Why are Marines not called "Soldiers"?

[bluestateguy]

This has always baffled me. Can someone enlighten this civilian?

[qazplm]

1. because the Army

is the service that has soldiers...

Air Force is airmen...

Navy is sailors

and the Marines are, well, the marines...lol


Not really sure what the Coast Guard calls themselves.

[DarkPhenyx]

3. smarter than the average serviceman I think.

maybe someone here knows better.

[imax2268]

4. puddle jumpers...!

just kidding...no disrespect for anyone who was in the Coast Guard...

I was in the Navy...and we always called Marines "Marines"...

[annarbor]

7. Or....

The Airmen were called,"Flyboys"
The Sailors were called, "Squids"
The Soldiers were called, "Army Dogs"
and we Marines were called, "Jarheads" or "Leathernecks" (even the women..."BAMS" too:)

We simply called the Coast Guard, "The Department of Transportation"

Ann Arbor,
USMC
83-86

[kiahzero]

38. Air Force are Zoomies! (n/t)

[jmowreader]

44. You know why?

Answer to be posted later this evening.

[Redhead488]

49. Technically, only USAFA cadets and Grads

are properly called Zoomies.

[Frodo]

54. "called zoomies" by the other service academies

And properly so.

Who knows what they call themselves.

I know they call West Point caydets "whoops"

They call Annapolis Mids "sir" ;-)

[Redhead488]

57. Actually, they call

Mids Squids, Fish, or Chicks.

[Frodo]

58. I don't think I ever heard that....

And we had a zoomie in our company.

Couldn't march worth beans...

[Redhead488]

59. You never heard that?

We made buttons during football season saying Sink the Squids, Squish the Fish, etc. Marching is real relavant to military life these days...one does it so often on board an airlplane or ship.

[Frodo]

60. Really?

And how often does one play football? THAT is relevant? Besides... poor marching skills shows a lack of basic motor controls. Something WE looked for in pilots. But as a disclaimer... we also had a West Point 2nd classman in the company at one point.... THEY know how to march. Walked circles around us - I think it's all they know how to do.


It was a JOKE! :-)

"What do mids call AF cadets? 'Zoomies'. What do AF cadets call mids? 'Sir'. "

What class? '91 here.

[Redhead488]

61. Poor marching skills

show poor marching skills, nothing else.

I know some great sticks who could not march worth a damn...they just didn't care.

And we called Mids squids mostly, followed by "the fish."

Class of '82

[patriotvoice]

35. "Coastie"

Navy ("Non Sibi Sed Patriae")
sea man -- From obsolete Old English word pronounced "see-man," meaning a person whose occupation is on the sea.

sailor -- From Old English saylor meaning a person professionally involved with navigation.

aka: Squid

Marines ("Semper Fidelis")
marine - From the Latin marinus meaning pertaining to or of the sea.

aka: Jarhead, Leatherneck, Grunt, Gyrene (obscure)


Army ("This We'll Defend")
soldier - From Latin soldus, slang for solidus, referring to a Roman coin used to pay military men.

aka: Grunt, GI, Dogface (obs.), Gun bunny (obs.), Doughboy (obs.)


Air Force ("Uno Ab Alto")
air man - Modern usage, meaning a person whose occupation is in the air.

aka: Flyboy, Zoomie (obs.)


Coast Guard ("Semper Paratus")
coastie - Modern usage, from branch name.

cutter - From the ships upon which they sail, itself derived from "Revenue Cutter Service," one of the two parts from which Congress formed the Coast Guard. The other was the "US Life Saving Service."

aka: Shallow Water Sailor, Mud Duck (obscure)



Corrections and updates welcome.

[Blue Wally]

45. Gun Bunny

This term is not obsolete, but refers to artillerymen in general and specifically to the cannoneers that do the grunt work ofmving the cannon and ammunition in an artillery unit as opposed to the signalers, plotters, observers, and other "technicians".

[jmowreader]

47. "Grunt" is slang for infantryman

This because they're supposedly so stupid they don't know how to speak, only grunt.

