Rumsfield the Torturer

[Pale_Rider]

Nearly spit coffee all over the keyboard when I glanced at the scrawl of an obvious madman on a memo on counter-resistance techniques. Rumsfield objects that detainees should be made to stand as long that Our Dear Torturer can stand. The scrawl notes:

However, I stand for 8-10 hours a day. Why is standing limited to 4 hours?

D.R.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0623041doj4.html

What a freaking madman! Unbelievable that this twit is defining torture techniques based upon what he obviously enjoys!

[shoelace414]

1. holy moly

I thought that was an addition by the Daily show via photoshop.

[rkc3]

6. Actually,

It would be funny if the Daily Show had the handwritten note as:

I have electrodes on my genitals for 8-10 hours a day. Why are we limiting them to four hours a day?

End of sarcasm.

[seventhson]

2. So how long does Rummy

stand around with electric cattle prods attached to his genitalia?

Inquiring minds want to know

[shoelace414]

4. I'd like to see him

stand for 8 hours in a row, without being able to sit at all

I think he's exaggerating a bit

[24HRrnr]

5. My wife

is a nurse and stands for 8+ hours every day...

I've been known to run for 3x that long...

Standing for four hours is not torture and if we insist it is, we devalue legitimate arguments against very real abuses.

[opihimoimoi]

7. Its torture if there is mitigating circumstances, like injury or fatigue

[24HRrnr]

9. So when my wife is tired

she's being tortured at work. What about teachers that show up for work with a broken arm - they're injured, they're tortured?

[opihimoimoi]

26. Different, its voluntary

[jackstraw45]

10. Sleep deprivation + forced standing IS torture

[Pale_Rider]

13. Yes ... but ...

... your wife is "free" to sit whenever time allows.

[Must_B_Free]

19. This is an attempt to confuse the issue

Standing is the most benign "stress position" one could mention.

Recall that in the Abu Girraf pictures, they were forced to stand with their arms out, balance on a box, have arms handcuffed to eather end of a bed and that one guy was handcuffed doubled over a rail.

Pure deception on the part of the administration. I don't know how anyone could think this was acceptable because they "ran for 24 hours."

[gratuitous]

21. And a pretty lame one at that

Very few nurses of my acquaintance are forced to stand in one position for four hours at a time, menaced by armed guards and dogs.

[Ms. Clio]

23. Your wife doesn't stand in exactly the same place for 8 hours a day

with her arms raised.

She is moving around, doing her job. Just like Rummy is moving around on his clawed feet, doing Satan's work.

[Realityhack]

24. BS

You can not compair standing for work or choseing to run to being forced to stand. In addition someone not used to this will be far more stressed than you.
This technique is used specificaly because it is horible to experiance. If it was not they would not be using it. It is a fairly clear violation of the convention against torture.

RH

[24HRrnr]

3. Uh, dude?

Are you implying that standing for four whole hours constitutes torture? if so, you do serious damage to our credibility - teachers, cops, nurses, all frequently stand for a lot longer than 4 hours. Let's focus on real torture - beating of prisoners, use of dogs, etc.

[jackstraw45]

8. Uh, dude....it's a combo of sleep deprivation and forced standing

for many hours.

You try staying up straight for 48-72 hours and then he handcuffed to a railing for 4 hours.


Just like a teacher or a nurse....
:eyes:

[Pale_Rider]

16. I think that the photo ...

... says it well.

[atreides1]

11. But

The occupations you've described do not stand for the entire time, they take breaks, get meals, do paperwork, and other things where they get to sit down. Cops directing traffic, and nurses in surgery, may have to stand for long periods of time, but not all cops direct traffic, and not all nurses are surgical nurses. Besides even in those
particular instances they still get to move around.

What was being described was standing in one place for 4 hours, at the
position of attention, with no breaks. So short of being a guard at
Buckingham Palace, or the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, this could consitute a form of torture.

[donhakman]

12. torture victims need to work harder

Slacker

[24HRrnr]

14. If you read the memos,

that is not correct. Sleep deprivation includes rest breaks and the standing is in a "normal" position - not at attention and not to "the point of weakness or collapse".

As authorized, these do not constitute torture.

Beating a man to death like the CIA does.

[jackstraw45]

15. Did the memos contain instructions on this?

[24HRrnr]

17. No

and these are the things we should focus on - which I've been saying from the start. Meanwhile, everybody else has got their knickers in a knot over mild inconveniences and we're alienating voters that think we're silly because instead of focusing on real issues, we declare standing to be torture - oh my aching feet.

Let's go after the real issues, the beatings and the CIA complicity and stop the stupid whining about Rumsfeld is "a freaking madman! Unbelievable that this twit is defining torture techniques based upon what he obviously enjoys!", ie. standing!

[Pale_Rider]

22. Mild inconveniences ...

[24HRrnr]

18. By the way

nice change of topic.

[thebigidea]

27. Speaking of damaged credibility...

[HFishbine]

20. "I regularly take 4 or 5 light sticks...

why just one?"

[Pale_Rider]

25. Kick ...

:kick: