Thanks to the Mods For Locking the Outrageous Thread on Iraq and Jews

[David Zephyr]

I was uploading a response to thread when I discovered that the thread had been locked...and appropriately so.

Still, this twisted thinking raises its head here from time to time and I'd just like to get this off my chest here once and for all.

I'm sorry if this doesn't fit the convenient "blame the Jews" mindtrap, but just in case anyone forgot:

It was a Christian President, George W. Bush, that "led the U.S. Into Iraq". Yes, our Christian President and Commander in Chief along with his Christian Vice-President led the United States into War.

Our nearly all-Christian Congress voted overwhelmingly to give him the authority to do so.

The U.S. Corporate News Media cheer leaded for the War in Iraq.

And, let's really be frank here: The American people rallied to Bush in support of his illegal and immoral war.

The Jewish community in the U.S. makes up a mere 3% of the overall population.

Most all of my many Jewish friends around the country opposed Bush's War in Iraq.

Blaming the Jews for the War in Iraq...rather than the Idiot in the White House is not just silly, it's insane.

The War in Iraq and the Disastrous Aftermath should be blamed squarely on George W. Bush.

It is George Bush's War.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Amen, brother!

To blame Iraq on anything other than political idiots is clouding the issue. Jews, Christians, and Muslims and those of other religions must all guard against those who would trash their faiths.

[Trajan]

2. I trash all faiths equally ....

If you dont mind ....

[ablbodyed]

6. Thanks>>>>

organized religion is the source of 90% of the misery in the world.

[physioex]

17. Maybe...

But maybe the powerful and wealthy are using orgnaized religion to make money. Read Leo Strauss the mentor of Wolfie...

[David Zephyr]

3. Thanks!

:thumbsup:

[leesa]

4. It is not Iraq and the JEWS. Stop playing this BS game

It is Iraq and Israel and they are up to their eyeballs in most evrything that occurs in Israel with LOT'S of evidence to back it up. Stop playing this bigoted game of pretending that everyone pointing out Israel's outrageous behavior in anti-Jew.

[David Zephyr]

7. The Locked Article Clearly Referenced American Jews, Not Israelis

The bigotry is in writing about American Jews as if they are Israeli citizens and crudely attempting to blur the distinction.

Here's the article, read it for yourself:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1943352

[Djinn]

8. Thanks leesa

Israel does not equal Jewish.

And the article in question was written by Ari Shavit and published in Haaretz - well known for their anti-semitic views :eyes: (sarcasm off)

[geek tragedy]

14. The website quoting it

heavily emphasized that it was Das Juden who led the US into war with Iraq.

But, are American Jews and Israel the same thing to you? Curious mistake to make.

The only ones mixing Jews and Israel up are you and your fellow travelers in this thread.

[Djinn]

21. Excuse me?

I never mix Jews with Israel - what with being an advocate for 1 bi-national state AND being Jewish. But I'll let your slur pass.

As for the article in question if you take

"An elite group of unelected Jewish neoconservatives and Zionists admit that they, not the US government, are responsible for the American policy on Iraq."

as "heavily emphasising" "Das Juden then we'll have to agree to disagree - it also mentions ZIONISTS (not all of whom are Jewish, the point some of us try to make ie criticising ZIONISTS is not equal to criticising Jews)

[geek tragedy]

28. The article mentioned "Jews"

and talked about AMERICAN JEWS and you talked about Israel.


You heard "Jews" and thought "Israel."

And the sentence you just quoted did NOT appear in Haaretz. There's a reason: it's blatantly anti-semitic.

[David Zephyr]

24. Thanks Geek Tragedy!

:thumbsup:

[physioex]

10. I agree....

Yea the President and Vice President are "Christian", thanks for pointing that out. But let's start looking at the money. What is the role of AIPAC? How was Shrub treated when he visited the AIPAC dinner? When Sharon came to visit Shrub who was on the the leash?

"Don't worry about the americans we own them."

I don't understand why DU can't be a forum to discuss this topic in a dignified manner and such posts need to be locked needlessly...

[Seth Gecko]

5. isnt there a special forum

for brown nosing?

[David Zephyr]

9. Speaking Out Against Brown Shirt Bigotry is Brown Nosing?

Are you saying that you agree with the preposterous proposition that it was American Jews that "led the U.S. into the War in Iraq"?

If you consider my speaking out against that sort of shit-thought is "brown nosing", then so be it.

[leftofthedial]

11. let's not ignore the pro-Israeli agenda of Wolfowitz, Perle, etc.

nor the wink wink nudge nudge approach to Israel's illegal storm trooper approach to the Palestinians.

What I have trouble reconciling is how the bushgang have simultaneously promoted a pro-Saudi and pro-Israel agenda. Any thoughts on that?

[physioex]

13. Yea I agree,

Perhaps they managed to wedge themselves between those two factions to make a killing both human and monetary. Who cares about agendas when you are raking in millions, that's for the commoners... Probably the Saudi regime doesn't care either, they are also raking in billions.

Don't forget that nut Wolfowitz thinks that having a "free Iraq" can bring out a resolution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict....

I hope the Arab Americans can form their own lobby and begin to bring a balance in this countries public policy...

[CPops57]

12. It was a war for Israel. Syria and Iran are next....

Criticising Israel isn't "anti-Jew". I think the Jewish people and religion are very honorable.

But I do strongly believe that the Israeli government is criminal, just like our own government is. I believe that certain elements of Israelis did in fact force the United States hand to wage a proxy war for the benefit of Israel and have plans to take out other nations in the Middle East in the future.

It doesn't matter if Bush and the entire Congress is Christian. Their is an unusual Christian Conservative devotion to Israel that has to do with a wrong interpretation of the Bible that makes them think they have to do everything for Israel. Go to freerepublic and look at the way the "conservatives" over there talk about Israel.


<>

[David Zephyr]

15. The Article and Thread Clearly Blamed American Jews.

Perhaps you missed the point or didn't read the "article" and "thread" of reference, but I am not referring to criticism of the policies of the current government of Israel, but rather the blame of the War on Iraq on American Jews. I hope you don't agree with this? Do you?

[geek tragedy]

16. It does show that some of those who claim that Zionism isn't Judaism

don't believe their own words. They hear "Jews" and think "Zionists" and "Israel."

[David Zephyr]

19. And...

here is the crap right out of the "article" of question:

"The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history."

[geek tragedy]

23. The Haaretz article was ok, if inaccurate

but this line:

<snip>
An elite group of unelected Jewish neoconservatives and Zionists admit that they, not the US government, are responsible for the American policy on Iraq.
<snip>

Was straight out of Protocols 101.

[Djinn]

22. and apparently

you read Jews and ZIONISTS in the same article as meaning Jews and some more Jews. There aer plenty of Christian and even secular Zionists but don't let THAT get in your way

[geek tragedy]

31. The reference to "Zionists" was written by the anti-semitic whack jobs

at theinsider.org. Those kind of people say "Zionist" when they mean "Jew" or "Illuminati."

[CPops57]

18. I don't blame Jews....

...but I do happen to blame our involvement in the war on some people who just happen to be Jewish.

Is that allowed?

(I'll go back and look at the thread in question. I didn't see it yet.)

[David Zephyr]

20. So You Don't Blame Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rice, etc.?

You prefer to "blame our involvement in the war on some people who just happen to be Jewish"?

You really can't believe this?

[Hoping4Change]

30. Adbusters decided to tackle the issue head on ......

"The point is simply that the neocons seem to have a special affinity for Israel that influences their political thinking and consequently American foreign policy in the Middle East."

<snip>

"A lot of ink has been spilled chronicling the pro-Israel leanings of American neocons and fact that a the disproportionate percentage of them are Jewish. Some commentators are worried that these individuals – labeled ‘Likudniks’ for their links to Israel’s right wing Likud party – do not distinguish enough between American and Israeli interests. For example, whose interests were they protecting in pushing for war in Iraq?

Drawing attention to the Jewishness of the neocons is a tricky game. Anyone who does so can count on automatically being smeared as an anti-Semite. But the point is not that Jews (who make up less than 2 percent of the American population) have a monolithic perspective. Indeed, American Jews overwhelmingly vote Democrat and many of them disagree strongly with Ariel Sharon’s policies and Bush’s aggression in Iraq. The point is simply that the neocons seem to have a special affinity for Israel that influences their political thinking and consequently American foreign policy in the Middle East.