A gun bunny is an artilleryman, because they "jump," or move, with the gun after firing it since counterbattery fire will come at the completion of any fire mission.

The "dog face soldier" comes from the 3rd Infantry Division's theme song:

I Wouldn't Give A Bean
To Be A Fancy Pants Marine
I'd Rather Be A
Dog Face Soldier Like I Am

I Wouldn't Trade My Old OD's
For All The Navy's Dungarees
For I'm The Walking Pride
Of Uncle Sam

On Army Posters That I Read
It Says "Be All That You Can"
So They're Tearing Me Down
To Build Me Over Again

I'm Just A Dog Face Soldier
With A Rifle On My Shoulder
And I Eat Raw Meat
For Breakfast E'V'RY Day

So Feed Me Ammunition
Keep Me In Third Division
Your Dog Face Soldier's A-Okay

(Which beats the shit out of the 82nd Airborne Division's official theme song...

Put on your boots, boots, boots
And parachutes- chutes- chutes
We're going up, up, up
And coming down, down, down
We're All American and proud to be
For we're the soldiers of liberty.

The 82nd Airborne soldier is no fool; he knows this song sucks worse than any other in the Army. (III Corps has the best one.) So the 82nd soldier sings this to the tune of the Battle Hymn of the Republic:

He was just a rookie trooper and he surely shook with fright
As they checked all his equipment and made sure his pack was tight
He had to sit and listen to those awful engines roar;
"You ain't gonna jump no more!"

Chorus:
Gory gory, what a helluva way to die
Gory gory, what a helluva way to die
Gory gory, what a helluva way to die
He ain't gonna jump no more.

Is everybody ready cried the sergeant looking up
Our hero feebly answered "Yes" and then they stood him up,
He leaped right out into the blast, his static line unhooked
He ain't gonna jump no more!

Chorus

He counted loud, he counted long he waited for the shock
He felt the wind, he felt the clouds, He felt the awful drop,
He pulled his cord, the silk spilled out, and wrapped around his legs
He ain't gonna jump no more!

Chorus

The days he lived and loved and laughed kept running through his mind
He thought about his girl back home, the one he'd left behind.
He thought about the medics and he wondered what they'd find.
He ain't gonna jump no more!

Chorus

The risers wrapped around his neck, connecters cracked his dome.
The lines were snarled and tied in knots around his skinny bones.
The canopy became his shroud, he hurled to the ground.
He ain't gonna jump no more!

Chorus

The ambulance was on the spot, The jeeps were running wild,
The medics jumped and screamed with glee; they rolled their sleeves and smiled
For it had been a week or more since last a chute had failed
He ain't gonna jump no more!

(Quick note: in the division area on Bragg, there is a huge sign "days since last fatality." Sometimes it gets all the way to 20 in peacetime. Right now it's got a tarp over it.)

Chorus

He hit the ground, the sound was "splat", the blood went spurting high,
His comrades than were heard to say "A HELLUVA WAY TO DIE!!!"
He lay there, rolling 'round in the welter of his gore.
He ain't gonna jump no more!

Chorus

There was Blood Upon the Risers, there were brains upon his 'chute.
Intestines were a danglin' from his paratrooper boots.
The medics gathered up the shroud and poured him from his boots.
He ain't gonna jump no more!

[DarkPhenyx]

2. Becasue they are Marines.

and they hate being called "Navy doormen".

[TahitiNut]

37. Seagoing bellhops?

:evilgrin:

[DarkPhenyx]

43. The only fustrated people...

...on a boat full of men?

[lpbk2713]

5. Soldiers don't go to sea

Except for transportation. "Marine" is a derivitive of Latin "mare" for sea. Marines are often stationed aboard ships.

[kixot]

6. To distance themselves from the army.

Silly, really. They feel they go through much more rigorous training than the army so they feel they deserve a seperate title. They just prefer to be called Marines, it's a pride thing.

[Forkboy]

8. Ego

[JohnLocke]

19. Typical response.

[Forkboy]

21. Yes,yours was typical

nice edit btw.

[JohnLocke]

29. Whatever you say, Forkboy.

:eyes:

[Forkboy]

31. Typical response

[JohnLocke]

33. LOL.

Funny.

[gumby]

9. Why are soldiers called "troops"?

"Troops" sounds like some kind of official "group," like a "battalion" or some other such military designation.

Troop=soldier=person. Yes?

edit: the term "troop" seems to undermine the fact that a "troop" is a person.

[Redleg]

11. Troop is used for individual and groups of soldiers.

In the cavalry, troop is the equivalent of a company.

[osaMABUSh]

10. Marines are part of the Navy then why are they in the desert?

The word Marine I guess means water or something to do with water so why are the Marines in every terrain including the desert?

Obviously I know next to nothing about the military. Can someone explain why the Marines are so special? And I hate to say this but they seem to get better press if they die in combat over an Army guy.

[carpetbagger]

24. Several reasons.

First, we're running low on Army divisions.
Second, the Marines were part of the Basra and coastal campaign.
Third, the Marines deploy in smaller, more self-contained units called Expeditionary Units, which are about (and this is a very rough estimate) the size of a brigade. This force composition and size is actually where the Army is probably headed in the next 20 years, and is superior for the types of box/grid warfare we're involved in (which is to say that we fight in the entire field of the theater, more like a baseball team than like a football team's offensive line a.k.a. 1914 Europe.

Last, and probably most important, the Marines specialize in urban environments, guerrilla combat, and the like. They are the ones who get sent into coastal cities most often, guard embassies, and they have a set of skills quite appropriate for Iraq, especially when our forces are so spread out that we haven't provided them with adequate training in the immediate pre-deployment timeframe.

[Crachet2004]

12. Because they are Marines.

By definition, they are shipborne shock troops: Marines. They have no business being used as 'policemen' or 'occupiers', as has been done to them in Iraq.

They take the beachhead, no matter how many die doing so, and the army follows. In return, this nation owes the Marines better duty than what they are being accorded in Iraq today, when their assault capability is not needed.

Someday, we will have a force in space...and the infantry element will also be 'Marines'. Like it or not, that's the way it's gonna be.

[HawkerHurricane]

15. The State Department's Own.

In the early years of the United States, there was no 'standing army'; ie the army consisted entirely of part time militia. When soldiers were needed 'right now', the Marines were the ones who were ready. The habit of posting Marines as Embassy Guards comes from this period also (early 1800's)... so when congress set rules about when the military could be used, the Marines were not mentioned... which gave the President a loophole; if needed he could 'Send the Marines' without approval of congress...

Marines 'Beach Assault' capability came about in the 1920's, when the U.S. Navy planned for war against Japan... the Marines figured out that the Navy would need bases, and that the Marines would be the ones to 'acquire' them. (Original Navy war plan called for the fleet to cross the Pacific without any support structure... this is called 'planning by wishful thinking'.)

So, from about 1800 to 1941, the Marines were the ones 'on the scene' when things went wrong... and because of the loophole, did most of the small scale fighting, including anti-Guerrilla warfare, while the army waited for 'the big one'. Not until WW2 were the Marines a multi Divisional force, capable of fighting truely large scale battles.

[Redleg]

17. Actually, there was a standing army, albeit quite small.

The oldest, continuous service ground unit is an Army field artillery battery. Granted it could't be used for offensive operations of the sort you discussed.

[HawkerHurricane]

18. Leave it to a RedLeg

To know that.

Off of the California coast is San Clemete Island... used by the United States Navy as a gunnery range for many many years. Since the Navy uses it, the Marines get to use it also... shipping thier arty batteries to the island to blow the scrub into ever smaller chunks.

One night while on watch, the Marines began to bombard... you could see the flashes from the guns, but we were far enough away so we couldn't hear them.

The Officer of the Deck called me up, and asked "Sigs, who are they signaling and what are they saying?"

