An Honest ? - If you're a pascifist, how do you feel about D-Day?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

I'm asking for a strictly pascifist point of view here.

[eyesroll]

1. Do we have many true pacifists here?

I think most people here are anti-Iraq war; many are also anti-Afghanistan. I don't know of too many people who are strictly pacifist (Do we have any Quakers?)

I'm curious as well.

[Gman]

2. I'm not a total pacifist

but in general I oppose war. However, D-Day was completely necessary. We had no choice but to meet aggression with aggression. D-Day and Iraq have absolutely nothing in common. They are as different as matter and anti-matter.

[Malva Zebrina]

3. I have been watching the history channel during the day

I have to say that this war to contain this madman was necessary. I have to say I was brought to tears watching the sacrifices these young brave people offered to us. It is totally awesome

and it was the last war that I can justify.

anything after this, was and is pure greed and empire seeking

Something happened to this country after that war.

Something bad happened

Anything that will be billed as a war now is merely empire seeking and any troop willing to sacrifice his or her life in order to get a college education is really pitiful and pathetic. A president, not legally elected who declares himself a "war president" is suspect, especially when he himself avoided duty during wartime and went AWOL.

He is stupidly using up the lives of our young for his own greed. He is a prick who is using up the lives of our precious young for his own purposes, which are delusional, religious and geared toward allocating to his buddies, great war profits, as his ancestors did in WWII.

Any troop that signs up now has got to realize that any combat they will be engaged in will be merely for empire and will be extremely questionable as to it's moral and ethical purpose.

We need to tell our children this and we needc to prevent them from joining the military to sacrifice their lives for the greed of politicians who could give not a shit aobut their lives.

[patdem]

4. Really..if German had become the official language

the outcome of WW1...and WW2 could have been very different. And those are the facts of History....to the Victors goes the writing of History!!!

[bluestateguy]

5. WWII is always the toughest test case for pacifists

Dropping of the A-bomb is one thing, but the larger war presents a major challenge to pacifist ideology, and coming up with an alternative to war is even harder.

[quaker bill]

6. As a pacifist

I like to question all the failures in foriegn policy that led to the rise of the third reich and eventually WWII. By the time of D-Day we had been attacked and the Germans had formed a strategic alliance with Japan. At that point, D-Day was unavoidable - as was the rest of the carnage across Europe and the Pacific.

Pacifism is a rather active pursuit. The conditions that create violent conflict are well known and can be prevented, but it takes early action.

[BBradley]

7. I regret that it had to come to D-Day.

If the rest of the world wasn't sitting around with it's thumb up it's ass while the Nazis gained power, maybe this wouldn't have been an issue. He had to go next door before anyone did anything, because then it's like Eddie Izzard said, "After a few years we won't stand for that."

[ElsewheresDaughter]

8. sick

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

9. Kick - are there any strictly pascifist people here who deny war period?

I ask this in true curiosity. I am trying to find the widest amount of viewpoints to our current situation as possible. I know the moderate, mildly left, and very left stances, but what about the dedicated purists of pascifism. Be your leanings, religious, spiritual, both, or neiher, how do true pascifists feel about D-Day?

[quaker bill]

13. I deny war and the conditions that create it.

That being aside, by the time D-Day arrived it was at least a decade too late for pacifist intervention. The denial of deadly conflict is an active pursuit that must occur well before people break out the weapons.

You are simply asking the wrong question. D-Day was just one element of a deplorable geopolitical condition that arose through decades of injustice and neglect.

Pacifism is far more than deploring battles and the carnage therein. It is the yearning for and active pursuit of justice that prevents the battles in the first place.

As a pacifist I feel the same about Pearl Harbor, D-Day, The Bombing of Dresden, Hitler's invasion of France, Hiroshima, Concentration Camps... They are all deplorable acts of war in which many people died. War is a deplorable state for all of humanity. The active pursuit of justice is the only known remedy for this condition.

