How long did it take Pub Lurkers to find out here on DU that they were in

[opihimoimoi]

error; and now have changed their viewpoints towards the middle of the Political Spectrum?

Not all Pub Lurkers remain Pub, some see the light after lurking here for awhile. They learn here from facts and "Other Points of View", they start to question. They learn that all is not well with the Pub Philosophy; that de facto, its all Negative. The Pubs win by "Dividing" not on the merits but by trickery and deception.

Most of What we say here(DU) actually makes sense while on the Pub side of the coin, Delusional Anger is quite Common. Help us average the time to change.

1 month? 5? 10 months?

[neuvocat]

1. And remember, its anonymous.

You don't have to tell us your names.

[IronLionZion]

2. If you don't have a DU username use one of these:

gokerry
246810

or

kerrylots
passion8


From bugmenot.com

[opihimoimoi]

3. I know, its embarrassing to admit it. I understand.

[Hubert Flottz]

4. They are skeerd to fess up!

And they are ashamed they voted for Potty Mouth Cheney!

[Rebellious Republican]

5. I'm not skeered to fess up,

I Left (pun intended)the Republican party two years ago. I announced my Democratic party affiliation here on DU the day I received my new voter registration card. I am happy to announce to any lurkers that may be around, the NEOCONS do not care about you. They are arrogant, egotistical hypocrites that only care about their wealthy constituency. You are being sold a bill of goods, here is a quote from Jebs last inauguration speech. If this does not tell you that they are fascists then you are blind as well as ignorant.

"And if we are, we can embed in society a sense of caring that makes government less necessary. There would be no greater tribute to our maturity as a society than if we can make these buildings around us empty of workers; silent monuments to the time when government played a larger role than it deserved or could adequately fill".
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/4893247.htm

So if their goal is to have no government, what does that leave?

[Hubert Flottz]

6. I'm glad you're here!

I'm glad you saw the light! I salute you for caring about your country enough to seek the truth!

[opihimoimoi]

7. Here Here,

Congrats on seeing the light.

Hope there will be more, much more ..as they also see they are being had

[Rebellious Republican]

38. HF and Opi, thanks and yes, there are many more like me! N/T

[redqueen]

33. That is frightening

I undertsand the need to keep government efficient, but what do they think keeps a check on power? It's sure not we the people!

What also worries me is how people I've talked with complain about how bad and evil government is, and how they think rich people get too much of the blame for how bad things are. I just have to ask them... who the heck do you think controls the government?!

Why do people think upper-middle-class people are rich, anyway? Can we correct that somehow?

[Rebellious Republican]

39. It scared the hell out of me to, I do not understand how people

miss what he is saying. They (Neocons) are very open about there desire to do away with government and replace it with privatization. Know one seems to notice, I am personally dumbfounded by the ignorance.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Curious Dave]

9. I could tell you were a freeper

before you even posted this!

[MontecitoDem]

10. Still glad you are here

there's lots of posts on DU that I agree with and lots (and lots!) that I disagree with. So while you are here, don't forget that this is a message board. It's not the Democratic Party Platform or anything. You can't generalize to all democrats or liberals or progressives by what you read here. (Especially since we are always disagreeing with one another!)

I too am saddened by the polarization of our country. I wish we could all focus together on the issues that really matter to the average American. How I see those are, aside from the war, (1) a safe and clean environment to live in (that's safe from terrorism and also safe from toxins); (2) the opportunity to earn a decent wage at a decent job and to be able to care for one's family (school, healthcare); (3) the freedom to live as we choose provided we aren't harming others.

Anyway, appreciate this thread and your post.

:)

[Skittles]

11. AFTER ALL THAT HAS HAPPENED

YOU'RE *STILL* GOING ON ABOUT BILL AND MONICA? I MEAN, COME ON, THAT IS BEYOND PATHETIC.

Please EDUCATE yourself: start with this =====>
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_001616.shtml

[tom_paine]

20. Yeah, how about the Commie Socialist Stalinists at DefenceTalk?

Bunch of dope-smoking hippies!

:evilgrin:

I wouldn't be so hard on this guy, skittles.

He had the balls to honestly come forth with an answer on a hostile board.

They are ALL still going on about Bill and Monica! It's what their TVs tells them to do.

And for a vast majority of the Imperial Subjects of Amerikas, they (we) obey their TVs.

Cut this guy some slack, skit.

[Skittles]

40. I'LL CUT HIM SOME SLACK

AFTER I KICK HIS ASS. :7

[Armstead]

12. Appreciate your honesty

As someone noted above, this is a message board. Many people with many differing opinions and styles of expressing them.

