Refute the F9/11 Reich-Wing Talking Points

[Kathy in Cambridge]

I don't listen to RW radio or watch RW TV so I don't even know what they are saying. One of my work colleagues says that Moore lied about the Saudi airlift on September 13th, and that this was refuted by Richard Clarke. Mind you, this is the same coworker who calls Michael Moore a communist. :eyes:

What other BS have you heard the RW throw with regard to this movie? I am having a fun time refuting their talking points.

[genius]

1. Richard Clark never said he lied. He just didn't like the way it was

presented and the impression it left. Facts are facts and Moore's facts cannot be denied.

[papau]

2. Moore said "white House" and Clark IS "white-house" so what is the

problem.

Does anyone think that Clarke opened US Airspace for the Saudis without permission?

The 9/13 collection were not allowed for anyone else - just the Saudis. Late 9/13 the airspace was opened up to private aircraft (before that point only commercial air being repositioned was allowed).

[aden_nak]

3. Words and implications.

Moore was clever in F9/11 to never say "Bush did so-and-so" if there was not hard proof to back it up. For example, he never directly accuses Bush of personally arranging their transportation. He points out the airlifts, asks why they were not all thoroughly questioned, and points out the extremely close ties between the Bushes and the bin Ladens. Many people immediately say to themselves, "Wait, there must be SOMETHING fishy going on there!" and they're probably right. But nothing Moore ever says is a lie. Usually, people who attack F9/11 are attacking the implications of the movie.

[papau]

4. I agree - White House permitted implies Bush - but does not say Bush

:-)

[aden_nak]

6. Exactly.

Technically, hell, I permitted it because I didn't do anything to stop it. :P Although the WH has a whole lot more authority in that department than I do. And if the WH didn't permit it, and it took place, why was no one held accountable? More than anything else, he asks, "WHY DOES NO ONE KNOW ABOUT THIS?"

[M0rpheus]

5. They have plenty of them...

I think this link covers most, if not all I've heard.

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

Saudi Departures from United States

Deceits 13-16

Moore is guilty of a classic game of saying one thing and implying another when he describes how members of the Saudi elite were flown out of the United States shortly after 9/11.

If you listen only to what Moore says during this segment of the movie—and take careful notes in the dark—you’ll find he’s got his facts right. He and others in the film state that 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country after Sept. 13.

The date—Sept. 13—is crucial because that is when a national ban on air traffic, for security purposes, was eased

But nonetheless, many viewers will leave the movie theater with the impression that the Saudis, thanks to special treatment from the White House, were permitted to fly away when all other planes were still grounded. This false impression is created by Moore’s failure, when mentioning Sept. 13, to emphasize that the ban on flights had been eased by then. The false impression is further pushed when Moore shows the singer Ricky Martin walking around an airport and says, “Not even Ricky Martin would fly. But really, who wanted to fly? No one. Except the bin Ladens.”

But the movie fails to mention that the FBI interviewed about 30 of the Saudis before they left. And the independent 9/11 commission has reported that “each of the flights we have studied was investigated by the FBI and dealt with in a professional manner prior to its departure.”


<snip>

[Kathy in Cambridge]

8. I wish someone would refute the BS point by point in a blog

my RW coworker has this piece of shit hanging outside his cube :eyes: a clear violation of workplace policies.

I am going to decorate my cube likewise...

[Hoping4Change]

11. Only 30 of 140 Saudis were interviewed by the FBI, interviews

that were superfical and basically farcial. For instance phone logs were never demanded which would be standard in a murder investigation of this magnitude but other profound lapses in the interviews were idenfified by the FBI agent in F911.

Clarke states that he based his decision on a nod from the FBI who said they compared the names to names on the Terror Watch Lists and there were no matches. That is exactly what Clarke bases his decision on. However we all know how botched those Watch Lists were. We all know what a pathtetic job the FBI did prior to 911.

