Will Dean's 5'7 height hurt him nationally?

[Proletariat]

I oftentimes read and hear about how the taller candidate wins the election. The voting public somehow is in awe of a taller leader (gag!). Does anyone think this would hurt Dean against the 5'10 Bush? I mean, it would be sickening to watch Bush get to act like he's some big shot when he goes over to shake Dean's hand at the debate--and act like he's all towering over him.

Thoughts?

[Jacobin]

1. Truman was short and Roosevelt was on wheels

I hope it doesn't hurt him. Gore is taller than Smirk (nevermind, Gore beat Smirk in the election)

[Proletariat]

3. Truman and Roosevelt were both before the TV era

[tsipple]

35. That's Worth Some Debate

The 1948 campaign had some political advertisements on television. That campaign, and several before, still had newsreels in the cinemas.

By the way, I looked up the height percentiles for adult white males in the United States. If you look at age 45, the median height is about 5 feet 9 and 1/2 inches. Dean is 5-8 or 5-9, depending on who you read. So he's one whopping inch shorter than the median. Which may be why his campaign has him photographed often standing and talking with groups of people, because he looks like America and doesn't tower over everyone. (Females and children are obviously shorter than adult males, on average.)

[Kahuna]

88. Truman and Roosevelt didn't run during the Television Age.

[DemPopulist]

95. Truman wasn't short

I read a book of Truman's writings that his daughter Margaret edited, I think, and there was a footnote about how her father was often referred to as "the little guy" but he was actually 5'10 or so. I think it was maybe because it fit his scrappy, underdog image to think of him as a little guy and there was probably some Republican derisiveness in that description as well. Of course, they blew whatever advantage they thought they might have had off that by nominating Thomas Dewey, who actually was a little guy.

FDR was almost never shown in his wheelchair during his lifetime.

[newsguyatl]

2. i like

how you folks keep making dean shorter and shorter and shorter :eyes:

is that your way of belittling him, literally?

dean is 5'9' (i know because i met him and we're the same exact height) and to answer your question, no it won't hurt him...

has his height hurt him on his way to surging past all the other candidates to become the frontrunner? what? what was that you say??... i thought so...

[mcd1982]

6. Dean's still...

not beaten any of them. So, your point of him surging past is sorta of invalid within the contexts of the premise "taller persons win elections". Dean hasn't won anything in respect to 2004.

How tall were his oppenents in Vermont?

I don't know if I will subscribe to this particular fact of history, I just hope the pattern of father/son presidents holds true...

Matthew

[newsguyatl]

11. ummm

"Dean's not beaten any of them. So, your point of him surging past is sorta of invalid within the contexts of the premise "taller persons win elections".

hey bright one, have you looked at the latest polls??


and THAT his surging success hasn't been effected by his height, it most certainly IS in context of him gaining national support...


bite me :eyes:

[mcd1982]

15. Oh gee...

"I oftentimes read and hear about how the taller candidate wins the election. The voting public somehow is in awe of a taller leader (gag!). Does anyone think this would hurt Dean against the 5'10 Bush???"

Here was the topic. Historically, the shorter candidate loses. Dean hasn't beaten any of the 8 candidates, nor have they beat him. The first contest is in Janurary.

And, of course I've looked at the polls, and polls change every day. We will see who the nominee is at the end. But, the point is we are talking about taller ppl. winning election, that is something Dean hasn't done in context of the 2004 race.

Bite me? That's really mature...

Matthew

[AWD]

16. Hostile much??

We're debating a possibility, or are we not allowed to do hypothetical situations without your permission????

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mcd1982]

19. I'm not sure...

if I was being called hostile or not, but if it was directed at me, I'm not the one saying "bite me".

And if it's my age being questioned, yes, I am 21. Can drink and vote.

All I was pointing out was the question was is Dean height a factor against beating Bush, nothing to do with Dean currently being at the top of the polls...

Matthew

[Proletariat]

7. Dean is 5'7 TOPS

He looked like mini-me next to Kerry. I saw a photo in a recent inssue of Time/Newsweek of him shaking Clinton's hand and he looked markedly shorter. I love Dean and hope he gets the nomination, but I'm just wondering if his lack of height will hurt him. Let's all be civil here.

[AWD]

8. Again, I say it...

...I am 5'11.5", and we are standing on level ground.

Quit lying about Dean.

[Proletariat]

You're 5'11 without shoes?

