Is it time to buy a gun in America?

[Renew Deal]

Is it time to exercise your second amendment rights?


Remington Model 1100™ Sporting 12

[Burma Jones]

1. The term "Jack Booted Thugs" has shifted in meaning

It looks as though WE here at DU could be the next to be hunted down.

[Burma Jones]

2. DUPE (n/t)

[amber dog democrat]

3. I have a Mini 14 and a Markarov...

But I have not fired them in some time.

[bigbillhaywood]

10. Mini 14. The "A-Team"'s weapon of choice. Nice. Also like the Makarov.

Good pistol, but ammo is expensive.

[CrispyQ]

4. I've said that if I buy a gun,

...it would be a New World Order gun. I've been giving it serious thought & it frightens me that my country has become the kind of place where I would want a gun.

[bryant69]

5. Yeah let's shoot us some Republican

That'll work. I can't think of anything else that might work. Certainly nothing in November, say, that might be a better method of getting our country back on the right track. Nope, the only solution is to all get guns.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Renew Deal]

6. That's not the point.

The point is that they can take citizens and hold them without a charge. The point is that you don't have to be mirandized anymore. The point is that you have the right to remain silent but you don't have the right to remain silent. When do they just start taking people out of their homes in the middle of the night?

[Syncronaut Seven]

15. Ummm...

Already are boys & girls. I lived upstairs from the Portland 7 when they got raided, bought a Tek 9 shortly thereafter. My neighbors were some of the first to go. Nice people, hardly terrorists. Why won't any of my ME neighbors make eye contact anymore. I am just sick.

:nuke:

[Romulus]

13. sure, why not?

When Kerry wins in November, the Freepers will be going on a rampage at having "their" election "stolen from them." :eyes:

So, I have no qualms about defending myself from a bunch of Freepers trying to "James Byrd" me as a "treasonous librul" because their anointed son got voted out of office.

[jukes]

126. B-69

They're making plans to cancel the elections:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1892485



what's going to be the next step under martial law? I'M not going to any camp. Northern Georgia is riddled w/ caves, mines, & tunnels.

these juntoists have made me a believer in conspiracies. maybe we'll get to vote, & maybe it won't be fixed like last time. i'm definitely going to try to vote these people out, if they allow it. in the meantime, i'll just go ahead & set a little something aside to protect/feed my family & animals.

i don't like shooting people much. it's pretty ugly, really. but i WILL do what they taught me to do, if i'm forced.

you got a problem w/ that?

[Zen]

7. Got a rifle - fun for target shooting...

Thinking of getting a pistol due to Bushco's policies (for self protection only!!). Boy Scout motto "be prepared" - live by it.

[Romulus]

9. pistols are good for target shooting, too

Don't forget :)

Nothing to see here, officer . . . :evilgrin:

[Walt Starr]

8. That's a good choice, but get yourself a reloading machine, too

Plenty of shot, powder, adn wads while you're at it. save those shotgun shells and reload 'em!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

11. I already have two

and since there are only two adults in this house, I doubt we need another.

But nothing wrong with exercising some second amendment rights!

[THUNDER HANDS]

12. um....no

If the feds want me, they can have me. I'm going quietly.

Guns are bad and only lead to bad things. Just my opinion.

[bigbillhaywood]

14. You're entitled to it, but consider this...

If you are right about guns being bad, then the government is armed to the teeth with evil. Should the military and police get to have a monopoly on them? Perhaps that's not what you're saying, maybe you just mean you personally don't want a gun, and it's not an overall comment on private gun ownership. I'm just saying...

[shanti]

129. i don't care to have a gun myself

but it's ok for you to own one. who knows? sometime it may be necessary to have one, and i still want the CHOICE to do so.

[jukes]

127. Rat man

think of abu graib. think about what's going to happen to you in the joint. prison hacks are already vicious people. w/ no constraints they'll become barbarous.

other inmates exploit what they can.

watch defoe's "animal house".


i applaud your pacifism, but pm me for instructions for a sure & painless suicide: it's a much better plan than submission.



no offense, Magic. not flaming you, just trying to show you some reality.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Had my fill of them in the marines.

What's your point? Going to shoot it out with who? The army? The cops? The repugs?

[HippieCowgirl]

17. Already Have One

It's a Taurus revolver. It's for shooting targets, not people. Since I keep it a safe, It's not possible to whip it out in the middle of the night and accidentally shoot my dog/kid/date thinking they're an intruder.

[VTMechEngr]

70. Taurus .357?

[Throckmorton]

18. All three if Necessary,

I will die standing.

[jukes]

128. i got your back, Throck

n/f/n

[Renew Deal]

23. I am not going to shoot anyone.

That would be horrible. It's about reminding the gov't who is in charge in this country. It's the people. Maybe we need to get the gun count up. I know they don't care, but that's why the 2nd amendment is there.

[LiberalTechie1337]

19. Never

I firmly believe that guns should only be in hands of trained professionals, such as law enforcement officials and the military. The more guns there are, the higher level of violent crimes

[JayS]

22. The level of violent crime is most strongly correlated with...

...the number of violent criminals.

[ronabop]

69. Only professionals.

I agree. Don't just buy a gun, that's stupid.