Moore was interviewed last night by Charlie Rose and he went through all this and he also pointed out that the 911 Commission is re-opening its investigation into the flight of the Saudis becasue the Tampa airport has confirmed that a Private jet took off Sept 13th from Tampa with Saudis to Lexington to pick more Saudis and than flew away.

Some Commerical jets on Sept 13th had permission to fly. On Sept 13th all PRIVATE JETS were still grounded. The Saudis were on a Private JET!!!!!

[eridani]

12. At least one of them had foreknowledge of 9-11

Prince Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul Aziz, owner of War Emblem (who won the first two of three Triple Crown races in 2002) was at the top of the list of a group of well-connected Saudis who left the country from Lexington, KY in a luxurious customized 727 shortly after 9-11. According to one of bin Laden’s top operatives, Aziz knew well beforehand that a major attack was to take place in the US on 9-11. And the Bush administration let the bastard fly the coop. The very fact that a couple of hundred Saudis were flying around within the US to central pickup points like Lexington, while US citizens were prohibited from flying from Minneapolis to Chicago is totally outrageous.

On March 30, 2002, Al Qaeda operative Abu Zubaydah was captured in Pakistan and questioned by two teams of intelligence agents. One of the teams consisted of Arab Americans posing as Saudi agents, who hoped to scare Zubaydah into thinking he would be turned over to the Saudis for the usual torture and beheading. Far from being intimidated, Zubaydah was relieved, and told them that a call to Prince Ahmed would explain all—and he knew all the phone numbers from memory. He also told them to call Prince Sultan bin Faisal bin Turki al-Saud and Prince Fahd bin Turki bin Saud al-Kabir, members of the House of Saud related to King Fahd.

He said that several years earlier the royal family had made a deal with Al Qaeda in which the House of Saud would aid them as long as they kept terrorism out of Saudi Arabia. The interrogators insisted that 9-11 changed everything—the House of Saud would not stand behind them after that.

Zubaydah said that 9-11 changed nothing, because Ahmed and the others knew beforehand that an attack was scheduled for America that day. They didn’t know exactly what it would be, and they didn’t want to know. Bin Laden knew the Saudis couldn’t stop it without the specifics, and also that they couldn’t turn on him without disclosing their foreknowledge.

Bush helped Ahmed leave the country right after 9-11, unmolested until June 22, 2002, when he supposedly died of a heart attack in his sleep. On June 23, Prince Sultan died in a car wreck. On July 30, Prince Fahd died in the desert of thirst. None was older than 43, and all are beyond questioning now. That these three were named by Zubaydah and then died young a couple of months later is extremely suspicious.

DELIBERATELY FACILITATING THE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE WHO KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT 9-11 OUT OF THE COUNTRY BEFORE THEY COULD BE QUESTIONED MAKES THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION ACCESSORIES AFTER THE FACT. REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER!

Sources: Craig Unger, House of Bush, House of Saud, Scribner, 2004
Gerald Posner, Why America Slept: The Failure to Prevent 9/11, Random House, 2003

[Hoping4Change]

13. I haven't read read either of those books yet. Thanx for this info.

[Elbowroom]

7. think about it

Did Prince Bandar call Richard Clarke to ask for these flights? No. He would have called another certain person in the admin.

Did Richard Clarke call the prince to ask him if this was something he would have liked to have done? No way.

Clarke got word from somebody else that this was something that somebody wanted to happen. He got it approved by the FBI and then gave the green light. He didn't just think of this situation all by himself.

[Luminous Animal]

9. Go to the source

Craig Unger does a great job of refuting this here on his web site.

http://houseofbush.com/index.php

Michael Moore has it posted on his site, as well.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/statements/index.php?id=69

[Qutzupalotl]

10. Here's one lie.

The book Bush was listening to children read for far too long after he knew both towers were hit and the country was under attack was called "THE Pet Goat", not "MY Pet Goat."

If he can't even get that right, how can we trust him?

/sarcasm