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kispoko Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:35 PM
Original message
o'reilly says reagan spent 6 billion on aids
and as well, that that was the most they spent on any single disease.


now, i'll take the odds on o'reilly being o'reilly here, so can anyone provide evidence to support this claim, or any to support my inclination of going with the odds of o'reilly just making more shit up?
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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. You can not give evidence to something that did not happen
Just ask G.W. Bush!
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warrior1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. I found this
Edited on Wed Jun-09-04 08:49 PM by warrior1
wasn't easy

http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock200312030913.asp

Source: Congressional Research Service


I'm not sure if it's true as it's a ronnie lover site.
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kispoko Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. ahhhh
Edited on Wed Jun-09-04 09:15 PM by kispoko
here's a good link from that national review page, surprisingly, which i wouldn't be surprised if it destroyed their case in actuality:

http://www.fas.org/spp/civil/crs/96-293.pdf


apparently reagan spent under 3 billion in discretionary funding, but, somehow they attach another 3 billion in total. is that fairly attributable to reagan?


as well, the other point made about it being more than was spent on any single disease, needs to be looked into as well...... shouldn't be too hard..... yeah?
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swag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. so you're the one who watches that show.
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. The Truth About Reagan And AIDS By Michael Bronski, January 2004
Edited on Wed Jun-09-04 08:54 PM by pinto
<snip>

In practical terms this meant AIDS research was chronically underfunded. When doctors at the Centers for Disease Control and the National Institute for Health asked for more funding for their work on AIDS, they were routinely denied it. Between June 1981 and May 1982, the CDC spent less than $1 million on AIDS, but $9 million on Legionnaire’s Disease. At that point over 1,000 of the 2,000 AIDS cases reported resulted in death; there were fewer than 50 deaths from Legionnaire’s Disease. This drastic lack of funding would continue through the Reagan years.


more


http://www.zmag.org/ZMagSite/Jan2004/bronskipr0104.html

(on edit, obviously early in the epidemic. I'll look for more stats, and would suggest checking out Health and Human Services and CDC records for funding allocations. They're public record).


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warrior1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I found the place oliely got his info
http://www.theage.com.au/letters/

snip

a letter...

Reagan was no 'AIDS villain'

David McDonald's views ("AIDS villain", 9/6) are common among the anti-Reagan Left.

But what did Reagan actually do? Every Reagan budget from 1982 onwards involved spending on HIV research. In total, Reagan's administration spent $5.7 billion on HIV. Doesn't look like "atrocious inaction" or a desire to have AIDS "run its due course" to me.

What did Reagan actually say? In September 1985, Reagan said AIDS was "a top priority with us". He mentioned AIDS five times in his 1986 State of the Union address. Seems like Reagan's "steadfast refusal, until 1987, to acknowledge AIDS" wasn't quite so steadfast.

What did Reagan actually think about gays and lesbians? In 1978, he opposed a California voters' initiative to prevent gays and lesbians from teaching in schools. The proposition was defeated. Later Reagan became the first president to allow an openly gay couple to sleep over at the White House. Looks like he was happy to leave gays and lesbians alone to live their private lives in private.

These facts might be inconvenient for Mr McDonald. But if he believes it is his job to comment in a public newspaper as the representative of gay and lesbian students, he doesn't have the luxury to ignore them.
Perry Herzfeld, Caulfield North

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comsymp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Or from Podhoretz at the NYPost-
Scroll to (almost) the bottom on this CG thread:
http://www.capitolgrilling.com/cgi-
First link is to Podhoretz:
bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/11951/6.html


Second link is to REALLY good info on the history of Governmental action on AIDS:
http://www.thebody.com/encyclo/presidency.html
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. I saw a part of that debunked
Edited on Wed Jun-09-04 09:34 PM by party_line
Someone is claiming the mention of AIDS in Reagan's SOTU, like in that article, but it wasn't there. There was a memo follow up or something that mentions it, but nothing in the speech. There was a link to the text, I believe. If I run across it again, I'll post it.

I did find this in the WP, saying AIDS wasn't mentioned at all in any speech until '88:

snip>
And the administration showed indifference to an emerging AIDS crisis in the early 1980s. By the time Reagan delivered his first speech on the epidemic in May 1988 -- about eight months before he left office -- the disease had been diagnosed in more than 36,000 Americans, and 20,849 had died.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26306-2004Jun8.html

The subject did make his spokesman think he was Henny Youngman-

http://americablog.blogspot.com/archives/2004_06_06_americablog_archive.html#108681568783523170

Edit- I found it and there is a link to the text:

Reagan Revisionists at the National Review

NO MENTION OF AIDS IN THE 1986 STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS
Fact: AIDS is not mentioned in ANY of the seven Reagan State of the Union addresses

http://glassfrequency.blogspot.com/2004_06_01_glassfrequency_archive.html#108667384537850304
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warrior1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. dup
Edited on Wed Jun-09-04 08:53 PM by warrior1
.
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swag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. The Z Magazine author doesn't prove his point
Edited on Wed Jun-09-04 09:20 PM by swag
I don't think comparison between Legionnaire's Disease funding and AIDS funding in 1981 - 1982 is terribly valuable. Legionnaire's Disease was discovered in 1976, and AIDS wasn't identified until 1980. Public awareness of Legionnaire's disease and subsequent funding of research had had time to ramp up by 1981 (Legionnaire's hit with a public bang in 1977, and AIDS was largely unknown in the US even in 1982 (I recall rumblings in the Village Voice in 1982/1983, when earlier there had been stories on a mysterious pneumonia which many suspected were caused by poppers or fisting or any number of other things - it just seemed like a lot of gay men were sick or dying from the same thing).

When AIDS was discovered in 1980, more than a half-million in the US were already infected, so a hefty death-rate at the onset (I only reference this because it was referenced as a point of comparison in the Z mag article) is to be expected, but the relatively small number of deaths in the first outbreak of Legionnaire's created a larger initial explosion in the public consciousness, as evidenced in an excerpt from a history of that disease:

"In July 1976, the American Legion held a convention at the Bellevue-Stratford Hotel in Philadelphia to celebrate the country's bicentennial. Within two days after the start of the event, one veteran after another became ill with an acute pneumonia illness. Ultimately, 221 patients were stricken, and 34 patients eventually died of this mysterious epidemic which came to be known as Legionnaires' Disease.

There was pandemonium once word hit Congress and the White House because the government feared the epidemic to be the beginning of an influenza pandemic known as the Swine Flu, which was already racing through Asia. President Ford was so frightened he even signed the National Swine Flu Immunization Program of 1976, to ensure mass immunization for all American citizens, however, the Swine Flu possibility was soon excluded."

http://justice.loyola.edu/~klc/BL472/Legionnaire/history.html

I should probably elaborate more about historical context and the much more gradual incubation of the AIDS epidemic in the public mind, but I guess it's sort of a silly point to belabor.

I believe that AIDS research was underfunded for years, and that Reagan and his minions were neglectful, but I also think that the Z Mag datapoints are misleading and not illustrative of what was occuring during that era.

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minkyboodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. kick
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. A few commentaries on the subject...
Edited on Wed Jun-09-04 09:12 PM by punpirate
... after a quick search:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/06/08/EDG777163F1.DTL

http://www.thebody.com/encyclo/presidency.html

The above cites Reagan-Bush "fiscal austerity" on AIDS.

From what I can gather, spending on AIDS in Reagan's first year in office was $1 million. In 1988, it was $534 million, labelled as a 28% increase over the prior year, so 1987 would have around $417 million. My guess is that funding rose fairly steadily between 1982 and 1987, so one could guess that in that five-year time period, perhaps it averaged $200 million per year. All in all, perhaps $1.9 billion was spent in the Reagan years on HIV/AIDS research and education.

There is a chart showing actual spending, but I find only references to it, rather than the chart itself.

On edit, I should add that several sources indicate that Reagan's budgets were always less than what was actually appropriated--there were supplemental bills made to increase funding, mostly for the purposes of not shorting other NIH research programs, which the Reaganites consistently suggested--they seemed to think that moving money from other research programs to AIDS research was fiscally prudent (and probably thought, as well, that such was a good back-door approach to killing AIDS funding).

Cheers.
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Watch the Movie And the Band Played On
There lies your truth ! Starring Alan Alda.
They had to get a rich rich rich socialite contributor who had
gotten Aids through a transfusion just to get him to agree to put forth an effort to get Blood screened.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. This might help some. (from a 1992 article)
The Myth of “Too Much Spending on AIDS”

A popular notion in the media is that too much is spent on AIDS research, to the detriment of people suffering from other life-threatening illnesses. Proponents argue that more is going to AIDS than to cancer and heart disease, despite the apparent fact that greater numbers of people die from these diseases. A related claim is often made which argues that AIDS, unlike cancer and heart disease, is a behavioral problem which could be solved by behavior change, without massive research expenditures.

These arguments have always played well among those who have sought to blame people with AIDS for their illness, but they have recently made inroads among people who are otherwise sympathetic to the problem of AIDS. The debate pits people with AIDS against those suffering from other life-threatening illnesses.

This “divide and conquer” strategy helps no one except those who wish to preserve the federal government’s pitifully low level of spending for the health of the American people in general—which is the real problem. But most importantly, a careful examination reveals that these arguments are based on false and misleading information. Unfortunately, too few people have adequate access to the real facts, which are presented here:

1. It is not true that more is spent on AIDS than cancer. Federal spending on cancer well exceeds that spent on AIDS—by several hundred million dollars, according to Bush Administration budget figures for 1992 and 1993. There is no honest debate on this point, only misinformation.
2. The amount spent testing treatments for AIDS is shockingly small. Although the Administration has frequently claimed that $4 billion is spent annually on AIDS research, this figure is false. It includes all federal dollars spent in any way remotely related to AIDS, of which only a fraction are actual research dollars. Congress believes it is spending just under $1 billion annually on AIDS research, but this figure is also misleading as it includes many expenditures that play little or no role in the search for a cure.

