Serious question for Southern DUers.

[bkcc]

Last night, I was talking politics with one of my very good friends here in NYC, who happens to be from the South.

In the course of our conversation, she mentioned that Kerry needs to do a better job of reaching out to voters in Southern states. This led me to ask what he should be reaching out them about and why there's a tendency for Southerners to shy away from Northern candidates.

She got really pissed off that I even had to ask the question and I had to spend the next few minutes trying to smooth things out.

Which leads me to my question for you:
What IS it that Southern voters are looking for from Northern candidates? Is it any different from what other regions want? If so, why do Northerners traditionally fare so badly in the South?

I am a Yankee through and through, so I plead total ignorance on this.

[redqueen]

1. Not a clue

I've lived in Texas my entire life and nearest I can figure is they want some kind of hint he'll screw minorities a la Reagan.

[leftofthedial]

2. roll it in corn meal and deep fry it

and southerners will love it.

(BTW, I'm a southerner.)

[Melodybe]

3. Most of the folks I know want Edwards to be Kerry's VP, and that is all

[leftofthedial]

7. do you think there are people who would vote for Bush

if Kerry does not choose Edwards?

The real puzzler is to get the knee-jerk Bush supporters who are victims of Bush's policies to wake up and switch their votes.

I spend half my time in Nashville, and I'm simply amazed at how willfully ignorant so many people are. And Nashville is a relatively liberal bastion.

[NashVegas]

32. Nashville Doesn't Count

All these musicians make the place one of the most self-absorbed cities in America.

[Ripley]

4. They want northerners like Kerry to quit ignoring them.

Is it so hard to campaign here? You know Gore lost some southern states by a very slim margin and it will be even closer for Kerry. So my suggestion is that he not write it off, like he did in the primaries. It is rude.

And why do you people keep saying "why do we have to pander to the south?" That's absurd. How did Kerry pander to us when he never bothered to even step foot here? The number one statement I get from people in the south is "What do we know about Kerry." Most people (not just Southerners) don't read up on politics like DUers do and they honestly don't know. They need to see him in person, not just in ads.

He shouldn't spend any more time in Ohio than NC...it will force Smirky to spread out.

[jedicord]

8. You hit it right on the nose!

That's one of my biggest peeves about Democrats. We have yet to see a Kerry ad here. Since Kerry has been relatively out of the news, no one here in Texas has a clue what he is about. All anyone hears is that he flip flops. It seems to be a given that Bush will win the state, so they don't want to waste money.

Howard Dean came down here several times. People knew what he was about. I think if our primary had been held earlier he would have won the state simply by recognition.

I'm am confident that there are many fence sitters in this state, but all they hear about is Bush. Texas will always be lost to the Democrats if they continue to act as if we don't exist.

[Ripley]

13. Yeah, Kerry even criticized Dean about his "southern statement."

Distorting what Dean said. Southerners knew exactly what Dean meant and they were happy he acknowledged them. Dean had the guts to come down here.

You know, some people act like the South is all like the Dukes of Hazard and Kerry will need to say "yall" and eat grits if he comes here. It's so ignorant. Does Kerry wear a cowboy hat and spurs and eat Armadillo when he goes to the Southwest?

[AlFrankenFan]

50. See, that's why I liked Dean

Having lived in Virginia half my life along with my parents who grew up their, it was nice to have been acknowledged. Kerry really needs to spend time in the South, I mean I have this article up on my bulletin board - "Easterner Kerry Goes Cajun in Bid for Southern Support" from the LA Times from about three months ago. I don't know if he's since been there, but ya can't just try gumbo to get the southern support.

[ieoeja]

51. We have yet to see a Kerry ad here in Illinois also. n/t

[One_Life_To_Give]

62. Same Here

The only political ads I have heard directed at the Mass crowd was for Larouche. Its a given that Kerry has MA. So no ads for any candidate here that I have heard.

[supernova]

10. Kerry needs to

Bill Clinton did well in the South because he bothered to show up. I met him in 92. I didn't get to meet him in 96, personal problems kept me from participating then. BUT I"M BACK.

Kerry could do the following:

- Kerry needs to get the message that he can at least make * spend down that Humongous War Chest in places he thought were so safe, like NC. I want the NC Dem Party to get him to show his face here. And make them public open air rallies, not just the megabucks private dinners and fundraisers.

- Kerry needs to visit the troops. Spend quality time at Camp Lejeune and Fort Bragg. That would mean a lot to present military and vets alike. I guaran-damn-tee you they have seen F911.

- Kerry needs to reassure conservatives that they would still be safe under a Dem president. DOn't dismiss this. We have been hammered since Jimmy Carter about what international wimps we are. We all know the truth is different; but marketing bullshit also sells.

