfax (Marin County)
Bruce Delgado, City Council, Marina (Monterey County)
Alan Drusys, Mayor Pro-Tempore, Yucaipa (San Bernadino County)
Mike Feinstein, City Council, Santa Monica (Los Angeles County)
Tim Fitzmaurice, City Council, Santa Cruz, (Santa Cruz County)
Mike Harrington, City Council, Davis (Yolo County)
Beth Ingalls, City Council, Truckee (Nevada County)
Craig Litwin, Mayor, Sebastopol (Sonoma County)
Kevin McKeown, Mayor Pro-Tempore, Santa Monica (Los Angeles County)
Dave Meserve, City Council, Arcata (Humboldt)
Christene Mulholland, Vice-Mayor, San Luis Obispo (San Luis Obispo County)
Landon Neustadt, City Council, Buelton (Santa Barbara)
Bob Ornelas, Mayor, Arcata (Humboldt County)
Larry Robinson, City Council, Sebastopol (Sonoma County)
Phil Rockey, City Council, Oakdale (Stanislaus County)
Mark Shoup, City Council, Apple Valley (San Bernadino County)
Lauren Sinott, City Council, Point Arena, (Mendocino County)
Sam Spooner, City Councnil , Sebastopol (Sonoma County)
Dona Spring, City Council, Berkeley (Alameda County)
Lew Tremaine, Vice-Mayor, Fairfax (Marin County)
Karl Warkomski, City Council, Aliso Viejo (Orange County)
Sarah Lipson, Board of Education, City/County of San Francisco
Marc Sanchez, Board of Education,City/County of San Francisco
John Selawsky, School Board, Berkeley (Alameda County)
Tim Willis, School Board, Santa Cruz (Santa Cruz)
Jim Smith, President, Canyon School Board, Canyon Township (Contra Costa County)
Cynthia Strecker, Monte Rio Union School District, Board of Trustees (Sonoma County)
Bill (William) Meyers, President, School Board, Point Arena (Mendocino County)
Jose Octavio Rivas, School Board, Lennox (Los Angeles County)
Gene Meyers, School Board, Chicago Park (Nevada County)
Cindy Foxfoot, School Board, Twin Ridges Elementary (Nevada County)
DeOnne Noel, School Board, Twin Ridges Elementary (Nevada County)
Sandra Ventura Scott, School Board, Twin Ridges Elementary (Nevada)
Paul Franklin, School Board, Live Oak School District (Santa Cruz)
Wendy Corlis, School Board, Live Oak School District (Santa Cruz)
Rod Jones, School Board, Mendocino Unified School District (Mendocino County)
Heidi Silva, School Board, Whitmore Union School District (Shasta County)
Jeff Sklar, Rent Control Board, Santa Monica (Los Angeles County)
Selma Spector, Rent Stabilization Board, Berkeley (Alameda County)
Chris Kavanagh, Rent Stabilization Board, Berkeley (Alameda County)
Howard Chong, Rent Stabilization Board, Berkeley (Alameda County)
Rebecca Kaplan, Transit Board (Alameda County)
Cameron Miller, Water Conservation District Board, Santa Maria Valley (Santa Barbara)
P. Shawn McGraw, Granada Sanitary District (San Mateo County)
Matthew Clark, Granada Sanitary District (San Mateo County)
Paul Perkovic, Montara Water & Sanitary District (San Mateo County)
Jim Harvey, Montara Water & Sanitary District (San Mateo County)
Roberto G. Garcia, Fire District, Penn Valley (Nevada County)
William Bretz, Crest/Dehesa/Harrison Canyon/Granite Hill Planning Group (San Diego County)
Kathy Wronski, Park & Recreation District, Bear River (Nevada County)
Sharon L. (Wert) Barbour, Park & Recreation Districtt, Boulder Creek (Santa Cruz County)
Robert Kerekes, Town Council, Antelope Acres (Los Angeles County)
Rocky Neptun, City Heights Planning Group (San Diego County)
Jay Evarts, Julian Planning Group (San Diego County)
Kip Krueger, Ocean Beach Planning Group (San Diego County)
Doug Zilm, Ocean Beach Planning Group (San Diego County)
Sara Bassler, Midcoast Community Council (San Mateo County)
Paul Perkovic, Midcoast Community Council (San Mateo County)
Sheila Bernard, Grassroots Venice Neighborhood Council, Venice (Los Angeles County)
Sabrina Venskus, Grassroots Venice Neighborhood Council, Venice (Los Angeles County)
George C. Nelson, Director, Community Service Area, Edgemont (Riverside County)
Nicole Vigeant, Community Services District, Tomales Village (Marin County)
James Lamport, Southern Humboldt Hospital District Board (Humboldt County)



Colorado (9)

Art Goodtimes, Board of Commissioners (San Miguel County)
Scott Chaplin, Board of Trustees, Carbondale
Jeffery Bergeron, Town Council, Breckenridge (Summit County)
John Fox-Rubin, Town Council, Basalt
David Grant Long, Town Council, Cortez
Robert Kelly-Goss, Town Council, Minturn (Eagle County)
Wendy Mimiaga, Town Board, Dolores (Cortez County)
Hillary White, Town Council, Telluride (San Miguel County)
Richard Hamilton, Park and Recreation District, Title 32 - Special District, South Park


Connecticut (4)

Elizabeth Horton-Sheff, City Council, Hartford
Joyce Chen, Alder, Ward 2, New Haven
Ken Keskinen, Selectman, Cornwall
Juan Perez, Selectman, Wilmantic Service District, Windham


Florida (2)

Charles Baron, Community Commission, Aventura
Nadine Burns, City Commission, District 3, Lake Worth



Hawai'i (1)

Bob Jacobson, County Council, District 6, Island of Hawai'i



Idaho (2)

Larry Baggett, School Board, Lake Pend Oreille School District, Sand Point
Selene Hall, School Board, Zone 3, Plummer/Worley School District (Benewah County)



Iowa (3)

Tim Harthan, City Council, Emmetsburg
Eric Kinman, City Council, Windsor Heights
Kevin Lee, Town Trustee, Decorah (Winneshiek County)


Kansas (1)

Kent Rowe, Mayor, Langton


Maine (9)

John Eder, State House, District 31
Jane Scease, Select Board, Topsham
Charlie Wiggins, Select Board, Sedgwick
Jerry Hoag, Select Board, Beaver Cove
Erek Gaines, Water District, Portland
Antonio Blasi, Planning Board, Hancock
Ben Meikeljohn, School Committee At-Large, Portland
Stephen Spring, School Committee, District 2, Portland
Jo Josephson, School Board, Temple



Maryland (1)

Michael Cornell, Board of Directors, River Hill Village (Howard County)


Massachusetts (19)

Chuck Turner, City Council, District 7, Boston
Alan R. Cohen, Town Meeting Seat, North Attleborough
David Ahlfeld, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Michael Chesworth, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Miriam Dayton, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Tom Flittie, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Frank Gatti, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Christopher Holme, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Emily Lewis, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Vincent O'Connor, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Michael Sherrard, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
John Wade, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Brent Was, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Jon Romano, Town Meeting Member, Precinct 13, Plymouth
Nat Fortune, School Committee, Whately Elementary. Whately
Bruce Menin, School Committee, Newburyport
Howard Hayward, Water Board of Health, West Bridgeport
George D. Bryant, Barnstable County Provincetown Delegate to County Assembly
Judy Gates, Library Trustee, Marblehead



Michigan (5)

Jim Moreno, City Council, Mount Pleasant
Don Cooney, City Commissioner, Kalamazoo
David Juarez, City Commissioner, Kalamazoo
JoAnne Bier-Beemon, Drain Commissioner (Charlevoix County)
Melissa Hohausher-Thatcher, School Board, Ferndale and Pleasant Ridge (Oakland County)



Minnesota (8)

Natalie Johnson Lee, City Council, Ward 5, Minneapolis (Hennepin County)
Dean Zimmerman, City Council, Ward 6, Minneapolis (Hennepin County)
Russ Stewart, City Council, District 3, Duluth (Superior County)
David Abazs, Crystal Bay Township Supervisor, Finland
Annie Young, Parks & Recreation Board, Minneapolis (Hennepin County)
Vic Ormsby, Wiscoy Soil & Water Supervisor (Winona County)
Dwayne Voegeli, County Commission, District 2 (Winona County)
Elaine Fleming, Mayor, Cass Lake (Cass County)


Nebraska (1)

Steve Larrick, Lower Platte 5, Natural Resources District, Lincoln


New Jersey (2)

James Morrison, Borough Council, Califon
Gary Novosielski, School Board, Rutherford


New Mexico (2)

Fran Gallegos, Municipal Judge, Santa Fe
Gary Clauss, City Council, Silver City


New York (5)

Jason West, Mayor, Village of New Paltz
Rebecca Rotzler, Board of Trustees, Village of New Paltz
Julia Walsh, Board of Trustees, Village of New Paltz
Steve Krulick, Board of Trustees, Village of Ellenville (Ulster County)
Rome Celli, School Board, Brighton (Monroe County)


North Carolina (1)

Gray Newman, Chair, Soil & Water District Commissioner (Mecklenburg)


Oregon (8)

Neil Friedman, City Council, West Fir
George Grosch, Ward 3, City Council, Corvalis
Wendy Siporen, City Council, Talent (Jackson County)
Alexander (Xander) Patterson, East Soil and Water Director, Portland
Lisa Melyan, Boardmember, Tualatin Valley Water District (Washington County)
John Jones, Board Member, Bridge Rural Fire Protection District (Coos County)
John Jones, Board Member, Myrtle Point Health District (Coos County)
Diane Amarotico, Parks Commission, Ashland (Jackson County)


Pennsylvania (26)

Arthur R. Palumbo, Mayor, Windber Borough (Somerset County)
Robert Cogan, Borough Council, Edinboro Borough (Erie County)
Catherine Scheib, Borough Council, Ward 1, Lewisburg Borough (Union County)
Thomas Davidock, Borough Council, Port Clinton Borough (Schuylkill County)
Michael O'Malley, Borough Council, Sinking Spring Borough (Berks County)
Kerry Nee, Borough Council, Sinking Spring Borough (Berks County)
Aaron C. Tedjeske, Borough Council, Windber Borough (Somerset County)
Joel Mount, Borough Council, Yardley Borough (Bucks County)
Michael Zowniriw, Supervisor, Richland Township (Bucks County)
Colleen Bogner, Director, Selinsgrove Area School District (Snyder County)
Nicholas Seigert, Constable, Ward 1, Lancaster (Lancaster County)
Nicholas Seigert, Constable, Ward 5, Lancaster (Lancaster County)
Bill Smedley, Constable, Nippenose Township (Lycoming County)
Michael Helfrich, Judge of Elections (York County)
Frank Divonzo, Auditor, Paxtang Borough (Dauphin County)
Kathleen Edwards, Auditor, Centre Township (Berks County)
Mary Lou Alsentzer, Auditor, Codorus Township (York County)
David Brooks, Auditor, Conestoga Township (Lancaster County)
Kurt Reichenbach, Auditor, East Buffalo Township (Union County)
Dean Hornberger, Auditor, Exeter Township (Berks County)
Mike Korsak, Auditor, Franklin Township, Chester County
April Sullivan, Auditor, Hellam Township (York County)
Edward Gately, Auditor, Manheim Township (York County)
John Irwin, Auditor, Martic Township (Lancaster County)
Ben Price, Auditor, North Middleton Township (Cumberland County)
Phil Getty, Auditor, Solebury Township (Bucks County)


Rhode Island (1)

David Segal, City Council, Ward 1, Providence


Texas (1)

George Rice, Water Board (Bexar County)



Virginia (3)

Phil Hyre, Natural Bridge Soil & Water Conservation District Board, Lexington
S. Ann Robinson, Soil & Water District Commissioner, Loudon
Greg Allen, Soil & Water Director, Virginia Dare District


Washington (4)

Steve Hotchkiss, City Council, Duvall (King County)
Sally Soriano, Director, District 1, School Board, Seattle
James Alfred Smith, School Board, Lopez Island, School #144, Director #2 (San Juan County)
Tim White, Cemetery District, Orcas Island (San Juan County)


Wisconsin (19)

John Hardin, Board of Supervisors, District 1 (Barron County)
Echnaton Vedder, Board of Supervisors, District 8 (Dane County)
Kyle Richmond, Board of Supervisors District 27 (Dane County)
Bob Browne, Board of Supervisors, District 20 (Douglas County)
David Conley, Board of Supervisors, District 5 (Douglas County)
Kathryn MacKenzie, Board of Supervisors, District 2 (Douglas County)
Greg David, Board of Supervisors, District 3 (Jefferson County)
Taniya Fatticci, Board of Supervisors, District 11 (Portage County)
Phillip Peterson, Board of Supervisors, District 1 (Portage County)
Kevin Ruehl, Board of Supervisors, District 4 (Portage County)
David Machotka, Board of Supervisors, District 16 (Winnebago County)
Don Richards, Common Council, Milwaukee, District 9 (Milwaukee County)
Brenda Konkel, Common Council, Madison, District 2 (Dane County)
Austin King, Common Council, Madison, District 8 (Dane County)
Brian Benford, Common Council, Madison, District 12 (Dane County)
Pete Karas, Common Council, Racine, District 9
Larry Harding , Town Supervisor, Somers, District 4 (Kenosha)
Shwaw Vang, School Board, Seat 3, Madison (Dane County)
Scott Tice, President, School Board, Cumberland


Wyoming (1)

Amy Moon, City Council, Laramie

[Malva Zebrina]

11. Maybe not, but we will not hear much news about it

just as we do not hear much news about Afganistan.

A headline on the Yahoo news, as I logged on today says: Bush senses "unity" on Iraq. Dear heavens, god goddess Plato or anything--he has done it, I thought. Over these months he lied and lied to invade a country that had NOTHING with which to defend itself. In the name of the United States of America , thousands were murdered--850 troops were murdered--and he has succeeded in glossing over it all and reinventing what he, in his evil, had done.

We, those of us who protested because we knew it was just plain wrong, were expected to support the troops and incredibly not the invasion,a if all the killing was done by invisible beings-- just the troops see, because we carried a collective guilt of some sort that the right wingers stirred up that we dirty "liberals" spit on the Vietnam troops,so we saw to it that we engaged in a logical inconsistency in order to not hurt people's feelings-- and we saw troops engaged in egregious, immoral acts--children's lives snuffed out--blood, bombing and brutality everywhere. We heard of horrors. We heard hubris from our political represesntatives. We heard obfuscation of the fact that a man who will run to be the next president of the fact that he approved of whatever a madman would do by giving him the vote. We see the lying continue over and over, the reasons given by a delusional little cowardly man, changing with the weather.

and now, we see attempts at saving ourselves from facing the fact that we murdered thousands and stole all of their good stuff, by the added hubris that as long as it is done, we may as well make the best of our barbaric and brutal occupation. So ,we see a slippery slope, a rubber stamping and approval of the fourteen military bases that are being built, and all the other things that we will do following and that are looming over the heads of the conquored people as proof of their lower status and their colonization. We now see intelligent people rationalizing this slaughter with that rubric.

I am so saddened this morning by that headline. He, the madman, will get away with it, it seems to me. He has so far and we will continue to do so. He has the bully pulpit, owns it and runs it by fear and threats to those who criticize and he sees to it that only he has the access to the headlines and the photos that appear on page one. He has manufactured a president and a presidency, an evil presidency, from the get go and Americans will never wake up, as some plead for them to do so.

Americans WANT bread and circuses. They are USED to their reality being described in shallow PR advertising words and visuals. It is a security to their world to be constantly stimulated by it. Without it they are restless and bored. Get ants in their pants, so we give drugs to little kids and place a medical sounding diagnosis that never existed before, on their reaction to boredom, and send them to school with their pills in their pocket. The little kids are also untowardly fat and we deny it is anyone's fault but the fault of food manufacturers and other convenient scapegoats to gluttony. This is the future "America" that will be "the troops" in the future that will be the conquorers of little defenseless countries in the future under the great American Empire.

Americans WANT even DEMAND to see a dumb wife of a dumb president, holding hands with the Pope, showing a look of severe anguish on her face,instead of a heartfelt smile of a woman enjoying the visit with a highly respected spiritual leader. She or someone in her PR camp, invented a faux, almost ominous, seriousness to the situation that demands she adopt this "face" and affect, as if she is tortuously, bound up and constipated.

[Disturbed]

12. As I stated: Perception

I consider myself fairly well informed. I read books that pertain to American and world politics and read a lot of articles on the Net. I have been around for quite a few years and have experienced the Nixon years on. I will vote for J. Kerry because any more years of the Neo Fascists will devistate America more than has been done. I believe that the USA is a Plutocracy and that J. Kerry Admin. won't be the huge change that most people expect but it is the only alternative to sanity.

I am worried though that BushCo just might pull off the grand deception.