We must not be enemies.

[Liberal Veteran]

We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. ---Abraham Lincoln


I mourn the death of civility and decorum.

[Qanisqineq]

1. I'm with you there

[Rowdyboy]

2. Respect, appropriate behavior, class are all things of the past, my friend

Newt Gingrich and the crop of cultural conservatives that came into power with Bush I destoyed the few remaining shreds of civility that united the parties.

In the 1960's people could disagree vociferously without hating one another. Right up until 1994, in some respects. Since then, its been downhill.

Its America's loss.

[Liberal Veteran]

3. While I realize that....it strikes me that if we stoop to that level,

...then we perpetuate the downward spiral our country is in.

I think as democrats, we can do better.

[trumad]

4. affection?

:shrug:

[La Resistance]

16. if only our opponent played by those rules

it's hard to support taking the higher ground when we aren't getting the results that our opponent has gained through playing dirty. It's a tough choice as to whether to stand on our principles or get down and dirty to win. It's a choice I think many are unwilling to face. I'm afraid that standing on principle will not get us the results we are seeking and we will be forced to get in the shit with the Republicans. I don't necessarily advocate that stance at this point, but I tghink we may have to head in that direction in order to get back in power.

[Liberal Veteran]

18. I don't think there is anything to be gained in this one....

...except egg on our faces.

The other side has also been successful because they know how to choose their battles wisely.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

29. Nah the other side has been successful

because they have played to the WORST in people, not because they choose their battles wisely. Just look at the gay marriage issue...they started pushing HARD just as more and more Americans are saying "hey we don't care, let 'em get married!". Not exactly choosing your battles wisely.

[FleshCartoon]

5. There's a difference between...

...being respectful and acknowledging the loss of a human life who was, whether for good or bad, relevant to history and crowing over his death.

But to revise history in order to make him a better president than he was is ludicrous.

I don't know how many women I've known who've buried husbands who were neglectful at best or out-right assholes at worst--and I've sat there during wakes while they tell anyone who comes by what a loving and generous husband he was. I'm from the South, and I've noticed that the older women here are particularly bad to do this.

Be respectful, but keep perspective.

In defense of many who are concerned about the upcoming election, myself included, I don't think we can help but wonder and ponder the impact this death might have on the outcome of the election.

[Liberal Veteran]

8. Decorum and civility doesn't cost anything.

There is a time and place for everything, but let's not lower ourselves to the level of our opposition.

[FleshCartoon]

14. I don't believe that's what I'm doing.

I acknowledge that Reagan has his place in history and I didn't wish death on him, nor his disease.

But I will not put him on a pedestal now just because he's dead. I don't think that's lowering myself. I think it's being true to myself.

Who knows what Hunter Thompson will do with this, though.

[Liberal Veteran]

15. It the time to rail against "he who must not be named" today?

That's all I am saying.

[Liberal Veteran]

17. Is respectful silence the same as praise or putting on a pedestal?

Not really.

[FleshCartoon]

19. No, but...

...it can be implied as complicity if you're not careful.

[Liberal Veteran]

20. What's to be gained from being uncivil at this point in time?

I just don't see any good that can come from it.

[FleshCartoon]

23. I'm not being uncivil.

Sorry that you don't see that. There are others on this thread being far more graphic in their ire against Reagan than I am. Why should you keep singling me out for rebuke?

[union_maid]

6. OK, maybe not affection

Some of these threads are pretty crass, though and it's not like this board isn't going to be read and quoted, to show what barbarians Democrats are. Also, I would like for us to play hardball when we need to, but to show some grace when we have nothing to lose by doing so.

[Reciprocity]

7. Nietzsche said it best.

I think what we have here is what Nietzsche was trying to convey when he said.

He who fights with monsters might take care
lest he thereby become a monster.
And if you gaze for long into an abyss,
the abyss gazes also into you.
Friedrich Nietzsche

[lastknowngood]

9. One side does not make civility and decorum the enemies of

this country show no civility or decorum about the death of Paul Welstone or any Dem, remember how much fun Rash Limpballs and his type enjoyed the death of Welstone. You cannot be civil to Nazi Bastards or they will win every fight.