And I told them "They're signaling the east end of the island. They're saying 'Boom!'.

[Redleg]

52. LOL. You should send that in to Reader's Digest.

Funny stuff.

[Redleg]

63. Here is a link to some info...

1st Battalion, 5th Field Artillery (Regular Army)

The 1st Battalion, 5th Field Artillery, traces its roots back to the New York Provincial Company of Artillery, organized in 1776 by Alexander Hamilton. It served in the Revolution as Capt. John Doughty's Company, Lamb's Continental Artillery Regiment and earned credit for the Long Island, Trenton, Princeton, Brandywine, Germantown, Monmouth, Yorktown, New York, and New Jersey campaigns. The 1st Battalion, 5th Field Artillery is the oldest unit in the Regular Army and the only one to have Revolutionary War credit. Not only is the 1st Battalion, 5th Field Artillery the oldest regiment in the Regular Army, but there was a time in 1783 when its predecessor, Capt. John Doughty's Company, was the only regiment in the Regular Army. With the end of the Revolutionary War, a long debate over the desirability and legality of a permanent peacetime army forced Washington to reduce the size of the Continental Army to fewer than 100 soldiers, all of whom were members of Capt. John Doughty's Company.

(This was snipped from the following source:
http://www.mmmsmilitaryhistory.net/h31774-1783.htm)

[Crachet2004]

26. Good post HH, thanks for the bio...part of it I knew, part of it I did'nt.

But I know this, no matter what the future holds, we will always need the Marines. Two of them are good friends of mine, and they are NOT voting for Bush.

One of the biggest things that infuriates me about Bush, is the way our military is being used by him.

And there will be the inevitable aspersions cast upon the military itself...thanks to Bush.

We need to get him gone.

[Don_G]

27. Wasn't It Earlier Than That And For Different Reasons?

It seems to me that the fighting contingent of a "sea-faring" nation like the US in the 1790's were the trained Marines on board a warship visiting hostile ports at the birth of our nation.

The "swabbies" weren't trained to fight, but their Marine brethren were and detailed to help out in small-scale situations like the Barbary Coast and Tripoli without Congressional approval until WW II.

I could be wrong.

[HawkerHurricane]

34. Since there was no US Navy until 1794...

And only had 6 Frigates until 1812, there weren't many Marines OR Swabs...

Boarding Actions were almost always done by Sailors; Marines were used as snipers. Tripoli and the Barbary Pirates were fought by both Marines and Sailors... Marines armed with muskets, sailors with cutlass and pikes...

Weren't trained to fight? All the way into WW2, Sailors were trained in amphibious assaults... including rifles, grenades, crawling under barbed wire, charging up the beach, etc... all the things that the Marines were actually doing. A good portion of "Navy Recruit Training Command San Diego" was a obstacle course...

[Blue Wally]

48. Not so

The navy was built up into a rather large force by Pres Adams during the Quasi-War with France. After Jefferson came into office, it was reduced to thirteen frigates (Constitution, United States, President, Constellation, Congress, Chesapeake, Philadelphia, New York, Essex, Boston, Adams, General Greene, and John Adams) plus the schooner Enterprize. Jefferson neglected the navy and some of these fine ships were allowed to rot. In 1812, the Navy had seven frigates, one corvette (cut down from a frigate), two ship sloops, two brig-sloops, and four gun brigs in commission.

[TacticalPeek]

39. this is called 'planning by wishful thinking'

AKA - "Hope is not a plan."

See Iraq.


The Marines win battles. The Army wins wars.

And the whole line is: "Sailors, Soldiers, Airmen and Airwomen, Marines, Coast Guardsmen and Coast Guardswomen". (Heard Wesley Clark run it once at a campaign event; seldom fully given, because it is such a mouthful.)

[Blue Wally]

46. In fairness

From 1800 to 1900, the small active forces of the US Army were pretty much tied up in garrisoning the western frontier and participating tin the periodic Indian Wars.

