Inaccuracies in "Bowling For Columbine"

[bleedingedge]

Forgive the newbie nature of this post but I'm curious.

I see a lot mentiond - some in DU, many in op-eds re: "Farenheit 9/11" - about inaccuracies in "Bowling For Columbine". Rarely are these inaccuracies listed in part or full. The only specific one I've heard mentioned is something about how missiles were not actually trucked through Columbine, as Moore suggests early in the film.

What inaccuracies appear in "Bowling For Columbine"?

[BlueJazz]

1. Probably the fact that People from the other...

..side are trying to "Reformulate" the message in the film.

[shoelace414]

2. the ones I remember

lets see.. Moore implyed that Heston made hte cold dead hand speech right after columbine.

Moore implyed that the KKK is the NRA

Moore implyed that the rocket plant made ICBMs

[shoelace414]

3. so!

It's because of the implications.. none of the facts that I remember.

"what? he didn't use that contraction properly, how can you trust anything he says about the preident?"

[el_gato]

6. About those "implications"

The Truth: Lockheed Martin is the largest weapons-maker in the world. The Littleton facility has been manufacturing missiles, missile components, and other weapons systems for almost half a century. In the 50s, workers at the Littleton facility constructed the first Titan intercontinental ballistic missile, designed to unleash a nuclear warhead on the Soviet Union; in the mid-80s, they were partially assembling MX missiles, instruments for the minuteman ICBM, a space laser weapon called Zenith Star, and a Star Wars program known as Brilliant Pebbles.

In the full, unedited interview I did with the Lockheed spokesman, he told me that Lockheed started building nuclear missiles in Littleton and "played a role in the development of Peacekeeper MX Missiles."

As for what's currently manufactured in Littleton, McCollum told me, "They (the rockets sitting behind him) carry mainly very large national security satellites, some we can't talk about." (see him say it here)

Since that interview, the Titan IV rockets manufactured in Littleton have been critical to the war effort in both Afghanistan and Iraq. These rockets launched advanced satellites that were "instrumental in providing command-and-control operations over Iraq...for the rapid targeting of Navy Tomahawk cruise missiles involved in Iraqi strikes and clandestine communications with Special Operations Forces." (view source here).

That Lockheed lets the occasional weather or TV satellite hitch a ride on one of its rockets should not distract anyone from Lockheed's main mission and moneymaker in Littleton: to make instruments that help kill people. That two of Littleton's children decided to engineer their own mass killing is what these guys and the Internet crazies don't want to discuss.
----------------------------

The Truth: Heston took his NRA show to Denver and did and said exactly what we recounted. From the end of my narration setting up Heston's speech in Denver, with my words, "a big pro-gun rally," every word out of Charlton Heston's mouth was uttered right there in Denver, just 10 days after the Columbine tragedy. But don't take my word – read the transcript of his whole speech. Heston devotes the entire speech to challenging the Denver mayor and mocking the mayor's pleas that the NRA "don't come here." Far from deliberately editing the film to make Heston look worse, I chose to leave most of this out and not make Heston look as evil as he actually was.

--------------------------------------

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

[Red_Viking]

10. Have you seen the film?

I mean, the whole thing?

You definitely need to check out Michael Moore's site and read his list of sources for information. No reputable distribution company would send out a film full of lies. The legal risk is too great. Link: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/


Here's his rebuttal regarding the NRA convention:

<snip>

The Truth: Heston took his NRA show to Denver and did and said exactly what we recounted. From the end of my narration setting up Heston's speech in Denver, with my words, "a big pro-gun rally," every word out of Charlton Heston's mouth was uttered right there in Denver, just 10 days after the Columbine tragedy. But don't take my word – read the transcript of his whole speech. Heston devotes the entire speech to challenging the Denver mayor and mocking the mayor's pleas that the NRA "don't come here." Far from deliberately editing the film to make Heston look worse, I chose to leave most of this out and not make Heston look as evil as he actually was.

<snip>

As for the clip preceding the Denver speech, when Heston proclaims "from my cold dead hands," this appears as Heston is being introduced in narration. It is Heston's most well-recognized NRA image – hoisting the rifle overhead as he makes his proclamation, as he has done at virtually every political appearance on behalf of the NRA (before and since Columbine). I have merely re-broadcast an image supplied to us by a Denver TV station, an image which the NRA has itself crafted for the media, or, as one article put it, "the mantra of dedicated gun owners" which they "wear on T-shirts, stamp it on the outside of envelopes, e-mail it on the Internet and sometimes shout it over the phone.". Are
they now embarrassed by this sick, repulsive image and the words that accompany it?

<snip>


:dem:

RV

[bleedingedge]

14. Yeah, I have.

Oddly, it made absolutely zero impression on me. Moore has always been able to get some sort of reaction out of me, ever since "Roger and Me" knocked my political dick in the dirt.

I think that may be because he's almost always coming from a perspective of anger and I respond well to that. "Bowling" seemed more of a lamentation, a little less strident.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there.

[Red_Viking]

4. Check out Michael Moore's site

At michaelmoore.com. He has an entire page dedicated to the "inaccuracies" in BFC. If you hear of one that's not on the page, he invites you to send it in.

Expect to hear all kinds of moans, tooth gnashing, rending of clothing, people throwing ash in their hair, etc, over F9/11. Ignore it as best you can. :)

:dem:

RV

[BlueEyedSon]

7. Link please?

can't find the page you refer to....

[NYCGirl]

9. http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

NT

[BlueEyedSon]

15. thx nycg

regards
bes, a former nycb

[NYCGirl]

5. Here's Moore's response to the "Wacko Attackos"

Entire page:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/


Excerpt:

How to Deal with the Lies and the Lying Liars When They Lie about "Bowling for Columbine" by Michael Moore

One thing you get used to when you're in what's called "the public eye" is reading the humorous fiction that others like to write about you. For instance, I have read in quite respectable and trustworthy publications that a) I'm a college graduate (I'm not), b) I was a factory worker (I quit the first day), and c) I have two brothers (I have none). Newsweek wrote that I live in a penthouse on Central Park West (I live above a Baby Gap store, and not on any park), and the Internet Movie Database once listed me as the director of the Elvis movie, "Blue Hawaii" ( I was 6 at the time the film was made, but I was quite skilled in directing my sisters in building me a snowman). Lately, my favorite mistake is the one many reviewers made crediting the cartoon in "Bowling for Columbine" as being the work of the "South Park" creators. It isn't. I wrote it and my buddy Harold Moss's animation studio drew it.

I've enjoyed reading these inventions/mistakes about this "Michael Moore." I mean, who wouldn't want to fantasize about living in penthouses roughhousing with brothers you never had. But lately I've begun to see so many things about me or my work that aren't true. It's become so easy to spread these fictions through the internet (thanks mostly to lazy reporters or web junkies who do all their research by typing in "key words" and then just repeat the same mistakes). And so I wonder that if I don't correct the record, then all of the people who don't know better may just end up being filled with a bunch of stuff that isn't true.

Of course, it would take a lot of my time to contact all these sites and media outlets to correct their errors and I think it's more important I spend my time on my next book or movie so I just let it ride. But is that fair to you, the reader, who has now been told something that isn't true?

With the unexpected and overwhelming success of "Bowling for Columbine" and "Stupid White Men," the fiction that has been written or spoken about me and my work has reached a whole new level of storytelling. It's no longer about making some simple errors or calling me "Roger" Moore. It is now about organized groups going full blast trying to discredit me by knowingly making up lies and repeating them over and over in the hopes that people will believe them – and, then, stop listening to me.

[FatSlob]

8. There are tons of them.

Ask in the gungeon, they will set you straight! Largely, Moore misrepresented things, and outright lied a few times. His film wasn't really a documentary, and wasn't complete fiction either.