I agree with you that the country has become too polarized. But I hope you at least are able to see things throughj the eyes of those of us on the left.

Conservatives call liberals lovers of terrorism, anti-American and all otehr manner of names. And Rush Limbaugh and his clones have been mocking us and distorting the truth for years.

So yes we are angry. And there is no justification for hate. But you should also understand that Democrats and liberals have been politely putting up with those insults for a long time, and now we're giving it back.

[Kanary]

14. What Armstead said. And, to add......

Remember, some of those posts you take great exception to are conservatives posting to be disrupting....... pretending to be "librul" and doing so in an obnoxious manner to make us "look bad". :) Being the type of message board this is, it's possible to do that, and it happens.

That said, many of us are also not at all happy or comfortable with some of the blasting that goes on here. We can (and do) give lots of reasons for it -- legitimate reasons for being *very* angry...... but it still isn't necessary to have a lot of the ugly bahses that are much too common.

Please, tho...... think honestly of what has been said for so many years on Rush et al, and ask yourself if you were the intneded target of that hate, wouldn't you be ready to blow a gasket, too? The divisiveness started from the RW...this is *NOT* how this country has historically dealt with political issues.

One more thing I would ask of you......... you list MIHOP as something to laugh at....... I would ask that you remember that some here have done a *lot* of research, and feel very concerned that MIHOP is true. Many of us feel that we have already lost our country. While that is not your view, maybe you could understand how it's affecting us to see beyond the surface, and worry about our country going downhill irretrievably. While you discount it now, please remember that history may actually show us to be right on that account, and the full impact of what that means.

There is much love of country here, which fuels the dispair that you see as "devisive". If there wasn't such a deep love of this country, we wouldn't be so distressed.

Kanary

[opihimoimoi]

22. Well said Kanary....well said.

Cone, we go drink diet Pepsi

[AwakeAtLast]

13. This jumped out at me

"Again, I'm a Republican and I don't look like Tammy Faye Baker, I don't drive an SUV, I don't hate gays, I wouldn't deface a Liberal bumper sticker or yard-sign and, although I am a Christian, I don't carry a purse full of tracts to foist off on every person I meet."

The description you give sounds more liberal than conservative. So would you call yourself a liberal Republican? Just curious. Thanks for offering your viewpoint!

[texas is the reason]

15. welcome, and i applaud you for trying to understand both sides of ........

...the current state of affairs. In response to what you have seen here on DU, i must say that this is a community which encompasses all forms of liberalism, progressivism, and just plain anti-bushism (probably my motivating factor.) as such, there will be many radical views expressed here that truly are way outside the mainstream of the democratic party. This is, however no different than some of the ignorant, racist vitriol that can be seen from time to time on freerepublic.com, which i am sure is well outside of the mainstream of the republican party. To be honest, the values that i hold most dear-personal freedoms, fiscal responsibility, and personal accountability are all probably considered "republican" positions. I once considered myself a republican because of this, and even <gasp> voted for bush in 2000. But the simple fact is that this republican party that we see today does not serve those values. Where is the defense of personal freedoms in the patriot act? where is the fiscal responsibility in turning a budget surplus into a half-trillion dollar defecit to give tax cuts to, predominately, the rich (who would invest rather than spend, and not stimulate our economy like cuts to the middle class would). Where is the personal accountability when bush family "good old boys" like the leaders of Enron, Tyco, Adelphia, and Halliburton are all given a pass on defrauding consumers out of many, many billions of dollars in just a few years? This administration does not serve those interests. It will pander to christian evangelists, and serve tragically flawed neoconservative ideology in the face of all reason and common sense. it will push short term tax cuts at the expense of our long term survival as a nation, but it will not preserve the constitution and manage our government with a shrewd conservative eye. these people in power now are scam artists and opportunists......not republicans.

[Guaranteed]

16. You sound like one of the good ones.

Look, whether you're a neo-con or not, what we've seen from the neo-cons is fascism. Secrecy in the government, warmongering, corporate whoring, environmental carelessness, unilateralism, etc. And, believe it or not, there is a lot of GENUINE conservative thought that goes on in this forum, mostly fiscal (people like balanced budgets, for example). We're not seeing this kind of fiscal responsibility in the neo-cons.

Some of the tactics engaged in on this site, likewise, I don't agree with, and I get the feeling that many DUers don't agree with them. The anti-Christianity is rampant, I admit, and I wish it wasn't so. People should learn to just let others practice whatever kind of spirituality they want to- that goes for the neo-cons, too.