The marines were rarely used in large numbers before WWI. There were marine detachments on all large ships which would form landing parties to do the expeditionary work. Read "Gold Braid andForeign Relations" about the US gunboat diplomacy of the 19th century.

[Spinzonner]

16. Dubya doesnt care

they're all cannon fodder to him

[delete_bush]

22. I want the forces in space to be called....

Space Cadets!

[CO Liberal]

13. I Knew One Marine I Used to Call "Dad"

My father served with the Marines as a photographer/tail gunner stationed at Kwajalein Atoll during WWII. He passed on in 1991, and I still miss him.

Semper fi, Dad. I love you.

Wayne
(CO Liberal)

[RDANGELO]

14. Upon their conception

,during the revolutionary period, they envisioned mostly as boarding parties for ships. They got the idea from the British Royal Marines.

[Cleita]

20. Marines were once the infantry of the Navy.

I'm not an expert on this but it's my understanding that the Marine Corp is a subsidiary of the Navy who do the ground fighting after an amphibious landing. I think it goes back to the English Navy, Captain Horatio Hornblower type stuff.

[annarbor]

23. Marines are the ground forces of the Navy...

Marines are members of the Department of the Navy thus the Marine Corp seal, "Eagle, Globe and Anchor".

[Berserker]

25. I was in the Navy

And of course we gave each other (Marines) alot of shit but we respected each other. But if you really want to get to a Marine ask him what it says on his check? US NAVY
All armed forces have their little digs toward each other but when it all boils down we have the best fighting men in the world. By the way is it true that all Air force men are gay? :evilgrin:

[Baclava]

28. I used to have this on my office door...and I'm retired AF

[Berserker]

30. Good Humor Baclava

Where's the Navy?

[Johnyawl]

36. I had a boss once who was ex-AF...

...he said it was the best service to be an enlisted man, 'cause the enlisted ranks stayed in the rear, and let the officers do all the fighting.

Sounded good to me.

John
USMC 1968-71

[Zech Marquis]

51. yep!

Bingo! You hit the nail on the head :evilgrin:

[gumby]

32. Thanks to Redleg and Everyone

for this information. Learning......

[Dunedain]

40. Because

On November the 10th 1775, the Continental Congress passed a resolution establishing the Continental Marines.

[Taverner]

41. BECASUE THE MARINES IS NOT THE ARMY...

THE MARINES IS NOT THE NAVY...
THE MARINES IS NOT THE AIR FORCE...

Sorry...got kind of carried away with my F Lee Ermey moment there...

[TacticalPeek]

42. MAGGOT! IS THAT THE BIGGEST CAPITAL LETTERS YA GOT!!!

I CAN'T HEAR YOU, MAGGOT!

[stavka]

50. ...in addition

Paratroops and Cavalry/Scouts would prefer "Troopers" rather than "Soldiers"

[libertad]

53. The Marines ARE in the Navy.

[Redhead488]

55. NO they are not

They are part of the Department of the Navy, but are a separate service of the military than the Navy. The DoN is the only Department with two separate services in it.

[Az]

62. Actually they are the opposition to the navy

That is they were originally on board the ships to keep the navy in line. They were kept seperate from the sailors. Their rivalry was encouraged as they were better fed, better equipped, and had to do far less labor on board than the navy. Their job was to put down any mutanies and lead assaults during combat.

[Az]

56. The history of the Marines

The marines were not primarily a soldier in their original roll. Marines were associated with the navy but for a very specific reason were seperate from the navy. Due to the constant threat of mutany on the high seas the navy kept the marines on board their vessels to put down any mutanous actions. To this end the marines were kept armed, got the best food, and a rivalry was fostered between them and the sailors(which still exists to this day). They were also primary combatants during raids and conflict on the sea.

Over time as our military became modernised the marines history of being well armed and versatility made them a prime choice for multienvironment combat rolls. Used to transitioning between sea and land they quickly took to the roll of initial assault. Striking from the sea to land they were able to establish the beachfront from which waves of army soldiers could then begin their full assault.