can anyone in here refute fox's claim about F911?

[silverchair]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124079,00.html

[cthrumatrix]

1. if they disagree with Moore.....then "sue him"...debate him

they bring up three things while the movie "connects a number of dots" which any american would be astounded to learn.

shrub is "the thief in chief".

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. Who really cares?

I certainly don't. Attempting to refute anything that comes out of the RNC Media Organ is the very definition of "Pearls before Swine".

You can just bet the farm that the phone lines between Roger Ailes and Washington are white-hot right now. The stink of flop sweat and panic hangs like a low green fog.

[Atman]

3. What's to refute?

The guy actually doesn't deny any of it. He argues semantics. Richard Clark approving flights...he IS the WH is this case, acting for the President. Same dif.

The 42% vacation time? Seems like the same kind of math the RNC used to come up with Kerry's 350 tax-hike votes. Aw...cry when your own tactics are used against you?

And the Bush at Booker comment; again, he doesn't refute it, just claims that some other goober said Bush did the right thing. Anyone who thinks sitting reading to kids while your nation is under attack is "the right thing" has their own agenda going on and isn't playing within the bounds of reality. As soon as I saw the first plane had hit, I couldn't leave the teevee for three days. Bush wasn't even concerned enough to leave the stop reading and actually pretend to lead the country.

There is nothing to refute there...the reviewer is just another whining gopper having trouble dealing with the truth. Don't sweat it.

[magnolia]

37. The sitting in the class room thing....

is not something you can argue about in words. It's the visual...him sitting there with that completely bewildered look on his face. That's the argument! You could argue that he was trying to be calm and strong...but that man, sitting there for seven minutes does not depict calm or strength. He looks like a man who just shit in his pants and is wondering how he's going to get out of the room without anyone noticing.

[w13rd0]

4. What is there to refute?

It's Fox News for god's sake. Did you read it?

The Clarke thing has already been addressed.

Fox News doesn't think Moore should have included weekends at Camp Davis. Fuck 'em.

Fox News says that one of the people on the 911 Commision said that Bush did the right thing to sit there and read a book about goats. So fucking what, doesn't mean we have to agree.

Moore said the Taliban visited Texas at the request of Unocal, who wanted to build a pipeline. Fox News gets its panties in a bunch that Moore didn't mention Clinton's penis.

Seriously, take Fox News bullshit spin attempts and cram them. What next? Will we be asked to "refute Newsmaxs claims about F911"? How about the White House's claims? Sorry, but it's a pretty established fact that those with a RW agenda are going to spout this shit as if it matters.

[SpiralHawk]

5. Oh boy, this is so lame-o.

I'm in a hurry so i'll just pick at their opening gambit.

"...in one often-showed clip, Moore claims that President Bush was on vacation 42 percent of the time during his first several months in office — but that estimation included weekends at Camp David, a common practice for presidents. Without those days figured in, Bush actually spent 13 percent of his time on vacation."

Time off is time off. And if you factor in the enormous amount ot time that Bush has spent out on the Fundraising trail, you recognize that he is hardly ever "on the job" of serving the people of the USA.

I'd like to see a figure for the verifyable percentage of time that Bush is actually working -- and by that I do not mean reading books like "My Pet Goat" to schoolchildren while the nation is SCREAMING to you that we are under attack. Bush's "job" was to do something to protect America, but he did NOTHING.

[connecticut yankee]

7. He had to finish reading

"My Pet Goat"

He had to find out how it ended.

:dunce:

[Maeve]

19. And the choice isn't simply A or B

A-sit there trying to figure out what to do next

B-run out in a panic

How about

C-calmly explain to the kids that something big has come up and he needs to take care of it, sorry, tell the teacher to go on with the class and thanks so much, I'll try to make it up to you as soon as I can.

[NYCGirl]

14. Instead of Moore...

Fox should take The Washington Post to task for the "42% of time on vacation" statement. That's where the number came from.

And I'll trust the WP over Fox any day.

[smada]

20. Let's not go down that road

Someone will surely mention how infrequently Kerry is in the Senate these days due to his fundraising obligations.

[fob]

26. Since President is a 24 hour a day job, I think Moore was just

trying to say, "This guy was on vacation , A LOT, and all I am asking is why didn't he show up during a CRUCIAL 7 minutes?" He was so focused on time off, he couldn't be bothered to drop his "light" schedule for the real heavy stuff. Maybe Moore is saying if the guy would have taken the job a little more seriously BEFORE the CRUCIAL point, maybe he would have been ready to DO SOMETHING!