Buy a gun, and also buy some training. Most gun shops can recommend courses, I suggest courses in safety first, accuracy later. If you have children, trigger locks and/or training in how to assemble your weapon in the dark are good.

Oh, and get ammunition too. Proper training will require a fair bit.

By all means, don't just buy another gun, and keep it in untrained hands, even if it's your own.

-Bop

[formernaderite]

95. Well...you'd love DC....only the police and military are legally allowed

to have guns....yeah, it's really safe.

[jukes]

132. Hi, LibTech!

glad to have you w/us.

i think you're missing the point though. we're not discussing protection from burglars. we're concerned that the administration may over-ride the Constitution & establish a dictatorship under martial law.

many of us feel that we in particular, for political activism, may be gitmo'd. many of us feel that we should act as a resistance to such unlawful acts. hence; shd we arm.

[Jose Diablo]

20. IMO the second amendment is all about

an armed citizenry able to dissolve the government and reestablish another if the government becomes oppressive and unresponsive to the citizens needs.

What's the point of saying the government is for "We the People" if the people do not possess the power to force the government to obey the people and adhere to the laws specified in the contract with the people, the Constitution.

Make no mistake, the only thing that will stop an oppressive government is power. In this world, guns are power. Ultimately, it may come to force. If the vote is worthless and/or those controlling the government refuse to follow the voters mandates, then all thats left is force if the word "liberty" has any meaning at all.

[sendero]

21. well said....

... I was anti-gun up until relatively recently, when I realized that if liberals didn't own guns only freepers would have them.

I am now well armed and intend to stay that way. I hope I never need my guns for anything other than plinking or hunting, but I'd prefer to at least have the option.

Three years ago, I could not have even in my worst nightmare imagined the climate in this country now. I'd like to think it can't get any worse but I can't be sure either.

[number6]

37. good point !

if liberals didn't own guns only freepers would have them.

remember what Ann Coulter said; liberals need to know they
can be killed ...

[hiphopnation]

39. Sorry to see BushCo

make you want to buy a gun. Reconsider this. BushCo are some of the worst folks to occupy the Oval office but there are better ways to resist thier brand of facism than violence.

Violence begets violence. Period.

[hiphopnation]

41. Parts of the constitution

would also allow you to put a person to death for stealing your horse. It didn't originally allow anyone except white men to vote. We've changed that.

Don't you think the second ammendment means something entirely different now than it did 200 years ago? It's a living document contrary to what ScaliaCo. would have you believe.

Violence begets violence. Period.

[hiphopnation]

42. I reject this assertion:

In this world, guns are power.

I would further argue that you have swalloed, hook, line and sinker, a line fed to you buy right-wing pundits and NRA nuts.

Guns are not power. Rethink this.

Violence begets violence. Period.

[BiggJawn]

53. So what would YOU "water the Tree of Liberty" with?

Violence does beget violence, I'll not disagree with you. But are you saying that if we put up no resistance then we'll be treated kindly?

I don't think so. History doesn't think so, either.

[hiphopnation]

54. Certainly not!

But are you saying that if we put up no resistance then we'll be treated kindly?

I made no such assertion and don't believe it to be true. But I just don't see how we can have the revolutionary teachings and spiritual guidance of two people at our disposal (Gandhi and MLK) and not see non-violent resistance as the only path, ESPECIALLY to violent fascists like the ones currently in power. Believe me, if we don't organize and resist NOW it will be increasingly more difficult. At which point, I believe I will take my leave of the great American experiment, if I still can.

But violence for me is, simply, never an option.

[Jose Diablo]

55. Laying down in front of a tank is brave

but foolish. All it really accomplishes is lubricate the tanks tracks with guts and blood.

Ghandi was not foolish, he would not have laid before a tank.

You have a right to have your beliefs. Those that are willing to fight and die for your rights guarantee you these rights.

I have rethought what you asked me to rethink. In this world, guns are power. I still believe it.

[hiphopnation]

57. Hmmm

Those that are willing to fight and die for your rights guarantee you these rights.

That sounds vaguely familiar.

With the above post you jump all over the place to, in the end, defend your belief that guns are power. You are, as am I, and as are we all, whether someone is "dying for our rights" or not, entitled to our opinions.

I'm certainly not advocating lying down in front of takes, either. My point is only that there are other ways to resist those whom you envision as having the ultimate and supreme authority of weaponry and fire power. You just have to be more creative. Having the Truth on your side doesn't hurt, either. And we've got that.

Good luck. :thumbsup:

[OpSomBlood]

106. Guns ARE power.

And we should never voluntarily allow tyrants to be the only ones wielding it.

[hiphopnation]

110. Here we must

agree to disagree No way around this one. You say they are. I say they are not. Good luck. :thumbsup:

[OpSomBlood]

82. Gandhi on guns:

But I just don't see how we can have the revolutionary teachings and spiritual guidance of two people at our disposal (Gandhi and MLK) and not see non-violent resistance as the only path, ESPECIALLY to violent fascists like the ones currently in power.

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

And on a similar note:

"I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence."

[hiphopnation]

84. You prove nothing to me with these quotes.

They are convenient for your spinning the specious claim that Gandhi was somehow pro-gun.

RE: This quote: "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence." which you seem to be offering up to somehow imply that I opt for "cowardice" over "violence". As if these two are our only options. Please try again.

This seems to be a popular logical thought course here that when one argues against something it automatically makes them a proponent of its polar opposite. It reminds me of the very narrow approach that our shithead in chief often falls back on. Why must people be so narrow and two-dimensional?

To reiterate, I am not advocating cowardice but will never resort to violence as a form of resistance. As evidenced by your numerous posts in this thread, you will. Good luck with your choice and I hope it brings you all the safety and security you believe it will. Who knows, you may end up having to shoot me. :thumbsup:

[OpSomBlood]

105. You mentioned Gandhi as a non-violent absolutist.

These quotes prove otherwise.

Do you really think I'm gung-ho for a bloody civil war? Hell no. I would do everything in my power to avoid it by nonviolent means. But there comes a breaking point where kneeling in the street singing Kumbayah doesn't have an effect on tyranny.

Given a choice between fighting "insurmountable" odds and being rounded up into a camp, I'll fight.

[hiphopnation]

109. Your spin is making me dizzy!

You continue to draw illogical conclusions from my words and your jumps to conclusions are of Olympic proportions here.

I never mentioned Gandhi as a "non-violent absolutist" despite your attempts to assert that I did. I'm well aware of some of the comments that he made on using extreme measures that deviated from the non-violent path, when necessary.

Instead of re-writing all of this, however, I would ask that you go back and read what I wrote originally.

I will add this to it, however. At this moment in time you are not faced with "insurmountable" odds. We have not reached a breaking point where "jack-booted thugs" are breaking down our doors and hauling us away to camps. You are not, at this moment, forced into a "choice only between cowardice and violence."
There are other options available to you and me. MANY other options. More than Gandhi OR MLK had at their disposal.

If you truly reject fascism of the stripe in the current mis-administration it behooves you to do "everything in my power to avoid it by nonviolent means". Your rush to pick up a gun when all other means of non-violent resistance have not been exhausted is somewhat telling to me.

[OpSomBlood]

117. I'm not "rushing to pick up a gun" to solve problems.

But I'd rather have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it. Mere ownership of a firearm does not indicate my desire to use violence as a first resort.

[hiphopnation]

119. True.

Mere ownership of a firearm does not indicate my desire to use violence as a first resort.

But it does indicate that you're willing to use violence at some point and I'm merely suggesting that you have a myriad of more effective weapons than firearms available to you to help ensure that that "some point" never comes. Use them.

Then again, I have a feeling we'll just have to agree to disagree in general on this issue. I'll invoke the sentiment that I posted earlier:

Good luck with your choice and I hope it brings you all the safety and security you believe it will. Who knows, you may end up having to shoot me. :thumbsup:

[hansolsen]

144. Ghandi 200 years late and not very effective

American patriots, armed with muskets and grapshot, achieved democracy and "real" freedom in 1776, and an armed citizenry has kept it ever since -- so far anyway.

In India, unarmed peasants eventually won a form of democracy 200 years later and a measure of freedom you and I wouldn't call freedom, especially if we happened to belong to the "Untouchable" caste. The "Untouchables" still languish as near slaves in the Indian culture.

And I'll tell you this; if we fully armed every "Untouchable" in India by sundown tonight, they would be free as birds by morning. That's not my opinion, that's a clear lesson from history. And bleeding heart liberals had better learn that lesson before it is too late.

In addition I assert that the gun control laws passed to date have been grossly ineffective, have not made us safer, and have lost the Democratic party millions of votes. Votes lost for nothing.

[bigbillhaywood]

124. Teach, brother, teach!

"But there comes a breaking point where kneeling in the street singing Kumbayah doesn't have an effect on tyranny."

You almost sound like Malcolm X there.

[jukes]

130. hiphop

THEIR violence will surely beget MINE.

this country was formed by armed resistance of tyranny. i am no less a free man & patriot than those who made us.

i @ 1 time thought i was fighting for my country; i was a pawn for the power-elite.

if FORCED to, i'll fight again, but this time it will be damned sure FOR my country.

[tranche]

88. corporate private armies

I'm a gun owner and had always agreed with the interpretation of the 2nd amendment and it's purpose, which you've laid down:

"an armed citizenry able to dissolve the government and reestablish another if the government becomes oppressive and unresponsive to the citizens needs"

This makes me wonder however, if and when corporate private armies (let's a say a well trained private security team for wal-mart) decides that our government has become oppressive and unresponsive to them. Would this interpretation inhibit stopping this?

It's nice to have a gun and believe that a private individual joining with others can take down a government, but money, training, and organization makes a much better army, something a corporate entity can create much easier then we.

If after thinking about this possibility, I will still interpret the 2nd amendment the same way.

[Jose Diablo]

108. Corporate private armies have been organized in the past

and defeated. Can you say Pinkerton.

But corporations have never seen a need to send a private army against the government. Why send a army when you can buy it?

It is only when the private army was defeated, then the corporations went to the government to save themselves from the "great unwashed masses". And FDR gave them what they wanted, what choice did he have?

Orwell was wrong, as was O'Brien, the proles are not dumb animals. The proles are the real source of power in humanity and the source of power in the government.