In any case, take some of what you see here with a grain of salt. Most liberals aren't crazy, and you probably have a lot more in common with them, as far as vision of what America should be, than you might think.

Thanks for sharing. Good, civil discourse is much appreciated.

[Beam Me Up]

17. I am also deeply saddened by the divisiveness I see in our country and

in our society. I appreciate it very much when someone like yourself takes the risk to speak honestly in this forum. I can appreciate some of your criticisms of DU.

I am very concerned about our country. Apparently unlike you, I do not trust the ultra rich. (I'm not talking about the upper middle class but the global 'uber rich,' not all of whom are American or WASP). The history I've read suggests that, although they are hardly monolithic, they are closer to their own interests and the interests of others of their class than they are the 'common folk'. I actually do believe that some within their class CONSPIRE to keep the working classes divided. Why IS it, precisely, that the media keeps focusing our attention ON OUR DIFFERENCES, more so than on those things the 'right' and the 'left' (and others) have in common? We sincerely need to ask this question and to realize that, although it may sell fewer news papers or less under arm deodorant, the values we SHARE as citizens are far more important than those that divide us.

I am a MIHOPER but I need to be very clear what I mean by that. First, I do not claim to know exactly what happened on 9/11 or who was responsible. To me 'MIHOP' doesn't necessarily mean, for example, that George W. Bush knew in advance, much less planned, the events of 9/11. What *I* mean by "MIHOP" is:

a) Whatever happened on 9/11, it was NOT what the media and the federal government has been telling us. Once one begins to ask questions and to poke around in those areas where (oddly enough) the media does not want to look, we find way way way too many 'coincidences' to BE coincidental. Whatever 9/11 was, I am convinced it was NOT a "terrorist attack" in the conventional sense.

b) Although I do not have 'proof' of it, I personally feel convinced that the events of 9/11 were perpetrated by a special operations, extra-military force. In this light, 9/11 was NOT an "intelligence failure" but WAS an "intelligence success" -- because it set in motion a series of social, economic, governmental and military responses THAT WERE THE INTENT OF THE OPERATION.

I leave you and everyone else to consider WHO BENEFFITTED from the events of 9/11 and who among those who benefited were in a position to bring into play clandestine, special operations forces, capable of disrupting our national air defense for almost two hours.

Yes, it is possible that I am just a paranoid freak. Don't count on it, though, because what is at stake if I'm NOT is your life, the lives of your loved ones and this COUNTRY we call home.

I want answers and I want to know why we aren't given REAL answers to REAL questions about all the anomalies surrounding the events of 9/11.

[tom_paine]

18. People are angry here, ConservativeLurker, and with good reason

You see, put yourself in a Liberal's shoes.

Hell, I'm a meat-eatin', gun-totin', Left Center Moderate but having seen what the Bush Party-Loyal Sub-Media has said about Liberals (and by extension me, being on the left side of the dial, albeit slightly) for the last decade has both enraged and frightened me.

I'm one of those who says that all BUSHEVIKS (NOT ALL REPUBLICANS) are akin to "kinder and gentler" Nazis.

I'm sorry. I believe it is the TRUTH and I won't back down from it.

Would you like me to back it up? Easy (although I could spend a page noting ten or twelev different categories of similarities)

The Modern Bushevik Says (and many True Conservatives foolishly agree without thinking)

"Liberals are wrong with everything in America today."
"Liberals are NOT Real Americans."
"Liberals hate America and side with her enemies always."

Nazis used to say

"Jews are wrong with everything in Germans today."
"Jews are NOT Real Germans."
"Jews hate Germany and side with her enemies always."

You see, even if that were the ONLY similarity, that would be enough for me.

Do you agree that even ONE similarity with the Nazi Party is too much? There's more, if I had the time and space to write them all down.

Further, up until the Bloodless Coup of 2000, there was NOTHING like that level of Demonization/Dehumanization Rhetoric coming from the Democratic Party or it's organs.

Many of us feel it is hypocritical and yes, cowardly on the part of the Busheviks, and to a lesser extent, Old-School Republicans and True Conservatives, to hear you guys crying about the lack of civility NOW after 20 YEARS of this stuff coming from you.

Some think it is the whiny cry of a Bully who's tormentor he'd smashed for years, steps up to the plate and gives him a bloody nose.

"Principal! Little Jimmy punched me in the eye! Could you suspend him?"

Of course, I would say that sort of "Aggressor believing himself as victim" is also the attitude of the SS Guard.

Sorry, but I won't back down from this. It goes like this:

The scene...Auschwitz 1943, a hulking SS Guard stand over a Little Jew laying prostrate on the ground:

"Filthy (kick) Fucking (kick) Jew! (kick kick) Stop (kick) oppressing (kick) me! (kick kick kick)!"

