Hate well, hate smart, and hate hard.

[Minstrel Boy]

You should.

America has been dumbed down, beaten up, terrorized, cheated, corrupted, disgraced and despoiled by a band of apocalyptic, amoral brigands bent on endless war.

You need to hate them. You must. I worry that if enough Americans of good conscience don't hate them with a perfect, burning hatred, you'll never be rid of them.

You didn't hate them enough when they killed your leaders, even though most of you know they stood behind the gunmen. You didn't hate them enough when they peddled crack to the inner cities to fund their monstrous little war in Nicaragua, even though it's a matter of official record. You didn't hate them enough when they plundered your social security, even though it's your money. You didn't hate them enough when they turned your armed forces into their imperial legion, even though they did it in your name.

Please, don't worry that hatred may lower you to their level. What is it they hate? A just society, a healthy environment, equality of race and class, the rule of law....

If they were a radical fringe far from power, they would be beneath contempt. But they are power in America. You must hate them, for what they've done, and for what they threaten to do.

The United States and the entire world is in extremis thanks to the Cheney/Bush junta. Hatred is not only justified, it has become a political and moral obligation.

They are destroyers. The world they're constructing is a prison. Hate them for it. Hate them, while it can still make a difference.

Hate them. Please, for your children and all of humanity, hate them.

[mopaul]

1. hate is a gift. i'm full of hate, some folks just are

i always have been, and the hatred i feel for neo nazis from reagan to bush 2 is white hot. i don't care if some feel this is 'sinking to their level', fuck that. they are the ones who formed this hatred in me, i didn't just suddenly decide out of the clear blue to be full of hate. someday maybe, i can be rid of THE REASON for my hatred. but in the mean time, and in between time, ain't we got hate?

[necso]

2. Now you're talking.

This is a take-no-prisoners battle until these extremists are driven forever into the wilderness.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. I vehemently disagree

America has been dumbed down, beaten up, terrorized, cheated, corrupted, disgraced and despoiled by a band of apocalyptic, amoral brigands bent on endless war.

So I guess sensationalization takes no blame in the moral game that has become America then? Frankly, I think the shockjockery that this outward expression of hatred takes is part and parcel of what dehumanizes us all and robs us of the compassion one might have towards the poor...or people of color..if they could just locate empathy in themselves.

YOu like to place the blame...I prefer to go to the source.


You need to hate them. You must. I worry that if enough Americans of good conscience don't hate them with a perfect, burning hatred, you'll never be rid of them.

I worry if people take your advice, they will become them...there are many leftists who claimed to advocate for people fallen on hard times that were just as murderous as their righty counterparts....

You didn't hate them enough when they killed your leaders, even though most of you know they stood behind the gunmen. You didn't hate them enough when they peddled crack to the inner cities to fund their monstrous little war in Nicaragua, even though it's a matter of official record. You didn't hate them enough when they plundered your social security, even though it's your money. You didn't hate them enough when they turned your armed forces into their imperial legion, even though they did it in your name.

Lots of people here didn't even vote or pay political attention when that was going on...it wasn't hatred or the lack thereof that got us here but the "I got mine" indifference...so I reject that paragraph too.


Please, don't worry that hatred might lower you to their level. What is it they hate? A just society, a healthy environment, equality of race and class, the rule of law....

Gee... I dunno...MArtin Luther King accomplished a lot more than you without relying on hatred....who do I trust? Martin Luther King? Or some guy on a BBS

[NV1962]

13. Don't look now, but they killed MLK

Fire with TNT.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

They killed him and in his place there was the civil rights act

laws to stop redlining and a number of corrections (although we have more to go) to the manner in which society conducts itself in general...my better point was not lost on the fact that they killed him..in fact, I'll bet they rue the day they did since they could have "Jesse Jacksonized" him had they let him live.

[NV1962]

26. Tried it your way for decades - let's try the other way now

All good words and speeches of good intentions aside, MLK wouldn't and couldn't be proud of the state of affairs today, decades after his death.

Nope: no more token civility.

Fire with TNT.

[lastknowngood]

18. MLK talked of peace and preached it and lived it however it was

not peace that changed this country for a while it was the riots, it was the violence. As long as it was peaceful it got little coverage and made no progress, it's a sad commentary on my country but nothing major has changed here without violence. I don't advocate it or wish it however I do feel it is inevitable. When peaceful change become imposable violent change becomes inevitable, not a philosophy just a statement of history.