Here at Adbusters, we decided to tackle the issue head on and came up with a carefully researched list of who appear to be the 50 most influential neocons in the US (see above). Deciding exactly who is a neocon is difficult since some neocons reject the term while others embrace it. Some shape policy from within the White House, while others are more peripheral, exacting influence indirectly as journalists, academics and think tank policy wonks. What they all share is the view that the US is a benevolent hyper power that must protect itself by reshaping the rest of the world into its morally superior image. And half of the them are Jewish."

http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/52/articles/jewish.html

[TeeYiYi]

29. The article doesn't blame Jews . . .

. . . it suggests that the war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservatives who just happen to be mostly Jewish. It's an interesting article to ponder if you know anything about PNAC, considering that it was written a year ago by a man who is himself Jewish and from Israel. You can read the whole article at http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=280279

Here is a portion of it:

White man's burden

By Ari Shavit

The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history. Two of them, journalists William Kristol and Charles Krauthammer, say it's possible. But another journalist, Thomas Friedman (not part of the group), is skeptical

1. The doctrine

WASHINGTON - At the conclusion of its second week, the war to liberate Iraq wasn't looking good. Not even in Washington. The assumption of a swift collapse of the Saddam Hussein regime had itself collapsed. The presupposition that the Iraqi dictatorship would crumble as soon as mighty America entered the country proved unfounded. The Shi'ites didn't rise up, the Sunnis fought fiercely. Iraqi guerrilla warfare found the American generals unprepared and endangered their overextended supply lines. Nevertheless, 70 percent of the American people continued to support the war; 60 percent thought victory was certain; 74 percent expressed confidence in President George W. Bush.

Washington is a small city. It's a place of human dimensions. A kind of small town that happens to run an empire. A small town of government officials and members of Congress and personnel of research institutes and journalists who pretty well all know one another. Everyone is busy intriguing against everyone else; and everyone gossips about everyone else.

In the course of the past year, a new belief has emerged in the town: the belief in war against Iraq. That ardent faith was disseminated by a small group of 25 or 30 neoconservatives, almost all of them Jewish, almost all of them intellectuals (a partial list: Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, William Kristol, Eliot Abrams, Charles Krauthammer), people who are mutual friends and cultivate one another and are convinced that political ideas are a major driving force of history. They believe that the right political idea entails a fusion of morality and force, human rights and grit. The philosophical underpinnings of the Washington neoconservatives are the writings of Machiavelli, Hobbes and Edmund Burke. They also admire Winston Churchill and the policy pursued by Ronald Reagan. They tend to read reality in terms of the failure of the 1930s (Munich) versus the success of the 1980s (the fall of the Berlin Wall).

Are they wrong? Have they committed an act of folly in leading Washington to Baghdad? They don't think so. They continue to cling to their belief. They are still pretending that everything is more or less fine. That things will work out. Occasionally, though, they seem to break out in a cold sweat. This is no longer an academic exercise, one of them says, we are responsible for what is happening. The ideas we put forward are now affecting the lives of millions of people. So there are moments when you're scared. You say, Hell, we came to help, but maybe we made a mistake.

TYY

[geek tragedy]

34. The Looney Toons website you linked to sure did

by stating that a shadowy cabal of Jews and Zionists control the US government.

[Democat]

25. Maybe the thread was locked for a reason

You seem to have re-opened it with this thread. :)

[David Zephyr]

27. Yeah, But I Never Thought I'd See Responses Here Like These.

This is sad.

[Democat]

33. I don't disagree with you, but this subject gets out of control on DU

I didn't see the thread, but I'm guessing it involved the I/P war as well as the subject you mention? I think it's hard for the mods to figure out what to do with the I/P issue. Half of the threads turn into flame wars.

The DU discussion on these topics often doesn't seem very productive.

[Malva Zebrina]

26. I do not understand what thread was deleted

It most certainly is Bush's war and it most certainly was a slaughter based on the lies of a stupid and evil man called George Bush. He is absolutely without a doubt a very stupid man without much intelligence at all.

He forced his way into our govenment with his and his daddy's connections. It was a coup, even though many do not want to admit to that.

Having said that, I wouldlike to say that I have receive many e-mails from long time Jewish friends that supported the slaughter in Iraq.

They were not Israeli citizens.

They were
American citizens and they not only supported it, the slaughter of innocents, in spite of it's immorality, but they encouraged it.

And they supported the killing of thousands and they like other Bush supporters, supported the invasion of Iraq in order to shore up security in the region for Israel.

We do not communicate any longer.

[David Zephyr]

32. Every Scientific Poll Just Before Bush's War

indicated a great majority of the American people supported the War. Those of us who opposed the war were a tiny, tiny fraction within the American population.

The fact that some Jewish Americans (3% of the entire U.S. population) felt the same way as the great majority of non-Jewish Americans (97%) in supporting the war should not surprise you.

[Moderator]

35. Locking.......

This is a continuation of a thread which
was locked earlier. If you wish to thank
the moderators, please do so in the
Ask the Administrators forum.


Thank you.

DU Moderator