[Liberal Veteran]

13. Not to put too fine a point on it, but that's exactly the rationale....

...that freepers use to justify the abuses that took place in American prisons in Iraq.

Remember. When the opposition behaves badly it reflects only on them.

[Senior citizen]

10. Abraham Lincoln wasn't totally opposed to slavery....

I am totally opposed to fascism.

[troublemaker]

11. civility and decorum?

I support the Civil War but I've never thought of it as a highpoint in civility and decorum.

Some would say such lofty sentiments in the midst of the first modern war (and one of the first total wars) are rank hypocrisy. Had I been alive back then I'm sure I would have been saying just that. Time and victory are great deodorants, though.

Sorry, I'm just sort of burned out on all the really cool noble things politicians say during wars. I wish someone had gotten up to speak about D-Day and said:

Sixty years ago today many thousands of men packed in little metal boats were thrown into opposition with thousands of other men packed into concrete bunkers and they killed each other in large numbers on this beach. The men in the metal boats won... and that was better than the immediate alternative. This is how we measure progress.

[Liberal Classic]

12. Amen

and Semper Fi.

[SaveElmer]

21. Well said!

This has been a very depressing day. DU has certainly showed its ugly side today.

[Rowdyboy]

22. Just as it has shown its classy side...

[Walt Starr]

24. Civility and decorum was destroyed by the right.

Demonstrating civility and decorum is a signal of weakness to the right and they POUNCE EVERY FUCKING TIME THE LEFT DEMONSTRATES IT!

Blame the death of civility and decorum on the right, but pick up a weapon and fight or get the fuck out of the way of those who would fight for you!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. I think the people being foul / dehumanizing are honoring Reagan's legacy

far more than I ever could...

This is a man who gave us "welfare queen," a complete ignorance of the AIDS crisis, and indifference to human suffering in Latin America by painting his opponents as something other than human....his opponents have now honored the mark he made on society by emulating him...they are his tools whether they acknowledge it or not.

Isn't imitation the most sincere form of flattery?

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

26. can one civiliy say that Reagans political legacy was not positive?

Can we not be honest in our opinions of this mans politics and political legacy? But also be civil about it.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

27. Politics is no tea party

it's a struggle. It's an out and out fight. We are FIGHTING against what bush and company are fighting for, because it would be the downfall of our country.

That doesn't mean I have to go around calling people names, agreed, but I also have no problem taking the gloves off and going three or sixteen rounds with them, either.

[Minstrel Boy]

28. A civil, decorous accomodation with apocalyptic fascists?

That's been tried. Sorry - doesn't work.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

30. Exactly

See, there's a gauge in all of us. We know when we are up against people who are....human....and who can be reasoned with and who can engage in civil discourse and debate.

And we also know when we are up against....monsters who care nothing for civil discourse and debate, but only for cramming their wishes down the throats of the people.

To THOSE people, I say fight back and fight hard. You don't have to lose your dignity or your humanity, there IS a fine line.....some of us seem to be on the wrong side of that line, some seem to be on the side that doesn't allow for enough fight. FIND THE LINE and stand on it. And fight.

[noiretextatique]

31. it died a long time ago

i am amused by all the calls for it for reagan, given the lack of it for so many others here. (hint: nader)

[Selwynn]

32. These last few days have been immensely discouraging and unfortunate

Absense of emapthy and a decency of spirit is the greatest evil, far greater that right or left - and as I have been reminded this weekened, that particular evil knows no party lines. Too many people today choose the quick and easy way and mistake hatred and rage for courage and resistance to tyranny. Too many people believe that its ok to spew venom and cynicism and revel in the suffering of others becuase "we are right." But I don't believe it is possible to be "right" and embrace those attitudes. The "left" isn't correct by default. "It" is only correct insofar as it practicies the principles it preaches. When we don't we're not better than our opponents, and far, far, far more disspointing, because I expect better from my friends and collegues, and all to often I see instead all the things that I reject in my opponents.