Question for our Christian DUers who've seen Fahrenheit

[stanwyck]

(I was raised a Christian but have been an agnostic for several years). If Bush is, as he says, a devout Christian, why didn't he at least pray during the seven minutes following the news that our nation was under attack? I can understand that he didn't know what to do administratively. No one was there to tell him what to do. But, it seems to me, that if ever there was a time for a devout Christian to pray, this would have been the time. And Bush didn't. Yet I remember many of my co-workers quietly praying after we received the news of the attacks. And "Fahrenheit" shows a couple kneeling and praying on the street near the towers. Yet Bush sat staring into space for seven minutes. This is puzzling to me. Am I being unfair?

[Jack_Dawson]

1. Christian DUers? Bwahahahahahaha

We all know that DUers reject religion...

[thecrow]

5. Speak for yourself

There are many here at DU who are religious.

[Jack_Dawson]

8. Ummm...it was a JOKE?

Sometimes I'm too sarcastic for my own good.

Signed,

Confirmed Catholic :toast:

[tom_paine]

20. Try the </sarcasm off> comment. It helps people "get it"

Like this

SUUUURE Bunnypants* is a devout Christian. I believe THAT!

</sarcasm off>

[Jack_Dawson]

37. Wish I didn't have to handhold, but you're probably right

[redqueen]

2. Who says he wasn't?

Does praying mean you have to kneel down? Clasp your hands? Close your eyes? Not to me.

[charlie105]

15. I'm hoping you are not being sarcastic.

Otherwise, he was praying, listening to the story of a pet goat and 'projecting' calm and courage, all at the same time.
Now, color me cynical, but I find that hard to believe that he is capable of that level of multi-tasking.

[redqueen]

22. Yes I tend to agree

but the assumption that if someone isn't obviously praying that they aren't bothered me. And I'd never assume, because what difference does it make in the end? Even if he was praying, that's really the least he could be expected to do. Getting off his ass and getting back to the business of protecting America should have been his TOP priority.

[newscaster]

16. W hat about Jewish DUers?

Do our prayers count? I know on 9/11, I prayed like never before and not just for the three friends I lost that day.

[stanwyck]

30. absolutely

I should have worded my post differently. However, it's the evangelical, holier than thou Christians who generally don't miss an opportunity to flaunt their spirituality who Bush has aligned himself with by declaring his born-again, personal relationship with God. He is also on record as giving credence to creationism and having doubts on the theory of evolution. So, I was curious as to why he didn't take a once in a lifetime opportunity, during an apocolyptic moment as the leader of our nation, to lead his audience in prayer or ask for divine guidance for our nation.

[pnorman]

18. "... to kneel down? Clasp your hands? Close your eye's"

To Bush, it DOES mean 'prayer', as Reagan's son pointedly referred to a few weeks ago.

But personally, I'd avoid "deconstructing" that episode that far.

pnorman

[AntiCoup2K4]

29. I say he wasn't.

Otherwise he would have been looking down (towards Hell) for his spiritual guidance from his god, this guy -------> :evilgrin:

[cmf]

3. Good question

For me, this is just another indicaton that Bush's Christianity is fake.

[silverlib]

4. God talks to Bush - Bush does not have to talk to God....

That's the kind of Christian he is... if God wants him to know something, He/She will tell him directly. Sometimes he has to ask, but most of the time, God comes to him. If God doesn't correct him or enlighten him, which He/She never seems fit to do, then Bush is on the right course.

[AntiCoup2K4]

33. If God was talking to Bush, He would probably say....

...Pull thy head out of thine ass, ye idiot! :mad:

[silverlib]

42. Amen (eom)

[hlthe2b]

6. Why do so many buy into the fallacy that Bush* is a "Christian"....

I don't know what to term the "religion" that so many RW fundies label as "Christian," but it sure is not Christianity, in terms of the teachings of Christ that I know.

He is a manipulative exploiter of "Christianity," but a true follower of something distinctively different.

[Individualist]

11. Smirk does not follow Christ's teachings

His actions alone prove he only uses Christianity as a political prop.

[lovedems]

7. He sat staring into space "biting his lip". He also does the lip bite

when things are going poorly for him.

I am a practicing Catholic and while Bush has all of the buzz words for his religious base, his actions are not those of a good christian. Aside from his lies to war for corporate profits, he has ignored and even accepted human rights violations, he has mocked a woman who was begging for her life from the government sanctioned death penalty and I am certain he prays for his ass instead of the vulnerable in society.

I find as a catholic, it is your actions and not your words that determine the true depth of your faith. That is just my opinion.

[harris8]

26. ditto

Hi lovedems,

I am a devout Catholic, and am amazed by the prevalent opinion that I see out there in the Catholic community: "Bush may have some flaws, but by golly he's Pro-Life, so he's our man!" ??!?!?!?!!

Have you been on the new Catholic Answers forums? Their politics forums (try http://forums.catholic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=11 ) are rife with Bush-lovers, who simply cannot see even a single flaw with their "man". Arrrrrrgh!!!

[lovedems]

28. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

I am angry that the Bishops are forcing this pro-life/sacraments on the public. As a Catholic then, you should not vote for a candidate that supports the death penalty. You should not vote for a candidate that endangers health insurance for the people, you should not support a candidate that supports war and you should not support a candidate who is a torture apologist! There are sooooooo many issues that republicans go against the values that are sacred to the Catholic church!

It is just one example of how one issue voters are dangerous to our country and there are some Bishops who are playing right into this issue. It has been disheartening to me to say the least. I am very comfortable being a liberal catholic and resent some Bishops who want me to question my motives.

Thanks for the link, I will check it out.

Again, welcome to DU! You will like it here!

[mourningdove92]

9. Claiming to be Christian

for Political purposes and actually being a Christian are not the same thing.

[ChickMagic]

13. During his race for Texas governor

he bragged that he could win just by courting the fundamentalist evangelicals. That pretty much sums up his religiosity.

[Mistress Quickly]

10. No one can say

whether or not he was praying. At least he wasn't evangelizing to the kids about the endtimes, and all should repent, and follow GWB or end up in hell.

Praying is a personal thing, and in that situation, he could have been praying. Just because it wasn't out loud, or he wasn't on his knees, doesn't mean anything. I know I pray all the time, and no one would know I'm doing it.

[Cheswick2.0]

12. why the hell are you asking us?

Do you suppose that there is one list of perfect behavior for every circumstance and we are all reading from the same paper?

I can not for the life of me imagine why you would ask any liberal Christian to answer for George Bush.

[Bandit]

14. Exactly ~ a real leader would have suggested everyone say a prayer

for our nation and the people directly involved. Instead he just sat there. Even Freepers know deep down Bush* is no leader. He is their guy because he (won) selection. Winning is more important than country for these people and they make no bones about it.

[GiovanniC]

21. NOT in a Public School

If he wanted to pray to himself, fine. But it's good that he didn't suggest everyone say a prayer while he was in that elementary school.

[yvr girl]

25. Don't flame me but...

I think that Bush does have a sincere belief in God, but his understanding of Christianity is long on rules and judgment and short on grace and compassion.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a Bush supporter. In the foreign policy arena, he is like a bull in a china shop. Domestically, he's not much better.

However, I am inclined to give him a break on this issue. I don't think that he was unfeeling on the situation. I think that the full weight of the presidency descended upon his shoulders in an instant. I think that kind of appointment with destiny would give any person pause (even ones more able than he.) I also think that he didn't want to appear to panic.

There is plenty to criticize about Bush, but even he deserves the occasional break.

[stanwyck]

31. "a break" while our country was

under attack? He's the commander in chief. He's the leader of our country. He has a job to do. Rudy Gulliani was manning the phones and issuing orders and keeping his city from the abyss. Bush sat staring then disappeared into the air. When he did speak, he was weak and inefectual. See his first speech after the attacks. We've been giving him breaks. He has a job to do. And he failed.

[porphyrian]

35. Mmm, No, He No Longer Does - n/t

[aquart]

40. NOT there.

Of all times and places, that was the moment he was needed most and he crapped out. Utterly, totally. He stole the presidency and then he crapped out.

Give him a break on the day WE were dying?

I was on a blood line while George was hiding on Air Force One. Why? Because the dust-covered leaders of my city said I was needed there. So I went. Leaders lead. George ran for his life.

Give him a break? No. Give him a noose and hang him high. He let us die.

[checks-n-balances]

17. I think it's a fair question. Maybe 'cause he knew he wasn't supposed to

be praying in school. Or maybe he was afraid that praying would REALLY scare the kids.

All facetiousness aside, yes he could've been praying with his eyes open. But God only knows whether he'd be praying for this country or for ways to cover his own ass (a concern implied in the questions raised by MM during that clip).

I don't think his version of Christianity is necessarily bogus, but it seems to be a very narrow, provincial, and narcissistic one - basically one that has been "informed" through a Bible Study program with a fundamentalist/apocalyptic point of view. It reflects the RW religious thinking of millions of Americans, when carried out to its final conclusion, is the basis for establishing a theocracy.

Whether he was praying then or not, he should be praying now. He's got a lot to answer for to the American people and the whole world - not to mention God.

[Connie_Corleone]

19. People pray differently

There are so many different types of Christians and we all pray differently.

But, I still haven't seen anything in Bush to call him a christian. His actions speak louder than his words.

[Fleshdancer]

23. I wonder if God understands him

When Bush talks to the public without a script, most of the time he makes absolutely no sense. I wonder if he needs a speech writer for his prayer.

Then again, I guess this is when that "all knowing" thing really comes in handy, huh?

[redqueen]

24. Matthew 6: 1 - 6

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

[aquart]

41. Uh huh. He didn't do that, either.

Frank Sinatra did, we found out at his funeral, but Bush? No.

[neuvocat]

27. Its called "bearing false witness"

Bush is no Christian. He called Jesus a philosopher, not a savior.

[Tsiyu]

32. Standing before the public ...

talking about Jesus doesn't make you a Christian, any more than standing in a garage making engine noises makes you a car.

[hippiegranny]

34. bush looked like a rabbit in headlights

his beady little eyes darting back and forth, shifting in his seat like he needed to drop a load. that footage was priceless because it proves what all of us have been saying all along; he's a puppet. it would seem to me the last thing on his tiny little mind was prayer.

[Cheswick2.0]

36. oh well...... this thread ain't nothin but (cheney expletive)

I didn't think you would anser my question.

I think asking Christian DUer to answer for the behavior of Bush exposes a certain prejudice, or at the very least an extreme lack of understanding about Christianity.

[kayell]

38. My uncle was in the plaza under the towers when the first plane hit

He rolled under one of the granite benches to protect himself from the falling glass and debris, and actually said a prayer there not only for the people he knew must have been killed by the crash, but for the perpetrators. (He apparently never had any doubt it was terrorism). He doesn't consider himself "good" for this action, but related it to us as part of his story of that day, which was also filled with odd details like the sight of thousands of pieces of white paper floating down out a perfect blue sky, and the crumbs of safety glass later found caught in his pants cuffs. It does strike me as a characteristic action of someone who I know to be a devout true Christian (in that he seems to work very hard to live according to the teachings attributed to Jesus).

His Christianity isn't my way, but it seems quite genuine, unlike the false coercive rw crap that goes under the name of christianity these days.

I really have no idea what * was doing in those minutes, but when I viewed the video, it certainly didn't look like praying.

[aquart]

39. What a GOOD point.

I was raised by atheists. But when we heard that Kennedy had been shot and my class was dissolving in hysterics and the teacher seemed as distraught as the students, I'm the one who pointed outside and said, "If he was dead, they'd have lowered the flag. We can still pray!" And for the first and only time in my life, I led my class in silent prayer. (When we looked up, the flag had been lowered.)

WHY didn't Bush pray? Or ask the children to pray with him?