With all the right-wing whining, I must say...

[slor]

that MM let * off easy in F911 in many ways. No mention of the nazi links including old prescott's loss of several businesses for violation of the Trading with the Enemy Act, and his own daddy's employment of nazis. And the restaurant scene in the movie, had it continued, really shows the chimp to be an asswipe (saw the whole clip on Countdown a few months ago). There is also much more damning info out there that we all know about. Mind you, this is not a complaint, I understand time constraints, and keeping on message, and really, the general populace may not be ready to gets the facts all at once. I just wanted to point out that chimpy chimp and the rest of his ilk should be damn happy they did not get the full treatment.

[cthrumatrix]

1. There is just tooo much to cover....and would the people be overwhelmed?

He connected the dots on alot of issues...for only having two hours.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. most wouldn't accept nazi links

no matter how true they are.

[slor]

4. The documents proving it are...

already out there. All he had to do is show them.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

7. That really doesn't matter

It would discredit the movie in most Americans' minds. It's just too hard for most to wrap their minds around nazi links, no matter how true or real they are. It'd just come off as hate rhetoric.

[redstateblues]

8. Ahnold Proved That Being Pro Nazi...

Ahnold's victory in CA after discovery of his pro Nazi comments prove that most people didn't pay attention to history in school, and that the people that lived throught it are becoming fewer. Sadly, these kinds of charges have lost their sting.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

11. Welcome to DU!!

We're glad to have you on board!! :grouphug: :toast: :yourock:

More to the point, though, I just feel like no matter how much you prove such links, it's simply dismissed as hate rhetoric and not even closely looked at. No matter how much substance you have, it's such a ridiculous notion to most people that it's completely ignored.

[NMDemDist2]

3. agreed, MM was restrained, with all the ammo available

he was surprisingly gentle

[Sweetpea]

5. After the Suppression of voices a year ago

It is just great to see the backlash of it. Maybe someone else will do that documentary or tv show.

[Swamp Rat]

6. Maybe he'll add some juicy stuff to the DVD release

... causing an even bigger stink?

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. I am hoping that too *g* Maybe a bonus dvd chock full

of tidbits about the BFEE and their junta.

[checks-n-balances]

10. Somebody else has your idea, too, Swamp_Rat!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1877334

Great minds think alike!

[Swamp Rat]

12. Thank you...

and thanks for posting the PNAC link to the DU archives in the other thread. We need to constantly keep this information alive in the minds of people because there are so many lurkers here looking for information. I have lurked here since 2001 and have used this knowledge information by injecting it into my conversations in the "real world."

Having a lot of information at your fingertips is priceless in the world of political debates and discussion. The result: I have influenced many people NOT to vote for Bush*, two of which are hardcore RW fundies. They at least, will not vote at all or will vote for the Libertarian candidate. It took me 2 years of heated discussions, where I had to put up with brain damaging Freeperspeak, in order to convince them.

[checks-n-balances]

13. You're welcome - and congratulations to you for your work among freepers

I know what you mean about info - RW has had the advantage of having their talking points everyday synchronized & distributed throughout all media outlets, so there's a consistent message pumped out there everyday. So the ininitiated suppose that it MUST be true, then, if everyone is saying the same thing.

Wow - two years!! Did things ever get really testy? Can you recall anything in particular that made them reconsider their views? Did you tell them about the PNAC stuff at all, and if so, did you just explain or give them websites/articles? Have they ever thanked you, or anyone stopped listening to Rush, Fox, etc. because of that? If you've got anything of interest, please post of pm me, because I'm not very good at arguing without getting red in the face or flustered, especially when it makes me mad! I've got a couple of best friends that I don't even broach the subject with, but if the tide of public opinion turns strongly against the rethugs, then they'll go along with it.

Interesting experiences you've been having, I'm sure - thanks for sharing!

[Swamp Rat]

14. It's not an easy task "debating" with Freepers.

First, I remind myself to kept an even temper and don the appearance of the dispassionate non-partisan. Then I remind myself of the objective over and over again. This helps with keeping my temper at bay. I then speak to the issues from a neutral position (some people cannot even tell my political affiliation or religion) while chipping away at irrational statements. In order to do this, one cannot allow the Freeper to state something as a fact, which in many cases it may not be, and move on to another and another and another "fact."

Take each statement one at a time. Say "STOP!" Let me answer your FIRST statement (rephrase it as a "question"). Then if you have some information pertaining to the question, then you can reorient the question to your favor by establishing a "new" fact grounded on reality. This confuses them sometimes because they were expecting to be able to continue their robotic rant... they may get angry at this point too. Walk away and try later, or if the conversation is salvageable, ask politely to address each question one at a time.

The point is, one can debate Freepers, or friends that drank the koolaide. The best thing to do, I find, is keep a neutral position and don't get angry. Logical reasoning is a very important tool - that I need to practice more often. My objective in life right now is to rid the White House of a festering cancer. My M.O. has been to convince my fellow citizens to do the same, one at a time. After all, we all love America right?

[not systems]

15. See the Corporation ...

MM talks about the history of US corporations and Nazi collaboration in the 1930's.