[AWD]

14. I am 5'11.5 inches tall...

...and we are standing on level ground.

This picture just proves you wrong, and you want to ask what SHOES we were wearing????

Give it up. You got busted.

Unless you're trying to suggest I was wering flats, and Dean was on 4.5 inch heels????

[AWD]

20. No answer, huh???

I thought you'd run away after being smacked to the ground.

[Proletariat]

24. huh? ok

I was trying to have a civil conversation here about height and electability and you've turned it into a 7th grade tit for tat dumbfest. I didn't think you deserved much of a response. If you truly are 5'11, then I guess Dean is about 5'9. To me he looked shorter.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Proletariat]

31. Well, no one knows his height for sure--so to say I lied is ridiculous

I'm judging with my eyes, until we see some official record of his height or Dean himself mention it, no one knows for sure. But if you want to throw insults around I can do that.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Proletariat]

36. It was opinion, not fact.

I didn't "lie" about anything. It is my opinion that he is 5'7.

[AWD]

38. It's OK

It takes a big man to admit he's wrong. Maybe someday you'll achieve that lofty goal.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AWD]

43. Ah...

Resorting to profanity and name-calling. The last act of a desperate argument.

Thanks. You've been alerted.

[Proletariat]

46. You called me a liar

Does that count as an insult?

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Proletariat]

54. I'm reporting you

I don't like your tone. You are calling me a liar. I would never vote for you either.

[AWD]

56. GASP!

Oh, no. I'm being reported because I proved you wrong??

Oh, how will I ever survive???

[Poiuyt]

79. SCANDAL

Are you saying that Dean wears lady's shoes?? Does he wear 4.5 inch stilletos like some stripper?? And what about his underwear??????

:)

[DeathvadeR]

10. lmao...Siq em

That was so in your face!!!!!! Sweeeeet

[newsguyatl]

12. and i stand

5'9' and am eye to eye with him -- and my pic with him proves it


awd -> glad you got your pic with him and thanks for posting! don't you love how these folks keep making him shorter and shorter... he's 5'7 now, have you heard?

[DemPopulist]

92. Kerry is 6'4

And Clinton is 6'2. Almost anyone would look like Mini-Me next to them, like Gore looked short next to Bradley and Bush looked short next to Gore.

[Cha]

64. Thanks for clearing that up newsguy! When I was reading this

I thought..hmm isn't Dean 5'8" the same as "Spiderman"? Now you're telling me Dean is 5'9" the same as my daughter whom I literally look up to!


To those who worry about Dean height I say get a grip and stop swimming at the shallow end of the pool! :-)
:kick:

[MODemocrat]

81. Way to go newsguy, Dean's ten times taller than Bush

So much is being made of Dean's "small" stature, and it gets pretty
sickening really. He has what it takes to be the front runner, so,
evidently, no one's that concerned that he's not 6 feet tall.

[DemPopulist]

96. This is fairly common unfortunately

I actually am short, so I've always been acutely (self-)conscious of how people perceive the...um...lesser among us. I've noticed that people are always questioning the publicly stated height of short celebrities, as in "There's no way Tom Cruise is 5'8! He's 5'2 TOPS!" whereas people never say "There's no way Arnold Schwarzenegger is 6'2! He's 6'0 TOPS!" The one thing I like about Dean is his scrappy little-guy persona (even though he's pretty close to average height).

[AWD]

4. 5-7???

For one, I doubt he's 5'7".

Second, no I don't see it as an issue.

When you take a look atthe picture below, note that I am 5'11.5", and we are standing on level ground. That doesn't look like 5'7" to me....

[wellstone_democrat]

22. you are tilted to the right in the pic

and Dean appears to be standing straight----my "guessimate" then would be that Dean is about 5'9", Look at your head. You are leaning toward him and still are a bit taller even then

BTW, Bush* was reported 5'10" until he was president* and then did you notice that often he is referred to as "around six feet tall" or "about six feet" I remember that I saw a thread on that long ago on DU and ever since have noticed it in swooning press stories. And, I have a picture of GWBush* with a good friend (don't ask...) from an early campaign appearance. Both are in street shoes and standing straight and tall. On his best day my friend is just barely under 5'10" (almost a 1/2 inch) and they are EXACTLY the same height. So...the joke is....Bush* isn't even quite 5'10" nevermind 6'0" unless, of course, they are using some lifts in his shoes these days---I don't put it past them

[AWD]

23. I've heard 5-10

...and if it's 5-9, I can dig that.