For patients, perhaps the most meaningful definition of AIDS research is the amount spent testing treatments in people. In 1991, this figure amounted to approximately $150 million dollars, and the figure for 1992 is little different. This includes funding for the AIDS Clinical Trials Group (ACTG), the NIH’s own clinical studies, the Community Trials Program, and special funds earmarked for Pediatric AIDS. Some aspects of this funding, such as that for the ACTG, have actually diminished for 1992, resulting in the closing of several important research centers. Important therapeutic options go untested year after year because of inadequate funding.
3. Unlike cancer and heart disease, AIDS is an infectious disease requiring special costly expenditures. AIDS research requires funding large, nationwide “population studies” which track the history and spread of the infectious disease throughout the country. These are among the most expensive kinds of studies. The need for similar studies in cancer and heart disease is greatly diminished because they are not infectious. Thus, comparisons of funding between AIDS and the other health problems is unfairly biased.
4. AIDS has not “plateaued” as critics charged. The first 100,000 cases of AIDS accumulated over the first 10 years of the epidemic . The total reached 200,000 less than 2 years later. This hardly sounds like a disease which has plateaued. The most conservative estimates show an annual growth rate of nearly 40%, with triple digit growth in some subpopulations. Almost all sources believe that these figures underestimate the real rate, especially among the poor, women, and minorities due to poor reporting and continued discrimination. The growth is slowing only among gay men—a tribute to the success of their efforts and years of education programs. Worse yet, these figures only count the most serious stage of the disease (AIDS), while ignoring the millions who are HIV-infected. Yet we know that the disease is routinely progressive. The majority of those infected will develop AiDS within 12 years and most scientists believe all will eventually do so. In contrast, the rate of heart disease is shrinking, not growing, as are some forms of cancer. While some forms of cancer are on the rise, this is most likely the result of better testing and reporting programs.
5. AIDS is a new and rapidly spreading disease, while deaths from cancer and heart disease are stable or declining. We are burdened today with funding the necessary basic research of a new disease. These early research costs for cancer and heart disease were borne generations ago. Federal dollars have been spent on cancer and heart disease for decades, when nothing was spent on AIDS, but critics of AIDS funding count only the current expenditures for these other illnesses.
6. AIDS is primarily a disease of the young, striking young men and women in their prime, as weil as their children. The majority of deaths from heart disease occur in the elderly, as do most deaths from cancer. Although these illnesses also strike younger people, they do so at a far lower rate. When death rates are compared in specific age groups, the picture changes dramatically, with AIDS often being the larger killer of young men and women in the big cities. Crude comparisons which lump all cancer and heart disease patients in a single group without regard for age make no distinction between the inevitable effects of aging and the onset of disease in otherwise healthy individuals with long life lifespans ahead of them.
7. Although they remain serious problems, major progress has already been made against heart disease and cancer. Some cancers are routinely cured with early intervention, and treatment provides extended life in many others. Similarly, there are useful treatments for most forms of heart disease which permit many of those afflicted to live long and useful lives. Even heart transplant patients, for example, have a greater average life expectancy than the typical AIDS patient.
8. AIDS is no more a “behavioral disease” than many forms or cancer and heart disease. Few would seriously dispute the links between smoking and lung disease, dietary habits and some forms of heart disease, exposure and skin cancers, etc. As a society, we must resist as inhumane and immoral any effort to blame the victims of any disease for their illness. We must renew efforts to educate people about the behavioral links to many illnesses, but most importantly, we must treat all who are ill with compassion and kindness. This message is common to virtually all major religions and philosophies.

No, the problem is not that too much money is being spent on AIDS. On the contrary, there is still far too little being spent on AIDS research. The problem is that the government spends far too little on health research overall, including AIDS, heart disease, and cancer. The American people must resist the divisive effort to pit one disease group against another. But we must always resist the temptation to compare one disease against the other, simply because such comparisons are so often dealing with “apples and oranges“. Instead, people fighting for all those afflicted with life-threatening illnesses must band together and seek a larger pie for all and resist the pressure to fight each other over the meager scraps falling from the Federal table.


Plus see this thread about what's going on RIGHT NOW:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1748773
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kispoko Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-04 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
15. kick
:kick:
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auburnblu Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-04 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Saw an article with Bono telling the EU to boost AIDs spending
Give Bono credit for calling on the EU to live up to their pledges for AIDs funding in Africa. I would love to see the EU step up and help put the breaks on this disease which is just devastating Africa. I know there are some that just want to bitch about the U.S. not doing enough, that's fine. But let's also bitch at the EU, Japan, South Korea, China and hell the UN for not doing more to help.
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