Kerry on C-SPAN - middle class?

[Michael Costello]

These top Democrats are so uninspiring on television. The other week I was watching C-SPAN - Max Cleland gave a great introduction to Tom Daschle, who immediately said something about rich and working class Americans working together to build a better America or some crap that made my stomach heave and I remembered he was in the DLC. Quite a letdown from the great Cleland introduction, he was wise to have Cleland talk so long.

I just watched Kerry on C-SPAN. He was talking to the New Jersey AFL-CIO on the economy. He talked about the need for a strong military - with the US having a military larger than the world's 2nd through 11th largest militaries combined I don't really see why my tax dollars should fund that, especially considering the horror and evil the US military is directed to cause from everywhere from Iraq to Haiti to Colombia to Yugoslavia.

He also repeatedly mentioned how police and firefighters protect America. Sorry, I'm a white white collar worker, but when I think police I think the man who comes to evict me from my house when I'm laid off, or who harrasses black motorists or sometimes shoots them. I could do with less police as well.

Then he talked about the middle class. What the hell is the middle class? I am a white collar worker yet this offends me. I want to hear about the working class, not the damned middle class that Republicans and DLC Democrats have helped destroy over the past few decades. I don't even know what middle class means, although I presume undocumented Mexican workers and poor blacks in the ghettoes are not part of it.

Kerry has an OK voting record historically so I'm confident he will do some good things if and when he's elected. It's a shame we have two rich Skull and Bones patricians (Kerry and Bush) running, it's obvious Kerry has never had to deal with worrying about putting food on the table, although I'm sure he'll push the standard Democrat stuff which might do some good. He also told the audience at one point they could clap, which sounded odd.

The only part of the speech that I thought was good was when he talked about the Homestead strike and how workers have died to make a little bit more money in the US. The rest was acceptable, with the few parts I didn't like mentioned above. The middle class, what the hell does that mean? Despite being a white collar worker, I always feel like I'm about to be sold out when I hear that phrase. I read an article recently aimed at white collar middle managers saying they would be better off when white collar worker jobs would be shipped to India. It makes me feel more like I'm at the top of the working class heap being attacked by the upper middle class, with any lower middle class destroyed, which isn't that bad. Most of these modernly used class definitions are meaningless in the gobbledygook of corporate media anyway.

[shraby]

1. Maybe you should read

Bush's resume in an earlier post. Would you rather have him again?

[NMDemDist2]

2. the middle class was built by strong unions

and America's factories

the white collar workers never organized and they are paying for it today. I can say this since my husband lost his job after 16 years only to have it offered back to him the same day by a "contractor" at 1/3 the salary and no benefits

i wonder when the corporate bosses will realize that by gutting the middle class, there will be no one to buy homes, $40,000 SUV's and $100 Nikes. I can just about guarantee it won't be in Indians or Filipinos

[Michael Costello]

4. There will be no one to buy homes, $40,000 SUV's and $100 Nikes

It's not that there will not be anyone to buy all of these things in the future, there is no one to buy them now, one of the main reasons for the sluggish economy in the past years. GE former CEO Jack Welch has said worldwide overproduction (which on the flip side could be called underconsumption) is a major problem, and has been saying that for a while. Actually, Keynes was talking about how that was a problem in the 1930's, and Marx talked about it decades before that. So that is a problem but it's been one with us for a while. In my opinion it's one of the major factors of recessions, although there are other economic points of view.

[NMDemDist2]

5. interesting

that is has been talked about that long, what would be even more interesting is to see when ever we had an "underconsumption" issue what happened to society to bring us out of it?

The 30's we were saved by the military build up in WWII
WWI before that
where did the labor movement fit in?

If I was in school, I'd love to research that and do a paper on it

[Michael Costello]

6. labor...

My opinion is the labor movement decreases the number of hours worked, and increased wages for workers. With less labor hours, less is produced, causing less of a problem. With higher wages, more can be bought, also helping with the problem.

I think a lot of the standard economic stuff put out nowadays is wrong, personally. I think especially in discussion of what the underlying factors moving everything are. I think everyone from Paul Krugman to Jack Welch accurately describe what is happening on the surface from time to time, but when you start looking for what is causing this phenomena, that is where I think the propaganda starts getting very thick.

For example, most economists prior to 1889 said that value came from the work and resources devoted to creating it. I agree with this myself. However, in 1889, an Austrian school economist, Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk said that wasn't so, and that has become the establishment view henceforth.

Then again, Bush's supply side policies are taken seriously by virtually no major economist, even conservative ones. Most economists, from liberal to conservative agree that tax cuts help growth, however "supply side" economics claims the beneficial effect will be 2, 3, 4, 5 or more times the effect that most respectable economists say. Despite claims, these tax cuts do not boost the economy as promoted, they're more in putting money in the pocket of whoever's taxes are being cut.

[dumpster_baby]

12. "white collar workers never organized and they are paying for it today"

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly!

[OKNancy]

3. Kerry was talking about the working class

and his message is to them and the middle... because EVERYONE thinks of themselves as the middle class, even if they aren't.

[wurzel]

9. We never had a large "middle class"

What we had was the most affluent working class in the world.

[AP]

7. That was the best speech I've heard Kerry give.

And that was the consensus among people I talked to.

Class is exactly the right issue to talk about (it's what Republicans are all about -- and it's class mobility they're destroying by destroying the value of labor).

[wurzel]

8. I agree

Especially the point about wages now being the lowest portion of GDP in our history. I think he should flesh that out.

[Cocoa]

10. that's how you think of police?

that's fine, but I think that is a relatively uncommon view of the police.

[UTUSN]

11. Headline SELECTED for DU Dissention

Am starting a "headline-SELECTED-for-DU-dissention" tickler file.

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