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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:03 PM
Original message
I found this on FR and was amazed! it must have been a troll posting
Edited on Wed Jun-09-04 08:12 PM by AZDemDist6
it's a bit long, but worth the read..

Help me with my brother's liberal screed
my e-mail | my brother


Posted on 06/09/2004 5:48:57 PM PDT by tiki


I apologize for the length of this e-mail. I keep getting forward from everyone espousing various political views and decided to put my own into print.

Individual Rights and Fiscal Responsibility: Or How An Old Republican became a Damn Liberal Democrat.


It is the 60th anniversary of D-Day and on the History Channel I am watching young men die to protect what they believe in i.e. to protect freedom and the American way. This, of course, got me thinking of just exactly “What are freedom and the American way”? This led me to wonder de integro about the current state of politics in America, which in turn led me to contemplate the different political parties.


I am basically an apolitical person. Oh, I vote most of the time. It is just that I don't get too involved in the day to day running or even monitoring of political events. I, like so many others, find politics boring and mundane. I have always expected, even though I realize quite naively, that "things" will “run themselves” as they should. That people, whether elected or appointed, will do what they should do because that is what you are supposed to do. After all, one definition of democracy is that more than half the people must be right more than half the time. A democracy cannot work if people do not do what they are supposed to do. For example, every April 15th the average citizen tells the government what they owe in taxes: not the other way around. In other words, I expect my fellow Americans to do what is "right". Now, it is not even necessary that what they think is "right" is what I think is "right". That's how democracy works. With this in mind let me make some observations about our two major political parties.


In 1966 I registered, much to my father's dismay, as a Republican. I did this because I was, and am, a great believer in the rights of the individual. I believe that no one, government, church or any other group has the right to make me behave a certain way. I don’t mind suggestions, actually I do but I am willing to put up with them, I just want the final decision to be my own. In other words I do not need a mother. I already have one and usually ignore her advice too: sorry mom.


I have always believed that “he who governs less, governs best”. At a reductio ad absurdum level, I still believe we should be able to drive around with a beer in our lap as I did when I grew up. I believe there should be a legal limit to how much you can drink and still drive but until I reach that limit I should be able to do whatever I want. I believe I should be able to take any drug I want, have sex with whomever I want (as long as it is mutually acceptable) and in general do any thing that does not adversely affect someone else’s rights. It is my soap and my body and I should be able to wash it any way I want!


Now, I know that this is a slippery slope. My right to swing my arm ends at your nose. Unfortunately, not all determinations are this easy and it is the legitimate responsibility of the government, acting as a neutral third party, to establish these limits. That is the true duty and responsibility of a government. To judiciously set limits. I realize I must give up some rights because of the overlap of some of these areas. I am willing to put up with this curtailment of rights in the name of society as long as the areas of overlap are appropriate and kept to a minimum.


The second, but less important reason that I registered Republican is that I was a fiscal conservative. I still am in most ways, but as I have grow older I have began to look at things in a different light. I have begun to believe that what is conservative in the short run may not actually be conservative in the long run. Spending a small amount of money at the right time may save a lot, or in the case of capitalism generate a lot, in the future. In other words, I have come to the belief that in a democracy it is wise to invest in people. If a democracy only works because of the people then it is the appropriate job of the government, the managing arm of a democracy, to invest in its people. As the motto of the state of New Mexico says “ crescit eundo “ it grows as it goes. Empowering and helping the needy citizens in a democracy will, in the long run, help everyone. At the risk of turning the entire idea into a cliché, “a stitch in time saves nine”.


Now, you are saying, another slippery slope. I agree. Where do we draw the line between “investing in the people” and “enabling inappropriate behavior”? How do we separate lending a hand from a handout? This is a thorny and sometimes subjective problem. However, as Caesar would say “ abusus non tollit usum”, i.e. abuse is not an argument against proper use.


Welfare is, in many ways, very much like a large WPA project. Most of the money actually goes to the middle class people that hand it out. The system itself takes most of the money to run itself. But this is not necessarily bad when done appropriately. It ultimately makes for a stable middle class, which is after all, the backbone of any successful nation. It puts money into the hands of the middle class where circulation of said money begets more money! It also gives even the poorest in our society a reason to “buy into” and protect that society. This stability is a very small price to pay for the limited abuses. Few countries on this earth have the stability of our great nation. Besides, unfortunately, the average CEO now awards himself millions of dollars in salary, because he can, from a company he does not even own! Talk about abuse!


When I registered to vote in 1966 it was the Republican Party that more closely represented these viewpoints. The two main party platforms of that party were that the role of government and government spending should be kept to a minimum. This most closely coincided with my beliefs so in my early years I voted mainly (but not always) for the Republican candidate. Unfortunately things have changed mightily since 1966.


Currently, the Republican Party is in a stranglehold from the religious right. Because of this they are no longer the party of individual rights. Given their way they would stop us from doing almost everything. The damn blue noses would make us give up drinking if they could, but so far they have not been successful, so instead they continue to harass us to death with DWI and other anti-alcohol legislation. Now, there is even a nationwide seat belt law for you and your passengers: click it or ticket...they can add “stick it” as far as I am concerned. I will wear my freaking belt if I want to. It’s my freaking head and as an adult in a democracy I am allowed to do stupid things if I want. Now, before you give me that tired old argument that I may incapacitate myself and be a burden on you, tough shit. That is one of those things you have to put up with to live in a democrat society. That is not sufficient justification for you to curtail my rights and force your beliefs and agendas on me.