WHy does foxnews hate America?

[spanone]

6. If 10% of the movie is true bush* should be in Gitmo.

[wtmusic]

8. "but there are holes in the controversial film's story"

Whoever wrote this editorial and called it a "news" story missed Journalism 101, where we learn that bylines accompany editorials (I'll never accuse Rupert of being a journalist).

[jmcgowanjm]

9. No one has ever successfully sued Moore before

and he has speared some big fish.

If Michael's wrong he'll get sued.
I'm betting he won't.

Especially since he's gonna be one of the richest
people in America w/ the profits from
F9/11.

First off, the Moore flick is causing spastic colon inside
the Monkey Palace. They have dragged out all kinds of
poor souls with a desire to suck the Imperial bum to trash
the film but it isn’t going to do any good.

http://tbrnews.org/Archives/a959.htm

[TLDHOME99]

39. Oh, please, please, please sue me! (Al Franken)

I hope they do it! Wouldn't that be FUN?

Time and again, I've said to myself, "No, not even Republicans can be that stupid."

Time and again, I'm wrong.

:evilgrin:

[gratuitous]

10. Well, it's a mix of selective factoids and differences of opinion

First off, there's this objection:

"Moore claims that President Bush was on vacation 42 percent of the time during his first several months in office — but that estimation included weekends at Camp David, a common practice for presidents. Without those days figured in, Bush actually spent 13 percent of his time on vacation."

Well, if you don't count all the time he took off as vacation, then yes, his vacation numbers come down. This objection is just plain stupid -- there's no other word for it. Naturally, it will persuade many typical Faux viewers.

Second objection:

"Bush did the right thing. 'Bush made the right decision in remaining calm, in not rushing out of the classroom,' said Lee Hamilton, a former Democratic congressman from Indiana.

This is called a difference of opinion, not an error of fact. Watch Stupidhead sit there listening to the goat story while he processes the fact that the United States is under attack, and decide for yourself (rather than listen to Lee "Whitewash" Hamilton) whether he did the right thing or not.

Third "objection":

Moore said the White House approved the departure of the Bin Laden family members from the country. Richard Clarke says he approved it. This is what passes for a hole for people with large holes in their heads. Richard Clarke, terrorism czar, certainly didn't work for or answer to Congress or the Supreme Court; he therefore worked for the Bush White House. Sophistry at best; naked lying to fudge the truth if you're of a less charitable frame of mind toward Faux.

Fourth "hole":

Moore says the departing Saudis weren't properly processed by the FBI. Faux says au contraire, the Saudis were properly interviewed. Ooops, we go from a very specific charge (processing by the FBI) to a finding in the preliminary report of the 9/11 commission that they were "properly interviewed." "Properly interviewed" by whom? Faux doesn't quite seem to have enough time or space to say. Convenient for them, but hardly a "hole."

And finally, the fact is undisputed that Taliban personnel were in Texas. Who invited them? Faux claims that Moore "implies" it was then governor Stupidhead -- how does he "imply" that? Again, Faux doesn't quite come out and say. Then they go to the fatuous assertion that the Taliban in Texas were there at the invitation of Unocal, an oil company to be sure, but a CALIFORNIA oil company. So there!

Is that refutation enough?

[JHB]

38. Adding to that...

First off, there's this objection:

"Moore claims that President Bush was on vacation 42 percent of the time during his first several months in office — but that estimation included weekends at Camp David, a common practice for presidents. Without those days figured in, Bush actually spent 13 percent of his time on vacation."

Well, if you don't count all the time he took off as vacation, then yes, his vacation numbers come down. This objection is just plain stupid -- there's no other word for it. Naturally, it will persuade many typical Faux viewers.

And it's not just his vacation time. Prior to 9/11, Bush was famous for starting his day late ending early, punctuated with heavy exercise breaks that take a while for one to recover a clear head.

As Letterman quipped, "UNwind!? When does this guy WIND?".


Is George W. Bush up to the job? "A typical Bush work day begins early and ends early with a long break in the middle for exercise," ABC’s Dean Reynolds cautioned on Thursday night in a story in which he also relayed the complaint from a professor about how Bush "combines ignorance of the policy background in Washington with a distaste for study." The CBS Evening News ran a similarly themed story which featured criticism from Joe Lockhart, but both concluded with positive spins for Bush.

Reynolds began his December 14 World News Tonight piece: "A typical Bush work day begins early and ends early with a long break in the middle for exercise. Indeed, an enduring image of the post-election period has been Bush at ease at his ranch or at the gym."

University of Texas professor Bruce Buchanan asserted Bush likes to set goals and delegate. Reynolds then told viewers that as Governor of Texas Bush handled "extremists out for political blood" by stiffing them as he realized they had no where else to go, thus strengthening his hand in the center.

Reynolds continued: "In Texas Bush relied heavily for guidance on his political seniors, the late Lieutenant Governor Bob Bullock was a mentor much as Dick Cheney is expected to be for Bush in the White House. But does that reliance, which extends to his cadre of loyal aides, mask what some see as a problem."
Buchanan: "It combines ignorance of the policy background in Washington with a distaste for study."
http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2000/cyb20001215_wknd.asp#1

[0007]

11. So sue Michael Moore you lame thinking, backward

thinking morans.

Let's talk about junior's AWOL days and his cocaine arrest.

[mstrsplinter326]

12. There's nothing to refute...

"For instance, in one often-showed clip, Moore claims that President Bush was on vacation 42 percent of the time during his first several months in office — but that estimation included weekends at Camp David, a common practice for presidents. Without those days figured in, Bush actually spent 13 percent of his time on vacation."

So because he vacationed at Camp David, that's ok? Nope, and more over how many other presidents spend 29% of their time at camp david. My guess: none.

"The movie also criticizes Bush for staying inside a Florida classroom full of kids for a full seven minutes after he learned that the country was under attack on Sept. 11, 2001.

However, the vice chairman of the Sept. 11 commission has said that Bush did the right thing. "Bush made the right decision in remaining calm, in not rushing out of the classroom," said Lee Hamilton, a former Democratic congressman from Indiana."

-They aren't refuting the facts just stating that someone believes that the way bush conducted himself is a-o-k.

"In "Fahrenheit 9/11" (search) Moore also claims that the White House approved plans for planes to pick up relatives of Ossama Bin Laden right after the attacks. But according to terrorism czar Richard Clarke (search), he alone approved the Saudi flights."

- As terrorism czar, Clarke worked for the white house...

"In addition, Moore says that the departing Saudis were not properly processed by the FBI when leaving the country. That too is contradicted by the Sept. 11 commission, which said the Saudis were properly interviewed"

-Moore said they were interviewed. And since when does FauxNews believe that the 9/11 commission's reports are all fact? Only when it is convenient

"Finally, Moore shows prominent members of the Taliban visiting Texas, implying that they were invited by then-Governor Bush. The Taliban delegation, however, was invited to Houston by UNOCAL (search), a California energy company."

Who works for UNIKILL? Afghanistan's current president and our current liaison to afganistan... Moore says that in his movie.

"Moore also doesn't mention that the visit was made with the permission of the Clinton administration, which twice met with Taliban members — in 1997 and 1998."

FauxNews forgets to mention that Bush I and Reagan propelled Ossama to power and gave him the weapons his armies used to fight us, attack the Cole and oppress the citizenry.

[tjwash]

23. When it comes to the Clenis, remember also, that...

EVERY damn thing he did out there from the Iraq UN weapons inspectors, to the bombing of the Sudanese "aspirin" factory, was met with raging objection from republicans all over the country, as "wagging the dog" and screaming at Clinton as the mad bomber. How dare those jerks come out of the woodwork now and pull this crap, saying he did nothing to stop terrorism. If anything the reverse is true, the republicans are the ones who enabled the terrorists, by their passive-aggressive political agenda.

[Cocoa]

13. Moore has a "F/911 facts" section on his website

addresses the facts that have been commonly disputed in the media.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/f911facts/

[Cheswick2.0]

15. refute what??????

They aren't disputing any of the facts. They are disputing the conclusions Moore comes to based on the facts, or the impression that Moore wants the audience to come to.
That is their opinion. There are no facts to dispute.

[Hamlette]

16. Fox uses 9/11 commission selectively

Fox won't accept the 9/11 commission's finding on the lack of a connection between Saddam and 9/11 so why should it be allowed to use the 9/11 commissions statements on other things?

It would have been a stronger movie were it just an indictment against the war but because it is really a trashing of Bush we are forced to discuss incidental issues.

[Sparkly]

17. Easy

But it'd be easier if they gave direct quotes from the film...

"Moore claims that President Bush was on vacation 42 percent of the time during his first several months in office..." First, I THINK he was quoting another source (as in, "According to the Washington Post" or whatever). Hey, that's how the Chimp got away with "British sources have learned Saddam tried to get yellowcake from Niger..." Second, it's a bit spurious of Fox to presume Camp David should automatically count as time in the White House. Third, even 13% is not a record to brag about given the warnings going around in DC at the time.

Then they go to the seven minutes the Chimp sat in the classroom. "Bush made the right decision in remaining calm, in not rushing out of the classroom," said Lee Hamilton, a former Democratic congressman from Indiana. Granted, he may have remained "calm," but calmly getting up and getting to work would have been a good idea. In any case, Moore didn't lie about it.

Moore also claims that the White House approved plans for planes to pick up relatives of Usama Bin Laden right after the attacks. But according to terrorism czar Richard Clarke (search), he alone approved the Saudi flights. That is not true, and is perhaps the most popular lie out there. Clarke said he took reponsibility for HIS decision to give final approval, but he did not instigate it and the entire thing was NOT his decision alone. His decision was his decision; others had to make decisions as well, including confirming the directive when he called to double-check that they actually wanted to do this.

In addition, Moore says that the departing Saudis were not properly processed by the FBI when leaving the country. That too is contradicted by the Sept. 11 commission, which said the Saudis were properly interviewed. Also not true. The commission said the FBI, supposedly, interviewed those they wanted to interview (not many) for the time they wanted to interview them (not long). Moore's point is that they should have been interviewed more fully -- even the guys on Dragnet would know that! -- particularly considering how many others, including Americans, have been interrogated, detained, searched at airports, etc. etc... for far less.

Finally, Moore shows prominent members of the Taliban visiting Texas, implying that they were invited by then-Governor Bush. The Taliban delegation, however, was invited to Houston by UNOCAL (search), a California energy company. Helllooooo? Were they out getting popcorn during the part where the Bush family's ties to UNOCAL were explained?

Moore also doesn't mention that the visit was made with the permission of the Clinton administration, which twice met with Taliban members — in 1997 and 1998. Fox coesn't explain that President Clinton was not involved in oil companies with interests in building a pipeline through Afghanistan!!!

[Maeve]

21. Actualy, they discounted ALL weekend days

28% is how much of the week is Saturday and Sunday--so even the days he spent in Crawford are being discounted by Faux.

[Birthmark]

18. Really, they got nuttin'.

Fox ain't got nuttin' is the short way to refute that nonsense.

"Moore claims that President Bush was on vacation 42 percent of the time during his first several months in office — but that estimation included weekends at Camp David, a common practice for presidents. Without those days figured in, Bush actually spent 13 percent of his time on vacation."

So if we subtract out some of the vacation time there isn't as much of it? Well, gee, I don't think that anyone can refute that.

"However, the vice chairman of the Sept. 11 commission has said that Bush did the right thing. "Bush made the right decision in remaining calm, in not rushing out of the classroom," said Lee Hamilton, a former Democratic congressman from Indiana."

Gee, a guy claims that he agrees with Bush staying in the class room for seven minutes? Well, not quite. There is some difference between remaining calm and not rushing out and staying seven minutes. This is simple disingenuousness on Fox's part.

[tjwash]

24. Nothing is enough if your a nutter.

Hell, nothing almost got a President removed from office.

[Cat Atomic]

22. I want to see Fox News refute the clip of Bush saying,

"some people call you the elite. I call you my base".

That shit sums up the whole mess. The fact that Bush and his audience considered that a funny joke only makes it worse.

[Stargleamer]

40. I think it sums up things so well that I chose it. . .

as my first ever signature line.

[LTR]

25. Just want to thank everyone here for the info

I'm debating some so-called 'moderate' on another board who seems to be to the right of James Baker. He put up the FOX article with no link. Luckily, this all looked familiar.

What's funny is that the hard-core Bush apologists over there have even admitted that they haven't seen the movie, and have no plans to. I swatted down one guy over there who posted the Hitchens column and ran, and just did with this other guy who threw up the FOX article as some sort of intelligent debunking by himself. The admin over there claims to be a former film student, and accuses Moore of using 'creative editing' to emphasize certain points to trick moviegoers :wtf:

They also call him 'fat' when all else fails.

Yeah, this is what I'm up against.

[wadestock]

27. Most of it is BS and obviously a reach....

regarding...

"In addition, Moore says that the departing Saudis were not properly processed by the FBI when leaving the country. That too is contradicted by the Sept. 11 commission, which said the Saudis were properly interviewed"

This indeed has to be one of the most telling points that we all know about but which the average American wasn't confronted with...at least to the extent that it would foster a real thought process about the Saudi-America connection that is a true part of the provocation for 911 in the first place.

Moore has been interviewed on this one many times...and I can't remember the exact response, but it's a very low portion of the total that were actually interviewed....something like 30 or 40....not the entire bunch. In other words, only a portion were "properly interviewed".

Yes there are mistakes and it is sloppy in parts....it should have been more thoroughly reviewed and possibly reinforced prior to going to the public considering the intense political nature of what we're dealing with here.

[mainer]

28. The vacation % was taken from a Washington Post story

So Fox should go after the Washington Post.

[HEyHEY]

29. who wrote that shit? Didn't even put their name to it

THat article shows LOUD and CLEAR that fox news is a publicity machine.
It has no person making accusations, except the writer yet it's passed off as an article no t acolumn

[K8-EEE]

30. They Challenge NONE OF THE FACTS!

Look, if anybody looks at Shrub in the classroom and thinks "oh, he's doing a great job in a crisis" that's OPINION!

Are you telling me that the White House, in this situation, has no oversite/approval over Saudi nationals leaving the country? WHY NOT? Are you telling me that GWB & CO don't routinely roll over for the richest Saudis, that they don't give them preferential treatment?Give me a break.

It shows you how great the film is -- it's PACKED WITH FACTS AND EVIDENCE and they have nitpick THIS stuff? What a joke.

What about the papers where the WH blacked out James Bath, and the Saudi connections there? What about the pipeline they had in the works with the Taliban regime before 9/11, even though they were at that time known to be running a brutal terrorist regime?

[tom_paine]

31. So many LIES of Faux's, so easily debunked...

LIEEEE #1:

For instance, in one often-showed clip, Moore claims that President Bush was on vacation 42 percent of the time during his first several months in office — but that estimation included weekends at Camp David, a common practice for presidents. Without those days figured in, Bush actually spent 13 percent of his time on vacation.

This is a customary Orwellian Bushevik Lie which combines deceptiveness and omission. They dispute the 42% number. "Weekends at Camp David" a common practice. How often? How does the Bush total of 42% compare with other Presidents when factoring in their weekends at Campd David? Naturally, these inconvenient facts are omitted. The issue is presented without context, which Markerting People, Advcertising People, and Psychomanipulators KNOW is a good way to deceive people, particularly if they are passive and uninquisitive.

This is a technique often used in PR Propaganda. The more gullible and without historical referent a people are, the easier this sort of deceptive/evasive lie is to innoculate.

MISSING BALANCE: (the usual Faux "news" practice. Only one side heard from. Congressman Lee Hamilton has been cleaning up Imperial Family messes since he helped Shrubya get away with his Harken stock pilferage (identical to what Martha Stewart did) in 1991 as head of Poppy Augustus' Federal Trade Commission. naturally, finding a Zell Miller who has been polishing Bush boots is so worthwhile, a good PR Man knows that it is EASY to avoid printing an "opposing viewpoint" because this is erroneously presented AS AN OPPOSING VIEWPOINT.

LIEEEE #2: Deception in Plain Sight

In "Fahrenheit 9/11" (search) Moore also claims that the White House approved plans for planes to pick up relatives of Usama Bin Laden right after the attacks. But according to terrorism czar Richard Clarke (search), he alone approved the Saudi flights.

This one is quite brazen in it's telling. Very common these days when Orwellianism and PR are almost one and the same. At the time, Richard Clark was an officer of the White House national Security Team. Even IF, Clarke alone authorized these flights, the statemnt stands quite firm. If Moore had said "Bush approved..." or even the "Inner Circle approved..." the statement would be untrue.

For those who think this is Parsing, I might remind them (many have forgot basic history andhistory is, as Orwell predicted it would become, is malleable and to many is what comes out fo the TV that morning) how the term "Authorized by the White House" used to be used during the Days of the Old Republic.

Of course, it could be MUCH simpler. Faux just could be lying about what Clarke said. They've done it before. Hell, a Florida court ruled Faux could lie whenever they wished. Don't think they aren't using this new "Imperial Legal Protection" every single day.

LIEEEE #3: The "interviews"

This is a fabricated straw man. If Faux had seen the film, they would know that what was mentioned was that the Bin Laden's were given "cursory exit interviews". They probably did see it but choose to lie because the Imperial Judiciary ruled they can now lie and not fear repercussions.

So, yes, 22 of 26 Bin Ladens were given a cursory exit interview (which is mentioned). Yes, and very cursory. Were they asked about the 9-11 crimes in depths that such an investigation would require for any criminals ("have you seen your brother lately? Did he say anythign to you the last time you saw him?")? Of course not.

Just another PR Lie VERY SKILLFULLY TOLD, knocking down a straw man which doesn't even really exist.

LIEEEE #4: The Clenis

Yes, it was Clinton's Penis which invited the Taliban. No, no it was UNOCAL! And the fact that the Chimperor* is GOOD FRIENDS with UNOCAL or Hamid Karzai is ex-UNOCAL is, of course, not mentioned.

Denying context in order to deceive has been a Key Compenent in Totalitarian Propaganda since the days when Prescott Bush was Hitler's Angel, and laundering all that Jewish Money for his old Nazi Pals.

Down the Memroy Hole.

The bottom line to all of this is that Modern Propaganda Techniques, practiced by the Bushevik Sub-Media and more familiar to Soviets and Nazis than it was to our forefathers, is brilliant and advanced to a level Orwell could only dream of. I am not ceratin that this progress in Psychomanipulation combined with the survellience and modelling capabilities of computers, makes it impossible for Amerika to ever be free again.

The Science of Lying has never been so accurate and calibrated. The Bushevik Party-Loyal Sub-Media uses this "progress" as Goebbels did, except MUCH more efficiently and successfully.

We shall see. I am certainly working as hard as I can to make the slim chance that it will not be so come true.

[tom_paine]

32. LIEEEE #2 is DEFINITELY a LIEEEEEE!

Just talked with a friend who just finished reading Clarke's book.

Clarke DID NOT authorize the Bin Laden flights. DID NOT.

Of course, since Faux can legally lie whenever they wish, so ruled a Bushevik Court, no one can do anything to them.

Expect much more of this form them. They probably started going Full-On-Soviet right after the Bushevik Phony Ruling.

Yep, Faux can now be a fully Lying as they wish.

And I'll bet they wish for A LOT OF LIES.

Who says wishes don't come true?

[hippiegranny]

33. they got nothin'

and they know it. The bottom line is this:

While the expected depiction of Bush as a half-assed, shallow, mentally and morally bankrupt frontman was there, (and we already knew that) what this movie truly accomplished was that of putting faces on real people who are directly affected by his policies. Apologists might try to nitpick about minor content points, but they're going to have trouble trying to explain away raw human pain with a bunch of jingoisitic blather.

Michael Moore does not present new information. But he takes virtually ignored and under-reported information, (including embedded footage that we were "protected" from seeing on the nightly news, lest it upset our tummies over dinner) and connects the dots in ways the press absolutely refuses to do. What this movie accomplishes most of all is to restore the power of information that has been stolen from us by the complicit, war profiteering media by showing us what they (and Bush) don't want us to see.

[Burma Jones]

34. Is THAT all they got?

Man, even I could come up with more "spin" that Moore uses. None of it lies, mind you.

[TexasSissy]

35. There are only 2 factual arguments in that article.

The other arguments are whinings about what Moore "implied" or "left out."

The 2 factual arguments are about the White House ordering others to assist the bin Laden family out of the country, and that the bin Laden's were properly processed before leaving the country (article says the 9/11 Commission finds that they were).

1. The article is incorrect about who initiated the orders. It was not Clarke. I've seen transcript where Clarke said someone told him to do that, but he doesn't recall who. No one knows where the orders/requests/instructions originated in the administration.

2. The article is incorrect in stating that the 9/11 Commission finds that the bin Laden's were all properly processed. There were over 100 bin Ladens that were assisted out of the country. Somewhere between 24 and 30 were given SHORT interviews; the remainder were not interviewed at all. All other non-bin Ladens leaving the country during that time frame were given LENGTHY interviews. ALL of them. So Moore was not as thorough as he should have been in implying that ALL the bin Ladens were not processed. SOME were. But NONE were properly processed, in accordance with the standard procedures at that time.

Moore did his homework. Nothing factually wrong in these two areas.

[Morning Dew]

36. I can't wait

'til they start arguing over whether the book is

My Pet Goat

or

The Pet Goat

These are important issues.