What is the difference between propaganda and persuasive truth?

[Nikki Stone 1]

I have heard Moore's movie called "propaganda" and, while Moore certainly has his opinion (one that I share), he is not stating anything not factual or blatantly false. I always thought that propaganda had to be dogma or belief based--something that is preached and believed in spite of the facts.

If every persuasive argument with a point of view is propaganda, then how are we supposed to present the truth to people?

This is open for discussion. I am really curious about what people perceive as propaganda.

Nikki

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

1. No, propaganda can be ideas and facts, not just dogma. What defines

it as propaganda is that it is in support of a cause, or in opposition to a cause.

[Nikki Stone 1]

2. In modern society, propaganda=lies. That's the implication

Propagare--Latin root--was used to describe the Catholic Church's "spreading of the word". It was about indoctrination as to what the church thought was the real truth, but which had little factual basis to build on. To aid in their propagandizing, the church censored and/or destroyed original source materials whose facts went against their dogma.

In modern day, propaganda is equated with lies, or stretching of the truth in some kind of unfair way.

What about a film like "Silkwood" which was based on a true story--is that propaganda? Or just a thought provoking piece?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

3. Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

One entry found for propaganda.

Main Entry: pro·pa·gan·da
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin, from Congregatio de propaganda fide Congregation for propagating the faith, organization established by Pope Gregory XV died 1623
1 capitalized : a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions
2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect


BTW I agree that the negative modern implication is lies. But that doesn't mean that is the true definition.

[Nikki Stone 1]

7. Who immediately thinks, "propaganda--good"--or, for eg., "gay--happy"

The connotations are actually more important than the dictionary definition. The meanings of words actually evolve in context and over time. Often, the dictionary gives a technically correct definition that not many people use or care about. How many people call their female ogs "bitches" (outside of breeding circles)? This word is almost entirely a pejorative slang word for a female or, more recently, a submissive or subservient male.

I am convinced that when O'Reilly and others use "propaganda", they mean "lies", not truth being spread with a goal in mind.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

4. Basically, "persuasive truth" would be a subset of what is propaganda.

It would also include the lies and rumors etc.

So FOX news and Drugereport, Rush, Hannity are all excellent examples of propaganda. But they have a lot more traffic in rumors and lies compared to Michael Moore. I assume that is what has stimulated this post.

[Nikki Stone 1]

9. That would mean that every essay or editorial is propaganda

And while that might be technically true, there is a subjective difference in most peoples' minds between persuasive writing and out-and-out propaganda. THat is really what I am trying to get at here. What does "propaganda" really mean in the minds of people?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

10. According to your definition then, the answer to your original question

is that there is no REAL difference between persuasive truth and propaganda by the traditional definitions, but by the current usage and implication, propaganda = lies for a cause and is therefore less "truthful" than persuasive "truth".

I think that actual definitions do matter though. You get into trouble when you ask questions based on definitions that exist, and then accept other definitions. Bill O'Reilly's definition of "propaganda" may differ from what you think HIS definition is.

[Zomby Woof]

5. propaganda is a tool

Which can be used to great effect or ill.

What to be careful to avoid is demagoguery. Wingnuts on the AM radio are in the business of propaganda, but what makes them insidiously harmful is that they are demagogues, not just mere propagandists.

[ThoughtCriminal]

6. Frank Capra's "Why We Fight"

I was thinking about Capra's WW-2 documentary. Part of the brilliance was making considerable use of Nazi propaganda film footage to illustrate the evil.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

8. Right, but Capra's film itself is good, or "white" propaganda. See the

irony?

[Tellurian]

11. The difference between Propaganda and Persuasive Truth is:

Persuasive Truth can stand up to SCRUTINY-
Propaganda CANNOT!