[Minstrel Boy]

21. Well yeah, I'd say MLK accomplished a lot more than me, but

there's a great line in Bob Dylan's brilliant film Masked and Anonymous: "What did Martin Luther King get out of it? A boulevard?"

King's legacy has become a sad mockery, boiled down by the corporate hive mind to "I have a dream", which sounds little more dangerous than "pie in the sky when you die, bye and bye," wholly excising from America's memory his campaign for economic justice, which is probably what got him killed.

See, the thing is, I guess I'm not feeling so charitable right now to the universal jailers, who've been gunning down, suiciding and accidenting America's hopes for 40 years.

Let them mourn and bury their own.

[keithyboy]

33. The Bible says to "hate evil" "abhor evil" They are 'evil'

Should a Christian not obey?

[salin]

44. and thus become evil

this liberal Christian says thank you very much but I am no Michael Savage. Thankfully.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

4. Oh, I do! But..

it's going to take more than mere hate to dislodge them from power. Hate is only the beginning! We need to somehow manage to transform our hate into constructive action and results...

I really like what Al Franken has to say:

"We have to fight back. But we can't fight like they do. The Right's entertainment value comes from their willingness to lie and distort. Ours will have to come from being funny and attractive."

I guess what I'm saying is, we should work to channel our hate into something that attracts people to our cause. (although, truth be told, it makes me sad that truth and justice and kindness in and of themselves apparently aren't enough...)


ON EDIT: Mopaul's political cartoons are a great example of channeling hate into something productive and inspiring.

[salin]

8. Difference between fighting back

and honoring hate. The former has led to great things. The latter has led to massacres by fellow citizens in places like Germany, Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia, Russia, etc. Hate dehumanizes and gives a false and frightening sense of self-righteousness in that hate that desensitizes enough to commit heinous crimes against those who are the object of that hate.

Remember that item last week... dude gets caught in a truck with explosives and a note stating his intentions to blow up 1,500 democrats at a Presidential Caucus. That is the product of the hate being advocated. The left is not immune to such atrocities.

[david_vincent]

38. I missed that story... does anyone have a link?

[salin]

41. was in LBN earlier this week

could try google - key words I remember from the story: New Jersey (where he was caught), Illinois (where he was from), explosives, truck, caucus, ... that should zero in on the story. May want to try www.news.google.com

[DEMVET-USMC]

68. I guess I miss your point. You describe a man trying to kill 1,500 Dem.s

That seems like a damn good reason to hate him and his ilk and if there are more such as him out there and I expect there are more, it is time to be ready to fight back. It`s called selfdefense...Oscar

[salin]

71. point is fermenting a level of hate is what unhinges someone

enough to dehumanize others and plot to kill thousands. Sorta like Tim McVeigh thinking of the children in the day care center as "collateral damage".

Don't know that nurturing that level of hatred - as a virtue - is really a positive (or productive - imagine the blowback if successful) direction. That isn't fighting back - it is preemptive strikes - and frightening to contemplate.

[salin]

5. Frightening

makes me want to take a shower.

Now hate is a virtue.

Martin Luther King Jr., Ghandi and others are spinning in their graves.

Perhaps this is parody of the grotesque?

[Taylor Mason Powell]

10. hating injustice

and oppression and war and corruption and evil and so forth is a virtue.

It's how one expresses that hatred that makes all the difference.

You think MLK didn't hate injustice? With the same burning white-hot passion that Mopaul expresses? I think he did.

[salin]

20. Appalling. absolutely appalling and historically naive

from where MLKJr was motivated and where mopaul is motivated are far different places. If King did not take his anger and move it into passion to move forward (rather than dwell in hate) and move with DIGNITY... he would not have helped to move a nation. He knew what risks he was taking... and took them for the bigger cause. He was brave. He was moved through spiritual strength that faced the hatred down.. not with burning vile hatred (or he would have advocated violence) but with steely determination.

Or did you miss the whole point and the written lessons of nonviolent resistance?

[Taylor Mason Powell]

29. Oh spare me.

You're simultaneously in MLK's heart and MoPaul's heart? Bite me. King, as you said, "took his anger and moved it into passion to move forward." Just as Mopaul does...just like many people do, in many different ways.

So thanks for proving my point, and thanks also for the condescension and the history lesson.