Some of Moore's mis-statements and mistakesare documented at http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
keep in mind that the source is slanted to the right, however, I believe that Mr. Hardy has done a generally good job in documenting Mr. Moore's mistakes.

Mr. Moore is a fantastic film maker. That can't be denied. Occasionally, though, he does misrepresent things. He is a good writer, and a very entertaining speaker also. Whatever he is, he's is "Moore" of an entertainer than a documentor.

[DrWeird]

12. Ah, that websites a bunch of crap.

It calls the six year old black kid that shot his classmate a "thug" and then goes on to say Charleton Heston isn't a racist at all.

[FatSlob]

13. I don't think Heston is racist.

He did march with Dr. King. His politics suck, but he is no racist.

[DrWeird]

17. He blamed the country's high murder rate on minorities.

You can't get much more racist then that.

[FatSlob]

22. When did this happen?

I'm unfamiliar with it.

I must say, though, that in Cincinnati, the vast majority of homicides are black on black. That is for another thread, though.

[DrWeird]

23. In "Bowling for Columbine"

Hey, did you ever see that movie?

[FatSlob]

30. I've seen parts, but never the whole thing.

[DrWeird]

33. Oh, so you've never seen it.

Yet you feel qualified to say it's full of lies.

[Shakespeare]

34. Gee, perhaps you should see the WHOLE thing before slamming it.

I continue to be amazed by people who speak so authoritatively about a film THEY HAVE NOT SEEN.

The "rebuttal" site you list is a load of horseshit, too--Moore addresses this guy's claims quite thoroughly on his own site.

[thebigidea]

35. which makes you highly qualified to pontificate, of course

I look forward to further uninformed opining on subjects you have no knowledge of.

[SemperEadem]

42. well, you think seeing the whole movie before passing judgement on it

might be a better way to approach this topic?

Your credibility is blown now.

[Delano]

16. No six yr. old kid is beyond rehabilitation, but...

The kiddie killer wass hardly a sweet little boy. Most 6 year olds would have the sense to leave the gun alone and call a grownup, not take it to school and KILL a classmate. Moore's film was dishonest in putting all the blame on Dick Clark (rather than Clinton's misguided welfare deform) and none on the irresponsible parents leaving guns around the house.

As for Heston's "racism" - he may have been a racist to you, but he did march with the civil rights movement for desegregation, and was fairly progressive for his generation. By the time he was interviewed for Columbine, he already had one foot in the grave, and didn't seem to be keeping up mentally.

I hate to have to defend Heston, since I disagree completely with his stupid gun opinions, but I see no reason to believe Heston was especially "racist". Do you have some evidence that he was?

Otherwise, I enjoyed "Columbine" a lot, and am REALLY looking forward to F911 - Moore's a great filmmaker, but sometimes I think his passion gets the best of him and compromises his professionalim.

His heart's in the right place and his films are entertaining, so I'm still a fan.

[DrWeird]

19. He blamed the high murder rate on minorities.

And a six-year-old kid is a six-year-old kid.

It was a tragedy of circumstances and shame on you for blaming the kid.

[Delano]

26. Who? Heston?

I'm sorry, I'm not going to be judgmnental of the statements of a senile 80-year old man (who was dead only months later). The fact is that there are much higher murder rrates among minorities. He didn't say "The kid killed the girl because he was black" so I give the codger the benefit of the doubt. Where do people get off expecting a senile old man to be so PC?

The blame is as much on his parents as him, but the fact that he shot a little girl doesn't speak well of his character. I have a 6 year old boy who would never do such a thing. 6 year olds do have an awareness of right and wrong, and should be able to tell the difference between a real gun and a toy. I hope that in a good home environment, his violent tendencies will be brought under control.

The kid was obviously being raised in a sick environment, and needs to be placed in a good home.

A 6 year old obviously should have no legal responsibility for his behavior, but shame on you for acting like a 6 year old shouldn't know that KILLING someone is wrong.

[DrWeird]

29. So then you leave your gun laying out?

Since 6 year olds know they shouldn't play with guns, there's no need to lock them up, right?

"The kid was obviously being raised in a sick environment, and needs to be placed in a good home."

Well, let's see. The family was evicted from their apartment because they couldn't pay rent, so they were temporarily staying at their uncle's house until they could find a new place. While the mother was at work, and the uncle was watching the kids, the kid snuck into his uncles bedroom and took his gun, I'd assume from under the mattress or some such thing.

What, were you thinking it was a crack house or something?

[Delano]

38. Gun on bed = crack house

Anyone who would leave a gun on a bed in house with a small child in it is running a house every bit as screwed up as a crack house, IMO. I wouldn't ever have guns in my house period, especially since I have kids. What kind of message does having guns teach kids? That killing people is a way to resolve disputes. We have pepper spray and baseball bats for self defense.

Would you leave your kids in a house with an uncle like that?

[DrWeird]

39. You just said 6-year-olds were responsible with guns.

The home-owner had no children of his own, and so had no gun cabinets or trigger locks.

Do all of the gun owners you know keep their guns locked away at all times? Doesn't the NRA oppose requiring people to keep their guns locked away?

[Delano]

40. No, I said the kid was not a nice kid.

I think holding 6-year-olds legally responsible for a crime is a ludicrous idea. Obviously they are not capable of the same judgment as an adult. I do, however think that this was a problem kid - that is NOT normal behavior. Whether his violent tendencies are a product of his environment or simply the way he is is something I can't determine from here. You objected to a kid who acted in a VERY thuggish way being called a "thug". That language doesn't bother me. If they started talking about trying the kid as an adult, I'd have a big problem with that.

"The home-owner had no children of his own, and so had no gun cabinets or trigger locks."

He knew there was a kid in the house, and behaved in a very irresponsible way. You unload the gun and put it on the top shelf of the closet.

"Do all of the gun owners you know keep their guns locked away at all times?"

Honestly, I don't associate with gun owners. My whole family is from Texas and none of them have guns, except for my late grandma, who kept a .22 rifle in her basement.

"Doesn't the NRA oppose requiring people to keep their guns locked away?"

I don't know. I don't support the NRA, or handgun ownership for civilians.

[mockmonkey]

43. Side note

I don't believe Heston has died yet.

[SemperEadem]

44. Heston isn't dead

where did you get that?

[Delano]

47. I thought he died about a year ago.

But I can't findd anything on the web to back that up...

[TOhioLiberal]

46. Ummm...

<snip>
I'm sorry, I'm not going to be judgmnental of the statements of a senile 80-year old man (who was dead only months later).

<snip>

Charlton Heston is not dead, (senile maybe). I Googled his name and he wrote a RR 'tribute' on the online version of National Review, dated June 15th.
Link: http://www.nationalreview.com/issue/heston200406150831.asp

[Delano]

48. Yeah, I sw that.

I don't know where I got the idea he was dead.

All I found was an announccement that he had alzheimer's in 2001 - guess that's what confused me. I've been thinking he was dead all this time...

But the point still stands sincce he does have alzheimer's...

[thebigidea]

25. "keep in mind that the source is slanted to the right"

well, thanks for sharing it with us. Feel free to continue giving us more quality information that is slanted to the right - because if there's anything we love at DU, its quality information that is slanted to the right.

[On the Road]

11. I Had Heard That

when Moore was depicted as getting a rifle from the bank for opening up the account, he was actually given a certificate to go to a gun store and get it. However, Moore defends the accuracy of this and all other scenes in the movie. The scenes were shot in the bank at the time.

Actually, I have found one typo in the theatrical release of the film. It was a caption that read, "Willie Horton released by Dukakis and kills again." In fact, Willie Horton was a convicted murderer who, after escaping from furlough, raped a woman and stabbed her fiancé, but didn't kill him. The caption has been permanently corrected on the DVD and home video version of the film and replaced with, "Willie Horton released. Then rapes a woman." My apologies to Willie Horton and the Horton family for implying he is a double-murderer when he is only a single-murderer/rapist. And my apologies to the late Lee Atwater who, on his deathbed, apologized for having engineered the smear campaign against Dukakis (but correctly identified Mr. Horton as a single-murderer!).

I have to be skeptical about the charges against Bowling for Columbine.

[KittyWampus]

20. Doesn't The Bank Clerk SAY They Keep Guns In The Bank?

Just saw movie recently and I think the woman that's helping him SAYS they have the guns in a vault or soemthing.

[KittyWampus]

18. The Only Inaccuracy I Cite Is: Canada Has Diverse Ethnic Population

comparble to the US.

And I wish Mike hadn't said that because it ends up HURTING the point he made earlier in the film...

that the media purposely portray black people in a violent, negative light so that white people would be afraid of them.

Example, his Killer Bees From Africa footage.

Perhaps the high ethnic mix in the US is not the ROOT for gun violence. BUT it's a fact of life that the Media & Corporations use to help instill fear.

It seems that the Media uses minorities and people of color as boogiemen.

[DrWeird]

21. I didn't think he said Canada has an ethnic diversity...

comparably to the US. Although it's got a lot of aborigines, and french canadians, and asians over in BC.

I don't see how it hurts his point, since Canadian media doesn't portray minorites in the negative light that american media does.

[KittyWampus]

24. Yes, Moore Does Essentially Say Canada Has Comparable Minorities

and when he's in the arcade/board walk (?), he makes a point of talking to 2 people of color (one of which is from the US).

He says this to dismiss the notion that ethnic diversity can be a ROOT CAUSE of gun violence.

Ultimately, he detracts from the message that while diversity is not the ROOT CAUSE, the Media uses it as a means to divide people and instill fear of each other.

[DrWeird]

27. I'm still not following.

He states that ethnic diversity is not the root cause of gun violence, it's the media, here look at Canada, they have ethnic minorities to but they don't have gun violence. Doesn't that rather prove the point?

[KittyWampus]

28. Fact: Canada Has Very LITTLE Ethnic Divesity. But Moore Implies They do

using image and words.

This is the one artistic device he uses that I think not only proves inaccurate but hurts his whole thesis.

[DrWeird]

31. They have two official languages.

They don't have a lot of black people, but they sure have ethnic diversity.

[KittyWampus]

32. Then Insert "Racial" Where I Used "Ethnic" :-)

I've wondered if Moore rushed completing Bowling for Columbine and that's why the end (where footage I'm talking about) is put together the way it is.

Anyway, I like the movie and don't consider the issues others raise "inaccuracies".

[DrWeird]

37. OK, racial minorities.

That's, what, about 12% of the Canadian population?

[SidDithers]

41. 43% in Toronto, tho, where Moore did his filming..nt.

Sid

[Az]

49. Some numbers from Canada

Total population 29,639,035
Total visible minority population 3,983,845
Black 662,210
South Asian 917,075
Chinese 1,029,395
Korean 100,660
Japanese 73,315
Southeast Asian 198,880
Filipino 308,575
Arab/West Asian 303,965
Latin American 216,975
Visible minority, not included elsewhere 98,920
Multiple visible minority 73,875

Visible minority population of Canada as a percentage: 13.4%

[SidDithers]

36. I call bullshit...

You made the claim, back it up...

Sid

[Az]

45. Um, just took a drive through Canada and I have to say there were a lot

Anecdotal evidence to be sure but we just drove from Sarnia to Vermont and then Vermont to Montreal. We live across the river from Windsor. My personal experience is that Canada has a very diverse population and in some areas may even be more diverse than America. And this is not just an Asian influx. It was African, Mexican, Asian, the whole rainbow. And there was no where near the level of tension one experiences with such a mix in the US.