[pinto]

14. I will speak for a loved pacifist, now dead. He said the only true battle

was to not fight. Blanket statement.

I'd ask the what if's...

No go. "I will not fight. There is only one answer."

I still miss him.

[buddhamama]

10. i'm not a true pacifist

non-violence is a personal philosophy
for myself, my non-re/action to life.

in a larger context though, sometimes it is necessary.
defeating Hitler/fascism was one those times.

[indigobusiness]

11. WWII stinks ...like all wars

I'm suspicious of its origin and prosecution.

Remember, it is the victors that write the history.

Both of the WWs could've been avoided.


THOU SHALT NOT KILL.

[BeFree]

12. Had nothing to do with D-day

Happened well before my time, eh?

As for pascifism, just ask yourself this: If all humans were pascifist would there ever be another war?

As others have stated here - concerning D-day - one must examine the failures of diplomacy that led to the war. From the gleanings of my history readings, I found there were many a failure and many a non-pascifist that contributed to the war beginning. I doubt that any pascifist were part of the problem, although surely some were falsely blamed. Peacekeepers make easy targets, yes?

[El Supremo]

15. The US, France, Britain and Italy hold most of the responsibility for WWII

If they had just accepted Wilson's 14 points. If Congress has accepted the League of Nations.

The Treaty of Versailles caused WWII. After that, there was no way out and D Day and the Bomb were predestined.

Now look where we are in Iraq. We can't pull out.

Diplomacy is the only answer. But not backed up by sword rattling. Backed up by economic reward.

[starroute]

16. Hitler was promoted and built up by the Bushes and their friends

Not so different from Saddam in that regard. First they create their "tame" dictators, and then they discover they can't keep them under control.

William Stamps Farish Sr., president of Standard Oil, actually gave the Nazis patents for creating artificial rubber and gasoline from coal while hiding them from the US Navy. Without those patents, Hitler's war machine would have sputtered to a halt long before D-Day.

Violence is common to all human societies, but war is not. Wars -- like crimes -- occur only when someone calculates that the potential profits justify the possible risks. Change that calculus, and wars will cease.

[Heyo]

18. They said on Discovery earlier...

That George H.W. served about 200 days in Europe fighting the Germans in WW2.. I have never heard of this.. is this true?

Heyo

[quaker bill]

20. He was shot down.

He was a pilot in WWII and was shot down. There is a history channel show on the subject.

[Heyo]

23. Interesting....

Now that you mention it I may have heard that..years ago.. I always have Discovery or History Channel on in the background, so somtimes I catch half of something here and there..

Heyo

[seabeyond]

17. the question for the true pacifist

if you were given site of all hitler would do, the millions that would die, and you had the chance to end hios life before he came into power,

would you

if your are a pacifist, and say yes..............

[quaker bill]

19. This is the Dietrich Bonhoffer question.

And as a religious person and a pacifist he answered it. His answer was to join in the conspiracy to assasinate Hitler. It was nearly successful. He was executed for his role in it.

[Just Me]

21. I was a strict pacifist until my son was born.

I maintain my passion as an advocate for non-violent resolution.

However, if anyone threatened the life of my son,...I would do anything within my power to protect him.

That being said,...once the nazi violence had been allowed to escalate to the point it did,...even as a former pacifist,...I stand firm in my belief that defensive actions had to be taken for the sake of humanity.

[gratuitous]

22. What does being a non-pacifist have to do with your son?

Sorry, but I don't understand your statement that if someone threatened your son's life, you would do anything to protect him. Couldn't you call the cops? Try to disarm an intruder, or scare him away? Pacifist doesn't mean passive. Pacifist means to be incredibly active, oftentimes long before those who believe in war as a solution are ready to get off their duffs and do anything.

Once you start from the premise that all war is sin, you become a lot more sensitive to acts of injustice and inequity that lead to violence.