Michael Moore on TDS w/ Jon Stewart last night... "A Liberal Nation?"

[elfwitch]

He said at one point that he feels that the United States is basically a liberal nation. I'm throwing that thought out there for discussion...

Premise: The United States is at it's core a liberal nation that was taken over by a rabid conservative minority. Do you agree or disagree?

[redqueen]

1. Agree

Anyone who takes issue positions into account is bound to notice.

Not that anyone in the media is overly concerned with facts lately...

[evil_orange_cat]

2. agree... I've read the chapter in his book... his case is strong.

plus, I don't believe that half the country is just plain evil/stupid.

[Vickers]

3. He goes over that in his "Dude" book

If you ask a non-loaded question to the average American, they reveal a progressive slant overall. Very interesting stuff.

The right-leaning appearance is mainly because of the pervasive media spin and a few stupid loudmouths.

[mstrsplinter326]

4. I don't know if it is that simple

But Moore makes a great arguement for it in Dude, Where's my country?

I believe that 85% of this nation, if they were to vote on issues rather than ideals like "compassionate conservatism," they would vote more liberal than howard dean.

An interesting tid bit: 20% of american citizens believe that they are in the top 1% of wealthy americans. I don't think we realize what it means to really be rich, mostly because we're lied to all the time.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

9. Yup,

like have a dream and work hard to realize it. Any thing is possible kind of bull shit.

[zbdent]

5. Well, when somebody tries to insinuate that the country is

moving to more conservative than liberal, tell them "So, that's why the country's going to hell, like you've been saying!"

[Burma Jones]

6. Compared to Saudi Arabia, we're liberal

I think the term liberal has been so misused, that it's hard to say.

I've read Moore's chapter about this and he's pretty much right. However, compared to most of the rest of the industrialized world, we're pretty cut-throat.

[mark414]

7. wholeheartedly agree

EOM

[SheepyMcSheepster]

8. agree

[Cat Atomic]

10. Agreed. The public has been manipultated with bullshit "moral"

posturing, when it's really the same old class war that our grandparents, great grandparents, etc. fought.

Ask people what they think of national health care. Or increasing the minimum wage. Or worker safety standards. Or environmental protections. Or regulated markets.

This is a liberal country. A good portion has been convinced that they're conservative because of some symbolic emotional issue, like flag burning.

[maxpower]

11. Agree

We have been hijacked.

[depakid]

12. If you believe the polls on actual issues

then we're mostly a progressive country....

Ignorant, arrogant and all too often ethnocentric, but for the most part even a lot of Republicans are progressive. They just don't know it.

[Cheswick2.0]

13. Agree

No doubt about it. People think they are conservative because they have been brainwashed. However when you ask them about specific issues they agree more with the left than the right.

[noahmijo]

14. We are a liberal nation: Proof?

Gore a liberal candidate and Nadar (A REALLY liberal candidate) together won the vast majority of the popular vote in election 2000.

Hell Gore by himself won the vast majority of the popular vote.

This is even with Bush stealing the vote.

[Poiuyt]

15. Agree, but the RW views politics as war

I heard an interview with the author of Banana Republican who described how most Americans have liberal viewpoints but vote Republican because of the way that the right campaigns. The far RW has taken over the political landscape because they have a take-no-prisoners attitude.

[tom_paine]

20. They also loathe democracy and have no compunction about violating

rules.

Does this mean the Democrats are pure as the driven snow?

Of course not, but the Imperial Family is Murderous Human Sewage of the worst type.

[Armstead]

16. I believe most are moderate progressive -- but demoralized

In my experience and observation, most people are in the large mass of the middle, but tending towards liberal/progressive on actual issues and values.

But the MEDIA SLIME, corporate propaganda and the Wussy Democrats have made poeple fatalistic and demoralized that things can be improved.

They've been pounded with the Aura of Inevitability of Corporate Dominance and the related Demonization of Liberal Social Values for years. So they don't see any chance that things can be improved.

They don't see government or politics as relevant anymore, or see anyone on their side regarding their fears and aspirations.

As a result people retreat into the cozy embrace of eitehr apathy or the conservative image.

In short, people are receptive to liberal positions -- but they have to see some larger social/political force identified with them.

[noonwitch]

17. I think that the USA is a moderate-to-liberal nation, on the whole

If it doesn't show up in our politics, it sure shows up in our culture.

[ProfessorGAC]

18. I Agree With It

The conservative movement has been forced to be highly organized, strident, and even resort to deceit in order to foment actions that are contrary to the history and best aspects of our citizenry.

Folks without a high interest in day to day, week to week in government actions, have been bamboozled into believing that the country is conservative, and their interests are served by these felons.

The country has always supported Social Security, Welfare, Disability, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.

These beliefs are long standing and consistent with our Constitution and the conservative movement has stooped to subterfuge and lies to accomplish their shortsighted goals. If the country was really conservative, they would never have needed to do this.
The Professor

[BillZBubb]

19. Disagree, the US is fundamentally a conservative nation.

We have spasms of liberalism following the disasters the conservatives lead us into. But once normalcy is restored, the public goes back to its basic "what's in it for me" attitude. One would think that after the Great Depression, the conservatives would have been finished here. Instead, they made a solid comeback after the war.

The idea that the conservatives are snowing the public into voting for them doesn't stand up to examination. From the start of this nation, conservatives have held a fairly consistent majority. Did the conservatives fool the public into electing John Adams?

A higher percentage of Americans are church goers than in any other industrialized nation. That's a conservative trait (no not all church goers are conservatives, but most churches are). A much higher percentage of Americans support the death penalty than in any other nation. Again core conservatism. Americans are much less likely to support government programs like universal health care or a strong social safety net than anywhere else. And finally, Americans will support virtually any war, virtually any time when their "leader" tells them to. That's just the short list.

It is just wishful thinking to believe a majority of Americans are innately liberal. The evidence is clear that a majority is conservative, except in times of trouble.

[GarySeven]

21. The idea of getting rid of a king ...

and governing yourself is a LIBERAL idea; the idea that people are people and enslaving some of them is evil is a LIBERAL idea; the idea that people are equal and should have a say in how they are governed is a LIBERAL idea. Hell, yes, this is a liberal country. Liberalism built this country. Liberals have been fighting against repressive conservativism from the beginning; but now those political faiths have been labeled as Democrat or Republican. Liberalism has been a force that has moved this country for nearly 250 years; party affiliations are transitive. A hundred years ago, it was Republicans who were liberal and Democrats were conservative (remember Lincoln? The most liberal president of all time.) A hundred years of party entrenchment, however, made the Republicans conservatives and the progressive wing of the Democratic party was able to make Democrats into the protectors of liberalism. Afterwards, the liberals with their new party continued to build the greatest nation on earth, freeing people from legal and social barriers that had isolated them. Hell yes, this is a liberal country. Why are conservatives so proud of their heritage? Can you be proud of being the people who were AGAINST independence from Britain, AGAINST the abolition of slavery, AGAINST enfranchising women? Thank GOD we are a liberal nation, otherwise we'd be no different from all the other nations of the world.

[Trajan]

22. His point is this ....

WE, as a nation, live in the 'liberal' mindset formed after the progressive era which culminated in the failed GOP regimes of Harding, Coolidge and Hoover ... AFTER the Great Depression, FDR instituted numerous 'liberal' programs that live on to this day ...

We still are basking in that glow of liberalism ...

HIS point was that EVEN though the loud voices in the nation say they are NOT 'liberal', they STILL support those liberal programs which formed the core ofthe FDR, LBJ New Deal/Great Society worldview ...

So yes: PHILOSOPHICALLY: we live as liberals ... even as the loud voices declare hatred for liberals ...