The founders knew who had the real power.

[jukes]

133. 5and9

excuse me, but aren't the corporations preety much the same thing as the government? i can't see them squabbling like that. WE'RE the enemy, and the spoils, to both entities.

[iverglas]

112. isn't it interesting

that so many people in the US are babbling away about armed citizenries dissolving governments if they become "unresponsive to the citizens' needs" ...

... the very day after Canada went to the polls and elected a government (whatever it ends up being ;) ) that many of you folks down there seem to think can only be got by force.

I mean ... assuming that the kind of govt that these government-dissolvers would actually want to see is kind of like the one we tend to have up here: one that institutes universal health care, doesn't invade small foreign countries for profit, respects the right of all the members of the society to equal treatment, and that sort of thing.

If the vote is worthless and/or those controlling the government refuse to follow the voters mandates, then all thats left is force if the word "liberty" has any meaning at all.

Ah, liberty. I often wish I could decipher statements like this. Unfortunately, I always just hear noise.

And it always seems to me that the only situation in which the vote was "worthless" would be one in which yer fellow citizens had already rather overwhelmingly decided that that was just how they liked it. And therein would like yer real problem.

Silly fantasies, born of either strange agendas or a bizarre worldview that bears no relation to reality; that's the only thing I see.

[jukes]

134. Iverglas

this is what concerns me:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1892485


i truly hope i'm merely being fearful, but i do suspect there will be no elections. it has happened elsewhere before.

if these monsters are LEGALLY elected again, then the public wd have had it's say & i can live w/that (but i'd rather leave). that is, until i'm marked for gitmo

[geek tragedy]

24. No Ruby Ridge for me, thanks

Is this DU or the NRA?

[JayS]

28. The times have changed... n/t

n/t

[hiphopnation]

43. Exactly.

Change with them. Reject violence. Why?

Violence begets violence. Period.

[hiphopnation]

44. Exactly.

Change with them. Reject violence. Why?

Violence begets violence. Period.

[democratreformed]

25. I'm from the South and have a family of hunters.

We have several guns (and bows, etc.).

[AntiCoup2K4]

26. I've been seriously considering it since 12-12-2000

And this latest constitution shredding fascism from the SCOTUS is certainly pushing me further in that direction.

[Jim Warren]

27. Is it time to buy a gun in America?

You mean another one? Is there a sale going on or something?

[Township75]

29. I already have 2...

but I am just starting :)

[OpSomBlood]

30. What would Dianne Feinstein say about this?

My guess is, she'd say something along the lines of, "I should be allowed to carry a gun when I feel threatened, but the rest of America doesn't have that right."

Followed by:

"I feel threatened."

[JayS]

78. All animals are created equal...

...but some are more equal than others. :)

[mvd]

31. Not for me

Even I haven't ruled it out completely, though. You never know in these times. Before I have such an object, I want to know the benefits outweigh my reluctance.

[welshTerrier2]

32. the power of non-violence

guns are not the way, my friends ...

i commend all who are willing to struggle for their beliefs ... i am saddened to see so many who choose violence as their path ...

[OpSomBlood]

33. I'm saddened by those who are willingly crushed by their oppressors.

n/t

[welshTerrier2]

36. do you think

gandhi was willingly crushed?

carrying your little weapon against the might of the U.S. military is naive ... learning to win the hearts and minds of an overwhelming majority against an oppressor has far more chance of succeeding than a revolution of gun-toting cowboys ...

[JayS]

40. Who is the U.S. Military? The troops are from all parts of this...

...nation. They won't fight against their own friends and family.

[Jack_DeLeon]

89. Gandhi's non-violent resistance....

wouldnt have gotten him very far against the Nazi's if he were a Jew.

[hiphopnation]

97. What is your point here?

He wasn't a jew. Is there some point you're trying to prove about taking up arms?

This is a senseless and meaningless point, IMHO. Say what you're trying to say.

[jukes]

135. i don't know, welsh

the iraqis seem to be doing a good job of it; i think i can do as well as a mujadaheen.

and you'll do what; pout in public? scrawl grafitti till you're busted? refuse to buy gasoline?

i hear ideals, byronic ideals. (maybe you cd poetry them into submission?)

what i hear is an idealist that has NO idea how bad things can hurt.

(sorry, welsh got carried away; most of that rant was intended for hiphop.)

[hiphopnation]

38. What exactly does this mean?

That if we do not take up arms against Bush then we are crushed, defeated? That the only way to resist them is with violence?

This logic is not far from fighting a "war against terrorism", IMHO. Puzzling, indeed.

[Blue Wally]

74. Old Saying

"While the pen may be mightier than the sword in the long run, the sword speaks louder and stronger at any given moment."

[shanti]

131. violence is the american way

/sarcasm

[hiphopnation]

34. No.

Just go north or south of the border or off the continent altogether if the chimp wins again. No need to contribute to the violence.

Here's an ad campaign that's running at a few bus stops here in SF that I'm just loving:

[T Town Jake]

51. I'm not leaving...

...my country on account of anyone, let alone a cabal of fucktwits. Running away to New Zealand is not the answer, IMO - I'm staying put.

[hiphopnation]

52. Glad to see your strong "resolve"

Good luck if Bush is elected again. I'll be watching! :thumbsup:

[realisticphish]

35. Many guns

but they're all muzzle-loaders, except for a Colt .44-.40 Frontier

[GoneOffShore]

45. Just added to the never

category.
I used to be a shooter, when I lived in England. And I enjoyed it. But, somehow, I just don't see the point anymore. Well, unless one has a large caliber howitzer or something similar. The firepower that would be brought to bear on a private citizen would not IMHO make an
Alamo stand worthwhile.

[OpSomBlood]

46. Tell that to the Iraqi insurgents.

And it's a hell of a lot easier for some 19-year-old tank gunner from Cleveland to level an apartment in Baghdad than it is for him to do the same thing in his own neighborhood.

[jukes]

136. GoneOffShore

and you're smart & lucky to have done so, may i say?

i've said this before: look @ the iraqi resistance, they're doing a fine job.

oh, & ck my profile. i have some interesting hobbies. :evilgrin:

[T Town Jake]

47. Voted "already have"...

...Our Bill of Rights, whether it be of speech, right of assembly & protest, privacy OR the right to keep and bear arms, are there to safeguard our freedoms. I believe in all of them, even the much-maligned Second one.

[Forkboy]

48. Not for me.You guys do what you think you need to do though.

But to be honest,if what many of you seem to fear goes down I doubt having a gun will help all that much,unless you're using a single bullet for yourselves :shrug:

[yzf_flyer]

49. I wish I Could!

I was an avid shooter and my favorite personal weapon was a Government Model M1911 that has been in my family since my grandfather bought it in the 30's.

Sadly I can not even be anywhere near a firearm without facing a "Felon in Possession" charge.

[jukes]

137. yzf-flyer

they're breaking the rules; soon you'll have to break the rules. you'll know when & how to get what you need. & it sounds as if you already have the skills.



jesus, i hope i'm wrong.

[Columbia]

50. Hey Rethugs, I just got one thing to say

Molan Labe motherfuckers.

[bhunt70]

56. Not sure, have the prices gone down?

[OpSomBlood]

58. Prices will plummet across the board when the AWB expires.

Counting the days...

[FeebMaster]

59. Why? (nt)

[OpSomBlood]

60. Well, hi-cap mags won't cost $100 anymore for one.

n/t

[FeebMaster]

62. True. But weapon prices aren't likely to change.

If anything they'll go up. More metal. :)

[hansolsen]

61. If you don't own a gun, buy one.

If you do own a gun, buy more ammunition; we may need it.

This from a life long Democrat, a liberal, and a patriot who believes that freedom must be protected.

[jukes]

138. Hi, hansolsen!

welcome to DU. & i echo your sentiments!




:hi:

[Renew Deal]

63. 75% of DUers own or want to own a gun.

dang :wow:

[hiphopnation]

64. Shocking indeed.

Makes me feel like I may be in the wrong place. Hmmmmm

[FeebMaster]

65. Well, you know,

of all the gun control passed in the last 30 years, most of it was passed by the Republicans.

[Cheswick2.0]

73. proof please

?

[FeebMaster]

85. Here we go again.

This is usually a thread killer.

Here's the gun control passed in the last 20 or 30 years at the federal level.

Gun Control from the Republicans

Firearms Owners' Protection Act 1986 - Banned future civilian production of machine guns freezing the supply at around a quarter million.

Bush Import Ban of 1989 - Bush waved his magic wand and declared that 43 "assault weapons" had no sporting purpose and could no longer be imported into the US.

The Bush NORINCO Ban 200something- Banned all NORINCO imports, firearms and otherwise. A lot of NORINCO gun imports were banned by Clinton, but since this bans all NORINCO imports I think it's fair to say that it supersedes Clinton's ban.


Gun Control from the Democrats

Clinton NORINCO Ban - Banned the importation of copies of military arms manufactured by NORINCO. All the weapons affected were semi-automatic. The ban included copies of American made weapons like the m1911 pistol and M-14 rifle. To be fair, this ban was later superseded by Bush, who banned all NORINCO imports, firearms and otherwise.

Brady Bill 1994 - set up the NICS background check system. Had some interim measures like a 5 day waiting period while the system was set up. All of the interim measures were supposed to go away sometime in '98. As far as I know they have.

Assault Weapons Ban 1994 - bans the manufacture of assault weapons for civilians. Weapons manufactured before the ban aren't banned. It defines assault weapons as:

Rifles - can accept a detachable magazine and has more than one of the following features:

- collapsible stock
- pistol grip
- bayonet lug
- flash suppressor or threaded barrel
- grenade launcher

Pistols - can accept a detachable magazine and has more than one of the following features:

- magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
- threaded barrel
- barrel shroud
- weight of 50 ounces or more, unloaded
- semi-auto version of a machine gun

Shotguns - a semi-auto shotgun with more than one of the following features:

- folding or telescoping stock
- pistol grip
- a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds
- ability to accept a detachable magazine

In addition the Assault Weapons Ban also banned the civilian manufacture of 19, I believe, weapons by name. It also banned the civilian production of magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds.

It is important to note a few things about the AWB since a lot of people seem to be confused on what it does. All of the weapons affected by the AWB are semi-automatic. It has nothing to do with machine guns. All of the weapons manufactured before the ban are still legal for civilians to buy and sell and are called "pre-ban" weapons.

The ban was easily avoided by removing enough of the offending features to make the weapon not an assault weapon and in some cases changing the name. For example, before the ban, a rifle might have a detachable magazine, flash suppressor, bayonet lug, pistol grip, and possibly a collapsible stock. After the ban it would only have the detachable magazine and pistol grip and, if it had been banned by name, a new name. The are called "post-ban" weapons.

Come September 14th of this year, the Assault Weapons Ban will sunset and be no more unless Bush signs an extension. In either case, it won't be Democratic gun control anymore. It will either be gone or Republican gun control. Once that happens, the only gun control the Democrats will have left will be the Brady Bill and those of us that argue against background checks are few and far between even among pro-gun people.

So, to sum things up by the end of this year here's how things will look as far as gun control goes:

Republican

Firearms Owners' Protection Act 1986
Import Ban of 1989
NORINCO Import Ban
(Maybe) Assault Weapons Ban

Democratic

Brady Bill

[Cheswick2.0]

96. you didn't just post circular argument gun dungeon logic

as proof of anything did you?

[FeebMaster]

99. Circular argument gun dungeon logic?

I just listed gun laws passed by the Republicans and gun laws passed by the Democrats. It's not that complicated.

[Cheswick2.0]

72. Don't misunderstand (don't misunderestimate us)

It doesn't mean we are against gun control laws. If I decide to get a gun I have no problem with waiting period, background checks and registration.

[hiphopnation]

98. LOL!

Good! I'm happy to hear that. I think...

My point is never take up arms. It's an obsolete form of defense. There are larger movements of peace at work you just have to be open to it and believe that it has the power to bring about a non-violent human race. If any species on the planet can do it, it has to be us.

Many will see this as hippie, peacenik, fantasy land, mumbo jumbo and, ultimately, as someone trying to "take away their right to own a gun." To which I say, bullshit. Granted, it is far out. But we have the spiritual and intellectual guidance of MLK and Gandhi which is a fantastic start.

Progress. Reject Violence. Stand for Peace. Good luck!

:thumbsup:

[jukes]

140. you'll make a FINE

martyr, hiphop.


unfortunately, we'll probably need those, too. war really is unpleasant.

[jukes]

139. hiphop

maybe you cd try the Elysian fields?

big sur?

or eden.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

66. 12-gauge shotgun and a .357 Ruger revolver....

...while I wish that everyone could put down their weapons and live the Golden Rule, I continue to live in a real world where one never knows who will come knocking at the door.

[Jack_DeLeon]

67. I own a .45 1911.

[DaveSZ]

68. F*** Dianne Feinstein

That's all I have to say about that.

:)

Bushco is 100X worse though in terms of wanting to restrict civil liberties and civil rights, so it puts her into perspective.

[RoeBear]

71. Obviously our first and best choice...

...is to win in November.

But being prepared for the worst outcome is as wise as having candles and a radio in case a hurricane hits.

Now if we could just get our politicians to read this poll.

[MrBenchley]

75. Truly inspiring (hahahahaha)

We have so many "pro gun democrats" quite happy and willing to murder their fellow citizens if they can get away with it under the guise of "revolution."

But nary a one of them is willing to murmur even the mildest pro-Democrat word aloud on any of the gun nut forums that stain the internet....

http://www.glocksunlocked.com

http://www.thehighroad.org

http://www.glocktalk.com/

http://www.ar15.com/

although those places are dripping with ditto-monkey idiocy...

[OpSomBlood]

77. Selective Memory.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=245282&page=1

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=249736

http://www.glocksunlocked.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=9147

MrBenchley, at what point do your "assertions" cease to be delusional and start being lies?

[MrBenchley]

79. No, accurate statement on my point...

"at what point do your "assertions" cease to be delusional "
At what does someone sniveling about his poor widdle guns become anything but a public joke?

And it sure Is inspiring to see the way you remained on those forums pushing those "pro-democrat liberal views" when there were slurs against kerry or some idiotic ditto-monkey propaganda...oh, that's right, apart from your little self-pitying outburst you haven't said boo.

[Ironpost]

76. After 15 months of what they can do. Don't own any.

[ArkDem]

80. Remington guns and ammunition...a match made in heaven

[DinahMoeHum]

81. I've given it serious thought.

But for now, if I get one, it will be strictly for sport shooting. The only things I'll hunt with it are paper and clay (targets).

:evilfrown:

[JVS]

83. Any advice on what kind of gun I should get?

Gun buying for dummies?

[Jack_DeLeon]

90. My advice.

If you are going to get a rifle I would suggest a magazine fed semiautomatic.

Alot of people like AR15, or AK clones. Myself I would like to get a Springfield M1A, but they are too expensive for me to afford just yet. If you want a decent rifle at a budget price then get an SKS.

If you are getting a handgun I suggest either a 1911 in .45 cal, or a Glock if you want 9mm or some other caliber.

[Padraig18]

86. Already have several. n/t

[jokerman93]

87. Think about it

Who you gonna shoot?