- Kerry needs to talk economics. We are hurting economically due to outsourcing: IT industry, textiles, and now possibly furniture-making are going overseas too. And the tobacco farmers want their buy out. Dems should help them make that transition.

- Kerry needs to talk education, healthcare, and the arts. He needs to make the case why these are important parts of our society so all we all have an equal chance to succeed.

- Kerry needs to be courteous and say how valuable his family and his wife are to him. That will play well with the family values crowd.

- Kerry needs to pick John Edwards for VP.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

15. You nailed it Supernova

At least from a NC perspective. The eastern part of the state votes democratic and they are hurting BAD. Kerry better show up.
Here's the facts on eastern NC:

http://www.nccppr.org/easternnc2.html

* Poverty – At 17.6 percent, the average poverty rate for eastern counties greatly exceeds the North Carolina average of 12.6 percent and the U.S. average of 13.3 percent.  Poverty rates exceed 20 percent in 11 of the 41 Eastern counties, and all but five Eastern counties exceed the statewide average.  Poverty rates varied greatly for the East, ranging from a low of 8.1 percent in Dare County to a high of 25.7 percent in Tyrrell County – the highest in the state. 

* Education – The Center also found the East lags the state in education, with the highest dropout rates, the lowest levels of adult literacy, and the lowest percentage of residents with high school and college degrees.  A statewide look at literacy by the North Carolina Literacy Resource Center, for example, found that Eastern North Carolina has far more adults clustered at the lowest level of adult literacy than either the Piedmont or mountain region of the state.

* Unemployment – Eastern unemployment rates, averaging 5.5 percent for the year 2000, are higher than the state average of 3.6 percent and exceed the unemployment rates for the Piedmont and mountain counties.  The Center’s analysis found this to be a long-term problem, with the East’s average unemployment the highest in the state from 1990-2000, an 11-year period.  In October, Robeson County’s monthly unemployment rate reached 12.5 percent – the highest in the state.  Manufacturing jobs are being lost at a faster clip than in the industrialized Piedmont, though not as fast as in the mountain region.  These generally are being replaced by lower-paying service sector jobs, if they are replaced at all.

* Per Capita Income – As a region, Eastern North Carolina’s counties have the lowest per capita income of the state’s three regions, at $20,536.  That’s 22 percent lower than the Piedmont’s $25,088 and 9 percent lower than the mountain counties’ average of $22,409.

I'm sure many other areas of the south mirror eastern NC in these areas. I feel people in these areas need someone who takes an interest in them and need a pol who they can identify with. I believe that the man or woman who can do that would superscede where they came from.

I repeat: Kerry needs to campaign in the south!

[supernova]

25. Thanks for the stats BlackVelvetElvis

I know eastern NC is hurting worse than the Piedmont.

[Wind Dancer]

29. Excellent posts

supernova and BlackVelvetElvis. I couldn't agree more!

[Ripley]

16. Excellent points supernova.

Kerry's biggest problem is letting BushCo define him...and we all know the picture that paints.

I think the best idea you point out is visiting the troops in the south! The south has so many bases and so many Reservists who are in this war or are veterans being screwed by the Chimp. Being a decorated vet...I'm sure he would get a very warm welcome at any base and having him on local TV channels with the soldiers would do a lot for his standing.

[coeur_de_lion]

57. I agree -- I am near Tampa and I would love to see Kerry come to Macdill

Wouldn't that be great?

I've lived in NYC, VA, and FL (military brat). I've seen both sides of this. Southerners often feel as if politicians talk down to them. I think southern folks just need to feel like their vote counts, and that the future potUS cares about their special issues. The northeast always gets a lot of attention, that is a given. The south is largely ignored. Kerry doesn't need to "pander" to the south, just recognize the south for what they are, and come on down and see us.

The south identifies with * because he seems like one of them :puke:

Just a down-home good ol' boy :puke:

Kerry really needs to realize that. He doesn't have to wear cowboy boots and speak with a fake southern accent like Bush. Just come here, spend some time with us, and act as if he cares. Which I'm sure he does.

[Bake]

41. Agree 100%. That message will play in Mississippi too!

A lot of folks here are pretty pissed with BushCo! Including some lifelong Republicans. I don't know whether to expect Kerry to carry MS but he can make it a race!

Bake

[cally]

18. No more time in Ohio than NC?

Why? Ohio is a swing state and NC is not. Guess how often Gore held a rally in No. Cali other than a fundraiser? Once. I suspect Kerry will never come to Cali other than for a fundraiser. He runs no ads, has no organization other than grassroots, and no help from the national or state party. Kerry needs to target swing states.

[Ripley]

22. Honey. Kerry has got Ohio, I guarantee.

I haven't seen Junior ahead in one poll there. If Kerry ignores the south he is going to lose. It can only help him and hurt Bush. It will force Bush to spend more time in the south and expose his phoney "I'm a Southerner too" BS.

I didn't mean to imply Kerry should ignore Ohio...I know it's important. But a lot of states other than the traditional "swing states" are important this time.

[cally]

27. I sure hope so

I do think it's a mistake to ignore the south. I think Dems will eventually be the majority party once again and we need to start laying the groundwork. Many of those states are closer than most believe. I just get annoyed because Cali is also ignored and noone worries about that much.

[Ripley]

30. Actually I am worried about Cali, Cally.

Sounds like I'm repeating myself huh?

Frankly, I was shocked when Davis was recalled and Arnold, of all people, got in there. I don't think any Dems should take your state for granted.

Let's just hope Kerry gets enough campaign money to spread out everywhere and not ignore anyone!

[cally]

33. I agree

and many of us are working very hard with no advice. Sort of enjoying that part of it. We have 650 volunteers in a county of 200,000. Working on a congress race an hour away. Folks are more active than I've ever seen.

[comsymp]

39. Please explain how Ohio is a Swing State & NC isn't...

Is it because The Liberal Media says so? I kinda thought a swing state was one that could go either way~

Seems to me that if Kerry and Bush are polling within 5 points of each other although, as pointed out upthread, Kerry has yet to set foot in the state (and with Edwards as VP pick it's dead even- see threads in NC forum), then NC would indeed be a Swing State.

[cally]

49. Maybe...Could NC go either way?

Only if Edwards is on the ticket? I think SC may go either way but I doubt NC would. I would love more information about this if you think Kerry could win this state. What would he have to emphasize and would it hurt him in other states. I'm pretty sure he will win Cali, but if he comes out anymore against gay rights, woman's right to choose, or weakening environmental standards than I think the state could be up for grabs. :shrug:

[Ripley]

52. I don't have the stats, but you are way off.

There is no way in hell SC will go blue! SC is much more rural, conservative and less diverse than NC (my sister lives in Myrtle Beach and she turned freep once she moved there). I believe I read a Duer recently who said Gore only lost NC by 1000 votes in 2000...and he didn't even campaign there!! Just think if he had gone there! That is a very slim margin.

NC is definitely a swing state at this point due in part to a huge economic downturn as others have stated. My family lives in NC and they're not all happy with Smirk.

[comsymp]

55. Good place to start

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=170x512

Currently, as I said, it's within 5 points and Kerry has never visited, nor (IIUC) has he even run a commercial. NC is hemorrhaging jobs, we tend to be protective of our military, large retiree population (think Medicare)... the Mason-Dixon poll info was pretty revealing, I recall.

EDITED to add that, although Edwards isn't *absolutely necessary* to put the state into play, most statewide polls indicate that he's good for a 4-5 point bump. Of course, a few commercials and a stump speech or two wouldn't hurt, either.

[kayell]

38. Exactly what you said - no one wants to be written off.

[Cats Against Frist]

5. Beats Me

Short of changing himself into a Confederate-flag flying, Southern Evangelical with a drawl, I really don't know what he could do. If he means reaching out SPECIFICALLY to southern democrats or swing voters, I suppose he should go down there and talk to them. But I really don't know how much good it would do. It's not that the South hates the Dems or that they're so far gone, there -- they usually poll 35-40 percent -- it's just that the south is the fishpond of the GOP Civil Church of Mammon and the Fake Jesus. There are just simply more of them concentrated there, than other places.

We're still fighting the Civil War...

(BTW, I grew up in the South)

[Ishoutandscream]

6. Life-long Texan, and I don't understand it either

There is almost a pathological distrust of the north by many down here. That's why I believe a vp candidate from the south will help the ticket down here, rather than hurt it.

We all have our misconceptions about each other, just like many in the north think we're a bunch of ignorant yokels down here. A Kerry/Edwards or Clark ticket would be helpful for all of us in this nation, north and south.

[misanthrope]

9. Regretfully...

...the evidence is right in front of us.

Forty years ago, the South was solidly against the GOP. Why? And how did the GOP change that?

Capitulation to a "Southern Strategy" would rob the Dems of what meager progressivism they voice.

Appropriately enough, the South is a "tar baby" and the only way you can get out of it is to go through the briar patch. The causes of this are so deeply woven through the culture, it's difficult to say what would alleviate the problem.

[kayell]

40. Believe it or not, the south is not the same place it was 40 years ago

much like most places aren't the same. You need to get out more and stop lingering over those '60s era newsreels.

A "Southern Strategy" nowadays would focus on economic issues, employment and education.

Just in case you haven't noticed by the way - a lot of southerners are not white, and they vote nowadays. (at least, in most states other that FL 2000, and I remember how much the northern senators tried to correct that injustice.)

[misanthrope]

66. I get out plenty...

...I'm very involved in my community here and am doing what I can to influence it for the better. Despite such (or in some cases, BECAUSE of my involvement), I have found that the same xenophobia, racial hypercognizance, and status quo mentality that has characterized much of the collective Southern viewpoint over the last 150 years is still firmly in place. It's forms and manifestations have altered slightly, but it's still there.

And you're right, it is different in the modern South. It's more corporately homogenized than it used to be. People are more isolated from their neighbors, hidden behind their windshields and next to their air conditioners. The apathy, complacency and subconscious hopelessness that permeated our lifestyles for so long has been successfully co-opted by the fear mongers and sowers of ignorance.

As far as numbers of black legislators, there were plenty of those during Reconstruction and we see what a huge impact they had...

[tnlefty]

Pardon me, but I'm trying to get over being really pissed this morning...

I just printed out a list of all of the cuts being made in my county's school budget...NCLB my ass. These are in addition to deep cuts made last year and I'm sick and disgusted. People here need to know how all of this crap affects them in a clear way so that the decent folks will stop and think about it and vote against this kind of crap. Unfortunately, there are MANY here who don't give a flying rat's ass as long as it doesn't cost them any tax money. Cheney these folks. These are the ones who need to be marginalized.

[kitkatrose]

11. It's really the stereotypes, on both sides, that mess things up.

I'm from TN and since I usually talk "proper" I got ragged on from being up North, like it's a bad thing to use proper enlgish. :eyes: Now, I'm going to college in DC and people are all surprised that I'm from the South (apparently now I have a drawl and talk "country") and that I can form a cohesive thought. :eyes: He doesn't need to pander, just act like we exist and come visit us (I don't think he has yet) and just articulate his positions clearly.

Although, I have a question. Why did your friend get pissy when you asked why Southerners tend to shy away from Northern candidates? That was a logical question.

[bkcc]

20. I think that she was reading into the question.

My guess is that she thought I was asking "Why should Northerners pander to THOSE people?"

From what she said later in the conversation, I think she's just fed up with the stereotype of Southerners as banjo-playing yokels...and that was far from my point.

Are there morons down South? Hell yes, but we've got plenty of 'em here in the North too. Neither region has a monopoly on ignorance.
I live in Brooklyn. I should know.

[liberalitch]

12. Each southerner has their own reason....

I don't care where the hell a candidate is from as long as they stand for the causes I do.
BUT many of my "neighbors" in this region still have the "war of northern aggression" going on in their heads, It's not even that they're racists.... they are just wary of outsiders as they do not understand our way of life. And... face it.... people from outside of the region think that if you speak with a drawl or twang then you're stupid..... it's dialect not intellect that often defines us.

So what to do?
Come down here, educated with regard to regional concerns and talk to us as yourself. We'll see you're better than the village idiot and you'll be the POTUS.

[The Flaming Red Head]

14. Quit catering to the racist, right wing, religious fundamentalist fucks

You need to stick to your values and stop trying to imagine what the lowest common denominator in the south looks for in a candidate. Give the southern voters some credit for living in the same country as everyone else.

[southlandshari]

17. Amen!

There are some pretty nasty posts on this very thread that perpetuate ugly stereotypes of southerners, as if thinking people don't exist here. We do, and in much larger numbers than most people think.

Roy Moore gets more play than more moderate southerners in the national media - does this mean we are all bigots? Why do we criticize "journalists" for failing to question the Bush administration lies, but consume without question the garbage chosen to portray the South from those same broadcast and print sources?

[Ripley]

19. LOL!

What...give us credit for being <gasp> Americans? You mean we don't all think like Zell Miller? You mean we don't all demand that "code words" be used by politians? (Is that why so many southern states have vast numbers of blacks in their legislatures?)

[comsymp]

56. Well said!

And this Southern voter welcomes you to DU~

[OKNancy]

21. Not reading the other posts yet

I'll tell you why...because some Northerners talk down to Southerners. I've read many times on DU how people can't stand the accent, how Southerners are stupid, just a bunch of rednecks...blah blah blah. Southerners think Northerners ( or left coasters) are usually abrasive, rude and condesending.
These bad feelings transfer to the candidate.

[JayS]

72. What did you think of all the posts? n/t

n/t

[Gman]

23. Kerry is a Yankee

and, except for the metro areas and their suburbs, Yankees are outsiders. They talk funny and too fast which means they want something or they may be trying to take something from you. Yankees also mean change, and of course change is evil.

However, minorities do not think like the above as they've always been the object of discrimination by the above folks. That is, unless you are a minority born 10 - 15 years after the civil rights movement in which case that is ancient history to you and you have smarts and intelligence so you don't need the Democratic party. (Of course, being young, as a rule, these folks don't vote.)

So what do we as Democrats doin the south? Target for GOTV the minorities that will go vote. What does the GOP do in response? Get the minorities off the voter roles so it will most likely be a white person going to vote.


I'm a lifelong South Texan and like it or not, this is it in a nutshell.

[pauliedangerously]

24. From a former Southerner

Kerry is going to have to share his "faith" with Southerners; it's a very important part of their culture.

My recommendation is that he study up on the book of Matthew, specificaly chapter 6. Most preachers LOVE the Old Testament, and use it to scare the crap out of their followers.

Kerry needs to take a New Testament approach to the South and draw this distinction between himself and Bush. He can make his point short and sweet, using Matthew 6:5-8, explaining that faith is personal...Jesus says so, and that only hypocrites go around professing their faith to support their actions. Then he can move on to real political issues that affect ordinary people.

I lived as an atheist in Texas and Virginia for a total of seventeen years. I have been approached hundreds of times and questioned about my beliefs. People are usually taken aback when I tell them I have no beliefs, but when I tell them I've read the Bible cover to cover and can discuss the teachings of Christ with them in a respectful manner, the conversation usually warms up and they are left with the impression that I am a "seeker of truth" and that God has a special plan for me.

They respect me for my honesty, and they understand my doubts about the "supernatural" claims made in the Bible...Kerry doesn't need to go there because he belongs to a church.

[merh]

26. It will be tough in Mississippi - repukes control

Mississippians like to be asked by the candidate for their vote, door to door campaigning has always been much more effective than ads, though ads are now being generated by special interest groups that appeal to the conservatives of the state, family values, moral, religion, etc. No one in Mississippi knows what Kerry has to offer. When you discuss the our nation's situation and how precarious things are they simply ask what will Kerry do that will be any different.

Education and medicare/medicaid in the state are very hot topics. The federal tax rebates cut federal funds to the state coffers that in turn lead to cuts in education. The teachers unions are strong here. They don't like the way our GOP gov suckered them and then slammed 'em. They need to be reached out to. The no child left behind is a sham, they know it and they are stuck with it.

The media is all pro GOP - slants like crazy, they are very lazy and want the info feed to them so repukes job is easy.

I have also noticed how the repukes have taken over the Chambers of Commerce in this state. Each are members of the State Chamber of Commerce which is a member of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. If you will recall, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce pumps millions of dollars into conservative candidates races by airing t.v. ads that are public service ads touting the record of their candidates. Go to the U.S. Chambers site and you will see how it mirrors GOP platforms.

In the old days the Chambers were organizations to help the small business owners promote their businesses. Now the meetings are GOP stomping grounds - tort reform, economic interests of the corporations, free trade, deregulation, capitalism, etc. Its the pyramid scheme, members join and pay to be a part in the hopes that they can reach platinum or gold levels. They have been duped, but their desire to be rich blinds them to the failings.

IMHO

[Jacobin]

28. Do you remember a guy who ran for prez recently named Bill?

what a silly question your post posits.

[jdsmith]

31. Arkansas is not ENTIRELY southern

which is part of Larry McMurtry's argument in the NYT: that Clinton is part- Southern, part-Midwestern, with divided regional loyalties and traits.

That's part of the problem for many non-Southerners: they see a monolithic "South." But many Southerners from my home state (SC) do not even recognize Arkansas or Oklahoma as "THE South." Instead, we see many differences and wonder whether anyone is really paying enough attention to tell the difference.

Southerners love it (hate it so much they love it) when they hear a Hollywood actor say "Fust Ah'm gone take a showah, then Ah'm gone out the doah, y'all"--whether he's supposed to be from Charleston, Birmingham, or Roanoke.

[Jacobin]

63. Louisiana is not ENTIRELY southern either

Look at New Orleans. It's a mixture of European and Carribean. It's bright blue.

The suburbs of New Orleans are like the suburbs of Atlanta, bright red.

North Louisiana is like Alabama.

Southwestern Louisiana is politically slightly blue.

The cajun coast is definitely blue.



It makes as much sense to attempt to homogonize and generalize about the south as it does to do the same for New York State.

Which again, is why I question the post. "What do southerners really want"

[bkcc]

71. Maybe not entirely accurate, but hardly silly.

The South (whatever you define that to be) may not think of Clinton and Arkansas as Southern, but they're definitely not Northern.

Reading all the responses to my initial post has given me new insight into the North/South issue. I appreciate everyone's input.

[TexasSissy]

34. There have been posts asking this before. But,.....

at the risk of repeating myself....

I've lived in Dallas TX a long time, but I consider that the southwest, not the deep south that most people mean when they say "south."

BUT I was born, raised in, and lived a long time in south Louisiana, and that IS the deep south.

First, Kerry should not say anything stupid about or to southerners (like, "Hey, I LIKE confederate flags! How 'bout you all?")

The reason that I think southerners prefer other southerners (just a preference, and that is not ALWAYS true) is because there is a prejudice against southerners coming from other parts of the country. It is merely a reaction; not a proactive stance.

Many northerners seem to feel that the U.S. consists of the northeast part, the west, then there's middle America, and there's Florida. Oh, and now there's a southwest. But somewhere at the bottom is that much maligned "south." They seem to think of southerners as backwards, and their accents as proof of that.

But if a northerner convinces southerners that s/he doesn't think those things of the south, southerners don't really care where that person is from.

Example: Howard Dean lost the south, IMO, when he made the confederate flag on pickup trucks comment about southerners. Until that time, I hadn't thought of him as a yankee. When he made that statement, however, I said to myself, "Oh,yeah. That's right. He's a yankee....and from the northeast, at that." It reminded me that HE is biased (not that southerners were biased against him).

[MundoQueGanar]

35. born and raised in the south, of parents who were born and raised in the s

...and so on.

Listen--I'm not saying there aren't historical and cultural differences btw the north and south, but I think people make them out to be more than they really are. (I'm assuming your friend was referring to Southern whites.) I think it's generally true that working class whites throughout the US are targeted for ideological training in racism against non-whites--and that's not particular to the south. (Malcolm X once said that when he says "The South is racist" he means south of the Canadian border. It is also true that movements that fought to unite people across racial lines in CLASS solidarity have been met with savage repression in the South.

That said, Kerry is like every other major-party presidential candidate before him--he seeks to uphold the rule of the ruling class, and he will pretend to be a "man of the people" in order to do that. That's where the cultural differences come into play, and ONLY there. If you try and pretend to be something you're not, people will see through it. Kerry, being from the north, can't exactly pull off the "southern redneck" thing too well. So there he couldn't pull the wool over someone's eyes as easily as a SOUTHERN bullshit artist, like Bill Clinton or George W. Bush.

However, I think it's true that someone who tells the TRUTH (i.e., not a bullshitting politician) will get a fair hearing from all KINDS of people in the south, north, and everywhere else.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

36. It's the voice inflection, attitude, and positions of Northern politicians

Southerners are traditionally a cagy lot and very distrustful of social change. At the heart, I think that there's an undercurrent of fear in Southerners about social change that fuels the distrust of Northern politicians.

JB

[kayell]

37. Same as most people - RESPECT

and it wouldn't hurt for people to realize that the south is a pretty diverse place, and not sterotype us all as some '50s era redneck they saw on tv. It's hard not to be a bit bristly when that is a constant stereotype. People here on DU who have been liberals all their lives deal with it constantly from our fellow DUers. It is infuriating, and I don't have an automatic distrust of northerners as many do, since I am the product of a mixed marriage (southerner/yankee)

And very, very wierdly, a lot of northerners don't seem to realize that there are an awful lot of non-white voters in the south. :shrug: Probably the same sort as the Dem senators that weren't bothered by the FL vote stealing.

AND Economic Issues
One reason the civil war is still such a big deal down here still is that the area has never fully recovered from the economic devastation. During reconstruction, a lot of people tried to make the south suffer for what they did. Then carpet baggers moved in. Then the mills turned EVERYONE into slaves and really laid on the religion as a control measure. Add in a horrible education system designed to keep the south as a cheap labor region, then follow that up with the modern corporations realizing that there are even cheaper places in a global economy.

You can get almost anyone down here to agree that the rich just get richer, that corporations are a problem, etc. People know all this and hate it. A lot of people don't even vote just because they know that things will essentially stay the same for them - that their lives will continue to be lived on the margin. They need someone to respect them, and give them hope that this can change. I think a dem can do this if they work at it. Having Edwards on the ticket would probably help, because people would be more able to hear his message, since they are not automatically distrusting him as many have learned to distrust northerners who have sterotyped them.



By the way, about those black FL disenfranchised voters, the northern dems need to start paying attention to their base, unless the dems base is now the same as *s - the "have mores".

[JayS]

70. "mixed marriage (southerner/yankee)"

This is legal? :)

[PopSixSquish]

42. The South has a Strong Democratic Tradition

and some great Democratic politicians. The flying monkey right has done a good job of convincing folks to vote against their best interest. And yes, they've done this by pandering to the worst in people. But if Democratic Presidential candidates continue to ignore the South, we're never gonna get it back.

The South is not some monolithic, single voting block. There are lots of liberal, progressive folks down here. Particularly people like my father who proudly calls himself "a Roosevelt Democrat".

But he feels like the party has abandoned it's progressive roots and it's base. And don't get him started on how both political parties have treated minorities and the poor.

No one ever complains about the "retail politicking" that goes on in states like Iowa and New Hampshire. Presidential candidates come to these states and talk to the voters as it should be. Many in the South, simply want that same thing. We are taught growing up to talk to people, to listen to what they say, to build relationships and coalitions on compromise and trust.

And if Senator Kerry doesn't campaign "down here", how are "we" going to get to know him and to trust him?

[kayell]

43. "how both political parties have treated minorities and the poor"

This is a big part of it right there. Southerners often sense rejection from northerners because of education level, the fact that many southerners work factory jobs, don't dress fashionably, are "country". All these go back to southerners are not as well off as the rest of the country. So northern pols don't consider the south worth their time. And the dems, who used to care about economic justice, appear not to be concerned about that too much anymore.

[Dob Bole]

44. Amen. And don't use Bill Clinton as a standard-bearer

Southerners hate Clinton. Don't be fooled by the fact that he carried some states in '96. Gore's loss of the South was a rejection of Clinton. For one thing, religious people were appalled at the Lewinsky scandal. And everybody blames NAFTA on Clinton, when it was Bush who masterminded it. He never should have gone along with it. My home state of Georgia was carried twice by Carter and by Clinton in 1992. But becuase of Clinton don't expect that to happen again.

[JayS]

45. Clinton was well liked here in '92 but less so in '93 and less in '94...nt

n/t

[blindpig]

46. offer them something that the repubs don't........jobs!

If Kerry would come out strong for Fair trade and seriously attack NAFTA and GATT much traction could be had. You've got to give people something tangible to vote FOR. Bread & butter will trump a lot of this culture war bs.But Kerry, well.....yeah, I'm dreaming.

[JayS]

47. I think we are looking for nothing from Northern candidates...

...because we don't want Northern candidates. On some issues the Northern candidate may match what we want but on other things we could not be farther apart.

I think that one of the most offensive things a candidate can do is to make like he/she is one of us. This is so incredibly fake and bolsters the idea that the candidate is a fake. My advice to a candidate trying to win down here is to just be himself/herself. If we like you, we will vote for you, otherwise we won't.

Taking Kerry as an example we see him running in a national race with a New England campaign strategy...and it looks odd. Some of the rules and regulations, either proposed or already in existence, that a New Englander would like are totally foreign to us. We look at Kerry's feigned support for the Second Amendment and he looks so phony. We spot the "inaccuracies" on his statement about various firearm's issues and wonder what else this guy is not telling us.

And if you are a Northern politician, never say that the South votes God and Guns; this shows that you know nothing about us.

[AlFrankenFan]

53. Amen!! n/t

[democratreformed]

48. As a Southerner,

I would say that economic concerns are a big factor down here. We traditionally have some of the poorest states in the union. We also have some of the highest crime rates and other "bad" things - such as teen pregnancy, failing schools, and drug incarcerations.

For the most part, personally, I believe that most Southerners just feel that they are left out. All of the attention seems to be focused on others areas of the country. That is where most of the visits, fundraisers, etc. take place.

I am really excited about JK's visit to Arkansas and about future anticipated visits. I think that will make a difference.

Also, agriculture is a BIG issue down here. Our economy pretty much revolves around it in a big portion of the area.

[Tsiyu]

58. What The Hell?

Really, it should not matter where a candidate is from. IF ( a big if )Southerners are picking candidates based on which region of the country they hail from, they really should be classified as idiots. There's nothing else to say.
As a Yankee who has lived ( and been tormented in the South - guess I better get ready for some GO-BACK-WHERE-YOU-CAME-FROM flames) I can say that it is a diverse population. My area is 98% Caucasion ( mixed with black, native American though ) but also staunchly democratic, so it ain't the race thing here.
Can you say Southern Baptist Convention? This lovely little organization claims many sheep, and they will vote their preacher's choice. It may be that the only way this is overridden is if a Southerner runs. I dunno. But I'm sick to death of Southerners who don't want to join the Union yet. You lost. Get over it and let's get our country back together instead of playing these petty regional parlor games. THIS is one of my biggest pet peeves, and I have been ridiculed, harassed and threatened for being from New York so understand my pissiness. Folks in rural areas of the South are actually more tolerant than in Yuppie enclaves like Atlanta, as amazing as that may seem, so I live in a rural area and get along wiht most everyone very well....

[JayS]

59. By and large, people vote for the person that will best...

...represent their interests. In most areas, a Northern candidate would fit the bill...in spite of talking funny. :) In a few other areas, a Northern candidate does not fit the bill and this kills the deal, so to speak. No matter how hard someone from the South tries to explain what is wrong, it never does any good, so we just wait four years and try for someone better.

[democratreformed]

60. How in the hell did you get that notion from what I wrote??????

I don't see anything in what I wrote that says he has to be from here or there or wherever. I DID say we want him to care about our issues AND visit here AND give us some attention.

NOW WHERE does that say we care where he is FROM????? You have insulted me and I DO NOT aprreciate it.

On edit: I went back and re-read MY post. I don't see ANY reference in there about us caring about where a candidate "hails from". Maybe you meant to respond to someone else's post who did imply that.

My response to your response is the same as yours: WHAT THE HELL????

[Tsiyu]

64. Peace

I was indeed responding to another post and hit the wrong one. You said nothing to indicate this "don't pick a Yankee just 'cuz crap" but others have. And it makes me SICK to keep hearing it. So sorry. That's what the hell.....

[democratreformed]

65. LOL!

I understand. I have seen it posted by others as well. I just couldn't understand how you read that into my post. It gets on my nerves too. It also gets on my nerves when they say we can't win down here. By damn, we can if we work hard enough.

Thanks for your reply.

[ericf]

54. Simple

Here in Mississippi (at least on the coast), candidates like John Kerry are seen as uppity.

For a lot of Southern 'Mericans, they just can't relate to politicians who come from states like MA. That's not meant to be insulting, it's just how people down here feel. It's not fair at all, but when Southerners are faced with voting for a fake bastard like Bush and a Northener like John Kerry, they'll choose Bush everytime because they feel like they can "relate" to Bush more.

It's all a shame, really, as we vote against our own interests everytime. But people down here will keep doing it as long as our nominee is from a state like MA.

The really sad part is that here in Mississippi, we just voted in former RNC chairman Haley Barbour. He's getting ready to gut Medicaid, and people are screaming that they're going to die without coverage. Barbour essentially said in the campaign that he would do this.

But people in this state still voted for him. Why? Because they didn't want one of those damned lib-rul Democrats in office!

Tragic, isn't it?

[merh]

73. Funny thing is, Barbour could be the best thing that happened

in Mississippi as far as this election goes. He has caused the education budgets to be cut and is responsible for the Medicaid cuts so residents that would have been gungho GOP are having second thoughts. Kerry needs to let the people of Mississippi know what he will do for them. He needs to come here and ask for the votes and take a stand on the issues that count here - jobs, medicaid (hospitalization and prescription costs), education. If he comes to the state and asks for votes he can get them.

I hope Barbour asks Bush to come here. The two of them together sure would hurt Bush. Barbour has been in office only 6 months and many hate to admit they voted for him already.

The key question is what can Kerry do that is any different from Bush. And for heaven's sake that no child left behind has got to go with bush.

ps: IMHO it wasn't that the South lost the Civil War that has resulted in a good many southerns disliking/distrusting Yankees. It was the carpetbaggers who came into the South to make their fortunes after the war, a good many of whom were northerners who made promises but never kept them. A southern may forgive, but a southerner rarely forgets.

[chaska]

61. I'm a Southerner...

"What IS it that Southern voters are looking for from Northern candidates?" Southerners have been brainwashed. They simply will not vote for anyone that can even be accused of being liberal, or from Mass., or the North for that matter. We will likely get 35-40 % of the vote in most Southern states. We will not likely win any of them. Fla. is not a Southern state (except geographically). We stand a chance there. If Clark is on the ticket we win Arkansas, otherwise.... Edwards can't deliver NC or SC, incidentally (I'm from SC). Forget winning in the South, ain't gonna happen.

[JayS]

67. The South will vote for a Liberal if it is the right one. n/t

n/t

[carolinayellowdog]

68. Deep South vs. Upper South

Hey,

Normally in these threads it's the Northerners' generalizations I find most irritating. But in this one I see an Alabamian and a Georgian opining about the hopelessness of "the South" in this election.

As a native Virginian who went to college in Louisiana and now lives mostly in North Carolina, I resent people from hopeless states spewing their hopelessness over the rest of us Southerners. That's just as much of a bummer as Yankees doing the same thing. VA, NC, LA, AR, and maybe TN (and of course FL) are winnable and those of us who live here are better judges of that than either Yankees or Southerners from the hopeless states.

No one asks about the general hopelessness of Midwesterners on the basis of the fact that KS, NB, IN, ND, and SD are hopeless. Elections are won state by state, not by region.

CYD

[Ripley]

69. Yessiree Bob.

I noticed that too. Funny how people don't even know how close to blue their state really is. Now me, I know. Alabama isn't even close to blue. But looking at polls just today, it may be a tiny bit more purple than red. Polls show only 40% think the world is safer from terrorism since we invaded Iraq (down from 75% during the Mission Accomplished stunt). And all economic polls I've seen are not rosy for the Unelected Fraud.

People in those states you mentioned need to snap out of their fatalistic stew and convince people if nothing else, it is worth voting against Smirk!