But when somebody says he's "5-7 TOPS", and I show a picture taken less than 24 hours ago, I expect an answer better than questioning my shoes.

But at least somebody addressed it. Thanks, wellstone!

[maggrwaggr]

37. I've met Bush. He ain't that tall

I'd guess 5'10" tops, in dress shoes.

[searchingforlight]

5. Well, he could start wearing cowboy boots like GW

I personally think a good set of what we use to call s--t kickers would work just fine and be much more appropriate!

[DeathvadeR]

9. Ya, Personally I only vote for the tallest guy........

They seem to be closer to god and all......

"Don't underestimate the stupidity of the Human race."

[phishhead]

13. Nice! LOL.

:D

[Northwind]

18. Amazing!

I have seen Dean go from 5'10" to 5'7" on this board in about one week!

When I got my handshake, he was looking me in the eye, and I am 5'11". But I have a huge melon (big brain, you know) so he might be an inch shorter than me.

[Rose Siding]

27. Looks tall enough here

8/11 Gov. Dean speaks to a crowd of 4000 at a rally in Philadelphia. - photo by Bob Hornsby
In the afternoon. In the middle of the week. Five months before the first primary.

[tsipple]

21. Probably Not

Three inches' difference in height is not a big deal on TV. Plus, doctors are supposed to be a little short. All that stunted growth from late nights studying. :-) At 5-7, Dean would be as tall as John Adams, John Quincy Adams, and William McKinley. (John Adams was a damn fine president. Very tough job being the second one, to prove that the new United States wasn't a fluke.) Three inches taller than James Madison. Carter was 5-9 1/2. Truman, 5-9. F.D.R. was 6-2 but rarely stood.

If height is a requirement for office, though, Dennis Kucinich and Carol Moseley-Braun are in deep trouble. So I don't put much stock in a candidate's height.

On edit: UPI says he is 5-8, and Burlington's newspaper says he is 5-9. Looks like Dean is about just about even with Truman and Carter. I haven't found 5-7 in print anywhere, and the photos would seem to suggest that's on the short side of his actual height. (Further research indicates that presidents, probably including George W. Bush, fib a little on their height. Bill Clinton is variously reported as 6-2 and 6-2 1/2. Something else for the GOP to investigate, I'm sure. :-)) And one more thing: Dean has a tall head (and forehead), which seems to work well on TV, for those people concerned about such things.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. No.

[farmbo]

26. You're right...he should have had common decency to be born taller.

:eyes:

[Proletariat]

29. Did you read my post?

Where did I bash Dean in it? I like Dean and his policies. I am wondering if his lack of height would hurt him in a national election. Why the meaness?

[AWD]

30. Because

Why the meaness?

That's the way people get treated when they intentionally lie about a Dem.

[Proletariat]

32. Intentionally lied?

nope.

[farmbo]

48. Sorry..no meanness intended. Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

But I'm 5'7", I've met him, and he's taller than that.

[Proletariat]

52. No problem

Some people around here are just rude.

[LizW]

33. My thought is

that if we choose our President based on height then we are truly a nation of dumb asses who get what we richly deserve.

Also, I have to point out that I've seen Dean numerous times on tv, both standing and sitting. I saw him on stage with all the other Democratic candidates. I saw him walking around in a crowd on stage after his announcement speech, surrounded by lots of men and women.

It never once occurred to me that he was short.

In fact, until I read it here I had the impression, based on demeanor and voice, that he was a tall man.

This is a non-issue.

[Clete]

40. Will Kerry's hair be a problem?

I don't think anyone is looking at the superficial stuff anymore. At least I hope not. Maybe it counts among the freepers, but they won't be voting for our candidates anyway.

[Proletariat]

41. Well, there's a big chunk in the middle who might care

That's why I brought it up. I wanted civil discussion about it, but I got a bunch of childish nonsense instead.

[Cha]

66. I've been reading this and haven't seen any "childish nonsense".

Just People pointing out some facts! :kick:

[Capn Sunshine]

42. Your numbers are off

I've been in the same room with both Dean and *. They are within 1/2 " of each other. Dean I was closer to; he didn't have a phalanx of guardians in between. We shook hands and looked eye to eye. I'm 5'10" and he was level with me.

* otoh looks smaller next to the large SS guys, and I would estimate him at 5'9 and wearing high heeled Texas boots.probably Victorias secret underwear and a garter belt too but I didn't ask.

[Bushknew]

44. IÕm so sick of this kind of superficial crap

Who cares if Dean is 5Õ7, or if Kucinich looks like a Hobbit, or that Gore is stiff.

I canÕt believe how much this kind of stuff actually weighs for most people.

I wouldnÕt vote for Clark just because he looks the part.

Americans have the mistaken feeling that the Republican party can protect
America more than the Democratic party can. Clark can take that away; however,
I still wouldnÕt vote for Clark unless I was convinced he was a liberal DEM.

In other words, pick the candidate on his substance not his appearance.

Anytime appearance is made an issue, we should refocus the conversation to the
Substance of what that person stands for.

[caledesi]

45. No. When Dean speaks he adds about 5" to his height!

He's such a powerful speaker that you don't even think of him being only 5'7"....hell, I didn't even KNOW he was on the short side until recently.

Dean is not "vertically challenged; he's space-efficient." LOL!

[mcd1982]

47. I noticed....

how short he was during the AFL-CIO debates. Kerry simply towered over everyone...

Matthew

[jburton]

49. Height won't hurt him

The Republican attack machine doesn't care if he's 5'7" or not.

They just want to know the measurements of his penis, to see if it is as much of a threat to the free world as Clinton's was.

[tsipple]

50. How Tall is Wesley Clark?

I can't find any printed source for that information. Since my entire primary vote depends on this crucial fact, I must know. :-)

[Proletariat]

51. I wondered this also

Clark is my fav candidate :)

[AWD]

55. You change fast, don't you???

I love Dean and hope he gets the nomination,

Clark is my fav candidate :)

So which is it?? You want Dean to get the nomination, even though Clark is your favorite, or do you usually want the ones you like the most to lose????

[Proletariat]

58. Clark hasn't actually declared yet

If he were to enter the race, he would be #1 with me. I would support Dean full well if he got the nomination. I like him over the others at this point. Please, sir, quit personally attacking me.

[AWD]

63. Gee...

..then why would you say Clark is my fav candidate if he's not a candidate yet??

[Proletariat]

65. Why are you parsing everything I say?

Clark is my favorite "potential" candidate. There, make you feel better?

[Classical_Liberal]

57. Gore was 6'3

So I guess that rule doesn't always pan out.

[Proletariat]

60. I heard 6'1

and he and Bush were too similar in height to really make much of a difference. With Dean, his lack of stature will be noticeable.

[tsipple]

67. Gore-Bush Height Difference Twice Dean-Bush

Dean and Bush are probably 1.5 inches apart. Gore towered over Bush in comparison. Dean's head looks taller than Bush's.(*)

(*) Note: This stuff is absolutely absurd, but since I wasn't the one who brought it up, I'll indulge for one silly thread's worth.

[Cha]

69. Only to the shallow ones! It sure doesn't matter to the many

People across the Country who support him for President!:kick:

[maxanne]

59. next to Kerry

everyone looks short. He's about 6'4" - not counting the hair. He towers over me, and I'm 6'. I've met them both. Dean is truly about 5'9". He has a great handshake, and genuinely likes women. ;-)

[tsipple]

68. I Like Women Too, Maxanne...

...And I'm a little taller than Dean. I probably have bigger feet, too. Would you give me a call? Perhaps we can have coffee together. :-)

[maxanne]

76. you betcha

tsipple!! I think we may be geographically challenged when it comes to a casual cup of joe, though. ;-)

[tsipple]

77. I Own an Airplane, Maxanne...

...and I know how to use it. :-) :-)

[maxanne]

78. lol tsipple

If you decide you need to have coffee with a redheaded NH amazon, you let me know!!

:hi:

[kentuck]

61. Not unless they sit him in a high chair as they did on MTP...

And there was a camera shot where his feet did not reach the floor... Those types of visuals are not good.

[Proletariat]

62. Are you serious? lol

:):):):)

[clar]

70. The reason everybody

jumped on you was because it was apparent in your initial post that you were launching a snarky, not very well done stealth attack on Dean. Antipathy towards him dripped from your post. If you're really supportive of him, might i suggest that you have some seriously conflicted feelings that need to be addressed. If, as seems more likely, you just don't like him, why not be straight forward about it?

[Proletariat]

72. I sincerely think/thought that he was 5'7

Apparently he's in the 5'8-5'9 range. I didn't know this would be such a flame-bait topic. The question still remains though, will Dean's 5'9 height adversly affect his campaign against the platform booted Bush? :)

[Cha]

74. NO!

[Cha]

71. Yeah! I knew that would tickle you!

[Cha]

73. It's nothing less than I would expect from from the ge timmy-

thewhore-russert show!

And it doesn't fucking bother me a bit!

[tsipple]

75. Kerry's Height a Security Risk

John Kerry has to shop at "big and tall" stores, and that's a problem, because there are fewer clothing stores in Washington, D.C., that stock his sizes. Consequently he'll have fewer random stores to choose from during his presidency, and that's something we Americans can't endorse in our commander-in-chief.

Note: tsipple is continuing this discussion onward toward its logical absurdity. Feel free to pile on.

On edit: I'd like to add that Dennis Kucinich is not similarly disqualified, because there are many clothing stores that carry teen sizes. In fact, he may have an advantage when it comes to clothing shopping, because he can wear all the latest fashions as might be seen on American Idol, which will help boost turnout among young Americans, particularly those who live near Fox affiliates. Dennis will also be able to personally enhance U.S. relations with many countries, including height-challenged Japan and China.

Additional Note: Anybody figure out this thread is totally silly yet? Just checking...

[Tennessee Gal]

80. Pretty shallow to vote based on a candidate's height!

I don't care about height.

[CMT]

82. No

Ford was much taller than Carter and Carter won that election. I also believe that Dean is a bit taller than 5'7--I don't think this will be an issue.

[IndianaGreen]

83. It didn't bother President Truman

Look at all the crappy Presidents we had that were tall. Obviously the taller they are the more likely they are to fall short of expectations. It is time to choose people based on what they can do, not on what they look like.

Dan Quayle was tall and photogenic, but it was a total boob!

[realFedUp]

84. This is one of the silliest threads with so many replies

I've seen since the wagga-wagga ones in the Lounge.

[AlinPA]

No it won't hurt; it will help him.

He will be seen as fiesty and tough.

[AlinPA]

85. No it won't hurt; it will help him.

He will be seen as fiesty and tough.

[Lady President]

86. It could be a bit of a problem

I actually don't think it will be a huge problem if Dean gets the nomination because his height is quite close to Bush's*, but if Kucinich gets the nod, there might be trouble. Obviously, someone can be a good leader even if they are short, but there will be a replay of the Dukakis-Bush debates. Maybe someone who could vote then would remember better, but I recall Bush I insisting that the podium had to be a certain height for him to give a speech. The height he chose would have been far too high for Dukakis. After much compromising the debate took place, but the podium still dwarfed Dukakis. Granted Dukakis had bigger problems with his campaign, but this didn't help him look like a strong and powerful candidate. I could definitely see Bush* pulling a similar stunt with Kucinich.

On a side note I always assume that men exaggerate their height some, so it doesn't surprise or bother me at all if Bush* and the Dem. candidates give themselves an extra inch. I'm a 5'10" woman and I'm consistently taller than men who claim to be 5'10" or 5'11". It makes me laugh a little, but it's just one of those things...

[babzilla]

87. thoughts....

oh my god, you are so right, it would be like totally gag-me-with-a-spoon! if Bush acted like he's all towering over Dean.

I hate it when Bush totally acts like he's some big shot. Bush is so totally 5'10 and it is so totally awe-inspiring that he is a total taller leader. Everyone shorter should totally curl up and die, totally.

If Bush totally acts like he is towering all over Dean I will simply blow chunks and die. Oh muh god. I hope he totally doesn't tower over him like he's some big shot. I mean I hate it when big shots are all tall and stuff.

When Dean debates Bush I won't even watch because I know in my heart that Carville was right: its the height, stupid.

[DemLikr]

89. Everyone admires a small, scrappy guy who overcomes his size

and does great things.

Dean's height could very well be an advantage.

[Orangepeel]

90. Right. Didn't anyone else see "Seabiscuit"?

:-)

[DemLikr]

97. Precisely! Howard "Seabiscuit" Dean: Hung like a horse!

There's our new campaign slogan.

Not that I've decided who to support yet, of course...

[SharonAnn]

91. Why would it? He's a big, big man! eom

eom

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

93. If he can't dunk it

I just can't vote for him.

I know for sure that Kerry can slam it. Reverse twist.

[Proletariat]

94. Kerry could do a 360