Jew painfully rises from the dust, weak with starvation, "You should be ashamed of yourself," and surprising the Nazi, slaps him weakly across the face.

"Did you SEE what that Jew did?!? Kill him!

Gun fires six times. Scene over.

Am I saying these cases are equal in extremity? No. But they belong to the same "family", if you know what I mean.

Liberals, I'm sorry to say, (and I am speaking generally here and not about anyone in specifc) have been cowering for the last 20 years, backing down like the tormented kid "Please don't hurt me, Mr. Bully, I'll stop oppressing you".

And that attitude is sadly reflected in the Democratic Party, but if the Old American Republic survives the Bushevik attempts to destroy it and turn it into a One-party Empire like China, THAT WILL CHANGE.

Why? Because people like me, who NEVER gave a shit or acted for politics before are coming off the bench. And we most decidely are NOT going to back down, are NOT going to say "please don't hurt me" and are going to DISH back every bit of Nazi-style Rhetoric the Bush Propaganda Operation can muster.

Every bit of it. So get used to it. Sorry, but that's how it is.

We are like the White Corpuscles of Liberty, activating in order to save a diseased and dying Republic from Tyrant's Grip.

And guess what, already it's showing. I am not a Liberal, but I would defend them TO THE DEATH. I mean that. So do millions of others of "White Corpuscles of Liberty".

May God Help us and prevent that it never happen.

You asked, I answered.

"No more of the Soft Underbelly of Liberalism! No more Mr. Nice Guy!"
--anonymous marcher, Voetrs Rights March 5/19/2001

Can you imagine how loudly I cheered that statement?

Get used to the Left, now fortified with some backbone, both from the Libs' new understanding of the situation (you wouldn't believe how many libs, thanks to Bushevik Tyranny and the threat of a Night of the Long Knives or Liberal Internet Kritallnacht, now REALLY UNDERSTAND 2nd Amendment issues at their core...lots) and from their being infused with Angry Moderates like myself.

Get used to all of it, ConservativeLurker. Unless, of course you Moderate Republicans kick the Imperials and Totalitarians out of your Party and return to sanity once again.

Which is what you should have done when you saw these lunatics sezing your Party and twisting it from True Conservatism to Imperial Orwellian Tyranny.

[Bandit]

30. Wow ~ Your anger is inspirational

I agree with all you said

[Sophree]

42. tompaine

You rock my world. :headbang:

[Anarcho-Socialist]

19. Thanks for your honest post

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[opihimoimoi]

21. I appreciate the Honesty and candor. Please feel free to :Lurk as you

wish and by all means input at will.

[Swamp Rat]

23. Dear ConservLurker

I have lurked here since 2001. While we may not agree on some issues, I'm glad you came here and chose to open up tonight. For me, it was a cathartic experience. Maybe it will be for you too if you keep the dialogue going.

First and foremost I assume that you love America as much as the wonderful people who post here regularly. Otherwise, none of us would be here making an effort to better our country. A lot of folks are angry right now, and perhaps the colorful way we express it might seem shocking or strange. Please accept that and continue to be with us.

There are other forums on the internet, but many do not allow the diversity of opinions as you have seen here. If the tenor of a particular DU thread offends you, move to another that seems more reasonable. Then think about posting your ideas. Since you chose the name "ConservLurker" it appears that you are an honest person and we'll appreciate that... or at least I do.

Welcome to DU my friend :toast:


PS Some things I say in other threads may offend you. Please keep in mind that I am angry with many of my fellow citizens for letting our country sink so low, but remember that I love America and will die fighting to save her.

[Rebellious Republican]

24. Very well said ConservativeLurker.......

I have seen a lot of the posts you are referring to, while I agree that there are some that post very disagreeable threads, and have hate in there hearts. I also believe that their are political operatives posting here at DU, posting hypocritic messages to sabotage the Democratic message. You do make valid points, but it boils down to one simple question for me. Do I believe this administration acts in my best interest. My answer is absolutely not, and I am not the only conservative that feels this way. No, I have many conservative Friends that are not satisfied as well. Trust me I am your stereotypical conservative to. I am a middle income, ex-military, middle aged, white southern male ex 20 year registered republican. That should tell you some thing, I would address your quality post in more detail, but I have to go to my blue job, so that I can try to keep my head above water. Thanks for the ext ordinary and honest post, I do mean that sincerely.

[tom_paine]

26. How come his mesaage was deleted?

I didn't find anything wrong with it, myself.

He seemed civil, didn't repeat smears (although maybe he did...the record is erased) and was pretty polite and with a genuine concern for the issues.

Puzzling.

[DustMolecule]

27. Yes, I agree with you tom-paine

I don't understand why it was deleted either. I thought it was a very thoughtful/polite post as well. As you said, ConservLurker had a genuine concern about the issues.

Hmmmmm.....I hope the mods can provide some sort of comment about it.

[KoKo]

35. ...the post was deleted. Why?

I'm reading replies to "Message Delted." Doesn't sound like this person said anything that offensive. :shrug:

[MUSTANG_2004]

36. The rules of the board

It isn't just saying something offensive:

"If you think overall that George W. Bush is doing a swell job, or if you wish to see Republicans win, or if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals, please do not register to post, as you will likely be banned."

[Rebellious Republican]

37. No, this person was not at all offensive, this is one case where ......

one rule does not fit all. When I started posting here two years ago, I was not offensive and a lot of DU'ers took me under their wing. I can even name names of some of the old timers that welcomed me to the big tent, a lot of them are still around. I am now as yellow a dog Dem as you will ever find posting here. Thanks to the open mindedness of those people my education was made easier. But you would probably not know that since you are a newbie, no offense intended.

[MUSTANG_2004]

43. I figured as much

As we saw from the moderator response, "DU is a place for Democrats and progressives. It is not a place for conservatives", my comment wasn't such a newbie response after all...

[Rebellious Republican]

44. Oh, great reply, NAH,NAH,NAH I told you so! When you pass ...

through puberty, let me know!
:eyes:

[MUSTANG_2004]

45. Glad you liked the reply!

But I'm on the wrong side of the life expectancy curve for it to be puberty, so I must still have an inner child who enjoys the occassional "See, I was right!"...

[Rebellious Republican]

41. I posted a query in "Ask the Admin" forum as to why CL's post

was deleted. Here is the link for those that are interested in their reply.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=120x19008

[Hubert Flottz]

25. Keep the lamp lit for the lost souls from Limbo Land Opihi!

How could all the little GOPers have known in 2000, that they would be swimming for their lives in this sea of Bu$hit? Their TVs didn't warn them about the dreadful things to come! The whole truth about Shadow Man Shrub was there in 2000, but the reporters didn't dwell on that! They still don't!

Come, we throw boxes of dAnn's hateful books on the signal fire!

[opihimoimoi]

29. Lets do the BonFire thingy, the Light needs to be bright

get out the marshmellows too, might as well have some treats at the same time, a 2 fer.

[FlaGranny]

28. One can only wonder

at the delusions of people wanting * to win. War, torture, corporate welfare, deficits, deceit are good things to some folks?

Well, the Third Reich needed those kinds of people too. I guess that's all the explanation needed.

[leesa]

31. It's really scary to think how dumb you would have to be to still support

the Criminal Bush. They must like to be lied to and robbed.

[DrWeird]

32. Question for people who support Bush.

The recently leaked memos show that Bush ordered the torture. Now, if you're fine with torture that's one thing. But when the news leaked about torture the first thing Bush did was blame the troops. Is this what republicans mean by "personal responsibility?"

[Hubert Flottz]

34. It's how bush supports the troops!

Blames everything he did on them! Does shit that will cause our soldiers to be mistreated if they are taken captive! "Bush Supports the Troops", is yet another GOPer lie!

[vetwife]

46. This country is about We the People and the folks in power

seem to think they have a monopoly on God, Flag and Country. Not true. This is not longer a Democratic or Republican issue. It is coming down to an American issue. I don't think you are too comfortable in supporting Bush or you wouldn't be lookin at the opposition. The party that calls itself the Republican Party is no more. I don't know what they are but they are spending like drunken sailors and not supporting the troops or veterans. We are looking for change and we want to be respected as a Nation and not run a Secret Government. We want our Freedom and Democracy in this Republic not to be compromised and sold to the highest bidder. We are patriots and we are not laying claim to God Country or the Flag. It belongs to America..Not one party. There are over 200 religions in this world and since this country is a melting pot, we should be tolerant and not demonize folks because they don't worship or don't worship the way we do. After all when it comes right down to it. Anything you don't personally believe in is a Cult. Right?
Someone told me that and it did make me stop and think. Its an individual thing and should not be crammed down folks throat. We are free mortal agents and have free will.

Also..united we stand..Divided we Fall..sooner or later.....
its time to Move forward and work towards Peace and mending fences with allies. At the end of the wars, it always comes down to the negotiating table. We have to give and take in debates and we need checks and balances. We also should be truthful to the American People, no matter which party is in power. This party has not.