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There are just a FEW differences between Bush and Hitler

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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 05:26 PM
Original message
There are just a FEW differences between Bush and Hitler
Edited on Sun Jun-27-04 05:40 PM by TruthIsAll
1. Hitler killed 6 million Jews in his final solution. Bush has killed thousands of Iraqi's in his pre-emptive, bogus PNAC hegemony solution for the economic well-being of his crony's.

2. Bush circumvented the Geneva Conventions. German POW camps generally treated prisoners according to the rules.

3. Hitler rose to power with the German economy in shambles. Bush came to power in a Coup d'etat with the U.S. economy robust. And then proceeded to ride roughshod over the constitutional rights of its citizens and enrich his corporate benefactors.

4. Hitler fought in WWI. Bush was AWOL.

5. Hitler came from a poor family. Bush was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

6. Hitler could speak, read and write. Bush is incapable of a single original thought; he reads about goats when the enemy attacks, but not the CIA-delivered PDB's which warn that Bin Laden plans to strike in the U.S. His only writings that I am aware of are birthday greetings to Ken Lay and a note to the troops in Iraq asking THEM to pray for HIM.

Other than the above, their policies and politics are the same: They are both Fascist, Warmongering, Media-controlling, power-hungry, lying dictators.
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fdr_hst_fan Donating Member (853 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. And, from what I hear,
a coke spoon up his nose!
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Add this one, for it gives me hope

X. Hitler was an effective and mesmerizing speaker, Bush can barely
read prepared text, and inspires no one.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. Perhaps a more effective
way to view the two would be to connect them, rather than compare them. The fact that the bush family had numerous connections to the German war machine that hitler rode to power on can not be debated. The book American Dynasty by Phillips has a good deal of information on this. To compare is subjective; to connect is objective. It takes the emotional component out of the debate, and is thus more likely to make sense to the "general public."
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hitler did not have a nuclear arsenal at his command....
Cheerful thought, huh?
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dedhed Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. At the risk of being flamed...
... I have to say that no one, including Bush, even in jest, deserves to be compared to Hitler, who was quite possibly the single most horrible human being who ever disgraced our planet. Is it too much to expect that we set ourselves above the Bush campaign, and leave Hitler's rotten visage to the dirt and worms?

:bounce:
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Actually Bush/Cheney are more like Mussolini
"Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism
as it is a merge of state and corporate power."



"Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity, quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace."

Replace Fascism with Halliburton.

"Halliburton should rightly be called Corporatism
as it is a merge of state and corporate power."

"Halliburton, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity, quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace."
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Doc_Technical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. I must disagree with you, dedhed.
No one will deny that Hitler was one of the most evil men in history,
but Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse Dung killed far more people than
Hitler ever dreamed of killing.

The reason Hitler gets more bad press is because Germany is a
modern and "civilized" western country, as opposed to Russia and
China.

Someone else in this thread mentioned that Nazi Germany treated
their prisioners well, this is only true of British, French, and
American prisioners.

The way Nazi Germany treated the Russian prisioners is a horror
story in itself.
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dedhed Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Very good points!!
Edited on Sun Jun-27-04 06:36 PM by dedhed
Particularly the one about the Russian POWs! Documentaries and dramas always seem to portray the German Army rather honorably when dealing with POWs, but we never see any Russians among them, do we? And it sure as hell didn't help that Stalin considered any Russian soldier who would be taken prisoner - rather then die defending the homeland - a traitor to be shot on sight.

There are A LOT of people that Bush doesn't deserve to be compared to. Hitler seems to be the most popular. It's not a smart comparison, and it immediately closes the mind of whomever you're trying to debate.

:bounce:

edit: spelling
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. If there mind is closed, that's their problem...
The parallels are too obvious to ignore.

And what do you think about the latest Bush ad which uses Hitler?

OK, Bush is closer to Caligula than Hitler.
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NewEmanuelGoldstein Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. I disagree
The comparison if fair, needs to be made so that we don't have another Holocaust or Hitler on our hands because of our not wanting to believe anyone but Hitler could commit attrocities like he (Hitler did.
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MajorFlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. Shrub is taller. n/t
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Ernesto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. That's why the cowboy boots are used.
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MajorFlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-04 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
24. Hitler was about 5'6". Even in his socks, shrub is taller. n/t
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livinginphotographs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. "a note to the troops in Iraq asking THEM to pray for HIM."
I hadn't heard about this one. Link?
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Here is the Bush Prayer link
Edited on Sun Jun-27-04 06:00 PM by TruthIsAll
http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg105813.html

US soldiers in Iraq asked to pray for Bush
Last Update: Sunday, March 30, 2003. 2:55am (AEST)

They may be the ones facing danger on the battlefield, but US soldiers in Iraq are being asked to pray for President George W Bush.

Thousands of marines have been given a pamphlet called "A Christian's Duty," a mini prayer book which includes a tear-out section to be mailed to the White House pledging the soldier who sends it in has been praying for Bush.

"I have committed to pray for you, your family, your staff and our troops during this time of uncertainty and tumult. May God's peace be your guide," says the pledge, according to a journalist embedded with coalition forces.

The pamphlet, produced by a group called In Touch Ministries, offers a daily prayer to be made for the US president, a born-again Christian who likes to invoke his God in speeches.

Sunday's is "Pray that the President and his advisers will seek God and his wisdom daily and not rely on their own understanding".

Monday's reads "Pray that the President and his advisers will be strong and courageous to do what is right regardless of critics".
----

more....

http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg105813.html
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hitler Incorporated Esoteric Religious Symbolism
and ideologies which were different than state religion.

Bush and the Far Right has largely seized control of pre-existing and accepted symbols/ideas.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I'm curious
what esoteric symbolism you mean? (Not disagreeing, just interested in what you mean.)
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Swastika
the whole Aryan Race/New World Order thing.

Here's something I just googled for brevity's sake.
http://www.livingstonemusic.net/hitlerandtheoccult.htm
.................................................................
Hitler and the Esoteric - What began with intentions of ORDER ended as CHAOS.

Hitler founded far more than a political regime - the Third Reich was an Occult-based Order using Magical and Esoteric practices. Everything which defined the Nazi Party was Magical. From the Swastika to the Order of the SS, all elements were driven by Esoteric teachings. Inspired by the occult writings of Helena Blavatsky, Aleister Crowley, Eliphas Levi, Nosradamus and John Dee to name but a few, along with the magical elements contained within the music of Richard Wagner and Wolfgang Mozart, the Third Reich sought to usher in a New World Order through overwhelming physical strength and might. This was their divine mission. In the eyes of the Third Reich, it was time for the world to change.

snip
Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party came to power in 1933. Most occult leaders believed Hitler was The Great One. The Nazi sacred symbols and concepts of the swastika or "gamma cross", the eagle, the red/black/white color scheme, and ancient Nordic runes (one of which became the insignia of the SS), were all adopted from esoteric traditions going back centuries, shared by Brahmins, Scottish Masons, Rosicrucians, the Knights Templars and other esoteric societies. The Nazi motto, "One Reich, One Folk, One Fuehrer", reflected the standard threefold power circles of the occult. The Reich was the psychic adepts of the Nazi Party, which would build the bridge between the Folk (the masses which unite into a cosmic Entity greater than its parts) and the Fuehrer (the initiates in the elite leadership which unite with Hitler, the divine incarnation). The outer fringe, the Folk, are taught what they can handle: blind obedience, group service, a new history and identity. The Party elite such as the SS are taught something different: psychic knowledge, tapping into the "Vril Force", self-denial, brotherhood mission, medieval lore, fearlessness of death. The innermost circle was privy to the hard-core Gnostic teaching on the Grail, immortality and godhood. Many neo-Nazi groups continue to pursue these topics with devotion. But under it all was the invisible presence of "Unknown Superiors" who taught Hitler himself and who were assumed by his associates to endow him with his uncanny hypnotic power.

....................................................................
The Spear of Destiny

Hitler coveted possession of the Spear of Destiny, supposedly THE spear with which the Roman soldier pierced the side of Jesus Christ. Anyone trained in the esoteric arts know that certain relics, monuments and physical places inherently possess power and that power can be harnessed and used for whatever means you choose.

The Spear of Destiny is also known as the Spear of Longinus. Supposedly, the leader who "possessed it and understood the powers it served, held the destiny of the world in his hands for good or evil." This spear has been held in the House of Hapsburg, in Vienna, Austria, for centuries, and is on public display in a museum. One of Hitler's first official acts, once he annexed Austria, was to drive to Vienna in a motorcade, go to the museum, and take physical possession of the Spear of Destiny. At that point, Hitler believed he possessed the power to overcome all odds and conquer the world. At that point, World War II became inevitable. A new age and a New World Order steered by the Third Reich was waiting to happen.

The Holy Grail

Hitler devoted his life to pursuit of the legendary Holy Grail. The Holy Grail is supposedly the cup or dish used by Jesus at the Last Supper, preserved by Joseph of Arimathea, who brought it to Spain or Britain, and quested for by numerous knights. In occult terms, The Holy Grail came to represent a path to transcendent consciousness. The word, 'Grail', was derived from the word, 'graduate', which means gradually, step by step, degree by degree. This concept of gradualism underlies the entire effort to achieve the New World Order, and it is definitely the underpinning of the Hegelian theory of controlled change through controlled conflict.

The Supermen

Hitler firmly believed in the coming of a new race, the 'Supermen'. He expected them to be a literal "mutation" of Homo Sapiens, achieved by arriving at "higher levels of consciousness". The composer and occultist, Richard Wagner was obsessed with the 'Master Race' and Hitler was hugely inspired by him. Hitler once said, "In order to understand the Nazi Party, you must understand Wagner". Hitler also believed that the new humanity would be free of "the dirty and degrading chimera called conscience and morality," as well as "the burden of free will" and "personal responsibility" which should rightly be borne only by the few with the fortitude to make the awful decisions necessary for the good of humanity. All the world's problems would be put right by the new order of subservient masses ruled by the Supermen.

Hitler communicated with his masters and became totally driven by them. Concerning Hitler's relationship with these Unknowns, there is not much known besides his reference to a guiding voice of "Providence". However, we do have a vivid account related by an unnamed associate of Hitler to Rauschning (both were not sure what to make of it), in which Hitler wakes up in the middle of the night in total panic at some unseen visitation: "Hitler was standing there in his bedroom, stumbling about, looking around him with a distraught look. He was muttering: 'It's him! It's him! He's here!' His lips had turned blue. He was dripping with sweat. Suddenly he uttered some numbers which made no sense, then some words, then bits of sentences. It was frightening. He used terms which were strung together in the strangest way and which were absolutely weird. Then, he again became silent, although his lips continued to move. He was given a massage and something to drink. Then all of a sudden, he screamed: 'There! Over there! In the corner! Who is it?' He was jumping up and down, and he was howling."

Hitler's personal aide, Hermann Rauschning wrote In 1939, an eye witness account of the madness of the Third Reich: "What will the social order of the future be like? Comrade, I will tell you. There will be a class of overlords, after them the rank and file of the party members in hierarchical order, and then the great mass of anonymous followers, servants and workers in perpetuity, and beneath them again all the conquered foreign races, the modern slaves. And over and above all these will reign a new and exalted nobility of whom I cannot speak. But of all these plans the militant members will know nothing. The new man is living amongst us now! He is here. Isn't that enough for you? I will tell you a secret. I have seen the new man. He is intrepid and cruel. I was afraid of him" - Adolf Hitler quoted from "Hitler Speaks" by Hermann Rauschning.

snip

Wewelsburg Castle

The Wewelsburg is situated between the German cities of Hamm and Paderborn. Shortly after Hitler had come into power in January 1933, the Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler, became interested in the Wewelsburg. What Himmler wanted was a religious centre for the SS and the Nazi ideals.... something like St.Peter’s in Rome or the Temple of Jerusalem. He referred to Wewelsburg as "the centre of the world". This ancient castle was to become the spiritual home for the New World Order.