[salin]

35. the folks here advocating Michael Savage like hatred

were being compared to MLKjr. That is transparent and foolish... and very insulting - and condescending in its own way.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

43. All the same...

I can honestly say that I HATE Michael Savage with the same burning hatred that he expresses towards people like me.

Is it so wrong to want a counterbalance? To want to fight their hate with equally strong hate of our own? Even if we agree that the particular method of expressing that hate should be on a higher level than that of the Savages of the world, can we honestly equate hatred of gays, immigrants, liberals, etc. with the hatred of injustice, persecution, etc? I don't think so.

In other words, while a lefty radio show that spews invective against Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh may not be "the answer," I think the original poster's point is that we should be FUCKING PISSED OFF, and that we should own and celebrate that anger.

I am, and I do. My sole contribution to this discussion is simply that we must be sure to channel that "hate" or anger or whatever you want to call it into positive and constructive means.

[salin]

47. Maybe we define it differently

but those folks make me angry as hell. I rant, respond, and fight back.

But hate, to me, is that place that allows me to commit violence - to take lives - and to feel justified in doing so.

For the past year or so more voices than just Coulter's on the right seem to be fanning THAT level of hate and it scares me - seriously scares me.

To read that same level of hate here... at the much more thoughtful DU - where anger (mine included) is a regular staple... frightens me as well.

For the first time, tonight, I realize that this country really is on the brink of serious, and wide spread violence - from both the right and the left.

I wasn't mourning Reagan's death. But tonight I now move into mourning. Call it a crisis in faith that those on the left really hold a higher view of humanity than those on the (current) right.

I hear murderous rage in some of these posts. While I think outrage and anger are good in terms of harnessing for forward movement. I think murderous rage is dangerous. And here it is - in the mirror - on our side.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

51. Surprise, surprise.

You've been at DU a looong time. Just like me, despite my relatively low post count.

You know as well as I do that the "murderous rage" you read here is simply anonymous ids blowing off steam, expressing their anger.

Dollars to donuts, when the civil war breaks out it's gonna be the Freepers who are the ones who start the shooting. I believe that with perfect faith.

We talk a big game around here, because we can. But most of us are pussycats in real life. I think your crisis of faith is unwarranted in this instance. Please keep the faith! We ARE better than the opposition!

[salin]

57. I hope that you are right

I have just never read so much of it with such valence - here and there - sure... and I certainly express outrage as well ... but this reads with a distinctly darker tone. And I have heard this tone before in life... and it was associated with death and violence among gangs in Detroit - lost a number of students to the gun violence/crack wars. When i hear or read certain rhetoric from the right - it is distrubing to me when the precursor dehumanizing aspects are their along with inciting hatred.

I hope this is just venting - because for the first time I can remember here... it reads as something very ominous instead.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

59. I hope I'm right too...

time will tell if this is something truly new and different, or something of a different character than other explosions of rage we've seen here. My best guess is it's just a case of DU being DU.

In general, I should say that I very much agree with you that we should resist the temptation to dehumanize The Enemy. Even though they are slimy subhuman vermin who do not deserve to live.

:-) :-)

[salin]

63. hehe

have to admit that sometimes I regard some on the other side as slimey vermin as well ;-)

[Taylor Mason Powell]

64. Of course you do.

That's because you're a good person. :-)

[Mike Niendorff]

69. With all due respect, it is not Weiner's "hatred" that bothers me most

It is the fact that he is a lying, scheming propagandist and an apologist for domestic fascism.

Whether it's hatred that motivates his actions, or whether it's pure detached sociopathic calculation, it really makes no difference to me.

My complaint is not with the attitude of his heart, it's with the consequences of his actions.


MDN

[salin]

72. the hatred he espouses

is the danger of his actions as it incites that level of hatred and action among his listeners... He says we should incarcerate and kill all the liberals... some dude (wanta guess if he listened to savage who suggests this action frequently) heads off to new jersey with the intention of blowing up "1500 democrats at a presidential caucus". I find that very dangerous. Makes the inciting ala rush seem downright benign.

[Mike Niendorff]

76. you just made my point for me.

You see Savage's hatred as a "dangerous" thing specifically because of the actions it incites. So be it. Now, compare that to what MB is saying. What "dangerous" actions is his hatred of the far right inciting? Acts of resistance! Resistance *specifically against* the very "danger" you are citing! There is simply no equivalence between the two positions, whether you classify them both as "hate", "anger", or whatever else.


MDN

[salin]

77. hate as a virtue

enables hate ala Savage.

[Mike Niendorff]

80. ridiculous.

That's like saying that we should abandon *anger* (because some people's develop unjustifiable and uncontrollable anger that leads them to do bad things).

There is a time for justifiable outrage.
There are people whose actions make them worthy of being despised and even hated.


MDN

[DEMVET-USMC]

40. MLK is dead and there is a time for Hate, This is the time,this is the

place. ...Oscar

[seemslikeadream]

46. Amen Oscar

We must be in survival mode. We are fighting for our lives!

[DEMVET-USMC]

61. Hi my freind. Indeed we are fighting for our lives. If we lose this

election, this last 3 and 1/2 is but a prelude for whats in store for us. ...Oscar

[saracat]

15. Martin Luther KingJr,

and Ghandi are both dead!As are Bobby Kennedy and JFK. The RW hated them enough to kill.I don't think the great arbitrators of peace accomplished their goal and yet the united hate filled RW's triumph.Are you saying we should be loving and moral and fail? I want to win at all costs.There is too much at stake and a phyrric victory is no victory at all!

[Liberal Veteran]

17. What price victory...

...if it costs a man his soul?

[NMDemDist2]

48. you said it all liberal_vet, I will practice love and compassion

and will die for my belief that hate is never the way to progress.

<sigh>

[saracat]

78. If a man does not fight for that which is right he has no soul!

Anger, and positively directed hate can be amongst the most productive emotions of man. These emotions spiral an unparralled energy that ,diected toward a positive goal, can accomplish miracles. Passivity and acceptance will never get the voters off their asses. It might be peaceful and nice and good but it is not inspiring. Anger leads to action.

[salin]

22. Pol pot and Rwanda call you as well.

rhetoric only a hair different than Michael Savage's.

[Nlighten1]

16. There is a time for love and for peace.

It is after the war is over. If we sit on the sidelines singing kumbaya much longer the war will be over and we will have lost it.

[salin]

28. F*CK That

Where the fuck have I ever advocated singing Kumbaya? Where the fuck have I ever advocated not fighting the fight? Where the fuck have I said that?

There are different kinds of wars - and those where we allow ourselves to dehumanize those on the other side - will end up able to commit the same atrocities and will lose our battles in the end.

It is the Michael savage like HATRED that I read on this thread that I react to.

There is a HUGE distance between singing Kumbaya and advocated the kind of hate that allows throughit the violence that led to lynchings, to the tortue at Abu Ghraib, to the extermination of the American Indians, etc. Don't cast it as binary - as it isn't.

And yes I am angry - I don't think in 2 1/2 years that I have ever said fuck on DU straight out.

[Minstrel Boy]

34. "the Michael savage like hatred I read on this thread"

That, I'm not advocating. I included "hate smart" in the subject line for a reason.

[salin]

50. It is through out this thread

and it scares the fuck out of me. Becareful what you reap. Even those with good intentions can reap havoc upon other humans.

[BeFree]

52. I was kinda with ya until now

Salin. Your words about non-violence tugged at me pretty good, then you fell into your own trap with the violent words you began using.....

You seem to infer that we shall take up arms and fight - violence. No one here has come close to saying that. You even go so far as to suggest we shall take up lynching. My advice? Step away from the computer.

We need to begin to express our hate instead of being all nicy-nice liberals. We need to fire up the hatred that will empower the masses to finally stand up to the bullies.

They are evil, they deserve our hatred. Hopefully they will begin to taste it very soon.

Reagan is dead. The Reagan era is over. Time to take back America.

[Minstrel Boy]

53. "empower the masses to finally stand up to the bullies"

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Thank you.

[BeFree]

60. Ya done good, boy!

I've enjoyed your missives. Let 'er rip!

[salin]

62. Thing is

I spent three years working in a very violent community - among serious gangs during the height of the "Crack Wars" in Detroit. I am familiar with the language of dehumanization - along with self-righteous (delusions) - that somehow psychologically permit great atrocities to occur. Kid lost a father due to a drive by shooting into the house that was meant to kill him. Another kid is gunned down in an alley. Another kid shoots another person in the base of the neck. Shall I go on - there were more.

What do you think allowed people to not only participate but celebrate lynchings? That is a part of this country's history. A combination of dehumanizing and self-righteous hatred (and fear, also present in the above situations).

Yep - I reacted here because before tonight I had never read a series of posts that seemed to have this level of hatred and self-righteousness as a very dark undercurrent. Tonight, for the first time, I have to step back and hope that this is just over the top rhetoric and venting. If not - then I really do have great fear of what we are breeding on our side as well as the other side.

[BeFree]

73. I think ya finally got it, salin

Reagan is dead and the pent up frustration is being released. That's all. You have just attempted to make the worst of it. We will never be like the followers of RR, don't you realize that? Day in and day out, they spew lies and venom. For one, two, maybe even three days we will trash the memory of RR. Then get on toward Nov 2.

Let 'er Rip!

[Nlighten1]

54. You referenced MLK and Gandhi in your first comment.

Both of them were people who advocated a "peaceful" resolution to the cause. That is why I said that.

Fuck me? Come on. Are you saying we can't disagree without being nasty to one another?

Hate doesn't have to lead to lynchings and Abu Ghraib style events. Look at the original posters comments...

"Hate well, Hate smart, Hate hard"

This doesn't mean...go and murder people and torture people for no reason. Hate but use your head. Use your head to turn the tables on THEIR hatred of us and everything we stand for.

It would be different if the poster said...

"Just Hate"

If you don't think people like Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld HATE us you are wrong.

Beat them at their own game, fight fire with fire, and bring the war to their door.

[salin]

66. shortening what I had said into we can't just sing kumbaya

was exceptionally dismissive - and at that moment - because we have met and I don't think you really think that I am just someone who thinks we should all wear peace beads and sit around singing kumbaya and thus what I have to say should be completely dismissed - it set me off in a way that generally doesnt happen.

The level of escalating rhetoric - that isn't just talking about political strategy and outrage.. that works towards dehumanization and a glorification/righteouness not around doing what is right for the country but revolving around hate... that is losing our grounding/center/ and real righteousness. Hate should not be what propels us. Vision should propel us - and outrage should feed the energy and keep the wits sharp in order to FIGHT to create and implement the vision. Hate is not the central motivator and when it becomes that - we become nothing but hate - and we are enabled to wreak great damage on the foci of that hatred.

[playahata1]

70. Salin, I have read your posts for almost three years now,

and I have agreed with you most of the time.

However, I was with you until you talked about "dehumanization." The Right sees us liberal and progressive and radical types as THE ENEMY. As such, in their eyes, we are less than human. I for one do not think that their attitude towards us will change by turning the other cheek, by taking the high road. That has gotten us nowhere, nothing, except being crapped on and insulted time and again. Bullies and tyrants respect those who stand up to them. It is way past time the fascists get a dose of their own medicine. Peace.

[salin]

74. It outrages and frightens me when I hear that (and i refer to it ala

savage throughout this thead)... when I hear it from ourside as well - esp as a virtue and advocated as a primary motivator... then I get a pit in the stomach that a violent end is the inevitable as whole large swaths of the country come to view one another as subhuman - the subjects of hatred... and wonder if we are immune to a Rwanda type situation. I have never been one to get into the tinfoily "we are headed for a civil war".. until tonight... until this rhetoric at this level of violence.

I actually think that we are really close to winning - and each day with each screwup of this administration - at such serious levels that even the pandering press can no longer just not report it - the tide moves further. Rememeber after the 2002 midterms... the sense was - we may have a LONG shot at regaining the senate but had too many vulnerable senators to make it possible... and while we might be able to erode the lead of the repubs in the house that it would take many cycles to have a shot at taking over... and most major democratic candidates were slow to commit to running viewing it as a bad year for any candidate.

Now - senate is starting to look very likely to switch. Even after the Texas redistricting gave additional house seats to the repubs, article after article (and two house seats flipping to dem in special elections) from the hill refers to a very decent shot at the dems taking over the House as well.. .and Kerry is looking very possible.

If the bushco keeps screwing up - and if we do get dem control of at least one house of congress and the White House- the hearings that need to be held per the serious corruption (and couple of cases of treason per national security) - that will upend the whole conservative movement. I think it is getting closer and closer to the point where bush may not only lose, but the entire extreme right movement and agenda may become so publically discredited that they don't just go into hibernation to come back later - but that they are out of power for quite a long time.

For this to happen we do have to be mobilized, and active, as we are finally becoming... I just don't think it also takes the level of dehumanizing self-righteous hatred as a virtue to get there... outrage and vision and commitment have gotten us closer than we have been in years - and there are still nearly six months to go... I wouldn't write us off as unable to win and fight back... just yet.

[salinen]

6. Reporting for duty

Sir.

[salin]

12. Rwanda's waiting

fanned the flames in the same way... hatred as a virtue. Dehumanizing the other.

[lastknowngood]

7. A little common sense! What a breath of fresh air

n/t

[Nlighten1]

9. Fix bayonets!

Charge!

[salin]

14. exactly... worked for Pol Pot!

yipee... hate (not anger) is a virtue... get self righteous!

*scares the FUCK out of me, to see this kind of rhetoric escalate*

[Nlighten1]

23. It works for the Republicans too.

And they are beating us handily or do you disagree? Our current "play nice" ideas have only accomplished the complete turnover of the nation's government to them.

Should we continue "playing nice" until we really are completely irrelevant?

[salin]

32. Did I say that we should play nice

but giving in to the selfrighteous language of hatred leads to the level of violence that characterizes the worst atrocities in human history.

Fight the fight - keep an eye on the righteous place we need to move this country. But do it with anger but not hatred. There is a difference. Pure hatred let whites down south see african americans as less human - and allowed for things like cheering on the lynchings. It has allowed for the widespread torture that we have seen dished out in our name in Iraq. Hatred that dehumanizes can lead to no good in the end. Just empowers the sick to go that much further and feel justified in inflicting physical damage and death upon others.

[Liberal Veteran]

11. No thank you....hatred harms the soul of the hater

It is a cancer that will consume you.

Disagree? Yes.
Pity? Absolutely.
Fight? For sure.

Hate? I don't need it.

[salin]

37. I have never read anything so upsetting in my years at Du

think I have to take a break. For the first time I wonder if we really are headed for civil war. Always read that rhetoric as tinfoily - but clearly it could start from our end as easily as from the other. Really frightening.

[chookie]

19. You can count me out

We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know you can count me out

You say you got a real solution
Well you know
We'd all love to see the plan

But if you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait

You better free your mind instead

[LibertyorDeath]

24. Finally a voice of sanity

This compassionate Liberal stuff is going to work real well against
the far right.

While they march us off to prison camps we can explain how we won't sink to their level.

Thank you for your excellent post.

[necso]

42. Spot on.

Sinking to their level would be so, so ... so not nice.

They hit us once, we hit them a hundred times... and throw their preppy (or wannabe) punk asses down the stairs. (Of course I speak in metaphors... Of course.)

[kentuck]

25. Hate could be a powerful political weapon?

Since they already say that Democrats are a Party of "haters". What if we became exactly what they say? Would that blow their minds or what? They really are a bunch of haters, you know? Oh, I didn't know. Where did you get such an idea?

[salin]

39. uh oh - looks like you might have to change that avatar

doesn't fit with the extreme Hate as a virtue and basis for "winning the war" in this country.

[ContinentalOp]

27. Woah, it's all semantics...

Just because the word "hate" happens to be part of the phrase "hate crime" doesn't mean my hatred for fascists isn't justified. Please don't lump the entire emotion of hatred in with the people who commit hate crimes. I understand Christianity and the virtue of love but I'm no Christian and I reserve my right to express the emotion of hatred without being compared to racists.

[U4ikLefty]

82. I'm glad someone said it!!!

It's all semantics...I got what they meant. Do you think people really took the word hate that way??? I often wonder it it's just a way to get on the soapbox & play hall monitor to those of us on Left who "embarass" them. We need shit-talkers on the Left as well as uptight PC-freaks.

The message from the Left need to be a broad one...and don't call me a sexist, not that kinda "broad"!!!

[DEMVET-USMC]

30. And that family for helping Hitler and the Nazis. The Bush and Walker

families helped create the Nazis and this material aid continued on until well after THE U.S. entry into the war against Nazi Germany. Prescott bush and George Walker the current president`s namesake and Great Grandfather along with his grandfather helped create, arm, and supply the Nazis from their beginning. For this story go to <http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm >. This family has caused our Nation more misery than any family in the history of America and the continue their war profiteering to this day. The former President Bush is a member of The Carlyle Group a band of war profiteers that once included a brother of Osama bin Laden and may still ,no one knows for sure. Hate them for this too. ...Oscar

[Selwynn]

31. Hate never helps - many mistake hate for

courage and resistance. I'll stand in the long tradition of folks like Dr. King and Howard Zinn and others. I believe in resistance, but I also believe it not sacrificing what you believe in along the way. I don't believe that emotionalism is the way to a better society. And running fueled on hate is nothing more than irrational emotionalism.

I believe that reason, critical reflection and intense strategic resistance, not based on a a whipping up of base animal feelings by based rather on the higher level sophisticated reasoning capacity granted to all men and woman, is the answer.

I don't believe the answer is to act just like "them." And even if it is the "answer" I will not cooperate or participate. And if "our" guys took back Washington in the future, and preceded to act in hatred and intolerance toward those who hold a different point of view, then they are not my people either.

I don't believe hate, any hate, is compatible with "a just society, a healthy environment, equality of race and class, the rule of law."

But more important than that, it goes against my heart - and to thine own self be true.

[kaitykaity]

36. I wonder, is it possible to hate

what they've done without hating them as human beings?
Hate the sin, not the sinner, that sort of thing?

[msmcghee]

45. It's a fine line between hate and depravity.

The worst thing about what the repukes have done to America is that we are forced to make the decision being argued over in this thread.

Progressives like to believe that governing can be a fair, calm, reasoned activity engaged in by well-meaning folks. Room for passion and strong belief, but never strong enough to lose respect for the other side.

That's why it's taken us so long to wake up. We've politely resisted this for twenty years hoping it would die on its own. It didn't. We almost did.

It's OK to be pissed. We can use it. But keep it where it can't keep us from being smart too. True believers lose their strongest weapons, their brains. That's always been our advantage when we care to use it.

So, don't get mad, let's get even.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Minstrel Boy]

56. "rage-fiend"? "violent impulses"?

That's not me, and it's not the hate I'm advocating.

And frankly, I don't think you know me well enough to describe my "mental and emotional problems." :crazy:

[Craig Roberts]

65. ...

I know more about you than I wanted to know, thanks to your foolish post.

Everybody on the left is frustrated. Everybody feels the game is rigged and we aren't getting a fair chance. Everybody is frightened about what is happening in this country. Everybody is angry.

You know what? Deal with it. Deal with it like an adult. Manage your emotions like an adult and maintain your focus on the positive changes you want to make in the world and the positive reasons for why you want to make them. And if you can't handle the inevitable disappointments and frustrations of politics, and if all you feel is hate and rage, go see a therapist and work your way through it. Don't come in here pretending your childish emotions are the answer.

[Walt Starr]

55. Fuckin' A right I hate 'em

They've hated me so long I can only respond with hatred.

I'm preparing for the final conflict because I know damn well and good they will get violent once Bush goes down and I sure as hell intend to fight when THEY start the civil war.

[bleedingheart]

58. Strong emotions are what normally bring about change

the unions created the middle class in this country by kicking captitalists in the nuts.

[Tellurian]

67. Hate is a No Brainer.. and is self destructive.

because you make yourself like the losers who hate,
so shall you lose in the end.

salin is correct and I wholeheartedly agree with his posts.
We are angry at the hate being propagated in this country.
But we don't have to hate to eradicate it.
We are smarter than that!

I guess thats why they call it "blind hatred"-
Hatred will destory the soul of mankind and
exactly what the Bush Gang are counting on.

[freeforall]

75. What kind of talk is this?

...from a "peace-loving" Canadian?

Hatred destroys the soul. Better to work on changing things for the good.

Get out and help with the liberal and democratic campaigns - then GO VOTE!!!

[JohnOneillsMemory]

79. Outrage, not hate. You cite passion, not hate. Be energized, don't hate.

I hear where you are coming from. My friends and family find my own passionate outrage too much sometimes.

But they notice it and the issues I refer to. And they learn. And they pass on the energy to others. It's a chain reaction.

Bad things happen because people don't speak against them. But hate is as toxic as violence and should be avoided.

I think you have a vocabulary problem that alienates rather than enlists and humanizes and inspires. That's all.

Revile the actions but understand and humanize the oppressors so we can better understand how to survive their power and change it's venues.

[VOX]

81. Should we put them in concentration camps? Or isn't that hateful enough?

Anger? yes. Outrage? yes. Motivation to fight like hell? Yes. Get the country started back on track? Yes.

Hate? No. Hate consumes the hater, sooner or later. Nothing good comes of hate. It is a cancer. It feeds on itself, and kills its host.