Joe Biden Is A Fool

[Jacobin]

On Hardball, just got back from IraqNam and says that the insurgents are having their 'last gasp' and that after June 30, things will get much better.

What is wrong with this man?

Does Smirk have pictures of him in bed with a goat?

What fool could get on TV and say such idiotic and naive things?

[daveskilt]

1. didnt see this...but will give biden the benefit of the doubt

stand up guy usually.

[aquart]

4. Let's say he has good days and bad days.

He also said McCain would make a great VP for Kerry.

[Disturbed]

5. Biden is a mystery to me.

He is inconsistent with his views. He was pushing hard for McCain for VP, which in my view was stupid. McCain is a hard core Conserv. and a hawk. I cannot figure out what Biden's game is.

If Biden knows the following then he is indeed a fool because most Iraqis know the the US will never give Iraq real "democracy". I predict a Mass Uprising against the Occupation mid July. It would be even more apt if it occured on July 4th.


Full Sovereignty?
"Throughout the spring, as hundreds died in the spiraling conflict, as Regime bosses applied their hardcore "anti-terrorist" tortures to innocent bystanders raked up in their occupation nets, as Regime mouthpieces prated endlessly of "liberation" and "sovereignty," Bush viceroy Paul Bremer was quietly signing a series of edicts that will give the United States effective control over the military, ministries -- and money -- of any Iraqi government, for years to come, The Wall Street Journal reports.

Bremer has placed U.S.-appointed "commissions" made up of Americans and local puppets throughout Iraqi government agencies; the ministers supposedly in charge weren't even told of the edicts. These boards "will serve multiyear terms and have significant authority to run criminal investigations, award contracts, direct troops and subpoena citizens," the Journal reports. Any new Iraqi government "will have little control over its armed forces, lack the ability to make or change laws and be unable to make major decisions within specific ministries without tacit U.S. approval, say U.S. officials.


Earlier Bremer edicts laid the Iraqi economy wide open to ruthless exploitation by Bush-approved foreign "investors"; dominance of such key sectors as banking, communications -- and energy -- is already well advanced. The latest dictates aim to ensure that this organized looting goes on, no matter what kind of makeshift "interim government" the United Nations manage to piece together. Bush's plans to build a Saddamite fortress embassy in Baghdad and 14 permanent military bases around the country are designed to provide the knee-breaking "security" for these lucrative arrangements."



http://context.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/05/21/120.html

[Warpy]

2. he's obviously buying the word of the "great experts"

in the administration over the pictures on the telly every night.

I guess he's forgotten how Vietnam progressed.

[Jacobin]

3. HE JUST GOT BACK FROM THERE

Sorry. Didn't mean to shout.


I can't believe this guy is pontificating for the invading whores, torturers and is a sycophant for the fucking tyrants who took over this country.

Has he NO shame?

ANYONE can see this thing is spiralling out of control.

He is a fool

[Reciprocity]

6. He has a great set of teeth.

I was mesmerized by his megawatt smile.

[bemildred]

7. Well paid actors just read their lines.

Making sense is not part of the deal.

[Paradise]

8. without a doubt, the best one-liner on du!

"Does Smirk have pictures of him in bed with a goat?"

rofl!

here's a :toast: to you, Jacobin!

[IronLionZion]

9. He talks out of both sides of his mouth

but in this case I'll give him the benefit of a doubt that he might just be optimistic.

Sometimes he's a stand-up guy, other times I want to kick his sorry ass. That asshole voted against showing the coffins.

[malachibk]

10. Question: Are we supposed to NOT want things to get "better" in Iraq?

Is that the DU line?

US soldiers should die all the way til November so Kerry can win?

That's fucked up.

I think more than enough soldiers have already died and Kerry should be able to win in a landslide because of it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. The things are going to get "better" is to get the hell out.

Now.

[Jacobin]

19. There is a difference between what we might "wish" and reality

That is the major problem with this administration. They cannot tell the difference between their vapid, silly, improbable dreams and what might be likely to be realized in the real world.

Anyone who thinks that IraqNam is not spinning hopelessly out of control BECAUSE we invaded their country without a cause, tortured their people, recklessly shoot civilians, privatized and looted their resources is delusional or a liar or a fool.

I conclude that Biden is a fool.

[kiahzero]

11. Did you turn off your ears after that?

He further explained: This would be the insurgent's big push, because this is the critical point, their pretty much only opportunity to win the country. They're going to expend as much of their resources as they possibly can.

But you know, being intellectually honest would get in the way of your rhetoric, so I understand your lack thereof.

[BillZBubb]

13. If you believe that the insurgents will not strike hard after June 30,

well, I've got some really nice, big bridge you might be interested in purchasing.

Biden is swallowing the NeoCon party line. It's preposterous. They made the same kind of DUMBASS statements about how capturing Saddam would kill off the insurgency. They were dead wrong, as usual.

The insurgents will keep fighting hard long after June 30. What will Biden and the NeoCons blame that on? The coming "elections"?

Biden really should know better, but at times he's a colossal airhead.

[kiahzero]

15. His argument is that they are going to expend their resources

The group has a finite amount of supplies. This being a crucial and tentative stage in the transition, a rational actor may choose to dedicate the vast majority of said resources towards destabilizing the country while they have an opportunity.

He wasn't arguing that they won't strike again, and he clarified that point afterwards. He was arguing that this is the tipping point... if the insurgents dedicate most of their resources towards attacks the next few days and lose, they will be crippled and less able to attack and gather more resources.

Your ad hominem attack brings to mind the old adage, that those in glass houses should not throw stones.

[Jacobin]

23. That's funny

They were saying the same thing six months ago (insurgents about to run out of resources)

What resources do you need to fight an insurgency. A gun, some bullets, some C-4, some pissed off Iraqis willint to risk their lives to kill infidels?

Why do some people think they are about to run out?

[chookie]

26. Agreed

I am not sure why Biden, or others, might think there is any reason to believe that the insurgency will end on July 1.

The only way I see things "calming down" is with the re-establishment of harsh authoritarian rule by the new Iraqi puppet government.

Exactly how the new gov is going to pull this off is unclear, as the new police and military are absurdly unprepared for duty and seem to be outgunned and outmaneuvered by the insurgents.

I really don't see the end of this thing. I think it is foolish to be optimistic -- and that pains me to say. Chaos is going to continue into the forseeable future.

[Tatiana]

28. But they aren't expending their resources.

A YEAR LATER we should have grasped that point. They are being replenished and funded by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, to name a few of our supposed "allies."

[wyldwolf]

30. wait! You have a source...

...showing that they aren't expending their resources and that they are being totally supported in their efforts by outside countries?

[Jacobin]

36. Somehow we need to get the administrators to link to a betting

Paypal deal.

I'd go ten to one on odds for how this occupation is going six months from now.

It is not a "wish" it is a prediction based on reality. We are infidels in a muslim land, we have killed them, tortured them, blown up their country, privatized their assets for our greedy companies and it is quite clear that they will not tolerate it and will die willingly to run us out.

[Tatiana]

41. Honestly, some of the wonderful people here don't use common sense!

You may have been using sarcasm, but I'm sure there's someone who wants to ask that question, seriously.

I mean, why the F*ck haven't they run out of food, ammunition, etc? This is an ORGANIZED, INTELLIGENT, and TECHNOLOGICALLY COORDINATED insurgency. Someone's funding them, housing them, financing them. Why the hell would they stop the cash flow after June 30th?

The insurgency will not stop until the US-led forces are OUT of Iraq.

[Jacobin]

20. Oh. I see, everything will be better after the magic date?

Wow.

All I can say is fucking WOW.

This kind of gullibility is a rare sight indeed on DU

[kiahzero]

Yes, that's precisely what I meant

I think that magically, on July 1, Iraq will become a stable democracy with broad protections of human rights.

:eyes:

Nice straw man, though. Did you make it yourself?

[wyldwolf]

12. What is wrong with what he said?

As Americans, we should hope things get better.

[okieinpain]

14. because it is a lie, it's not going to get better there. that's why

saddam was so sadistic in trying to control the place. the majority are the one's (shiites) that you don't want in control. they are fundies, and will try and make everyone else in that country follow their rules. the others (kurds, and sunnies: saddams folks)have their own problems and will never, ever go along with the shiites ruling over them.

for biden to come back and not tell the truth just screws the dems, because when iraq goes up in flames, the first thing the repugs will roll out is any dem that spoke in favor of bush. what a dumb ass, not you, but biden.

[Jacobin]

21. It's hard to believe

that some posters on DU (not you) are still deluded by SmirkCo's invasion crap.

It's just amazing.

If we can't educate ourselves here to see reality, how in the fuck do we expect that the rest of the country can see through Smirk's constant lies and vote him out?

I'm depressed now.

[kiahzero]

25. There are three options, in terms of expectations

We can hope this get better, stay the same, or get worse.

The previous poster said that we should hope for things to get better. You seem to disagree. So, which of the remaining two do you recommend?

[wyldwolf]

27. I believe he/she wants things to get worse...

more soldier and civilian deaths, more kidnappings, more beheadings... just to make a political point. Just to say, "nah nah, I told you so."

[Jacobin]

31. I guess you are hoping that the Iraqis are successfully repressed

and have the American junta force them into colonial poverty and submission. (Or do you really believe we are there to give them "freedom and democracy?)

We simply differ in our wishes for the world.

[wyldwolf]

53. nope, hoping things get better there for them and for us

[Jacobin]

29. "Hoping" is NOT "doing"

This faith based war nonsense is repubican speak.

We need to deal with reality, that the war is irretrivably lost and get out as soon as we can before more of our citizens are killed, maimed and pyschologically screwed up for life.

I watched as vietnam veterans went off to get killed by the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands maimed and mentally fucked up for life. This same "why don't you wish things would go better" mentality KILLED thousands of americans and millions of vietnamese

ALL FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Wish? I tell you what I wish. I wish our elected officials had the decency, the sense, the courage to do what is right for this country and to stand up to BushCo and try their damnedest to STOP this madness, NOT enable it.

That's my wish.

[kiahzero]

35. What does hoping things get better have to do with that?

I watched as vietnam veterans went off to get killed by the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands maimed and mentally fucked up for life. This same "why don't you wish things would go better" mentality KILLED thousands of americans and millions of vietnamese

Bullshit. It was conservative ideological blinders and a desire not to be seen as "backing down" that caused those deaths, not a hope for things to get better.

Wish? I tell you what I wish. I wish our elected officials had the decency, the sense, the courage to do what is right for this country and to stand up to BushCo and try their damnedest to STOP this madness, NOT enable it.

What do you propose? Fuck over Iraqi citizens one more time? We fucked them once when we supported Saddam at his most brutal, we fucked them over again when we didn't take out the Republican Guard after Gulf War I... I guess one more time wouldn't hurt, would it?

I'm all for standing up to the Bush Administration, but I'm not about to take a stance 180 degrees from theirs, simply to be confrontational.

[Jacobin]

38. I can only assume that you are not old enough to remember Vietnam

I lived through it.

BTW, LBJ was NOT a conservative. He was a liberal. The war escalated under LBJ. He was aided by the same kind of delusional thinking we are seeing right now, today.

It is gutwrenching to see that same thinking going on in my party and even on DU.

These delusions are KILLING PEOPLE.

Nevermind. I guess each generation has to learn these godawful truths for themselves.

[kiahzero]

40. The war was conservative

If a liberal decided to establish Christianity as an official religion, would that suddenly make it a liberal cause?

Please explain how those who disagree with you are either suffering from ideological blinders or a desire to not be seen as "backing down," or, since you disagree with this analysis, explain more clearly what prolonged the Vietnam War, and how those who disagree with you are suffering from the same sort of myopia.

[Jacobin]

44. Dude. Please read some recent american history

Kennedy sent in the advisors.
LBJ sent in hundreds of thousands of troops.

Nixon was elected on a promise to end the war and escalated it further.

I don't think most folks think Kennedy or LBJ were conservative.

Please.

[kiahzero]

46. So, I guess your answer to my question would be yes

Either that, or you don't read anything but my subject lines.

The war, in of itself, was conservative. It doesn't matter who started it. Similarly, it doesn't matter who, in the aforementioned hypothetical, establishes Christianity as an official religion - it's still a conservative position.

[Jacobin]

48. Please

"The war itself was conservative regardless of who started it"

Have a nice life.

This makes NO sense.

[kiahzero]

52. That's because you're not thinking about it

Since you seem to think that the Vietnam War was a liberal cause, explain what tenet of liberalism it is related to? If it were a liberal cause, why were liberals against it and conservatives for it?

You are the one who are making no sense - claiming that the overall ideology of the person taking an action changes the ideology behind the action itself.

If Bush were to decide to actually send the AIDS money to Africa, would that cause suddenly become conservative? If Ted Kennedy were suddenly for cutting the taxes of the rich, would that cause suddenly become liberal?

Unless you are simply using "liberal" and "conservative" to refer to people, rather than ideologies, the answer must be no.

[Pepperbelly]

37. i think he is guilty of little more than wishful thinking.

Whistling past the graveyard. :shrug:

[Jacobin]

39. He is a person who is responsible for policy

He is a person who has a voice that is heard.

He is responsible for the purse strings of war

He is elected to represent the people whose children go to war.

He should shut his fucking whistler up, deal with reality, stop popping off and figure out what is best for his country.

Alas, that is too much to ask of our elected officials, but for a very very few.

[kiahzero]

42. Perhaps he is trying to do what's best

He doesn't think that pulling out is for the best, and I for one agree. Failed states are a danger, not only to the citizens of the state in question, but also to the world. Afghanistan became a failed state, and therefore a terrorist haven, because we screwed the Afghans after the Soviets left.

But I guess anyone who disagrees with you must just be ignoring reality, right?

[Jacobin]

45. Vietnam redux

The elements are all there.

Conservatives high behind the occupation.

Many well meaning liberals going along for all the good reasons.

Enjoy your war.

Leave me out of it.

[kiahzero]

49. Bullshit

There was an established government in Vietnam... it was essentially a war between two factions. The faction we supported lost, and we eventually pulled out.

In Iraq, there is no such established government, except for us - we toppled the existing government. If we were to leave before a new government was established, there would be a power vacuum. No good ever comes of a power vacuum.

It's hardly "my" war (I opposed it from the moment it was first proposed), and I hardly enjoy it. I just think that perhaps the well-being of the citizens of Iraq, and to a lesser extent, the citizens of the world, trumps political point-scoring.

It seems you disagree.

[JHBowden]

17. I agree with you.

In addition, from a strictly political standpoint, it is better to be optimistic. Pessimism only hurts Biden, while if the situation in Iraq continues to deteriorate, it hurts Bush.

I'm not certain what people are worked up about.

[wyldwolf]

24. The root issue in this thread is this

Do we want things to get worse in Iraq just to hurt Bush?

And, therefore, are we going to call anyone (like Biden) a "liar" if he is optimistic? (or pretends to be optimistic?)

No thanks. I'd rather things get better and we get the hell out than hope things get worse to make a political point.

If Biden is lying for being optimistic, some are lying here by being pessimistic.

[Jacobin]

32. Why do you think that "wishing" and "hoping" for delusional results

assists our leaders in making good decision.

I think that is bizarre.

[wyldwolf]

54. what I think is bizarre...

...is your obvious hope that things DON'T get better.

No, wait... being on DU for several years now I've come to expect that from some mindsets.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Has always been, still is, probably always will be.

He backed the war, and still does. The hair transplant didn't add any brains.

[MoonRiver]

22. Biden keeps trying to kiss both cheeks of the arse politic.

But he just always ends up looking like the phony he is.

:thumbsdown:

[LuminousX]

33. Not Foolish at all... Raising the expectations

and can't be called a naysayer.

Yes. After the handoff, Iraq is going to be a Utopia!

Raise the bar as high as we can, don't let Bush get by with lowered expectations ever again.

[Southsideirish]

34. Is, was and always will be an ass. Very strange dude.

[Disturbed]

50. Wishing for Iraq to get worse?

That is Bull!!! No one on this thread stated that.

The Sunnis and former Baathists, the Kurds, the Shi'ites all have axes to grind. Then there are the various tribal squables. On top of that there are Al Q. like elements and Iran stirring things up. No US Puppet Govt. is going to quell that mix. If this "new" Govt. that most Iraqis most likely view as a US-CIA backed one gets tougher, it will only entrench all of those factions even more. It is not wishful thinking to view this situation as getting worse. It is a more possible reality than one with rose colored glasses views.

The US will be in this KILL zone for years to come unless the Iraqis have a Mass Uprising where millions charge the Green Zone and kick the Occupation out.

[tnlefty]

43. Funny, the Vietnamese didn't get a last gasp

Please correct me if I don't remember correctly, but I seem to remember that they became quite adept at gathering up materials around them, i.e., tin cans, stray bullets, etc. and making homemade explosives that were hard to detect because they were different in appearance because the materials were changing. They weren't running out of materials they were resorceful and improvised what they needed.

[Jacobin]

47. The russians and chinese helped, too

I suspect that there are any number of countries who would love to see our imperialism stopped who will help.

We armed the Afghans against the Russians.

It is probable that there is payback going on.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

51. How much does anyone want to bet that Biden was shown only...

...those things the NeoCons wanted him to see?

But, IMHO, Biden has always been a NeoCon in a Democrat's clothing.

[Solly Mack]

55. When senators visit this army post, a big show is put on for them

they go to best mess halls....or dine with the general in his home. But they don't see the mess halls in bad need of repair.

They see all the construction going on "to improve post security"...but they don't see the glitches...and more staff is in place for the senators visit. Once they are gone...so is the extra staff.

They are taken to the schools that have been repaired and repainted...but not the ones in need of so many necessary items.

Every stop along the way is pre-planned.

They are limited to a select handpicked audience of army personel and spouses. I was told to select spouses within my company who " you know will not cause problems" during a visit from a FORSCOM general.


I don't imagine it's much different anywhere else.

[stickdog]

56. Biden is now a Bi-Dem.

He swings both ways!