The Ahnenerbe, an arm of the SS commissioned in the mid-1930s to research the ancestral heritage of the Aryan race, roamed far and wide to find proof that only one race was meant to rule the world and that the Nazi vision of purification and world domination was supported by mythic forces. They were to provide scientific documentation that would unite their ancient past with their destiny. Heinrich Himmler saw the men in his army as the reincarnation of Teutonic knights and kings, in particular the knights of King Arthur's round table. He designed Wewelsburg Castle to be their Camelot. On one floor of Wewelsburg Castle was a dark mosaic star that marked this center and over which magical rituals were performed by twelve Nazi officers known as 'The Twelve Knights'

The Thule Society

Hitler was trained to be a supreme adept in the arts and ritual of Black Magic by Dietrich Eckart. the leader of a powerful, secret society called the Thule Society. Baron Rudolf von Sebottendorf, an avid fan of Helena Blavatsky, founded the "Thule Society", a spiritualist group which borrowed heavily from Blavatsky's "The Secret Doctrine". Thule in occultic, Greek and Viking lore was the capital of an ancient ice-island called Hyperborea (known in Hindu legend as the "White Isle"), inhabited by superhumans with psychic powers who eventually founded the Aryan race. After an unexplained disaster, survivors of Hyperborea took refuge first in the "West" , then in the Gobi desert, and later in Tibet; their spirit mentors retreated to a hidden spiritual center called "Asgard", located in a subterranean city. These beings, headed by one known in Hindu/Buddhist tradition as "the Lama of lamas" or "King of the world", can only be contacted on the spiritual plane. The symbol of this "Master" is the swastika, "symbol of the central power of the gem of Heaven".

snip

In the book, Satan and the Swastika, Francis King says: " Hitler's public appearances, particularly those associated with the Nazi Party's Nuremburg rallies, were excellent examples of this sort of magical ceremony. The fanfares, military marches, and Wagnerian music, all emphasised the idea of German military glory. The mass swastika banners in black, white and red, filled the consciousness of the particaipants in the rally with national socialist ideology. The ballet-like precision of the movement of the uniformed party members, all acting in unison, evoked from the unconscious, the principles of war and violence which the ancients symbolised as Mars. And the prime ritual of the rallies - Hitler clasping to other banners, the 'blood banner' carried in the Munich Putsch of 1923 - was a quasi-magical ceremony designed to link up with minds of living Nazis with the archetypal images symbolised bt the dead national socialist heroes of the past. The religio-magical aspects of the rallies were emphasised by the fact that their high points were reached after dusk and took place in a 'Cathedral of Light' - an open space surrounded by pillars of light coming from electric searchlights pointed upwards to the sky. If a modern ritual magician of the utmost expertise had designed a ritual intended to 'invoke Mars' he could not have come up with anything more effective than the ceremonies used at Nuremburg.

Hitler's Death

Hitler's personal devotion to occult principles was proven ultimately by his self-inflicted death. His choice of April 30 for his suicide may well have been meant as a sacrifice; it was the eve of Beltane (known in Germany as Walpurgisnacht), identified on popular Wiccan websites as a Druid feast in honor of the deity Bel. In witchcraft, this "power-point" day is regarded as a "great sabbat" equal in potency to Halloween. According to Wiccans, Bel is derived from the Canaanite Baal; but Helena Blavatsky goes farther in "The Secret Doctrine"(vol.2), reconstructing an astrological trinity of Bel/Baal (sun-god, father), Christos (Mercury, son) and Lucifer (Venus, holy spirit). As for Hitler's suicide itself, this was not a cowardly act from an occultist viewpoint, but rather an honorable practice known among the Druids, as well as among the Cathari "Perfects", those medieval guardians of the Grail, who called it the rite of "Endura". A curious requirement of the "Endura" was that it was always to be done by pairs of intimate friends, a detail known by the Nazis which makes sense of Hitler's joint suicide with his new wife Eva Braun. Incidentally, Hitler's associates Karl Haushofer and Goebbels also killed themselves in ceremonial fashion along with their wives.s.

Magic and reality....

Inextricably entwined into the art of magic is the langauage of 'Symbolism'.
Every day, you will see hundreds of symbols on buildings, on television, in newspapers and magazines which are created to literally hypnotise us into buying their products, or believing what they are displaying. This is 'Symbolism'. A metaphysical power. Today, commercial advertising is the greatest use of the 'language' of symbolism at work.
Advertising delves into the subconscious as well as the conscious and plays upon the knowledge of how we react to different images, colours and sounds. Each image, colour, sound, smell or feel carry with them, different frequencies and vibrations which manifest suggestions of particular things to us.
This is how we say that "red is a warm colour" or how a musical minor chord sounds 'sad' and a major chord sounds 'happier' - they are merely carrying energy vibrations, to which we perceive and then respond to. Through the media we are repeatedly told 'facts' which we eventually believe. This is because human beings will believe something if they are told again and again. If they don't believe the facts, then the pressure of others around them who have accepted the 'facts', will force them to eventually accept the given information, otherwise they will be seen as 'different' or 'anarchic', then they become isolated.

Magical images are being used as corporate logos.



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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Interesting.
I thought that the swastika was likely what you were making reference to. I think the the word "esoteric" means understood by a limited group, and hence the nazi use of the swastika tends to fit. However, the swastika is one of the symbols used by almost all human societies .... you find it frequently on old Navaho and Hopi pottery. It is used around the globe, and in a sense, the Christian cross is but another use of the same ancient symbol.

It's interesting to note that some of the early psychiatrists who had practices in Germany before WW2 found that in the general population, patients' reported dreams that included the military symbolism of the Teutons.

Hitler attempted to gain control of some of the dark forces. There was more at play than meets the eye. I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my question. I'm curious if you're familiar with the Teutonic imagery?
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Teutonic Imagery? Bits & Pieces Only
stuff you learn from listening to Wagner.

Like that.

Do you know any interesting websites for that info? :)
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Not sure on web sites .... but
a book you might really enjoy is C.G. Jung's series of lextures, "Anal;ytical Psychology: Its Theory and Practice"; Vintage Books, 1968. On pg 134, Jung speaks of Wagner's "Parsifal" having a central motif that the spear should be returned to the Grail as the two belong together for "the eternity." That symbolism, as you are clearly aware, is much the same as the "four directions" found in the symbolism of Native Americans on North and South America, or the Christian cross, and the swastika (although the swastika has an element of time - the cycle - which is perhaps distinct from the concept of eternal NOW found in the others...)

Jung found evidence of a growing number of Germans experiencing the same Teutonic symbolism in their dreams even before WW1 ....on page 183, he says that he knew when the archetypes were activated in a wide number of individuals, and were coming from the depths of the collective unconscious to the surface of individual consciousness, that the "history" was becoming the "present." (Any errors in translation are mine, but I am paraphrasing him somewhat.)

The dangers here are apparent: note how bush tries to use the symbolic imagery, for example, of WW2! Anyhow, this is -to me- a fascinating subject to discuss, and I appreciate you taking the time to talk about it here. DU often offers a good format for serious examination of this type of topic!
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
14. Here's another take
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Sweetpea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. Plus Hitler would never support Israel.
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JHBowden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. Yeah, about six million of them.
:shrug:
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-27-04 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
22. Unlike George bush*,
Hitler's dogs loved him.

bush*s dogs need to be caught by the secret service agents so he can pet them for the photo ops.

bush*s dogs watched (and surely laughed) while bush* fell on the floor choking on a pretzel.

Laura has to tie a pork chop around georgie's* neck so that the dogs will play with him.
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