The feds come for you because you're an activist, or your name sounds like Al Salami, or you have brown skin you don't like rich people killing poor people for profit. So the come for you and you try to shoot them? Maybe you'll kill a human being. Probably they shoot back. Definitely you're dead.

Who wins?

Freeper messes with you? There's hundreds of nonlethal ways to remind big stupid assholes that they are quite mortal, and easily broken. Just need to open a few books and practice a few moves.

I won't live in fear. Even if they come for me someday. I will face the music with dignity, and trust the basic humanity of America's people to restore justice to my nearly broken country. And if they come for you my friend, you can count on my humanity, and my commitment to stand up for you publicly I'll shout to the heavens with all the rest of us out here who are determined not let justice die.

You have my word.

[jokerman93]

92. And...

I have as much "gun" cred as any of the posters here who seem to be salivating over the idea of putting a bullet into someone.

I spent six years on an Army Special Forces Counter-terrorist team in Asia. I'm not a pacifist, and am quite capable of defending myself. Let's organize, use the system, and make it work.

Use your heads! It's not time to start frigging yourself off about shooting people. We have fantastic resources here and tremendous recourse. That is, if we use or minds, will, and imagination together, as American patriots.

Once the first shot is fired, you will never be able to take it back, and America will more certainly be lost. Life isn't a video game boys...

[hiphopnation]

93. This post is admirable

and deserving applause in the midst of this "progressive" chat board where a sad and alarming amount of posters advocate guns and violence at the first sign of corporatist goons infiltrating the annals of power.

They carbon-copy the 2nd amendment argument from the NRA handbook which is ironic at best and ghastly at worst.

The myopia herein is that the very document that allowed for an 18th century settler to keep and bare arms also allows for freedom of speech and assembly which, if used properly, can drive tyrants and fascists from the land with more force and gumption than waving a weapon could ever do.

As one poster put it "times have changed". Indeed. Change with them. Progress. Reject fascism. Reject violence. Stand for peace.

[ArkDem]

104. Let's see,

>The myopia herein is that the very document that allowed for an 18th century settler to keep and bare arms <

I guess before this document they all had to wear long sleeves?

[hiphopnation]

107. That's cute!

But you know what I meant. I was typing fast and my boss was coming. ;)

[jukes]

141. Think

resistance movement

les amis

algeria

vietnam

the iraqi jihad.




open your eyes. but yes, they kick my door, i will die fighting.

[Cats Against Frist]

91. I believe in the Second Amendment

EVERY liberal should own a gun...


in case the shit goes down and you have to shoot a rabbit to survive.

(apply any and all implied analogies to this)

C

[IronLionZion]

101. sometimes you have to shoot elephants too

you know, so your whole village can eat

[formernaderite]

94. Wow it's terrific to see how many DUers are gun owners...

...and believe it's time to purchase self-protection. It's the one idiotic issue we lose so many votes on.

[IronLionZion]

102. wingnuts make it an idiotic issue

they take the very few anti-gun liberals and paint all of us as anti-gun. There are educated people in this country who sincerely beleive that liberals want to send federal agents into their houses to take their guns. :crazy:

[JayS]

122. Those anti-gun liberals are incredibly vocal and can't seem...

...to get the hint to tone it down a lot. Unfortunately, Kerry is seen as one of them.

[formernaderite]

125. Agreed..but some of the looney tunes on our side don't help.

The press seems to find them and loves filming their screeching.

[mosin]

100. It's always a good time...

to buy a gun in America. I have a few dozen firearms: pistols, revolvers, bolt-action rifles, semi-automatic rifles, pump shotguns, and semi-automatic shotguns.

Hmm. Why don't I have a pump rifle or a double-barreled shotgun?

Maybe it is a good day to buy a Remington 7600 or a nice over-under.

[Hubert Flottz]

103. Gawd made man, Winchester made men equal!

Bring it on!

[Lord_Ingues]

111. old junk

I like collecting old German stuff, got a Kar98 and Walther P38 so far - looking to get an old MG-42 (functional or not). I don't buy them for self defense, though; just like old junk I guess hehe

Kar98 is a joy to shoot, by the way. :) :toast: :beer:

[Hubert Flottz]

113. Welcome to DU!

I like the old junk too! The New Junk ain't nearly as good as the old junk! Most of my old junk is hand me downs! When I hunt I use a compound bow anyway! It gives the deer a fair chance!

[iverglas]

114. lunabush's favourite song

From a recent thread in the gun dungeon:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=66655&mesg_id=66655

Time To Get A Gun

My neighbour's car got stole last night
right out of his driveway
we heard the dogs a barking
we never paid them any mind

and Mary says she's going to lock the door
from now on when we go away
and I been walking around this farm
wondering if it's time

time to get a gun
that's what I been thinking
I could afford one
if I did just a little less drinking

time to put something
between me and the sun
when the talking is over
it's time to get a gun

last week a government man was there
when I walked out of my back door
he said I'm sorry to bother you son
but it don't matter anymore
'cause even while we're talking
well right here where we stand
they're making plans for a four lane highway
and a big old overpass

Mary says she worried about herself and the kids
she's never known anybody had a gun
and her daddy never did

but I think it should be up to me
'cause when it's all said and done
somebody's got to walk into the night
well I'm going to be that one

time to get a gun
that's what I been thinking
I could afford one
if I did just a little less drinking

time to put something
between me and the sun
when the talking is over
it's time to get a gun

www.fredeaglesmith.com


And what the songwriter, hip Canadian country guy Fred J. Eaglesmith, had to say about it:

http://www.puremusic.com/eaglesmith3.html

Pure Music: I see there's been some discussion on the Internet among the Fredheads about the song "It's Time to Get a Gun." Any comment?

Fred Eaglesmith: I didn't know that, I don't read that stuff.

PM: I just got clued in to it <by Allison Green, my Canadian music spy>. People want to know if it's satirical, is he serious, what's the deal...

FE: Do you know that song?

PM: Yeah, I do.

FE: Well, let me tell you what that song's all about.

I woke up one morning, and the neighbor's car had been stolen. We'd heard the dogs barking. My wife of the time said, "I think I'd better start locking the door."

I went outside and thought, "Geez, maybe I should buy a gun." And I wondered, "How can I afford one, I don't have any money right now. I been drinking a lot lately. I'm sure if I drank one less bottle of wine, that'd be ten dollars a week, I could afford one. Maybe it's time."

And then, I was thinking about the fact that I was living on this farm, and they were considering putting in this airport, and the highway was getting closer, and I was thinkin I could fend off those guys if I had a gun.

And I went in and told my wife, and she said, "Well, I'm not comfortable with this, because my father never owned one," and I said, "Well, it's me that's gotta go out there," and walked back outside and thought,
"You know, this is the most ridiculous idea I ever had."
But I wrote the song. So I don't even know myself!

[hiphopnation]

115. Thanks for sharing this!

:hi:

[iverglas]

116. welcome!

It does just sum that "armed citizenry dissolving unresponsive governments" notion up so well, doesn't it?

"You know, this is the most ridiculous idea I ever had."

'Nuff said.

C'mon down to the J/PS dungeon to play sometime!

[Deja Q]

118. No. I intend to buy some helium instead...

Won't say what else, but I will not use a gun. Not even on myself. There are cleaner ways to do it.

It's funny how every right we have, except the 2nd amendment one, is slowly being taken away. It's also funny how the 2nd amendment is more likely to assist terrorists than the others... :think:

[JayS]

120. Actually, a garden supply outlet will be a bigger help to...

...terrorists.

[jukes]

142. JayS

you're so sly...:evilgrin:

[mosin]

148. Taking them away

It's funny how every right we have, except the 2nd amendment one, is slowly being taken away.

Don't worry, they've been slowly taking away the 2nd Amendment for over 70 years (e.g., NFA 1934, FFA 1938, GCA 1968, the Hughes Amendment to FOPA 1986, FVCCA 1994). You just haven't been paying attention.

[mike1963]

121. Nah, just more bullets. We have guns. I don't even know how many!

:D

[Realityhack]

123. Let me get this strait...

You are still more likely to accidently gun down someone else in you house than an intruder. Perhapse more so if you are as paranoied as you are comming off.
The gun will still do effectively nothing against the feds if they do come for you except that it will give them a 100% ligitimate reason to cut you down.
The revolution is still not comming. and if you think armed revolt is just around the cornner seek profesional help. Seriously.
But for some reason it is time to get a gun...

Look if you like to shoot, great its a lot of fun. If you like to hunt cool more power to you. If you want to teach your children how to use a gun to make them safer, great assuming you store said gun appropriately.

But PLEASE PLEASE dont go arming yourself because you are paranioid about the government.

RH

[jukes]

143. realityhack

i really try not to be combative in this forum, but that's just naive.


maybe a TOUCH sanctimonious & superior, too.

i saw a man of morals die once. took about five minutes; drummed his heels a bit.

urinated/defecated just before the death rattle in his throat.


ck this post, might make you think abit: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1892485

[JSJ]

145. when the time comes to get a gun...

...I will pry mine from the cold dead fingers of a freeper.

[durutti]

146. I support gun rights, but I'd never own a gun myself.

I don't trust myself with the responsibility.

[jukes]

147. let the flames burn on...

kick





:nuke: :kick:

[Lord_Ingues]

149. Good to be here!!

Thanks to Mr. Flottz and others for the warm welcome! :hi:

I think a lot of gun owners who advocate force as an option do so only as a path of last resort. I'd never even think about bringing a gun to bear on another person except in self defense, and I've never encountered a situation that couldn't be handled by more diplomatic means. Hiphopnation is absolutely correct in exploring alternatives to violence for resolution. I'd be pretty ashamed of myself and my democratic bretheren if the first thing I did was reached for the ammo if were were seriously threatened. I'd be equally disappointed though if we were so naive to believe that non-violent resistance works under all circumstances. Sometimes we have to show the wingnuts that we have teeth too. I really doubt our collective situation will ever come to anything that extreme, but better to have and not need versus need and not have, right?? ;)

[DaveSZ]

150. If we could only get Dem leaders to see this poll!

Ha, and DU has some of the most left-wing individuals of any messageboard I've ever seen too.


And, nobody here is advocating violence.

[OpSomBlood]

151. Kick.

:kick: