Carter did more to end the Cold War than Reagan...

[FullCountNotRecount]

1. Carter pushed for Polish pope to generate religious split from commies in Poland.
2. Carter supported Solidarity Union in Poland (Reagan was against unions).
3. CIA secretly funded East German, Czech and Hungarian student movements to undermine commie authority and make(Reagan was against student movements).
4. Funding of Afghan rebels demoralized the USSR military.
5. Even Nixon's opening of USSR and China created a dialogue and exposed them to American capitalist and free enterprise creativity.
6. The USSR was falling apart and we had seen their economic failures for years Kruschev's five year plans, etc.

Reagan had one Hollywood movement: "Tear down that wall." But he was a minor player in modern history.

[tabasco]

1. So did George C. Marshall

The repugs act like the battle against communism started when Reagan came to office. Typical repug ignorance of history. They also like to overlook little details in the fight against communism like the Korean War and the Vietnam War.

[salin]

4. Marshall plan had a huge role.

Allowed a faster economic rebuilding, recovery and juxtaposition for the struggling eastern european satelite states. With the strength of Western Europe, NATO presented an ongoing threat and need to use resources to "strengthen the iron curtain" in reaction.

But we are force fed simplistic causal relationships these days - and this myth that Reagan single handedly with an arm tied behind his back ended the cold war will continue to be snarfed up by many.

[BeFree]

2. Carter was the key

It just came to me... the pukes could see that if Carter lasted another 4 years, the iron curtain would come down in that time. Also that peace between the Israelis and Palestinians was a very real possibility if Carter won the election.

So, they cooked up the releasing of the hostages, maybe even the oil shortages, to make sure they gained power.

[kentuck]

3. Didn't the Soviet Union officially "collapse" under George Bush Sr ??

As did the tearing down of the Berlin Wall? Neither of those events happened while Reagan was President, is that correct? Of course, they like to say that the great economy under Clinton was because of Reagan's taxcuts also.

[mark0rama]

6. Yes to the Berlin Wall part, at least.

I remember that Bush 41 took credit for it "like the rooster taking credit for the sun coming up." (To steal a phrase from Ann Richards, I think.)

[gpandas]

5. the american taxpayer defeated the soviet union n/t

[mzmolly]

7. Yes he did. Not to mention the Salt II treaty

... U.S. President Carter and Soviet President Brezhnev signed the Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty (SALT) 2 Treaty in Vienna, helping to put the brakes on the arms race.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/salt2/intro.htm

[eurolefty]

9. SALT II was great

First time in my life it felt like USA and USSR actually might not turn 'Yurp' into a huge radioactive parking lot.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. I wonder how the Moscow Olympic boycott figured in this

they got us back in '84 by boycotting LA. The whole eastern bloc skipped out as well.

[wuushew]

10. Why was sacrificing Afghanistan less important than freeing Europe?

Supporting the radical Islamists got us ten years of the Taliban and the country itself was brought offically into the stoneage.

Any country that spends 70% of it's GDP on defense is bound to collaspe. Since many former Soviet citizens are elderly they might not live to see a brighter ecomonic future "promised" by capitalism.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

12. Blame Bush I for walking away from Afgans in '91

as soon as the Soviets were gone they pulled the plug and left the country to fester.
Blame stupid and shortsighted Bush dad for the rise of the Taliban.

[wuushew]

14. Right, I agree but for the sake of argument lets say the Soviets won

I mean Afghanistan is no more special than many of the other central Asian republics many of which have colorful histories of nomadic warloading and have been seats of great empires. Most of these were gobbled up by the Soviets in early 1920s with concessions given to Islam to pacifiy the citizens.

What I want to know is if the American policy of arming pro-Western thugs actually saved any more lives then letting nations fall to what we considered unfriendly governments. Clearly it caused great problems in places like Iran and Central America. Jimmy Carter was involved in both these arenas and unfortunately most post-WWII presidents have fallen far short of what I consider ideal foreign policy. It just happens to be the Republicans are far far worse in this respect.

[nuxvomica]

11. Thanks posting this. I thought I was alone in thinking it.

Don't forget the grain embargo, either. The farmers' rebellion hurt Carter more than the hostage crisis. But it raised the cost of grain for the Soviets, dealing a coup de grace to their already feeble economy. When Richard Nixon was interviewed by David Frost after the fall of the Berlin Wall, Nixon identified 1980 as the year that the dissolution of the Eastern Bloc became inevitable.

[RebelOne]

13. I like Carter as President

but when he opened the borders to all the Cuban Mariel immigrants, well, that pissed me off royally. At that time, I lived in Miami and our crime rate doubled after they hit our shores.

[keithyboy]

15. You may want to give this history lesson over at the Freeper boards

and to the FOX punddies.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

16. Dont forget supporting funding of stealth technology.

Stealth was accomplished during the Ford/Carter years.

[wuushew]

18. Stealth is useless in cases of nuclear war

A potent arsenal of ICBM's is more than sufficient to either end all life on the planet or serve as a deterent through MAD.

The whole concept of the nuclear triad is very costly in terms of dollars and I would ask all B2 proponents to think how many roads and or schools one bomber could build.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

19. well, sure, MAD worked too.

Stealth was just a way to penetrate radar defenses.

[kentuck]

17. It was rock and roll that tore down that wall....

Just ask any East German or Russian.. :)

[Yupster]

20. It sure didn't seem that way at the time

Carter came to office soon after S Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia all turned communist.

There were communist movements trying to topple regimes throughout the world with us trying to prop up the regimes. While he was president, Angola, Mozambique, Ethiopia and Nicaragua all turned communist after bloody fights with our side losing each time.

Were we about to defeat the Soviet Union? Boy it sure didn't look like it at the time. It looked like our side was getting its butt kicked all over the world.

Then our friend the Shah was replaced by the Ayattollah, and if Carter had a plan, I sure didn't see it.

Carter talked of a national maaise effecting the nation.

Then he said he was shocked when the Russians invaded Afghanistan.

All the sudden there was a new Jimmy Carter, a Carter who would take a stand. There was the Olympics Boycott, the grain embargo, the arming of the mujahhadin.

Still, when Carter left office we werer being humiliated in Iran, and were in retreat and on the defensive everywhere in the world.

Don't want to give Reagan credit for the Cold War? That's fine.

But give the credit to Carter?

That doesn't pass my laugh test. I was old enough to remember how depressed the country was back then. How we were in retreat everywhere and there was talk that maybe the presidency was too big a job for any one man.

Many people nw say it was inevitable the Soviet Union would collapse and maybe it was, but it sure didn't look like it in 1979.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

21. it was inevitable the Soviet Union would collapse

that is very true.

[Yupster]

22. Sure didn't seem that way at the time

I went to college as a history major in the late 70's.

None of my history professors ever pointed that inevitability out to me. In fact they were pretty admiring of the great growth and progress the USSR was showing.

I guess it's easy to look back 25 years later and see the inevitability of it.

You hear the same thing in a lot of history discussions. "Oh it was inevitible that the north would win the Civil War."