The fact that I put myself at risk doesn’t give you the right to keep me from hang gliding, riding my motorcycle, with or without my helmet, being a maniac on my ATV or jet ski or any of the 100 other things I choose to do that someone may not want me to do. Unfortunately, because of numerical superiority the government can, and more increasingly the conservatives (AKA the Republican Party) do, try to stop me from doing all sorts of things they don't want me to do. The government may be able to fine and punish me, but that doesn’t make it right. Because a songbird sings prettier when it is blind is not sufficient reason to pluck out its eyes.


I haven’t even gotten into pro-choice and the plethora of other decisions that have been or would be taken away from me; stem cell research, genetic engineering, assisted suicide. One of the major differences between the United States and the Middle East is the separation of church and state. If the conservatives had their way I would not even be allowed to teach evolution in my science class. I would have to teach their Christian fairly tale of Creation in my science class as if it were science. The U.S. Attorney General, John Ashcroft, is a fundamentalist Christian. He has tried in every way to inject Christian beliefs into the political arena. He threatened Oregon with loss of fund because of their laws on assisted suicide. He, along with G.W. Bush, have given millions of US taxpayers dollars to church supported charities that push the Christian agenda.


Muslims do not separate church and state. Their religion and their politics are inexorably intertwined. Our country was based on separating the two and until recently we were pretty good about it. Christian fundamentalist, like the Muslims would have us mix the two. Hell, even the Pope got into the act and said Catholic politicians must incorporate Christian ideas into their politics. In fact, some priests have refused John Kerry communion because he is pro-choice. The tyranny of mixing government and religion is so pervasive and pandemic in world history that you would think we would have learned by now to avoid that petard. Not the religious zealots of this current administration. They would have us back in the Middle Ages along with the Muslims.


Now lets look at the money. The Republican Party, the former fiscal party, now spends more then any Democrat every thought of spending. I am including a graph here to show the spending of the different presidents since 1976.


As you can see, starting with Jimmy Carter in 1977, the National Debt was starting downward and was around $90 billion. It rose dramatically starting with Ronald Reagan in 1981and by 1985 was $280 Billion! An increase of 300%. George Bush continued the trend and by 1991 the debt had risen to over $430 billion! Almost 5X’s that of Carter, and 2X that of even the free spending Reagan!


Clinton, following all modern democrats reduced the debt. George W. has even managed to outspend his father. Given the war in the Middle East the estimated debt by 2006 is expected to be $600 billion!


It is still true that Republicans will never invest in the people but give them a weapon system, any weapon system and they will spend like crazy! I wouldn’t mind it if more of the money actually went to the American soldier. I have always stood squarely behind military personnel. My father spent 21 years in the USAF. He became a Canadian citizen and went to North Africa with the RAF so he could fight for democracy before we even got into WWII. When we got into the war he came back into our Army Air Corp. He won the Distinguished Flying Cross, numerous Purple Hearts, at least 14 other awards and decorations and was a Disabled American Veteran. He was in seven major (by definition someone must die for a plane crash to officially be listed a major) plane crashes. In the last one he was the only survivor of a crew of seven. He received a check for $90 a month from the government for his disabilities every month he ever lived. What a welfare sponge! Hell we could have spent that money on a weapons system! And that is currently one of the chief differences in the two parties. The average GI never sees the money the republicans spend. The average private is eligible for welfare! The money goes for some weapons system with cost overruns that are higher than most 3rd world countries Gross National Product.


The Republican Party was the party that defended personal liberties and fiscally responsibility, at least in 1966. No more. The roles of the two parties have totally reversed. It is now the Democrats that stand for personal liberties and fiscal responsibility. My aims are the same; it is the parties that changed.


I was recently forwarded an e-mail that ran down John Kerry. You know, he is that guy that won the Silver Star in Nam. They ran the man down because of all of the weapon systems he had voted against. It sure guaranteed him my vote.


And that my friends, is how an old conservative goes from republican to democrat.


comments anyone?
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Really interesting post..
Surprised they allowed it at FR.

I agree with a lot of the points made, because I followed a similar journey.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. they used the old troll trick of "help me with this email
ROFL
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West Coast Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. My thought exactly!
I guess some DUers have decided to give the Freeps a taste of their own medicine.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. Please post a link!
I love it!
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. argghhhh ok I'll go find it <shudder> here it is
Edited on Wed Jun-09-04 09:18 PM by AZDemDist6
edit to add: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1150793/posts

there are a few more posts over there, one especially listing all the wars Democratic Presidents have got us into before praising Bush to the skies
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squidbro Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. Religious fanaticism is evil, but bent on taking power
Perhaps there is still hope for our nation.

It is my own position that the religious right and observant catholics would stop at nothing to gain control of the most powerful nation on the planet.

Hence, we can save the Iraqis from the tyranny of Saddam, but introduce them to the new tyranny of Rumsfeld and Ashcroft.

I thought that the United States was better than this.

I for one am not ready to go back to the days of the Spanish inquisition.

However, now that shrub and his band of fanatics from the religious right have taken over, I fear that they aren't ready to give that power back, even if legally elected out of office. That is, if they even let us have elections in the first place.
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DustMolecule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. .
Edited on Wed Jun-09-04 08:45 PM by DustMolecule
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. Great Letter
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. I've made the same point here before.
But not nearly as articulate and developed as this missive. This guy is absolutely spot on.
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. This works for me!
I wrote a similar letter to FR that was shorter and had supporting facts, but was totally respectful. They banned me faster than you can say "BOO!"
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Parties Changed, Not me
I guess I'm just old enough to have seen the Pubs after that party changed, because this is the way I've seen the parties most of my young life:

Pubs have always wanted to direct me how to live, love, or die. Dems have more of a "hey, whatever, everybody is different" and "we're all in this together" attitude.

Ya know, that guy's missive is gonna have to be spread around, eh?

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